My comparison: Compact sedans

[DC Car Examiner]

Small cars are in one of the market segments I try to pay the most attention to, and I hadn't done a series of back-to-back economy sedan drives since my very first Examiner.com comparison back in 2008. Since then, nearly everything has been redesigned, so I drove nearly everything -- 10 cars in all.

 

All that's missing from the class as generally defined is the Mitsubishi Lancer (it came in distant last even in my 2008 writeup), the Subaru Impreza (redesign is on the way) and the Suzuki SX4 (I went with the Kizashi instead, which is more in line with the latest compacts' price, size and feel; the SX4 lines up more with the likes of the Hyundai Accent).

 

The link to the introduction is below, which shows the cars selected for the comparison and includes links to past write-ups:

 

http://www.examiner.com/cars-in-national/comparison-review-ten-compact-sedans-introduction

 

The ranking order and explanations are coming tomorrow -- hopefully early tomorrow. I imagine you'll be as surprised as I was with some of the results, which did not match what I was predicting going in. My top three were cars I was guessing would be in the bottom half, two of which possibly as last-place contenders. The full reviews and photo galleries, which take significant time to assemble and persuade the Examiner.com software to publish, will come later.

Edited September 13, 2011 by DC Car Examiner

[DC Car Examiner]

The rankings and summary -- how the models stack up in different ways: http://www.examiner.com/cars-in-national/comparison-review-ten-compact-sedans-ranking-summary

 

I've also added for this comparison a new way of reviewing the rankings: car-by-car "report cards" that make it easy to skim one particular car's various rankings and ratings. It's available as a photo slideshow.

[aneekr]

Nicely written review. I like your new "report card" format for conveying evaluation results on Examiner.com. Very useful.

Edited September 13, 2011 by aneekr

[DC Car Examiner]

Thanks!

[twmalonehunter]

The rankings and summary -- how the models stack up in different ways: http://www.examiner.com/cars-in-national/comparison-review-ten-compact-sedans-ranking-summary

 

I've also added for this comparison a new way of reviewing the rankings: car-by-car "report cards" that make it easy to skim one particular car's various rankings and ratings. It's available as a photo slideshow.

 

Not a single "shaky panel" in my focus, fit and finish is excellent. Also think you should pay more attention to real world fuel mileage, as some of the cars have trouble meeting epa estimates.

 

 

I agree somewhat on the interior room in the focus, but its perfect for me and my son.

 

Could use 100 more HP....oh wait ST! Problem solved.

[DC Car Examiner]

I drove two Focuses at different dealers and both some trim problems (one pretty significant).

 

Real-world mileage is hard to calculate in a fair way, too -- you'd need to drive the cars the exact same way for a significant distance. Obviously that would be ideal, but even most multi-driver review teams can't quite hit that standardization level.

[timmm55]

You gave the Cruze an A for driving experience and a B+ for the Focus? You are the only reviewer that I've seen who has rated the Cruze better.

 

10. Ford Focus: D+

The rear seat and even the front passenger seat are cramped, though the the trunk volume is decent.

 

Come on! your weighting of practicality is skewed to the absurd. I really doubt that any of these cars are below a B- in practicality. While cost is important, there is a reason why you can't get a discount on some cars. I'll even argue the "cramped" comment. It has a swept away dash/console. That is an emotional reaction. What are the stats on interior volume and dimensions?

 

So the Cruze, which most think is good and bland, but already somewhat out of date is 1st? The Jetta which has been lambasted for being bargain basement cheap in it's decontented form is 3rd because basically it's bigger?

 

I have a lot of problems with your reviews in general. There's Very little empirical information. There's a lot of subjective views mixed with a "gotta be cheap" attitude. No matter how many charts and graphs you put out, it doesn't change the fact that it's all OPINION. Not one timed trial. No measurements.

 

If you were buying a car for yourself, it would be fine. But you're putting yourself out there as a expert. I expect a whole lot more before I'll quote you as an expert.

Here's a real review:

http://www.insideline.com/ford/focus/2012/comparison-test-2011-chevrolet-cruze-ltz-vs-2012-ford-focus-titanium.html

 

 

Interior Dimensions

2011 Chevrolet Cruze LTZ 2012 Ford Focus Titanium

Front headroom, in. 39.3 38.3

Rear headroom, in. 37.9 38.0

Front shoulder room, in. 54.8 55.6

Rear shoulder room, in. 53.9 53.7

Front legroom, in. 42.3 43.7

Rear legroom, in. 35.4 33.2

Cargo volume, cu-ft. 15.0 13.2

Max cargo volume, cu-ft. N/A N/A

 

Note the BOLD is where the "cramped" Focus betters the Cruze. Hey, I think the Cruze is nice little car........I'd recommend it.......only if the driving experience is limited to the parking lot.

[akirby]

I'm 5'11" 250 and I just rode in my daughter's 2011 Focus SEL hatchback passenger seat last night on the way to and from Waffle House. I was not "cramped" in the least. But I'm just an owner so what the hell do I know?

[Deanh]

I drove two Focuses at different dealers and both some trim problems (one pretty significant).

 

Real-world mileage is hard to calculate in a fair way, too -- you'd need to drive the cars the exact same way for a significant distance. Obviously that would be ideal, but even most multi-driver review teams can't quite hit that standardization level.

Im curious...how do you get these dealers to just hand you keys to rack up mileage to base an opinion on? I doubt they just go hey Brrady go at it, mileage isnt an issue. In which case I question how valid the opinions are if the mileage accrued is less than what can be acheived in at least 3 days driving....a 10-20-hell even 100 mile jaunt is no where near enough seat time in which to come to a firm accurate conclusion....strange to say the least...oh, and one thing, like the comment about the Drivers seat being the only comfortable seat in the focus, is the passengers seat somewhat smaller?....j/k Brady.....and PS, real world mileage can be calculated if seat time is as I have stated....

[DC Car Examiner]

Im curious...how do you get these dealers to just hand you keys to rack up mileage to base an opinion on? I doubt they just go hey Brrady go at it, mileage isnt an issue. In which case I question how valid the opinions are if the mileage accrued is less than what can be acheived in at least 3 days driving....a 10-20-hell even 100 mile jaunt is no where near enough seat time in which to come to a firm accurate conclusion....strange to say the least...oh, and one thing, like the comment about the Drivers seat being the only comfortable seat in the focus, is the passengers seat somewhat smaller?....j/k Brady.....and PS, real world mileage can be calculated if seat time is as I have stated....

 

So shall I discount everyone in this thread with less than three days of driving? Or does that only apply to people who disagree with you?

 

And no, driving different cars on different ways over different days most definitely does not make any proof about real-world fuel economy. Without explicit caveats, it's even worse than not providing data, because different conditions are being directly compared as if they were achieved the same way.

 

 

As to your other comment, you seem concerned that a review is expressing an opinion. That is what reviews do, and most people understand that perfectly. Your opinion appears to be that the style of a dash is more important than interior space, and you are sharing it. You refer to another car as "out of date" because, well, it's not exactly clear what that's based on.

 

Your other opinion appears to be that a number is more relevant than real-world experience, which is completely not the case for interior volume. The shape of the seats and console, the size of the rear floor hump, the foot space beheath the front seats -- all of these are factors that a measurement ignores. (Not that I argued that the Focus lacks front seat legroom or that the Cruze has outstanding rear shoulder room anyway.)

 

The front passenger seat, in my experience, was astonishingly narrow -- more so than the driver's, without a doubt more so than any competitor. Obviously someone can physically fit there without, but that's not the standard of a modern $21,000 car. (Incidentally, when I asked one of my two salesmen -- owner of a 2010 Focus -- whether there was anything he preferred in his car over the 2012, the first thing he said was to the effect of "I was more comfortable in this seat during test drives.")

 

Your other opinion appears to be that each of these cars has enough room for your standards, and that therefore they should all receive high ratings. I disagree with that. You act as though that makes your opinion right and mine wrong. Most subcompacts have more usable rear seating than the least roomy of the compact class, and that does not merit a high grade for me in a ranking of how much stuff a car can hold.

 

The point is not that no car should be allowed to have less room than another. As is the case in every pro/con, it is to highlight that shortcoming and explain what you get in return, so someone can decide on their own whether that tradeoff is worth it. And I think that will be even clearer when the full detailed review emerges.

[aneekr]

I drove two Focuses at different dealers and both some trim problems (one pretty significant).

You are definitely not the only one; a new Sonic Blue Focus SEL at my local Ford dealership (with an August 2011 build date) exhibited some glaring trim fitment issues inside and out. Either the dealership was lackadaisical in completing PDI on this particular car, or far more likely based on other Foci I've seen, quality control at the assembly plant needs to be upgraded dramatically.

 

Edited September 15, 2011 by aneekr

[PREMiERdrum]

I've seen far too many complaints (and photos, as aneekr kindly posted) of assembly issues with new Focus to believe these are "exceptions". The fact that we've been hearing of these issues since June, and an August build is exhibiting the same problems, is simply unacceptable.

[CKNSLS]

I've seen far too many complaints (and photos, as aneekr kindly posted) of assembly issues with new Focus to believe these are "exceptions". The fact that we've been hearing of these issues since June, and an August build is exhibiting the same problems, is simply unacceptable.

 

 

Honestly,

I haven't see that poor of a build quality since buying a new 1979 Ford Fairmont Futura. It had a trunk lid that one could put all their fingers on one hand through on the driver's side. Even the 2001 Explorer, while having engineering issues, it was basically well put together.

[CKNSLS]

D.C.

I like your reviews. But I must tell you - I knew the conclusion (rankings) you came to would get you alot of crap thrown your way.

[timmm55]

DC "Examiner," I've read several of your reviews. Curious, I went to visit some of the other "Examiner" cities like the San Diego Examiner. That was a total joke (Chrysler 200 convertible review My link)

 

Back to your comments:

 

The front passenger seat, in my experience, was astonishingly narrow -- more so than the driver's, without a doubt more so than any competitor

 

MEASURE IT! If it was so "astonishingly narrow" why didn't you scoop the other magazines with some hard evidence?

 

You act as though that makes your opinion right and mine wrong.

 

BINGO

 

 

........so someone can decide on their own whether that tradeoff is worth it.

 

I have, and in doing so I've rated your review also.

 

Your follow up comments are worse than Motor Trend's defensive stand. A critic who can't stand criticism, how ironic.

 

And I think that will be even clearer when the full detailed review emerges.

Tomorrow I'm going to bring a tape measure to check on the passenger seat. What emerges then? How do I measure astonishing?

 

(Or could someone here with a new Focus measure the width of their front seats?)

[akirby]

Tomorrow I'm going to bring a tape measure to check on the passenger seat. What emerges then? How do I measure astonishing?

 

(Or could someone here with a new Focus measure the width of their front seats?)

 

I just did. The measurements of both front seats are EXACTLY THE SAME down to 1/4".

 

This is astonishingly stupid.

[DC Car Examiner]

I think I wasn't clear -- I'm not talking about the cushion itself as much as the total seating area, which narrows precipitously from hip to leg.

 

[BrewfanGRB]

Your verbiage wasn't ambiguous. It says "front passenger seat". There's is no interpretation to derive from that other than the SEAT. I think in almost every car, the width of the seat itself is greater than the width of the footwell. Fine, it was narrow. But, even if I accept your opinion as just that (which is perfectly, fine, btw), telling it's "astonishingly narrow" tells me nothing at all. What if it turns out every passenger footwell had a width within an inch of the Focus's? Why are they ASTONISHINGLY narrow, too? You will say it's your perception or how the structure of the car itself varies from model to model, so one "feels" narrower than the other.

 

What's actually happening is confirmation bias. You sit in the Focus, are surprised by how narrow it "feels" (you CANNOT attest to how narrow it actually IS, as you've not measured it) and that is in your mind---unless another model is SIGNIFICANTLY narrowER, none of the other models will get that ASTONISHINGLY narrow descriptor. It's human nature and very difficult for anyone to overcome. Sorry, but even in a pure opinion comparo, using descriptions like this provides me, as a reader, next to no information. (Yes, it's narrow. But, I'm buying a small car...if I am surprised by how narrow it is, regardless to what DEGREE, then I am an idiot. What I need is, how does the "narrowness" of each compare to the others)?

[DC Car Examiner]

When I say a "small rear seat," I refer to the amount of space for someone to sit, not the dimensions of the cushion. I used that same terminology to say a small front seat, which was obviously confusing.

 

Speaking as someone who sat in 10 compact sedans very close to each other, I can say with confidence that the others have more front-passenger space. It doesn't matter what the numbers say, because a passenger in the car isn't riding in a number.

[mettech]

For me, there is no question on the front seat room area.. I'm 6'3".. the two time I test drove the Focus.. I hit my knee on the dash getting out... and the leg room between the door and center console is narrower then on the Cruze.

 

I like the seat on the Focus... but not the leg room.. The Cruze and even the Fiesta fits me better than the Focus.

[aneekr]

It doesn't matter what the numbers say, because a passenger in the car isn't riding in a number.

This is why comparison tests like this one from DC Car Examiner are valuable. And why thorough test drives of competing cars involving all family members who will be regular drivers or passengers are essential.

Edited September 16, 2011 by aneekr

[blazerdude20]

So shall I discount everyone in this thread with less than three days of driving? Or does that only apply to people who disagree with you?

 

no you shouldn't. you see, we are just car fans. we like cars and enjoy reading about them, but we most assuredly do not consider ourselves to be professional car reviewers. you on the other hand claim to be a professional car reviewer. we don't need a lot of seat time to base our obviously biased opinion but when you do it for a living you should spend more time on your craft.

 

BTW, did it ever occur to you that spending a week in each the cruze and jetta gave you more time to like them? not really a fair review when you consider 7 days in each of those to only a couple hours tops in the competitors?

 

I apologize if i'm being a bit harsh, but i'm just trying to be helpful. i like your writing style and don't mind most of your reviews but some are so highly opinionated to the point of almost being un-readable. good luck!

Edited September 16, 2011 by blazerdude20

[Deanh]

So shall I discount everyone in this thread with less than three days of driving? Or does that only apply to people who disagree with you?

 

And no, driving different cars on different ways over different days most definitely does not make any proof about real-world fuel economy. Without explicit caveats, it's even worse than not providing data, because different conditions are being directly compared as if they were achieved the same way.

 

 

As to your other comment, you seem concerned that a review is expressing an opinion. That is what reviews do, and most people understand that perfectly. Your opinion appears to be that the style of a dash is more important than interior space, and you are sharing it. You refer to another car as "out of date" because, well, it's not exactly clear what that's based on.

 

Your other opinion appears to be that a number is more relevant than real-world experience, which is completely not the case for interior volume. The shape of the seats and console, the size of the rear floor hump, the foot space beheath the front seats -- all of these are factors that a measurement ignores. (Not that I argued that the Focus lacks front seat legroom or that the Cruze has outstanding rear shoulder room anyway.)

 

The front passenger seat, in my experience, was astonishingly narrow -- more so than the driver's, without a doubt more so than any competitor. Obviously someone can physically fit there without, but that's not the standard of a modern $21,000 car. (Incidentally, when I asked one of my two salesmen -- owner of a 2010 Focus -- whether there was anything he preferred in his car over the 2012, the first thing he said was to the effect of "I was more comfortable in this seat during test drives.")

 

Your other opinion appears to be that each of these cars has enough room for your standards, and that therefore they should all receive high ratings. I disagree with that. You act as though that makes your opinion right and mine wrong. Most subcompacts have more usable rear seating than the least roomy of the compact class, and that does not merit a high grade for me in a ranking of how much stuff a car can hold.

 

The point is not that no car should be allowed to have less room than another. As is the case in every pro/con, it is to highlight that shortcoming and explain what you get in return, so someone can decide on their own whether that tradeoff is worth it. And I think that will be even clearer when the full detailed review emerges.

? geez Brady....judging by your response I touched a nerve, and apparently I had 3 opinions?....I read, and reread my comment, I saw one opinion and that was about the passengers seat...and its not really an opinion, seats the same as the drivers, yet less comfortable....maybe its the footwell?. As for the drivers seat, damn comfy, maybe one of the best contoured seats Ford has made, and the steering wheel on the Titanium I drove yesterday is EXCELLENT. Im, not calling you out personally, but the thing that really GETS me from Magazine writers, is most opinions are based on limited seat time....how valid can that "opinion" actually be? The conclusions based on limited time should be suspect to say the least, i would almost be tempted to recommend driving rental cars for a week or so, on vehicle that have racked up serious mileage....As for interior room, in the focus's case i think its deceiving, i dont rightfully know the exact numbers, but Ford seems intent on these wrap-around cockpit like interiors, and they can give that impression, witness the Taurus. Personally I like it, but in a car of the taurus size its a mistake...then again thats an opinion, and I will be the first to say opinions are subjective. Still want to know how you get carte blanche from various dealerships.

[Deanh]

You are definitely not the only one; a new Sonic Blue Focus SEL at my local Ford dealership (with an August 2011 build date) exhibited some glaring trim fitment issues inside and out. Either the dealership was lackadaisical in completing PDI on this particular car, or far more likely based on other Foci I've seen, quality control at the assembly plant needs to be upgraded dramatically.

 

now thats inexcusable....shame on the factory releasing something they should be embarassed about, and shame on the dealership for not rectifying the issue....if i jumped in a car like that here it would be straight back to the bodyshop. That said, all the Focii that have crossed my pathe here have been superbly put together...and im a picky SOB....

[DC Car Examiner]

no you shouldn't. you see, we are just car fans. we like cars and enjoy reading about them, but we most assuredly do not consider ourselves to be professional car reviewers. you on the other hand claim to be a professional car reviewer. we don't need a lot of seat time to base our obviously biased opinion but when you do it for a living you should spend more time on your craft.

 

BTW, did it ever occur to you that spending a week in each the cruze and jetta gave you more time to like them? not really a fair review when you consider 7 days in each of those to only a couple hours tops in the competitors?

 

I apologize if i'm being a bit harsh, but i'm just trying to be helpful. i like your writing style and don't mind most of your reviews but some are so highly opinionated to the point of almost being un-readable. good luck!

 

The two cars I had for a week out of this comparison were the Civic (eighth place) and Elantra (fourth place). More time offers more of a chance to find both strengths and flaws.

 

And reviews state opinions. That's what they are. Reviews that don't take a stance don't say anything, or at the very least don't say anything different from any other review. A useful review isn't naming a bunch of specs and describing feature content. To state whether a car is good at something is, for the most part, someone's opinion. If one car was factually better than another, everyone would just buy that one.

Edited September 17, 2011 by DC Car Examiner