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Avon Lake Medium Duty


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Why incur the costs of shipping large body panels and/or subassemblies when it is not necessary? And the costs are more than just the transportation cost - you add work in process, cost of safety stock (in case of transport disruptions), administrative costs and so on.

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Why incur the costs of shipping large body panels and/or subassemblies when it is not necessary? And the costs are more than just the transportation cost - you add work in process, cost of safety stock (in case of transport disruptions), administrative costs and so on.

 

 

Ironically This is what has been going on with the F-150 for decades, MTP ships almost every panel for the KCAP for assmbly, this changed but again this has and continues to happen today.

 

The idea is to replace the existing Stampings used for the E-series, not to simply have KCAP feed OHAP every part. There will be cutaway only Stampings that would be better produced closer to, or on-site of OHAP.

 

As for engines all gas transit engines are produced in Ohio in fact the EB35 is produced 20 miles away at CEP 2.

 

Lets no forget the Transmission is currently being made in Ohio too.

Edited by Biker16
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Ironically This is what has been going on with the F-150 for decades, MTP ships almost every panel for the KCAP for assmbly, this changed but again this has and continues to happen today.

 

DSP. Dearborn Stamping Plant.

 

MTP (Michigan Truck Plant) doesn't exist anymore.

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It's fine--as long as it's not looking over a MD-grade diesel engine on a MD frame.

 

Richard I keep seeing these Medium duty Trucks during my commute and I still cannot figure out What visibility issues there would be with a Van based cab.

 

gmc-topkick-c7500-02.jpg

vs

 

FordF650_06_HR950.jpg

 

All i can see is shorter hood, lower cowl and higher seating position.

Edited by Biker16
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That top model is out of production, and it didn't sell worth a crap when it was on the market. The bottom model has the worst cab in the segment for visibility (compare the International & FL MDs)

 

And regarding the use of a van cab. Sure, Ford could use a van cab. And they could also just slap a Lincoln grille on the Edge. Worked in the past. Kind of. So why not continue to do so?

Edited by RichardJensen
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This endless discussion about cabs would be much less endless if some posters actually would spend some seat time in these classes of trucks. We seem to keep beating that dead horse that we already beat into a pink mush.

What? How dare you ask an armchair CEO with zero heavy truck driving experience actually do such a thing.

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That top model is out of production, and it didn't sell worth a crap when it was on the market. The bottom model has the worst cab in the segment for visibility (compare the International & FL MDs)

 

And regarding the use of a van cab. Sure, Ford could use a van cab. And they could also just slap a Lincoln grille on the Edge. Worked in the past. Kind of. So why not continue to do so?

 

The GMT-560 TopKick/Kodiak class 6/7/8 models actually sold rather well (the class 4/5 didn't however). The problem was they were not profitable. Overenginereed, too many options, ect..

 

That picture illustrates the issue with the Fords well: Look at the distance between the rocker and the cab roof. That's the problem.

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This endless discussion about cabs would be much less endless if some posters actually would spend some seat time in these classes of trucks. We seem to keep beating that dead horse that we already beat into a pink mush.

 

Hey, I sit in Class 3-5 at least once a week, I have little experience in Class 6-7.

 

Hey could completely wrong about using a Van Cab in class 5-8 but I enjoy, Thinking of the possibilities for that cab in those segment.

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Hey, I sit in Class 3-5 at least once a week, I have little experience in Class 6-7.

 

Hey could completely wrong about using a Van Cab in class 5-8 but I enjoy, Thinking of the possibilities for that cab in those segment.

 

The point is NOT that the van cab would be bad in class 5-8, or that it is NOT better than what is already there. The point is that the van cab is not the IDEAL solution for 5-8. And if you are going to go all-in and try to make a big impact in the market, you need to put the cab that is BEST for that class on there, not something you have re-purposed.

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The point is NOT that the van cab would be bad in class 5-8, or that it is NOT better than what is already there. The point is that the van cab is not the IDEAL solution for 5-8. And if you are going to go all-in and try to make a big impact in the market, you need to put the cab that is BEST for that class on there, not something you have re-purposed.

 

I agree, but does ford want to be all in in the 5-8 segment? does ford want to sacrifice there 3-4 to make a competitive 5-8 product.

 

I think we have the 5-8 product we have because Ford doesn't see the need for a perfect product in that segment.

 

That being said, I strongly believe that replacing the E-series cutaway with a Non-van Form factor product would make Ford less competitive than they are today in that segment.

 

You have 60,000 Class 3-5 E-Series sold.

Add in an estimated 30,000 6-8 F-series medium

and an Unknown to me an additional number of Class 3-6 F-Series Chassis cab.

 

Is it worth the effort or even possible to Consolidate these into one product.

 

who knows.

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I agree, but does ford want to be all in in the 5-8 segment? does ford want to sacrifice there 3-4 to make a competitive 5-8 product.

 

I think we have the 5-8 product we have because Ford doesn't see the need for a perfect product in that segment.

 

That being said, I strongly believe that replacing the E-series cutaway with a Non-van Form factor product would make Ford less competitive than they are today in that segment.

 

You have 60,000 Class 3-5 E-Series sold.

Add in an estimated 30,000 6-8 F-series medium

and an Unknown to me an additional number of Class 3-6 F-Series Chassis cab.

 

Is it worth the effort or even possible to Consolidate these into one product.

 

Personally, I think the current 6-7 trucks are a trial for Ford. If this goes well, then they will go all-in in that class and truly attempt to make inroads in that market. If the new MD trucks are a relative failure, then they will bow out and forget it.

 

I think the results of that 'trial' will dictate what happens with the 3-5 E-Series. If it goes well, Ford goes to a custom cab for the 3+ E-Series and 6-7 MD together, making an all-around better vehicle for both classes. It could be a combination of van-ish and a MD cab similar to the FL version. If the trial does not go well, then the 3-5 will get the Transit cab and 6-7 just fades into the wind.

 

I don't think 3-5 F-Series Chassis Cab trucks will be affected at all. They will stay with the 2-4 Super Duty pickups as they are today, albeit with a separate frame.

 

 

who knows.

 

Bingo!

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The GMT-560 TopKick/Kodiak class 6/7/8 models actually sold rather well (the class 4/5 didn't however). The problem was they were not profitable. Overenginereed, too many options, ect..

 

That picture illustrates the issue with the Fords well: Look at the distance between the rocker and the cab roof. That's the problem.

 

That right there kind of highlights the whole issue, doesn't it?
(Though, to be fair, the Class 4/5 version probably tanked due to there already being an Express/Savana 4500)
Also, didn't the Topkick/Kodiak use the Express/Savana cab (which the Transit cab is taller than)?
It seems the question of whether to merge the whole of Class 3-7 into one cab comes back to the issue of Class 5.
Does Ford really want to introduce a non-Super Duty Class 5 vehicle? (I wonder what they would even call it. They can't call it a 'F-550') Would they find it in their current best interests to do so?
Remember that Ford already leads the Class 4-7 market over both Freightliner and Navistar (with those mainly being Class 4-5 sales, obviously) due to the Super Duty. Keep in mind that neither Freightliner nor Navistar offer a product that tackles the lower-end medium duty market that the E-350/450 does, nor even the lower Class 4 market that the E-450 does (and I'm willing to bet that the E-450 completely trounces any "Class 4" M2 and TerraStar sales). And also, remember that although the E-350 and the E-450 is the cutaway leader, the E-550 completely bombed.
I think the question comes down to how much Ford would save using one cab for Class 3-7 vs. using two separate cabs between something that 100% suits Class 6-7 (and maybe a potential 5) and something that 100% suits Class 3-4, and which of the two routes would actually be worth the costs.
Edited by zipnzap
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Personally, I think the current 6-7 trucks are a trial for Ford. If this goes well, then they will go all-in in that class and truly attempt to make inroads in that market. If the new MD trucks are a relative failure, then they will bow out and forget it.

I would agree that it is definitely a trial. Hopefully they are putting enough resources into it to give it a chance.

 

The F650/750 desperately needs a bigger petrol engine. A bigger diesel engine is not a bad idea either, Then, of course, there is the "yet unproven in this class" 6R140.

Edited by theoldwizard
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That right there kind of highlights the whole issue, doesn't it?
(Though, to be fair, the Class 4/5 version probably tanked due to there already being an Express/Savana 4500)
Also, didn't the Topkick/Kodiak use the Express/Savana cab (which the Transit cab is taller than)?
It seems the question of whether to merge the whole of Class 3-7 into one cab comes back to the issue of Class 5.
Does Ford really want to introduce a non-Super Duty Class 5 vehicle? (I wonder what they would even call it. They can't call it a 'F-550') Would they find it in their current best interests to do so?
Remember that Ford already leads the Class 4-7 market over both Freightliner and Navistar (with those mainly being Class 4-5 sales, obviously) due to the Super Duty. Keep in mind that neither Freightliner nor Navistar offer a product that tackles the lower-end medium duty market that the E-350/450 does, nor even the lower Class 4 market that the E-450 does (and I'm willing to bet that the E-450 completely trounces any "Class 4" M2 and TerraStar sales). And also, remember that although the E-350 and the E-450 is the cutaway leader, the E-550 completely bombed.
I think the question comes down to how much Ford would save using one cab for Class 3-7 vs. using two separate cabs between something that 100% suits Class 6-7 (and maybe a potential 5) and something that 100% suits Class 3-4, and which of the two routes would actually be worth the costs.

 

One would presume that if F650/750 are indeed successful, Ford would expand further into Class 5-6-7 with their CARGO line of low cab forward trucks. A Transit based cab for Class 4 to replace the aging E-Series (renamed T-Series MD) would put M2 and TerraStar sales on their ear....

 

Or.....E-Series CC cabs can soldier on for years with updates to frame and floorpans to accommodate new drivelines. (But I don't see that happening.)

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Dang....shoulda snapped a pic if you could've.....

Well I'm in the hammer lane and I'm coming up on this guy fast-and I see what looks like a Ram on the ass end-which it was-then I see the Fords!. In any case I call a dealer friend of mine to tell him of my sighting and he has 9 completed trucks sitting on the ground at OAP awaiting transport. He also said no more "drive aways"-everything is going to be shipped via drop deck trailers.

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