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Ford November 2011 Sales up 13%, Retail up 20%


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Wow! Do you have a link for that? Sounds like a very interesting article. Thanks!

 

I think the dollar amount is a bit misleading....think about it...don't offer $1500 cash back or 0% financing and charge about 1 to 1.5K more of the car...and you get close to that $5K amount.

 

AFAIK...the 2008-2011 Focus was breaking even vs the older generation Foci.

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You have to be kidding me! I guess the 13+ RECALLS that the Focus had when it came out 11 years ago should have killed it off?

 

Or how about rear wheels falling off the Escape around the same time frame? I see thats really impacting its sales now :rolleyes:

 

I also have to wonder how many people looking for new cars have even heard about any of the Focus's "problems". There have been no recalls that I know of. Those usually seem to get the biggest press. Unless they are digging deep into forums, they just aren't going to hear about most of this stuff that has cropped up so far.

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Here is a reminder of what the first gen Focus went through with problems:

 

http://www.autosafety.org/fords-trouble-prone-focus-hit-safety-recalls-service-campaigns-investigations

 

The 2012 Focus launch and issues have been FAR better in relation...just that whatever possible information that has gone out gets repeated ad infinitum by the multiple of Auto related blogs and websites that didn't exist (in the same number) as they did back in 2000 or so.

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Ford sold 13,030 Focus November 2010 - each one at a loss

Ford sold 11,735 Focus November 2011 - each one - presumably at a profit.

 

I would say they are far better shape this year than last.

 

Remember, one of the big problems reported with the previous Focus (and what drove Mulally nuts) was that it was sold at a loss.

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from your neighbourhood - Todd Willing.

The 427 concept car was done by a Brit.

 

The issue isn't where the designers were born or educated, it's what Kuzak et al. do when there are conflicting priorities.

 

Regarding design, it's fortunate for Ford that their European designers are doing quality work for a change. Ford's NA designers have consistently, over the past 50 years, done better work than FoE. During the time period that FNA led three separate revolutions in automotive design, FoE did nothing remarkable and was in fact better known for producing reliable as opposed to stylish vehicles.

 

Presumably, either closer connections to Ford's NA designers or supervisors with better expectations are doing the trick. Either way, it's good for Ford.

Edited by RichardJensen
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Of all the supposed complaining about MFT and its possible negative effect on Focus sales, it sure isn't damaging Edge or Explorer sales, so.... :headscratch:

 

We just bought a new Focus to replace the one my daughter totalled last week. We were just browsing the local dealer lot on Friday night to see what was available, colors, etc. My salesman pointed us to a grey SEL w/black interior and MFT. He said an older couple bought it and could not figure out the MFT touchscreen and brought it back. Only had 120 miles. They took it as a trade-in and got them into something else without MFT. I noticed the owner's manual had never been opened. You just can't teach an old dog new tricks.

 

We ended up buying it for a few hundred less than a new one, but more importantly it was the only one in the Atlanta area with that color combination and equipment. There are only a few SEL and Titanium models at each dealer. A few more SEs, but the inventory is not that big. Some dealers have NO SELs or Titaniums in stock.

 

I set up MFT including wallpaper, etc. and have had NO problems with response time, etc. The only problem was that it locked up Sunday morning after my daughter tried pairing her phone Saturday night. Pulled the fuse and it's been fine ever since. Once you play with it a bit and figure out where everything is it's really easy.

 

I found a program called iTunes export and put her entire itunes library on a usb stick with playlists. Worked great. So far so good - we actually like the grey/black better than the silver/med. stone on the old one. And thanks to GAP insurance I walked away from the old one with $0 out of pocket and a slightly lower payment on the new one.

 

As for the transmission - I've driven it three times and ridden in it twice. Not once have I felt the least little shudder or stumble. It's perfect so far. The old one would shudder when coming to a stop but not this one. I assume it's the new software.

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Ford sold 13,030 Focus November 2010 - each one at a loss

Ford sold 11,735 Focus November 2011 - each one - presumably at a profit.

 

I would say they are far better shape this year than last.

 

Remember, one of the big problems reported with the previous Focus (and what drove Mulally nuts) was that it was sold at a loss.

 

I thought the 2008+ Focus was designed to actually make a small profit by adding more features. It seems like the 2007 and earlier Focus were the big losers in the money game. There are probably certain models of the new Focus that are still sold at a loss, but enough well equipped models that help pull the entire line up to a net profit. I have no idea though. Talking about profit and loss per vehicle line is pointless because no one really knows except for the big shots running things.

Edited by 2005Explorer
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Are we still prattling on about the price of the Focus as an excuse? lol I just speced out a Honda Civic at $28,532 and that wasn't even an Si or speced with all the options available. An Elantra can easily reach the $23500 mark and again without all the options that you could just put on it. A Mazda 3 can reach $27,200 without all the options and that's not the Speed 3 version either. This notion that the Focus is somehow priced high for its segment is a denial of reality. It's priced about the same as much of the rest of the segment. In May and June the Focus was moving 19 to 20 thousand units a month. Now its moving 11. Word is out on the car. You guys can accept that or you can keep making excuses. lol Feel free to flame away. I'm out. Having too much fun driving my boring old Corolla which by the way is getting better mpg with its old school 4 speed tranny than the Focus did with the fancy 6 speed dual crap. lmao

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IMHO the Focus is in trouble. It still seems that Americans in general do not wish to pay a premium price for a small car. In addition by American standards the design IS NOT MAINSTREAM. I do not know how much the perceived transmission issues are affecting sales as well.

 

As evidence of the above, I would suggest looking at the initial success of both the Cruze and certainly the Volkswagen Jetta. Both are nothing special from an engineering standpoint or styling, but have had some success.

 

Certainly Ford has called the market right with the V6s in the trucks as well as the Fusion.

 

The Focus will not sell with out zero per-cent financing or other incentives.

Edited by CKNSLS
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IMHO the Focus is in trouble

Based on what? With seasonal adjustments, the Focus--sans serious incentives--is selling at about a 165k/year clip in the US alone. Given that Wayne is also supplying Canada & Mexico, and will be assembling the C-Max hybrid (~30k volume in US), you're looking at two shifts of output with next to no incentives and a significantly higher ATP.

 

Ford could easily juice Focus numbers by fleet dumping and incentives. They're not doing that. That meshes pretty well with their significantly higher per unit profit margin vs. GM.

 

"If everyone else is such an idiot, how come you're not rich"

Edited by RichardJensen
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IMHO the Focus is in trouble. It still seems that Americans in general do not wish to pay a premium price for a small car. In addition by American standards the design IS NOT MAINSTREAM. I do not know how much the perceived transmission issues are affecting sales as well.

 

As evidence of the above, I would suggest looking at the initial success of both the Cruze and certainly the Volkswagen Jetta. Both are nothing special from an engineering standpoint or styling, but have had some success.

 

Certainly Ford has called the market right with the V6s in the trucks as well as the Fusion.

 

The Focus will not sell with out zero per-cent financing or other incentives.

 

The Cruze can easily surpass the 27 thousand dollar mark in the LTZ model. Yep, obviously the Focus is way too expensive as compared to the rest of the small car segment. Note my sarcasm.

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Are we still prattling on about the price of the Focus as an excuse? lol I just speced out a Honda Civic at $28,532 and that wasn't even an Si or speced with all the options available. An Elantra can easily reach the $23500 mark and again without all the options that you could just put on it. A Mazda 3 can reach $27,200 without all the options and that's not the Speed 3 version either. This notion that the Focus is somehow priced high for its segment is a denial of reality. It's priced about the same as much of the rest of the segment. In May and June the Focus was moving 19 to 20 thousand units a month. Now its moving 11. Word is out on the car. You guys can accept that or you can keep making excuses. lol Feel free to flame away. I'm out. Having too much fun driving my boring old Corolla which by the way is getting better mpg with its old school 4 speed tranny than the Focus did with the fancy 6 speed dual crap. lmao

 

 

IMHO the Focus is in trouble. It still seems that Americans in general do not wish to pay a premium price for a small car. In addition by American standards the design IS NOT MAINSTREAM. I do not know how much the perceived transmission issues are affecting sales as well.

 

As evidence of the above, I would suggest looking at the initial success of both the Cruze and certainly the Volkswagen Jetta. Both are nothing special from an engineering standpoint or styling, but have had some success.

 

Certainly Ford has called the market right with the V6s in the trucks as well as the Fusion.

 

The Focus will not sell with out zero per-cent financing or other incentives.

 

The 11k figure troubled me, until I saw what everybody else did this month:

 

Honda Civic: 17,133

Toyota Corolla: 16,115

Chevrolet Cruze: 13,238

VW Jetta: 12,891

Hyundai Elantra: 12,414

Ford Focus: 11,735

 

And then account for incentives..

all set for my zip, 43004

 

Civicdeals.png

 

Corolladeals.png

 

Elantradeals.png

 

VWdeals.png

 

Cruzedeals.png

 

Focusdeal1.png

 

Focusdeal2.png

 

Note that the Focus and Cruze don't even show incentivized leasing as an option. Just the cash finance offer. Is it a wonder they're selling more Civics and Corollas? I'll take Ford, and surprisingly GM's, lack of heavy incentives and moderate sales.

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Are we still prattling on about the price of the Focus as an excuse? lol I just speced out a Honda Civic at $28,532 and that wasn't even an Si or speced with all the options available. An Elantra can easily reach the $23500 mark and again without all the options that you could just put on it. A Mazda 3 can reach $27,200 without all the options and that's not the Speed 3 version either. This notion that the Focus is somehow priced high for its segment is a denial of reality. It's priced about the same as much of the rest of the segment. In May and June the Focus was moving 19 to 20 thousand units a month. Now its moving 11. Word is out on the car. You guys can accept that or you can keep making excuses. lol Feel free to flame away. I'm out. Having too much fun driving my boring old Corolla which by the way is getting better mpg with its old school 4 speed tranny than the Focus did with the fancy 6 speed dual crap. lmao

in defense of the mileage....check out all the un-necessary ( IMO ) safety and emmissions garbage noticeably absent from the Corolla, its crazy whats on cars of late. And BINGO on the pricing....and again, thats a reflection of what is mandated....Fords right in the wheelhouse in comparison with its immediate competition.

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in defense of the mileage....check out all the un-necessary ( IMO ) safety and emmissions garbage noticeably absent from the Corolla,

 

Oh you mean like advanced front and side airbags, vehicle stability control, traction control, anti-lock brakes, electronic brake force distribution, brake assist, smart stop technology, crash crumple zones and break away engine mounts?

 

Oh wait, the Corolla has all of those. lol

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.......Regarding design, it's fortunate for Ford that their European designers are doing quality work for a change. Ford's NA designers have consistently, over the past 50 years, done better work than FoE. During the time period that FNA led three separate revolutions in automotive design, FoE did nothing remarkable and was in fact better known for producing reliable as opposed to stylish vehicles............

 

Uwe Bahnsen wouldn't agree with you.

 

The 1982 Sierra directly influenced the 1983 Thunderbird, 1984 Tempo and the 1986 Taurus.

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Oh you mean like advanced front and side airbags, vehicle stability control, traction control, anti-lock brakes, electronic brake force distribution, brake assist, smart stop technology, crash crumple zones and break away engine mounts?

 

Oh wait, the Corolla has all of those. lol

You mean, the Corolla you're driving, "I'm out. Having too much fun driving my boring old Corolla which by the way is getting better mpg with its old school 4 speed tranny", that Corolla, has "advanced front and side airbags, vehicle stability control, traction control, anti-lock brakes, electronic brake force distribution, brake assist, smart stop technology, crash crumple zones and break away engine mounts"

 

Lol, how did you get an "old school 4 speed tranny" with it? :hysterical:

 

"

 

 

 

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The 11k figure troubled me, until I saw what everybody else did this month:

 

Honda Civic: 17,133

Toyota Corolla: 16,115

Chevrolet Cruze: 13,238

VW Jetta: 12,891

Hyundai Elantra: 12,414

Ford Focus: 11,735

Census bureau pegs November as 90.3% of a 'typical' month for auto dealers. To calculate a SAAR, take November's number, divide it by .903 and multiply by 12.

 

That's 156k, which I transposed as 165k above. Couple that with rest of NA volume and the energi vehicles, and you're not looking at horrendous volume. Especially at these prices.

 

http://www.census.gov/retail/mrts/www/data/text/nadjusts.txt

Edited by RichardJensen
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Lead engineers do the development, Fiesta, Focus and Kuga- Escape are all FoE developed products.

Fusion will be US development and Foe will do final regional development on Mondeo...

 

 

Suggest you PM Austin and theoldwizzard for an education on FoE and their attitude.

And behind the scenes, One Ford is more like five Ford...with a lot of regional latitude.

 

I have heard many many time from Austin, and the old wizard about FOE, let me put it this way FNA and FOE have had to make adjustments to the way they do business, under One Ford, do you think Mullaly would allow the previous maleficence to continue? the Fact is no matter who leads the development of the Mondeo/fusion It will share a shit load of content with the focus, expect everything from switch gear to HVAC and under-skin components to be shared with the C-car, the next Edge will be what it was originally supposed to be, a CUV based on the fusion. It needs to lose 500lbs IMO, to remain competitive, ford Future volume growth will be in the CUV segment, the Escape, Edge, explorer will be very important in the next 5 years, I hope we can see a B-CUV in that ime frame to anchor the bottom of the lineup.

 

There is NOTHING wrong with the PowerShift. Period.

 

 

 

That.

 

The SE shouldn't need over $1,000 in options for aluminium wheels and cruise control. That's unacceptable.

 

In 2002, my Escort was standard with aluminium wheels - crank windows, but 15" alloys. There's no reason we can't have alloys standard on Focus 10 years later. None. That is more unacceptable to me than anything someone could say about the transmission. The PowerShift is minor in comparison to the option packaging.

 

My Focus was over $22,000. I could have gotten an Fusion SEL for more than my single-CD, non-moonroof Focus.

 

On a $100,000 budget, I would still choose my $22,375 Focus. There is nothing at any price that can compare.

 

Keep in mind the import do not even offer Alloy wheels until their higher trim levels. in this class steel wheels are common to see.

 

Yes, you shouldn't have to option new Focus SE up to $22,000 to get it to look nice. Alloy wheels should be standard on SE model just as they are on 2012 Fusion SE. Looking at inventories of Focus, I've noticed that you do have to spend at least $22,000 to get a decent one without crappy hubcaps. Ford needs to correct this with Job 2 and not wait until 2013MY. The scores of SE's I seen on dealer lots with hub caps deserve to sit for a long time. Never was a fan of the standard chrome covers on 2011 Fusion SE. I see so many of them with cracked plastic and curb rash. Looks horrible.

 

I would look to restruture the lineup this way. without the SEL

 

current order Guide

Focus S 16,500-19,200

the S which as of now has no options would remain where it is right now, but I would offer A $1500 package to bring it up to current SE Trim level. and offer a premium package to make the S equivalent to the SE conventiece package for an additional $400, and Sync Available for an additional $800. this would make an loaded S focus comparable to a Focus SE with sync and convenience package.

 

Focus SE 19,000-$24,000

I would increase the price of the SE to represnet the increased content of the S, make sync (myFord), the convenience package, and 16in alloys standard. make SE Equal the current SEL with DATC, ambeiant lighting and other SEL items the Convenience package for $1000, MFT a $1000 option, SE premium package (equivalent to the SEL premium package) For for $1500, Sport package ($1300) with special trim and EB 1.6

 

EcoNetic Option with the EB1.0 and the aero treatment of the current SFE ($800)

 

Focus Titanium $22,500- 29,000

I would leave the content the same but would make EB 1.6 standard, 6spd manual standard and the Automatic optional to make up for the EB1.6 being standard.

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Uwe Bahnsen wouldn't agree with you.

 

The 1982 Sierra directly influenced the 1983 Thunderbird, 1984 Tempo and the 1986 Taurus.

Unlike the '82 Sierra, the '86 Taurus was a success.

 

The '48 Hudson was the first modern car, but the '49 Ford was the first successful modern car.

 

The '61 Continental wasn't the only vehicle to eschew the chromed excesses of the previous period, but it was the most influential.

 

The Barracuda came out before the Mustang, but as a wag observed on this forum once before, 'there's a reason we don't call them fish cars.'

 

The '86 Taurus wasn't the first aero vehicle, the first vehicle with flush headlamps, or the first vehicle with no grille, but it was the first successful vehicle.

Edited by RichardJensen
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You mean, the Corolla you're driving, "I'm out. Having too much fun driving my boring old Corolla which by the way is getting better mpg with its old school 4 speed tranny", that Corolla, has "advanced front and side airbags, vehicle stability control, traction control, anti-lock brakes, electronic brake force distribution, brake assist, smart stop technology, crash crumple zones and break away engine mounts"

 

Lol, how did you get an "old school 4 speed tranny" with it? :hysterical:

 

"

 

Maybe because there was no need to update it to keep up with a Focus that it is already better than even with the fancy new dual crap tech. :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:

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Census bureau pegs November as 90.3% of a 'typical' month for auto dealers. To calculate a SAAR, take November's number, divide it by .903 and multiply by 12.

 

That's 156k, which I transposed as 165k above. Couple that with rest of NA volume and the energi vehicles, and you're not looking at horrendous volume. Especially at these prices.

 

http://www.census.gov/retail/mrts/www/data/text/nadjusts.txt

 

Exactly. Focus is doing just fine. My big question mark comes with the collapse of Cruze... they were moving over well over 20k this summer, to 18k September, 14k October, and 13k November. They've either cut fleet drastically or their summer incentives pulled ahead a bunch of sales. Wasn't a 3rd shift just recently added to Lordstown to keep up with Cruze demand?

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Unlike the '82 Sierra, the '86 Taurus was a success.

 

The '48 Hudson was the first modern car, but the '49 Ford was the first successful modern car.

 

The '61 Continental wasn't the only vehicle to eschew the chromed excesses of the previous period, but it was the most influential.

 

The Barracuda came out before the Mustang, but as a wag observed on this forum once before, 'there's a reason we don't call them fish cars.'

 

The '86 Taurus wasn't the first aero vehicle, the first vehicle with flush headlamps, or the first vehicle with no grille, but it was the first successful vehicle.

 

I believe the Taurus was the first car to have integrated, plastic wrap around bumpers front and rear that changed the looks of cars so much forever that everyone soon copied. I believe Mulally talked about that being one reason among many why he joined Ford. He remembered that vehicle and was impressed with that wraparound, integrated bumpers. Up to then, bumpers looked like fricking cowcatchers on locomotives.

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