Ktp1989 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 By having buyouts and more work insourced it is obvious that skilled trades will be brought back into trades. Really...since Mechanical trades will cut 1/3 of the trades when implemented? This is a buyout in hopes of getting rid of enough bodies to not have to put Skilled Trades back to the line...but if they do it's no sweat off Fords back, because they didn't have to implement that Skilled Trades workers forced back at Ford be paid Skilled Trades wages...but the IUAW did get that for GM in their contract. Now why didn't the IUAW get this for Ford...because there will be large numbers going back and it's a cost they don't want. I am sure King/Settles ask for this....but the company said no and they said...no problem, let's move on. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louie Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Well you will have over 500 pissed trades working in production for the next 4 years out there without this incentive. My choice is to get these skilled working in production back to trades with the new shifts, products and incentives. I'm already hearing of many wanting to go before 2012 Or vote no and stay in production Trades working in production at DTP are voting for this to get back to skilled A no vote will not get them out of production 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAP89 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Trades working in production at DTP are voting for this to get back to skilled A no vote will not get them out of production You are right about a no vote not getting them back to trades but neither will a yes vote. Our UAW is unwilling to fight for the trades so there is no way to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uawfactoryrat Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 (edited) You are right about a no vote not getting them back to trades but neither will a yes vote. Our UAW is unwilling to fight for the trades so there is no way to win. Your right, they are chipping away at trades and we are letting it happen. Why did GM agree to pay trades wages while in production? Clearly they are committed to trying to get them back or willing to be penalized financially if they don't. Why didn't Ford agree to this, they were willing to pay us in 2009 when they needed the "concessions". There is a simple reason they didn't want it, they know there will be allot of us still in production over the next four years. They say they will have talks about reskilling us, they "reskilled about 5 people in the last contract out of 500 laid off. Does that sound like they are both committed to getting us back on our tools? Though I am happy they upped the buy out for trades, most of these guys just wont leave even with 100,000 + 6,000+profit sharing. They know we are going to sit a long time. Edited October 8, 2011 by uawfactoryrat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAP89 Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Your right, they are chipping away at trades and we are letting it happen. Why did GM agree to pay trades wages while in production? Clearly they are committed to trying to get them back or willing to be penalized financially if they don't. Why didn't Ford agree to this, they were willing to pay us in 2009 when they needed the "concessions". There is a simple reason they didn't want it, they know there will be allot of us still in production over the next four years. They say they will have talks about reskilling us, they "reskilled about 5 people in the last contract out of 500 laid off. Does that sound like they are both committed to getting us back on our tools? Though I am happy they upped the buy out for trades, most of these guys just wont leave even with 100,000 + 6,000+profit sharing. They know we are going to sit a long time. I believe they intend to cut a lot of trades with the mechanical work teams. Way more than they will get to take the buyout and retire. Anyone forced to production will likely never get back in the trades. The trades that are left will find that things will change drastically. The lines of demarcation will be gone. All overtime will go to the company suckass of the group and you will not be able to grieve it. The skills of our trades will deteriorate over time and injuries will rise. I think all trades should vote no even if you think your seniority will ensure you never have to worry about being forced to production. If they planned on putting the trades back on their tools they would have no problem with paying the skilled pay rate for any trades in production like GM and Chrysler. The trades were thrown under the bus 4 years ago and Bob King and Jimmy Settles are happy to kick them under farther with this contract. Why does Bob King bring up pattern bargaining when he wants us to except concessions but it does not apply when it comes to trades pay? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve morris Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 By having buyouts and more work insourced it is obvious that skilled trades will be brought back into trades. Don't bet your life on that Machine Man. When the company tried to implement the "umbrella concept", management already started to reduce trades. I saw it and heard them discuss it first hand. Now with these "mechanical Teams", the same thing is going to happen. There will not be enough buyouts and in sourced jobs to protect the skilled trades. The concept is to take one of each mechanical trades (MW, PF, MR, TM) and form a team to where the team answers repair tickets. If a PF needs help, he ask another team member, NOT another PF. How many trades in each classification do they really need if they get away with this? How many Skilled Trades are going back to production and how many low seniority production people are going to lose their jobs? How many injuries do you foresee by trades doing work their unfamiliar with because they are worried about losing their jobs if they don't? This is bad news! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ktp1989 Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Don't bet your life on that Machine Man. When the company tried to implement the "umbrella concept", management already started to reduce trades. I saw it and heard them discuss it first hand. Now with these "mechanical Teams", the same thing is going to happen. There will not be enough buyouts and in sourced jobs to protect the skilled trades. The concept is to take one of each mechanical trades (MW, PF, MR, TM) and form a team to where the team answers repair tickets. If a PF needs help, he ask another team member, NOT another PF. How many trades in each classification do they really need if they get away with this? How many Skilled Trades are going back to production and how many low seniority production people are going to lose their jobs? How many injuries do you foresee by trades doing work their unfamiliar with because they are worried about losing their jobs if they don't? This is bad news! BUT I THOUGHT THIS CONTRACT CREATED 12000 JOBS? DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE. This contract is a joke...send this shit back up their asses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine Man Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Trades working in production at DTP are voting for this to get back to skilled A no vote will not get them out of production There are a lot of skilled who will vote yes on this contract. I think we have the few skilled on here that will vote no. Bonuses, buyouts and can get out of production along with jobs. Yes, they will vote no (eyes roll). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ktp1989 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 There are a lot of skilled who will vote yes on this contract. I think we have the few skilled on here that will vote no. Bonuses, buyouts and can get out of production along with jobs. Yes, they will vote no (eyes roll). General Maintenance....end of discussion. No trades I work with will vote for this b.s. contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiteford Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 I believe they intend to cut a lot of trades with the mechanical work teams. Way more than they will get to take the buyout and retire. Anyone forced to production will likely never get back in the trades. The trades that are left will find that things will change drastically. The lines of demarcation will be gone. All overtime will go to the company suckass of the group and you will not be able to grieve it. The skills of our trades will deteriorate over time and injuries will rise. I think all trades should vote no even if you think your seniority will ensure you never have to worry about being forced to production. If they planned on putting the trades back on their tools they would have no problem with paying the skilled pay rate for any trades in production like GM and Chrysler. The trades were thrown under the bus 4 years ago and Bob King and Jimmy Settles are happy to kick them under farther with this contract. Why does Bob King bring up pattern bargaining when he wants us to except concessions but it does not apply when it comes to trades pay? You reasoning about the company not paying skilled trade wages to work production is spot on. Ford knows with mechanical teams in place vary few trades will get back to there tools. Ford does not want to pay these trades there wages for the next 10 to 20+ years. I am currently working in a mechanical team environment. You people that are cheerleaders saying that this will get the trades more work must have no experience with it. If you did work in one you would realize this will do nothing but cut the trade numbers required to run a plant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAP89 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 You reasoning about the company not paying skilled trade wages to work production is spot on. Ford knows with mechanical teams in place vary few trades will get back to there tools. Ford does not want to pay these trades there wages for the next 10 to 20+ years. I am currently working in a mechanical team environment. You people that are cheerleaders saying that this will get the trades more work must have no experience with it. If you did work in one you would realize this will do nothing but cut the trade numbers required to run a plant. What pisses me off is Bob King and Jimmy Settles know that with the mechanical teams most trades will never get back on their tools but they will spin it differently. What do you want to bet they will be voting themselves another raise shortly. This is the conversation I picture happening sometime about 10 years ago. FORD: We really need to run our business like a non-union business so we can be more profitable. UNION: Well ok, as long as we can continue to collect union dues. How about double or nothing on the next 18 holes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tool&dyin in monroe Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 What pisses me off is Bob King and Jimmy Settles know that with the mechanical teams most trades will never get back on their tools but they will spin it differently. What do you want to bet they will be voting themselves another raise shortly. This is the conversation I picture happening sometime about 10 years ago. FORD: We really need to run our business like a non-union business so we can be more profitable. UNION: Well ok, as long as we can continue to collect union dues. How about double or nothing on the next 18 holes. Im pissed that in a contract you need language to support proposals in that contract. Not if it's a UAW contract pertaining towards trades. No language on how we will be replacing the skilled buyouts. According to Keats we will monitor it and the company promises one for one. If we had language to hold the company accountable we wouldn't need empty promises that won't be upheld. Same for a time frame or implementation of the skilled work groups. Once again up to the company. We pay these guys to protect but without language there is no protection. Hell even with language we are only minimally protected because the company always gets the right to conduct and run the company in the best interest of the company. I just feel betrayed by our union all for a couple company promises. I'll be voting NO !! But whatever you do please VOTE !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyzrx Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Where does it say you will keep or get back your trade pay? I didn't see that you would only get your trades pay if outside contractors are are doing your work at your plant. Thats only if you catch them and file a grievance! Really I have no doubt this will happen in the future. Contractors doing our work with us on the line! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAP89 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 you would only get your trades pay if outside contractors are are doing your work at your plant. Thats only if you catch them and file a grievance! Really I have no doubt this will happen in the future. Contractors doing our work with us on the line! I agree. It will happen with the unions blessing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatso Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Trades 'old-timers' do not retire,,,they expire.The race is on to see who can survive the longest.50 years seniority is only the beginning.These 'old-timers' will be around to give you and me a kik in the azz out the door."I wanna work another weekend"!!!!!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bustedknuckles Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 We're screwed, skilled trades is the minority. Production controls the vote and most of them really don't care about us . What the company really wants is trades working the line, and repairing it as well. Now thats cost savings. I hope I have enough time to keep me in the mechanical teams but I'm not counting on it. What I do know is when my kids are done with school and on their own I will jump ship if I'm working production. Until then all I can do is hope for the best , I hope we're all wrong but I doubt it . I really would love to see all trades working in trades. It's not asking for that much is it ? Good luck to all my skilled brothers and sisters. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatso Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 When a tradesperson goes to work production are they also forced to take a pay cut or do they keep earning the trade hourly wage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wixom22 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 When a tradesperson goes to work production are they also forced to take a pay cut or do they keep earning the trade hourly wage? At ford we take a pay cut and reduce to production rate. At GM and Chrysler they keep there trade wage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAP89 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 At ford we take a pay cut and reduce to production rate. At GM and Chrysler they keep there trade wage. I guess pattern bargaining is only used for the race to the bottom.We would not want the media or the transplants to think we were so unreasonable as to believe it should work both ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oap2ktpvet Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 We're screwed, skilled trades is the minority. Production controls the vote and most of them really don't care about us . What the company really wants is trades working the line, and repairing it as well. Now thats cost savings. I hope I have enough time to keep me in the mechanical teams but I'm not counting on it. What I do know is when my kids are done with school and on their own I will jump ship if I'm working production. Until then all I can do is hope for the best , I hope we're all wrong but I doubt it . I really would love to see all trades working in trades. It's not asking for that much is it ? Good luck to all my skilled brothers and sisters. Sad but true best to you and yours as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oap2ktpvet Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Trades 'old-timers' do not retire,,,they expire.The race is on to see who can survive the longest.50 years seniority is only the beginning.These 'old-timers' will be around to give you and me a kik in the azz out the door."I wanna work another weekend"!!!!!!!! You are right fatso there are people who will never leave til they are carried out. Ive got 20 years now and plan to be out under 35. I don't want to spend the rest of my life in a ford plant but some folks just don't have an outside life I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyzrx Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 it also looks as though we will have to bid on any new project work if I understand the contract language? trades will have to make a business case for any new project work? DOES NOT LOOK GOOD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wixom22 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Good news for Skilled in this agreement. Many (over 600) now working in production or ILO will be returning to Skilled under this agreement. This windfall of job security and buy outs will bring my Skilled brethren back to Skilled. Welcome back brothers for soon you will be back on your tools earning your skilled wage Good job IUAW Bump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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