jasik Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 LINK New York Times article questions Ford's leadership and its chances for survival. Is Ford running out of time to complete its Second turnaround plan? :titanic: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 LINK New York Times article questions Ford's leadership and its chances for survival. Is Ford running out of time to complete its Second turnaround plan? :titanic: The article is well written, but ignorse 2 important facts: 1) Ford Motor Company is more than North American Market - Bill Ford proved himself turning the rest of the company around 2) Ford might not be the best executive, but he got a team of people working for hi that are - the turanround does not lay on Ford's shoulders - it lays on Fields' (and to lesser extent Stevens' and Horbury's) shoulders. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 LINK New York Times article questions Ford's leadership and its chances for survival. Is Ford running out of time to complete its Second turnaround plan? :titanic: Geeze what do they expect in 6 months' time, 12 new models and instant profitability? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005GTP Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 Ford Motor is toast. Ford Jr. does not have the experience to "turn around" a company and Fields is a little boy in giant's world so he is no help (well thats the word I got from people I know that work for Ford). There will also be a massive middle management ax job coming this fall which in my opinion is long overdue. Ford Motor's problem is their leadership and not just at the top. Those leaders also hire the wrong people to work for the company so its a trickledown spiral of mistakes. Then lets not forget their cars are boring as sin to look at. Ford cannot compete against Honda or Toyota on quality despite the fact that they could make just as good vehicles. The perception is their cars are inferior so Ford needs some other way to get a customer to take a look at their product and since the continue to dumb down their concepts and put cars out there that don't appeal to anyone, well they will continue to sink.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 "and put cars out there that don't appeal to anyone, well they will continue to sink...." Well, 2005GTP is entitled to his opinion, however shallow, myopic and ignorant it may be. Seems that the Fusion and Z and Mustang are selling, so they seem to appeal to everyone, and Ford will continue to rise: but that's just the market's opinion, and not from a sage like 2005GTP, and what does the market know, anyway, compared to 2005GTP's brilliant, incisive analysis? The NYT article was equally myopic, but, then again, the ol' NYT hasn't been that objective about automobiles from GM and Ford. Anyway, Ford will shrink in size, and it may be 10-15 years or more before they regain their marketshare, primarily because the truck and SUV market is changing and shrinking — for everybody, not just Ford. So, Ford will be smaller. Get over it. What's important is that what they sell is profitable, which means avoiding fleet sleds like the G6 and the Malibu. However, the critics have ADD besides comprehension problems, so this kind of myopic forecast of doom will continue for the foreseeable future, until another outfit like Nissan or VW finds that they are now the target of the media weasels and those that agree with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave9991 Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 (edited) Ford Motor is toast. Ford Jr. does not have the experience to "turn around" a company and Fields is a little boy in giant's world so he is no help (well thats the word I got from people I know that work for Ford). There will also be a massive middle management ax job coming this fall which in my opinion is long overdue. Ford Motor's problem is their leadership and not just at the top. Those leaders also hire the wrong people to work for the company so its a trickledown spiral of mistakes. Then lets not forget their cars are boring as sin to look at. Ford cannot compete against Honda or Toyota on quality despite the fact that they could make just as good vehicles. The perception is their cars are inferior so Ford needs some other way to get a customer to take a look at their product and since the continue to dumb down their concepts and put cars out there that don't appeal to anyone, well they will continue to sink.... Youre right, mark fields has no automotive experience at all...and people wonder why richard left. IF the powers that be put you in charge of ford and you were supposed to solve them usings your solutions you just provided then we'd probably be in worse off shape in the next few years. Edited July 16, 2006 by dave9991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanatWork Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 (edited) Ford Motor is toast. Ford Jr. does not have the experience to "turn around" a company and Fields is a little boy in giant's world so he is no help (well thats the word I got from people I know that work for Ford). There will also be a massive middle management ax job coming this fall which in my opinion is long overdue. Ford Motor's problem is their leadership and not just at the top. Those leaders also hire the wrong people to work for the company so its a trickledown spiral of mistakes. Then lets not forget their cars are boring as sin to look at. Ford cannot compete against Honda or Toyota on quality despite the fact that they could make just as good vehicles. The perception is their cars are inferior so Ford needs some other way to get a customer to take a look at their product and since the continue to dumb down their concepts and put cars out there that don't appeal to anyone, well they will continue to sink.... Wow. And these people are out in public. 1. "Boring as sin" isn't stopping Toyota, which is arguably the leading source of automotive boredom in the world. 2. Ford competed and continues to do so with the whole market. Years of damage done during the Trotman/Nasser years made Bill Ford's job very difficult...but he played Defense until Mark Fields was given the keys. Mark's ideas are in agreement with what every learned Ford fan knows: more power, more style, more quality, more efficiency, and ASAFP. The new plan is only months old, and new models in the works like the Edge and MKS will be of huge benefit to the company. The perception problem is a concern-and Toyota's discovering that right now. Read the news much? Edited July 17, 2006 by ZanatWork Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Explorer4X4 Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 How many cars have gotton the "Bold Move" on them? The Edge and Fusion, and the Explorer and Expedition right? Does Lincoln get the Bold look? The new Mark Z, Mark X and the new Navigators look pretty bold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005GTP Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 changing the tail lights and grill on a 6 year old vehicle and calling it all new and bold insults the customers' intelligence....now I don't need to project my opinion towards anyone....I just look at sales and profits and thats enough for me. Ford makes little or no money on their cars so as gas keeps getting more expensive and they sell less and less suv's, where is Ford going to generate profits from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanatWork Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 changing the tail lights and grill on a 6 year old vehicle and calling it all new and bold insults the customers' intelligence....now I don't need to project my opinion towards anyone....I just look at sales and profits and thats enough for me. Ford makes little or no money on their cars so as gas keeps getting more expensive and they sell less and less suv's, where is Ford going to generate profits from? Let's see... Explorer-new frame, driveline, interior Mustang-new for 2005, chassis stiffened and new sub-models this year Five Hundred-in 3rd production year, about to be restyled and updated Fusion-new this year, awd coming this fall with hybrid and other variants to follow F-150-new for 2004...hardly 6 years old. Escape-updated for 2005, major update next year Focus-ditto While there are a few that langusih (Crown Vic, Ranger, Ecololine), the majority do not. Hence, your statement is dealing with the MINORITY...why bother? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanatWork Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Is Ford Running on Empty?, New York Times Article on Ford Leadership Oh, THAT NYT! leak.bmp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005GTP Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Yeah yeah yeah I know the underpinnings of the Expys and Explorers are new but the average joe-blow that buys these cars looks at and sees the same sheet metal therefore they don't care that the interior is new or the car rides the best it ever has. They are chosing not to buy because they feel there is no innovation. Now, need I bring up the CV/GM, Focus, Escape, Freestar and some of the other junk Ford has been tossing at us like the Ranger and go "wow" thats new and innovative. Fact of the matter is, Ford has the oldest lineup in the industry and probably in the worst position because no real investor wants to touch Ford because the family runs the company. Look, I am a Ford fan but the writing is on the wall. The only way Ford will have a chance is for the family to give up control and let people who have the muscle to turn things around. Look at it this way, back in the 90's, Ford was consistantly selling 350 - 450k Explorers p/y and now that number is under 200k. With average profits per expl. at 5k +, Ford will need to sell about 2 to 3 Fusions for every loss of explorer just to maintain that profit level (hopefully the Edge picks up that slack). Ford has to give away cars just to get them off the lots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Look at it this way, back in the 90's, Ford was consistantly selling 350 - 450k Explorers p/y and now that number is under 200k. With average profits per expl. at 5k +, Ford will need to sell about 2 to 3 Fusions for every loss of explorer just to maintain that profit level (hopefully the Edge picks up that slack). Ford has to give away cars just to get them off the lots. Lets not forget that gas is 3x what it cost in the late 1990's when the Explorer had its best years. As for giving away cars...Ford has been doing fairly well with incentives and what not to move product. Take a look at the new Camery...they are in the same boat with offering incentive on it already... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxman100 Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Interesting to watch how liberals like the New York Times likes to eat their own (Bill Ford) I guess liberal American guilt outweighs anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluecon Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Obviously 2005GTP doesn't understand the system. If you want to avoid the attack ostriches you must say the Fordly correct thing.(similar to politically correct) Such as: Although Bill Ford has been up at the top of Ford for 10 years none of this is his fault. Soon Ford will conquer Toyota and the Lions, who jr and senior Ford have owned since 1964 will win the Superbowl. Otherwise expect to endure the rath of the attack ostriches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 the average joe-blow that buys these cars looks at and sees the same sheet metal therefore they don't care Actually the average joe-blow already owns an Explorer, Expedition, or Navigator. This is a shrinking market segment. More people are exiting it than entering it. That means few conquest customers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 (edited) Ford Motor is toast. Ford Jr. does not have the experience to "turn around" a company and Fields is a little boy in giant's world so he is no help (well thats the word I got from people I know that work for Ford). There will also be a massive middle management ax job coming this fall which in my opinion is long overdue. Ford Motor's problem is their leadership and not just at the top. Those leaders also hire the wrong people to work for the company so its a trickledown spiral of mistakes. Then lets not forget their cars are boring as sin to look at. Ford cannot compete against Honda or Toyota on quality despite the fact that they could make just as good vehicles. The perception is their cars are inferior so Ford needs some other way to get a customer to take a look at their product and since the continue to dumb down their concepts and put cars out there that don't appeal to anyone, well they will continue to sink.... I can see where 2005GTP is coming from. If I were to offer Ford a piece of advice, it would be KISS: Keep It Stylish and Sleek. Ford will not be able to pry Toyota and Honda owners away with bland styling. Ford learned 20 years ago that it would take truly radical styling to bring customers in from other automakers, and they proved it with the 1986 Taurus and Sable. While the customer was attracted to the styling, they found out that it was a pretty well-made vehichle and they kept coming back. The customer- and all humans for that matter- are fickle. Face it, do most people buy a house because it is energy effecient and has low property taxes? No! They buy it because of the curb appeal and the "neigborhood." Is a person more than likely to date a member of the opposite sex that has a "nice personality" even though that person may weigh 500 pounds and smell? Probably not. A nice personality is a bonus, but face it, most people are attracted to each other through chemistry. Go back to basics Ford. Bring out truly radical and groundbreaking styled cars and build them right and people will come back. Edited July 17, 2006 by Footballfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misteredog Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Actually the average joe-blow already owns an Explorer, Expedition, or Navigator. This is a shrinking market segment. More people are exiting it than entering it. That means few conquest customers. And that's only half of it, the segment has more players than ever before and is being cannibalised by the expansion of the midsize crossover segment. There'sno wat Ford could retain the '90s level of sales in the mid-size or large SUV segments no matter how excitng any redesign might have been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 One thing that is entirely symbolic of Junior's reign is the blurb about the executive dining room and gourmet lunches that are served. Albeit in the overall scheme of things it is a small expense, but symbolically it speaks volumes. A word to Ford execs: get out of the executive dining room and eat with rest of the Ford employees. Stop hiding in that executive suite. Come out and talk to the employees and the people who build your vehichles and you might learn something. The only time we see you is when bad news is being delivered. Do you really thing that two hour lunches are going to turn things around? Face it, your kingons are going to tell you anything that you want to hear- see it for yourself. The gulf between yourself and your employees and customers is as wide as the Grand Canyon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 (edited) << Fact of the matter is, Ford has the oldest lineup in the industry >> I'm inclined to say that is Mitsubishi. Except for the new Diamante, all their stuff is circa 2000. ---- And that's only half of it, the segment has more players than ever before and is being cannibalised by the expansion of the midsize crossover segment. There'sno wat Ford could retain the '90s level of sales in the mid-size or large SUV segments no matter how excitng any redesign might have been. Bingo. (Not a pun on your screen name) The Explorer will never be at where it once was sales-wise. The point for Ford, then, is to be the #1 selling SUV in a competitive field. I believe(?) GM's products are currently #1 and the Explorer is #2 (???), so the point is to get ahead of GM at the moment while keeping quality up. The new Edge should add sales, and the Escape has really nice styling so I hope they don't ---- it up by making it hyperagressive like the Edge. --- Ford will not be able to pry Toyota and Honda owners away with bland styling. Ford learned 20 years ago that it would take truly radical styling to bring customers in from other automakers, and they proved it with the 1986 Taurus and Sable. While the customer was attracted to the styling, they found out that it was a pretty well-made vehichle and they kept coming back. This is why it is essential that the Fusion keeps up the same very-reliable-car status that the 500 currently has, as the Fusion is currently a hit. (I have a vested interest, mind you - I want my Fusion to be very reliable.) Mind that some people say the original Taurii were POS, I hear. However, others say they were much better than the post-96 Taurii in both reliability and build quality. I'm not sure what to believe. Edited July 17, 2006 by Roadrunner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 (edited) Mind that some people say the original Taurii were POS, I hear. However, others say they were much better than the post-96 Taurii in both reliability and build quality. I'm not sure what to believe. No Ford launch had the same level of attention as the '86 Taurus until the '05 Mustang and Five Hundred. The good news is that level of attention is now SOP, with the D3s, CD3s, Mustang, Explorer and Mountaineer having exactly one safety recall among them. That's 9 vehicle launches at 4 plants accounting for about 850k units of volume per year with only one recall. And the lesson Ford has learned is that quality is not an accident. Having a '00 Sable at present, and having no little experience with the prev. generation platform, I can say build quality (squeaks and rattles) is slightly better in the Sable, and quality/reliability is waaaaaay better. I have had no electrical problems with the Sable whatsoever, and have had it for two years now (60k-90k). The tie-rods are shot, which is (sadly) a typical Ford glitch. But apart from that it has been a gem. While the ride in the 1st gen Taurus/Sable wasn't as good as the 2nd gen., I think we forget how well screwed together those things were. Friend just traded up his '94 Taurus, and while the A/C was shot, and the plastic was faded and cracked, it didn't squeak or rattle. Edited July 17, 2006 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 See, I think some folks downplay the first and second-gen Taurus by either comparing them to today's quality standards or trying to create revisionist history about them. However, not having any experience with the Taurus, I'm not qualified to comment on how good or bad they were built. You are very right in pointing out, though, that the D3s and Explorer/Mountaineer have superior quality. Here's hoping a situation like the 1999 Focus doesn't screw the pooch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 My Experance with the Taraus was this: 1989 Wagon, 13 times to the dealer for recalls or repairs Transmission out at 53K then again at 106K with a different owner Not excactly a great car with all its issues, but sure as hell drove nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanatWork Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Obviously 2005GTP doesn't understand the system.If you want to avoid the attack ostriches you must say the Fordly correct thing.(similar to politically correct) Such as: Although Bill Ford has been up at the top of Ford for 10 years none of this is his fault. Soon Ford will conquer Toyota and the Lions, who jr and senior Ford have owned since 1964 will win the Superbowl. Otherwise expect to endure the rath of the attack ostriches. Try to keep in mind that this advice comes from bluecon, queen pissant of this board. Bluecon has probably deserted more threads when his (her?) arguments lose air like a slashed tire...or just ignores any posts that don't agree with him. Bluecon is the ultimate ostritch in that regard-head stuck in the ground so no facts can permeate that tiny little mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005GTP Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Rumor has it the most recent news about Ford investing in a plant in Mexico was in fact a leak and inside Ford country, Fields and the rest were going nuts over who leaked that info...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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