alpha1847 Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 I can only hope that Ford's strategy to roll out this great new powertrain in FWD form only is a temporary one. I've read every defense of this strategy, and it usually focuses around people wanting to maximize absolute fuel economy and thus willing to settle for FWD. Additionally, I've heard all of the arguments that FWD is still fine for those of us who live in the snow belt, which is probably true 95% of the time. However, I am confident that there are plenty of consumers, like myself, who simply want AWD and would still like to improve fuel economy. It's not a question of absolute maximum, it's a question of improvement over what a consumer would otherwise buy. For me, that's a sedan or crossover/SUV with AWD. Whether you are talking about the Explorer (20/28) or Edge (21/30) with the 2.0 Ecoboost, the light-weight, low-drag, FWD-biased AWD system for either of those two vehicles would be unlikely to put a big dent in those numbers, and maybe close to no impact if Ford went with the same final drive ratio with the AWD, which you would think the low-end torque of the Ecoboost would allow. Even with the higher final drive with the AWD, you are probably talking about losing 1 mpg city and 2 mpg highway. I think an AWD Edge that hit 20/28 would be quite appealing (compared to 18/25 for the V6 AWD). That would be better than the smaller and lighter Kia Sportage Turbo (21/26). That would probably be enough for me to give up my RX400h AWD, because it would have virtually the same combined fuel economy (if they threw that powertrain into the MKX, I would already be at the Lincoln dealer). 19/26 for the Explorer would be a nice bump over the 17/23 of the V6 AWD too. I think Ford is underestimating the market for this powertrain. That includes it's application in the 2013 Taurus. There is an even larger shortage of fuel-efficient AWD sedans, in my opinion. You really have few options in that size/price range. A far less powerful Subaru Legacy or a smaller and more expensive Audi A4. I know there are many consumers like myself (because I have many friends who have the same exact mind on this) who would love to buy American, but simply want something where there are no competitive offerings from our American manufacturers. We seem to be getting CLOSER though, so my hope is that Ford will take the lead on correcting this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTwannabe Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 AWD is considered a "premium" feature and you need to order a "premium" trim level (which includes a "premium" engine) to get it. Ford makes more profit this way (can't order an F-150 XL with leather seats and a sunroof, for example) since you have to buy a high trim level to get a must-have option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 If the 2.0 EB has lackluster performance with AWD, Ford's not going to offer it. Or they figure they simply won't have the volume to build both FWD or AWD variants. Or they think it will cost too much. Simply put: Ford is doing it for a reason. Might not be a reason you like, but hey, there's a reason new cars don't cost $19.99 either, even though I'd really like it if they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpha1847 Posted August 8, 2011 Author Share Posted August 8, 2011 AWD is considered a "premium" feature and you need to order a "premium" trim level (which includes a "premium" engine) to get it. Ford makes more profit this way (can't order an F-150 XL with leather seats and a sunroof, for example) since you have to buy a high trim level to get a must-have option. I am not sure what you are getting at here - are you agreeing with me and helping to prove my point? The 2.0 Ecoboost will be an optional, premium engine. AWD is only planned to be offered with the base engine or the Sport. I'd be fine if they only offered it on the Limited 2.0 Ecoboost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpha1847 Posted August 8, 2011 Author Share Posted August 8, 2011 If the 2.0 EB has lackluster performance with AWD, Ford's not going to offer it. Or they figure they simply won't have the volume to build both FWD or AWD variants. Or they think it will cost too much. Simply put: Ford is doing it for a reason. Might not be a reason you like, but hey, there's a reason new cars don't cost $19.99 either, even though I'd really like it if they did. My hope is that this is just about volume of 2.0 Ecoboost engines the first year. I doubt it's performance. Adding less than 200lbs and the very little drag that a modern, light-weight AWD system adds these days is unlikely to have a big impact. I can still complain about this, because it stops me from purchasing an otherwise fine vehicle. Again, my point is that I'd bet there are many other consumers like me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hahnk37 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 My hope is that this is just about volume of 2.0 Ecoboost engines the first year. I doubt it's performance. Adding less than 200lbs and the very little drag that a modern, light-weight AWD system adds these days is unlikely to have a big impact. I can still complain about this, because it stops me from purchasing an otherwise fine vehicle. Again, my point is that I'd bet there are many other consumers like me. This combo will likely break through in the escape and fusion replacements as the turbo engines will be actual premium engines compared to the base engine with no V6 option available. Unless they drop AWD but I can't see that happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 This combo will likely break through in the escape and fusion replacements as the turbo engines will be actual premium engines compared to the base engine with no V6 option available. Unless they drop AWD but I can't see that happening. This scenario seems pretty likely to me as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 This scenario seems pretty likely to me as well. Well I think it also matters on how popular the option becomes. If only a small percentage go for it then we may never see AWD on these models. If the take rate is more like the Eco-Boost has been in the F-150 then Ford might change their mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpha1847 Posted August 10, 2011 Author Share Posted August 10, 2011 Well I think it also matters on how popular the option becomes. If only a small percentage go for it then we may never see AWD on these models. If the take rate is more like the Eco-Boost has been in the F-150 then Ford might change their mind. Maybe, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out AWD is popular in crossovers and SUVs. I think the success of the Ecoboost is a forgone conclusion. Ford has priced it as a reasonable upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Well I think it also matters on how popular the option becomes. If only a small percentage go for it then we may never see AWD on these models. If the take rate is more like the Eco-Boost has been in the F-150 then Ford might change their mind. I think the take rate in the Escape would be pretty similar to what the V6 is now, which would make it more than justifiable to pair it with AWD in that vehicle at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLPRacing Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 If I had to guess Ford's logic for not offering the EcoBoost I-4 in the Explorer with AWD is probably due to the fact that it probably got similar gas mileage as a V6 Explorer with AWD. Why would anybody pay extra for similar gas mileage and less HP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpha1847 Posted August 11, 2011 Author Share Posted August 11, 2011 If I had to guess Ford's logic for not offering the EcoBoost I-4 in the Explorer with AWD is probably due to the fact that it probably got similar gas mileage as a V6 Explorer with AWD. Why would anybody pay extra for similar gas mileage and less HP? While possible, that just doesn't seem probable. I just don't see how adding less than 200lbs and the little bit of drag from Ford's lightweight, FWD-biased system would drop the mileage that much. In most cases, these systems lost about 1 mpg in the city and 1-2 on the highway, and that's usually with a higher final drive ratio, which might not be needed with the Ecoboost. It has to be a supply issue, as they are trying to roll this out to the Explorer, Edge and Taurus all around the same time. I believe the Focus may get a version as well. I just wish Ford suggest it was in the works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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