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a must read on Forbes.com


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Link's on the left side of the page.

 

Read the article. Perhaps someone should inform Flint that the Town Car's customers may well be dying along with it. Steady declines in volume continued throughout the 90s as younger buyers went with similarly priced Lexus LS sedans (that were SMALLER, tighter, more refined, and more reliable). Those buyers are now solidly in Lexus (and MB) territory. Ford can't get them back with a more youthful Town Car, and comparing the 300 with the Town Car is pointless, as the Town Car--incentives and all--still has a transaction price far ahead of the typical 300. They have different customers.

 

I am curious about the flagship Lincoln. I'm pretty sure it won't be the MKS.... It'll be interesting to see what it is.

 

BTW, those unibody Escapes seem to be holding up alright in NYC and San Fran. Course they probably get better treatment.

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I've mentioned this before: the Lincoln brand was not being enhanced by the livery usage.

 

For example, how would a Lexus 470 or BMW 740 whatever sedan owner feel about seeing his vehicle turned into a stretch limo available to any bunch of drunken idiots?

 

Mercury GM's will take over the pig-boats and the air-port runs, and if not, let Chrysler 300's serve in this distinguished fashion.

 

It will make the next Lincoln large sedan properly exclusive. That's the only way that the Lincoln brand will ever regain the lustre it had prior to the advent of the mass limousine industry. Back in the 50's and early 60's, limo's were rather rare and therefore special. Today, that is not the case. Time to move on.

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Get rid of the Town Car, we need a Uni-body RWD car.

 

btw, is there any news about the S-Type's new platform? we need some Global Engeering on that platform and use it as a Lincoln *no don't pull an LS*

There will be no global engineering on the next SType. Jaguar is becoming a very exclusive brand again.

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The fact that Ford allowed sales of the Town Car to decline like it has is an indication of how poorly in fact this company is run. The car was literally a gold mine for Ford, and they did a terrible job of keeping that market. Gee, considering an 06 is little changed since 98, and mechanically similar to a 91 should tell you Ford badly mismanaged a market that they owned.

 

I am much younger than the typical Town Car buyer, and I love big American sedans. Unfortunately, the Town Car is the closest car left that is like one, but once it goes, there is nothing available to buy. There is no way I'd buy a Zephyr/MKS, which is just a poor Mexican made copy of a Lexus. Ford and GM builds poor imitations of American sedans - they are mostly just ovoid, bland copies of Japanese sedans.

 

I saw a late 80's Grand Marquis yesterday that looked brand new - I've decided that I'm going to have to go back in time to get what I want - even the Grand Marquis has been decontented and ignored to the point that other than the engine, I prefer a late 80's Grand Marquis to a new one in just about every other way.

 

Ford in fact does hate their core customers - they doing everything they can to drive them away for a fantasy world where women, homosexuals, and young people will save them. The fact those that support current management belittles the elderly, livery owners, and people who live out in small towns tells you all you need to know about the way management feels as well.

 

The Panther is still the best vehicle Ford builds - that and the Mustang are the only Fords I'd own on the automobile side, and the F-150 is too big now, so I'd probably consider only the Ranger now.

 

My Father bought Fords for 52 years - his last car before he quit driving was a Honda. I've owned a few Fords in my life - but nothing they sell is really American anymore, so why buy a copy when I can buy an original?

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"Ford in fact does hate their core customers - they doing everything they can to drive them away for a fantasy world where women, homosexuals, and young people will save the... "

 

?Are you for real? As if no female or queer has bought a Ford? Where were all the 'real' men when Town Cars needed sales? I will be happy if the TC dies, only because it will break the hearts of some bigots. [They can join a militia and try to save the TC]

 

Also, other car companies are kicking ass, because they don't cater just to inbred men who think they are the shit and spit on anyone else "not like me". Guess what, the world is changing!

Edited by 630land
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Also, other car companies are kicking ass, because they don't cater just to inbred men who think they are the shit and spit on anyone else "not like me". Guess what, the world is changing!

 

 

Exactly! The avg age of a Town Car owner just got older and older...and it fell out of favor of younger people who prefer imports over a floaty couch on wheels as their preferred interpretation of what a Luxury car should be.

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Crown Vic, Grand Marquis and Town Car are I believe the best American image car for an American automaker, even if they aren't the huge sellers they used to be. Ford needs flagships for their respective brands and Five-Hundred, Montego and the Mk Lincoln can not fill that position.

 

It is my sincere belief that most who encourage the Panthers' demise probably hasn't even sat in one, let alone rode or drove one in many years. Ford has made ongoing improvements on the car of the years, but Ford doesn't market the cars and the buying public harshly stereotype the cars. Look to the past few years. They added PI cylinder heads, new frame, rack and pinion steering, revised front suspension, throttle by wire, new seats, power adjustable pedals, traction control, etc. Popular options like the performance suspension, moonroof, quality audio system, CD changers, dual power seats, etc. are further evidence that Ford has made these cars to be more in line with the times. The Town Car is in worse shape than Crown Vic and Grand Marquis, simply because Lincoln IMO is doing poorly against its competition. The big Lincoln lags behind in its class because not enough has been done to it to set it apart from its often dealership sibling, the Grand Marquis. On paper, the CV/GM is actually more in line with its competition, but the harsh criticism and stereotyping along with lack of marketing the modern improvements of the cars have hurt them.

 

Lincoln Town Car should be revised more often externally, have a powertrain and drivetrain that is comparable to the competition and revise the dash layout. Its too late for all this, but its clear to me that Ford has rode Lincoln into the ground over the years through neglect and mediocrity. The Continental is gone, the LS is gone, the Town Car is nearly gone and the only thing for certain right now is a Mazda6 based sedan.

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Exactly! The avg age of a Town Car owner just got older and older...and it fell out of favor of younger people who prefer imports over a floaty couch on wheels as their preferred interpretation of what a Luxury car should be.

 

Well, to be fair, buyers of large luxury sedans tend to be older. The average age of an S-Class driver is 62, compared to the Town Car's 70. Town Car buyers never were young, and never will be young. Lincoln has built cars for young people. The Lincoln Versailles, Mark VII, Mark VIII, and Lincoln LS were all directly targeted at young, import-preferring buyers. The Versailles was a total failure, but the Marks were very successful up until the total collapse of the luxury coupe market as the sports sedan market took off in the mid 1990's. The Lincoln LS was very successful, but proved too expensive for Ford's tastes to stay relevant in its very hot segment. In spite of being somewhat soft compared to the hard-edged Lincoln LS, the Zephyr has an average buyer age of 56.

 

Lincoln, Cadillac, Mercedes, and Lexus have always been brands geared for middle-aged to older people (since those people actually have money to spend on luxury cars), but there's a difference between being an older person's brand, and an old stodgy brand.

 

As I mentioned in another thread, the Town Car itself has become a bastion of older buyers perfectly content with their car (an ever-shrinking group), as well as livery and limo companies. Cadillac has the same situation with the DTS, but is looking to change that with the next-generation RWD DTS to appear around 2010. The Town Car is perfectly fine selling to commercial buyers, but it NEEDS new retail buyers to stay relevant. Only 40% of Town Car sales are to fleets, and if their customer base dies off, it's done anyway. If Lincoln remade the Town Car in the image of the 2002 Continental Concept with a new engine, tranny, and interior, it would keep selling to the commercial buyers, and immediately create buzz by becoming the rapper's new darling vehicle. Like the 300, once buzz is created, people will come to it.

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"it would keep selling to the commercial buyers,"

 

You don't get it — somebody who shelled out 40-50K for a Lincoln doesn't need to see an airport limo with its propane-power ID badge on the trunk, municipal taxi-limo licence ID and a taxi light on the roof, which operators in Toronto are starting to do. Just wait, it'll be coming to where you live. Taxi lights really make you proud you own one.

 

Again, this is a much better fate for the DC 300.

 

If Lincoln builds a big new sedan, and the Prez wants a limo version, fine, but cornering the pig-boat/hooker-hauler market does not glamorize the car, unless you happen to believe that an appeal to Kraft Dinner Culture is a part of the Lincoln brand.

 

It's a Lincoln — the President of the US gets as many stretches as he wants, if he wants one, and NOBODY ELSE, except perhaps the Ford family/company.

 

It's time to make Lincolns special, again, got it? :banghead:

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"it would keep selling to the commercial buyers,"

 

You don't get it — somebody who shelled out 40-50K for a Lincoln doesn't need to see an airport limo with its propane-power ID badge on the trunk, municipal taxi-limo licence ID and a taxi light on the roof, which operators in Toronto are starting to do. Just wait, it'll be coming to where you live. Taxi lights really make you proud you own one.

 

Again, this is a much better fate for the DC 300.

 

If Lincoln builds a big new sedan, and the Prez wants a limo version, fine, but cornering the pig-boat/hooker-hauler market does not glamorize the car, unless you happen to believe that an appeal to Kraft Dinner Culture is a part of the Lincoln brand.

 

It's a Lincoln — the President of the US gets as many stretches as he wants, if he wants one, and NOBODY ELSE, except perhaps the Ford family/company.

 

It's time to make Lincolns special, again, got it? :banghead:

Why can't they have the big boat Lincoln and a more BMW style.

 

Go to Germany and the taxis are big Mercedes and BMWs'.

 

Lincoln can only dream of being in that league.

 

The Zephyr. :hysterical:

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"Go to Germany and the taxis are big Mercedes and BMWs'.

 

Lincoln can only dream of being in that league."

 

Lincoln is a North American brand, so it's a different league, where livery is cheesier and tackier. Lincoln does not need to be part of it.

 

As to the Zephyr, you're entitled to your opinion, but for value, it's OK up against the lower end of the Kraut sleds, and it sure looks better than the BMW 5 series and the C and E-class MB's. The 5 series is a ghastly joke, the MB's are merely awkward lumps with cheezy door tech — flush fit window glass is for S-class.

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