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Ford November 2011 Sales up 13%, Retail up 20%


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It's been pushed so much, my 15yr old daughter who knows I'm a Ford guy, has asked me about the new Focus she's been seeing all over TV and how it parks itself.

 

Weird, I've never seen those commercials (I'd remember the self parking). Are those regional or national ads? I mostly watch cable TV shows (FX / AMC / Bravo) so it's possible they don't sell much time on those networks. However, I do see a ton of Lincoln ads.

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This is the interesting view on this site. People were saying prior to the 2011 release, that the 2010 Mustang (with incentives) wasn't selling well because people were waiting for the 2011 powertrains. Now people are saying the 2011 Escape is selling well because of incentives and people aren't waiting for the 2012. I know these are different vehicle categories and different customer bases. But always interesting to see people flip-flop their reasoning on why something may be or not be selling well.

 

And no, this wasn't directed at you 2005Explorer.

 

Keep in mind, different vehicles have different following. Many Mustang buyers are hard-core Mustang fans, and participant in forums, want the latest tech, highest HP, etc. They were well aware that the new powertrains were coming.

 

Most Escape buyers don't care about that stuff, and most-likely have no clue a new Escape is coming next year.

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I hate to see 11K of Focus selling. But in terms of economics, the demond curve is a down-slope curve for Focus. So if you want to charge at high price, you have to reduce the quantity. This kind of manupilation of quantity and price can help Ford get maximized profit. Well, economics theory sometime is really not that make sense, but every firm use that down-slope curve to maximize the profit. Ford is just one of them. Based on that, I am happy, because what Ford is doing is to maximize the long turn value of the company.

 

Although Ford may want now to think of itself as a "luxury car" builder by moving upmarket and charging higher prices it is still being compared to mainstream brands because at the end of the day Ford is still a mainstream brand. At some point volume does matter when it comes to vehicle lines like the Focus.

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Your quite possibly correct, however I doubt a higher price with no incentives is going to help the new one sell at even higher levels. If sales of the Escape drop down to Focus levels don't say I didn't say so. If it sells like hot cakes I will be the first to admit I was wrong.

 

I see the Explorer is selling very well breaking 12,000 for the month! The Flex is barely breaking 2,000 these days and in a month or two it is possible the MKT will be down in the 200's!!! Is it really worth building those vehicles at that rate? Seriously build more Explorers and come out with an Aviator and bury those slow sellers!

It's quite possible the new Escape will sell "only" 15,000 a month, until US economy truely recovers, you know the handle part of the hocky stick.

IMHO, the current economy condition is hindering Ford new strategy, and the new Focus is the prime victim. Its quality issue only made the situation worse.

 

Here's hoping next year we start solid recovery and the new Escape and Fusion will be more successful.

 

And you know my view on MKT, WE SO DID say so!

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Weird, I've never seen those commercials (I'd remember the self parking). Are those regional or national ads? I mostly watch cable TV shows (FX / AMC / Bravo) so it's possible they don't sell much time on those networks. However, I do see a ton of Lincoln ads.

Well, the kids love to watch the Disney channel, but otherwise I see it on our local channels (Fox 13/31, CBS 4, ABC 7 & NBC 9) during the news. Not sure if it's national or regional, but I do believe Mike Rowe is in them. I'll try to find out tonight, as I'm sure I'll see it again.

 

Keep in mind, different vehicles have different following. Many Mustang buyers are hard-core Mustang fans, and participant in forums, want the latest tech, highest HP, etc. They were well aware that the new powertrains were coming.

 

Most Escape buyers don't care about that stuff, and most-likely have no clue a new Escape is coming next year.

True, and that's why I stated these are directed at two different populations.

 

And glad to see you generalize Escape and Mustang owners. But I've seen and know plenty that are all over the board. Some Escape owners who've wanted the latest/greatest features and updates, and some that want Stangs for no other reason than style, without a 2nd thought about the powertrains.

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Well, the kids love to watch the Disney channel, but otherwise I see it on our local channels (Fox 13/31, CBS 4, ABC 7 & NBC 9) during the news. Not sure if it's national or regional, but I do believe Mike Rowe is in them. I'll try to find out tonight, as I'm sure I'll see it again.

 

 

True, and that's why I stated these are directed at two different populations.

 

And glad to see you generalize Escape and Mustang owners. But I've seen and know plenty that are all over the board. Some Escape owners who've wanted the latest/greatest features and updates, and some that want Stangs for no other reason than style, without a 2nd thought about the powertrains.

 

Yes, I did generalize. And I see your anecdotal evidence and raise you: I was an Escape owner, have never owned a Mustang, and I know more about upcoming Ford models than all of my family and close friends put together!

 

But I would be willing to wager a nice steak dinner on more (by percentage) Mustang buyers being "gear-heads" than Escape buyers.

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You can talk about much higher ATP's all day long, but if volume falls enough less money will be made and that is a fact.

 

But you're also missing the point that while overall revenue might be less due to lower volumes, costs can also be reduced. As an extreme example - the plant may be able to shut down an entire shift or Ford may shut down an entire plant or shed other fixed costs.

 

There is an optimum selling point where profit is maximized and it's usually not at the highest volume.

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Well let's hope the same thing doesn't happen when the new Escape shows up. I know a lot of you think I am crazy to think that the new Escape might not be as successful as the current one, but Ford is applying the same formula to the Escape that they have applied to the Focus and the results have been mixed.

 

You can talk about much higher ATP's all day long, but if volume falls enough less money will be made and that is a fact.

 

You would think Escape would be down if everyone was waiting on the new one, but it seems that the introduction of the new one hasn't hurt the current ones sales at all. It had another impressive month.

 

The difference between the Focus and Escape though are the vehicles that sit above them in the lineup. Currently the Focus has an aging Fusion above it that doesn't offer many of the features than the Focus does, so pricing is quite a bit better on Fusions for the price-conscious shopper.

 

Above the Escape you have a relatively up-to-date Edge and a brand-new Explorer, both of which are still commanding pretty premium pricing with limited discounts.

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Do keep in mind that even though you can get a loaded to the gills Focus for $28K....the pricing on the lesser models isn't all that more then last years models and I'll go out on a limb that the 2011 Foci prob had some favorable lease and incentives on them, where as the current Focus only offers $500 or so and no lease deals as far as I know.

 

The Fiesta was a slow seller at first, and now (IIRC) its the best selling or the second best selling B-car in North America....I'm willing to guess that the Focus needs some adjusting to find the sweet spot that buyers want.

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Cruze @ 13k, Focus @ 11k, I don't see a problem here.

I do....for GM

 

GM was pushing Cruse for all it was worth a couple of months ago with lots of production and two shifts

I get the feeling they were expecting to keep selling 20K/mth so no doubt the inventory is starting to pile up.

 

As of November 30, GM has 623,666 combined units in inventory giving it an average supply of 86 days for all vehicles

Trucks are much worse, with inventory at 202,72 and roughly 105 days supply.....

 

LOL, for all their bravado, GM sold 180.402 vehicles in November to Ford's 166,865

and with less than 14,000 vehicles difference, Ford must be pleased with that...

 

LINK

Edited by jpd80
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Is it too soon to start thinking that Ford screwed the pooch with the new Focus? :nonono:

 

That may be a bit far, but something is going on. I'm sure the fanboys will have yet another excuse as to why November's numbers are not an accurate representation of Focus sales (ie: inventory levels, etc).

 

 

 

And Ford's marketing on the Focus has been particularly awful.

 

Aside from the F-150, ALL of Ford's (the brand) marketing is awful. The ad I remember of the Focus is the one where there is a very quick outside shot, the "owner" ius rushed into this little room where she talks about how she wishes she could drink and drive. It's either that or numerous shots of Mike Rowe and interior shots of a customer pushing a button or two.

 

It astonishes me that Ford can release ads that make me want to go out right after viewing and buy an F-150 while at the same time releasing ads that are bitter cold (everything other than the F-150). The F-150 ads are spectacular...some of the best ads out there I think.

 

 

Current Escape's impressive end-of-life run is built on price, not on looks.

 

In reality, we have no idea how looks factor into customer's purchase of the Escape. But I must say, as a person who doesn't find much appealing with the Kinetic design language, it is refreshing to see the boxy Escape and Explorer with N.A.design language doing so well. :happy feet:

 

This is the interesting view on this site. People were saying prior to the 2011 release, that the 2010 Mustang (with incentives) wasn't selling well because people were waiting for the 2011 powertrains. Now people are saying the 2011 Escape is selling well because of incentives and people aren't waiting for the 2012. I know these are different vehicle categories and different customer bases. But always interesting to see people flip-flop their reasoning on why something may be or not be selling well.

 

Fanboy hypocrisy at it's best.

 

 

Cruze @ 13k, Focus @ 11k, I don't see a problem here.

 

Yeah...for the month. For the year is a different story (over 215K Cruze models to less than 162K Focus).

 

Not to mention, this is a very telling statement from Ford. Mainly in what vehicle was omitted:

 

Ford brand retail sales were higher for most products, with double-digit gains posted by Fiesta, Fusion, Escape, Explorer, F-Series, Econoline and Ranger.

 

------------

 

All in all though, it was a solid month. Explorer sales for the month, I think, are extremely good (and it has N.A. design language...I'm not sayin...I'm just sayin.). A few hiccups here and there, but nothing major. I still shake my head at the Flex and MKT and wonder why they even bothered with the refreshes. Hopefully Ford knows something we don't.

Edited by Boss444
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Not to mention, this is a very telling statement from Ford. Mainly in what vehicle was omitted:

 

Not really sure what's so "telling" about that. It only states what the numbers themselves already show: Focus sales weren't up. The Mustang, Taurus, and Edge weren't mentioned either. :shrug:

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I still shake my head at the Flex and MKT and wonder why they even bothered with the refreshes. Hopefully Ford knows something we don't.

 

From what I understand, a minor refresh is programmed into platform costs after 3 years then a major refresh after 5 years....just look at the cadence of Ford releases since 2005-06 and you'll see it.

 

The Flex and MKT have very minimal (and low cost) changes...not to mention platform sharing with the Taurus and Explorer to help offset costs.

 

I'd give them another 3-5 years max on the market...but if you kill them off...you have to figure out what they are going to replace it with in Oakville since half of that plant is building the Edge and the Flex/MKT...

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Cruze @ 13k, Focus @ 11k, I don't see a problem here.

 

I have a big problem with it Richard, the the technically brilliant Focus (But the shape has been constantly marked as a big let down here) is in a different league to the piss poor Crap Cruze they are like chalk and cheese. I might be a bit thick but l do read auto reviews here the Focus always gets rave top reviews, the Cruze is rated a well below average car in the UK by the motoring press. It's also reflected in sales Focus sold 5,200 here compared to 150 Cruze sales last month. Maybe it's the cheap n' nasty "Made in Korea' that puts us off buying the Cruze?.

 

 

What are Ford doing wrong Stateside Richard why are you buying more shitty piss poor Cruze's over the Focus, or is love blind when your Cruze is "Made in the USA"?

Edited by Ford Jellymoulds
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Not really sure what's so "telling" about that. It only states what the numbers themselves already show: Focus sales weren't up. The Mustang, Taurus, and Edge weren't mentioned either. :shrug:

 

Well, I think it's telling because the Focus was a major vehicle for Ford. The first vehicle (I believe) to be produced under Mulally's One Ford plan. Maybe I'm reading too much into it (I tend to do that), but I think it says a lot about Focus sales. I would venture a guess that Ford had expected better sales.

 

 

From what I understand, a minor refresh is programmed into platform costs after 3 years then a major refresh after 5 years....just look at the cadence of Ford releases since 2005-06 and you'll see it.

 

The Flex and MKT have very minimal (and low cost) changes...not to mention platform sharing with the Taurus and Explorer to help offset costs.

 

I'd give them another 3-5 years max on the market...but if you kill them off...you have to figure out what they are going to replace it with in Oakville since half of that plant is building the Edge and the Flex/MKT...

 

That makes sense. The refreshes couldn't have cost all that much as it seems a lot of it was software. I'm guessing the cost was so minimal that Ford said, "what the hell...if they flop again, we're not losing much".

 

However, I think the costs to produce the Flex, MKT, and Explorer are higher than people think. Sure they share a lot, but they are two completely different vehicles (obviously I'm combining the Flex/MKT).

 

Yes, there are substantial cost savings, but I don't think they are as high as many would believe. Too bad we will never know though. Would be awesome to study the cost breakdown of the Taurus/MKS, Flex/MKT, and Explorer programs. But obviously Ford can't do that...

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Well, I think it's telling because the Focus was a major vehicle for Ford. The first vehicle (I believe) to be produced under Mulally's One Ford plan. Maybe I'm reading too much into it (I tend to do that), but I think it says a lot about Focus sales. I would venture a guess that Ford had expected better sales.

 

The Mustang, Taurus, and Edge aren't major vehicles for Ford? It's not like I said MKT, Transit Connect, or Ranger. ;)

 

The Focus certainly is not performing to where it should be. It is worrisome. Then again, in comparison to the Cruze, it does indicate that November is generally just a pretty soft month for sales in general. I still expect better though.

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I could not help but notice that the lowly Ranger outsold the entire Lincoln division. Now that is sad.

 

I see three problems that may be costing for sales. The Chinese made Mt82 in the Mustang has turned out to be a mess. The powershifts in the Fiesta and Focus are not catching on and have issues. And last, my ford touch has been screwed up from day one.

 

Trucks and Cuv's are on a roll along with the Fusion.

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I could not help but notice that the lowly Ranger outsold the entire Lincoln division. Now that is sad.

 

I see three problems that may be costing for sales. The Chinese made Mt82 in the Mustang has turned out to be a mess. The powershifts in the Fiesta and Focus are not catching on and have issues. And last, my ford touch has been screwed up from day one.

 

Trucks and Cuv's are on a roll along with the Fusion.

 

1. The MT82 issues are largely overblown. Actually warranty claims data on them are not that significant.

2. The Fiesta is still selling moderately well for its class, Powershift or not.

3. Focus, meh, who knows, but the Powershift isn't killing the Fiesta, so I doubt it's alone what is killing the Focus.

4. MFT issues exist, but like the MT82 problems, they are largely blown out of proportion. If MFT was such a sales killer, Edge and Explorer sales would suck too.

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I see three problems that may be costing for sales. The Chinese made Mt82 in the Mustang has turned out to be a mess. The powershifts in the Fiesta and Focus are not catching on and have issues. And last, my ford touch has been screwed up from day one.

 

 

Um the MT82 "issues" have been addressed....AFAIK the NTSA hasn't required Ford to do any recalls etc...

 

Powershift issue....was a grounding issue with the Fiesta (was launched last year and haven't heard much about it since then)...the Focus is a different ball of wax, though it seems from reports I've been reading that the new firmware addressed most of the issues (except maybe one poster here)

 

MFT is in the same boat and the major update in a couple months should take care of the lingering issues with that.

 

I'd like to see the rest of compact sales this month from other makers before we decide that the Focus is truly a flop or this is just a slow month for compact sales industry wide.

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1. The MT82 issues are largely overblown. Actually warranty claims data on them are not that significant.

2. The Fiesta is still selling moderately well for its class, Powershift or not.

3. Focus, meh, who knows, but the Powershift isn't killing the Fiesta, so I doubt it's alone what is killing the Focus.

4. MFT issues exist, but like the MT82 problems, they are largely blown out of proportion. If MFT was such a sales killer, Edge and Explorer sales would suck too.

 

LOL get off my wave length...

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As mentioned one problem with the Focus is the relatively low gas prices. Another "as mentioned" is the Fusion overlap. But it isn't just price, the reputation of the Fusion is excellent (even CR likes it) and Ford's advertising that it has better projected resale than Camry. It should also be noted that Fusion doesn't have the Dual Clutch Auto OR MyFORD Touch........two bugs of the Focus that are being sorted out. People are wary of first year intros with different technology. By next qtr. it will be smoothed out.

 

Malibu 10K/Cruze 13K =23K

 

Fusion 19K/Focus 11K =30K

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