How bad are America's finances?

[Aces]

The goal is to keep partisan politics out of the thread.

[Marginal Economist]

Let me tell you how bad Americas finances are----------->I live in a middle class area full of small business owners, people who are managers, mid level bankers, and some blue collar mixed in. I can say that when we talk, everyone is worried about their jobs, the economy, the debt. Almost everyone knows when outside in the backyard, what the stock market did, if the unemployment rate went up, if gas went up or down. Economic topics are what goes across backyard fences, not what the Cubs, the Bears, the White Sox, the Blackhawks, or anything like that did or did not do.

 

I can also tell you that only 1 person proclaims they will vote for Obama next time; and that is out of the 9 who admitted they did last time. If Presidential votes are cast on pocketbook issues, Mr Obama has really off the reservation.

 

The 1 person who insists she will vote for him again is a middle aged grammar school teacher. No surprise there, until you understand that 2 of the other 9 that voted for him are also teachers and are going to throw him under the bus and vote for the republican candidate, no matter who it is. (their words, not mine)

 

I am retired, I work, and I own a small Mickey Mouse business to boot. I do ok; some would say better than ok. The people around me are not as diversified, and I am here to tell you, THEY ARE SCARED TO DEATH.

 

Perception becomes reality if you say it enough, because people start to believe it. I don't know what the reality is as I am not in their checkbooks or investments, but if words mean anything, nobody is going to buy much of anything they have to take a loan on around here, and that tells me the economy is again sliding into recession.

 

TRANSLATION--------->Obama is a 1 termer, and lets hope whomever replaces him........democrat or republican.........can turn this country around and give it confidence once more.

Thanks for the observations. I would have to agree with it. I live in an area where housing prices have been hit very hard, and the housing talk is discussed at least 2x a week. The home 2 doors down has been foreclosed on twice in the last four years. Construction has virtually stopped. My daughter is supposed to be in a new elementary school building, but the construction has haulted due to budget.

 

I don't know on the politics side. I know I'd like to see a politician who came out and said he only wants 1 term. I want someone who is not worried about paying back favors but gets the job done. I do think the economy will be the major theme of the election, with a huge focus on jobs and housing.

[FiredMotorCompany]

Thanks for the observations. I would have to agree with it. I live in an area where housing prices have been hit very hard, and the housing talk is discussed at least 2x a week. The home 2 doors down has been foreclosed on twice in the last four years. Construction has virtually stopped. My daughter is supposed to be in a new elementary school building, but the construction has haulted due to budget.

 

I don't know on the politics side.

 

I know I'd like to see a politician who came out and said he only wants 1 term. I want someone who is not worried about paying back favors but gets the job done.

(You are looking for a statesman. Altruistic, patriotic, honor bound, conscientious, brave enough to do what is the right thing, not just the popular thing, civic minded, suffers the job as politician for the service he can provide to his fellow citizen, looks forward to returning to private life, doesn't use his office to pad his own pockets and build his legacy in the community. Marginal......they are all dead. I have someone. He is a Marine, Eagle Scout, Christian young man who sets an example whenever he walks in the room.

He's my son-in-law. And I'm damned proud of him and his exemplary character.)

 

 

I do think the economy will be the major theme of the election, with a huge focus on jobs and housing.

[Aces]

A ton of info on America's finances in this article

 

And lots of info about who has been lying about the subject.

 

http://crooksandliars.com/jon-perr/gop-packs-debt-super-committee-with-tax-super-liars

[FiredMotorCompany]

A ton of info on America's finances in this article

 

And lots of info about who has been lying about the subject.

 

http://crooksandliar...tax-super-liars

 

Crooks and Liars........ the last name in Liars and the first name in Kooks Crooks.

[FiredMotorCompany]

Quote:

Obama Visits Corporation Where His Stimulus Created 'Green' Jobs at $2 Million Per Job Thursday, August 11, 2011

By Fred Lucas

President Barack Obama. (AP Photo/Carolyn Kaster)

 

(CNSNews.com) – President Barack Obama on Thursday toured a vehicle battery plant in Michigan, touting his administration's focus on green technology and jobs, at a corporation where federal money authorized by the economic stimulus law that Obama signed at the beginning of his presidency had created "green" jobs at a cost of about $2 million in federal subsidies per job.

 

End Quote.

 

 

 

 

There's the Crooks and Liars for ya. Straight from Washington, D.C. of course his campaign isn't paying for this PR trip. He's there to promote the Federal Stimulus plan and it's success.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

$2 million per job created!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited August 12, 2011 by FiredMotorCompany

[Aces]

Quote:

Obama Visits Corporation Where His Stimulus Created 'Green' Jobs at $2 Million Per Job Thursday, August 11, 2011

By Fred Lucas

President Barack Obama. (AP Photo/Carolyn Kaster)

(CNSNews.com) – President Barack Obama on Thursday toured a vehicle battery plant in Michigan, touting his administration's focus on green technology and jobs, at a corporation where federal money authorized by the economic stimulus law that Obama signed at the beginning of his presidency had created "green" jobs at a cost of about $2 million in federal subsidies per job.

End Quote.

There's the Crooks and Liars for ya. Straight from Washington, D.C. of course his campaign isn't paying for this PR trip. He's there to promote the Federal Stimulus plan and it's success.

$2 million per job created!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Well you did not post a source for your quote but I see why.

 

Here is the article

 

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/obama-touts-battery-powered-cars-michiga

 

It says that the stimulus money triggered a huge investment in Michigan and another plant is going up in Ohio.

 

So far it has created hundreds of construction jobs and 150 jobs so far in the first of the plants.

 

 

 

So liars figure and figures lie....as always.

 

The article you stole your quote from also had this video.

 

 

I guess you did not want us to see this?

[FiredMotorCompany]

LOL. He's all those things and a Marine? Sorry i can't believe it. Not the Marine thing. Last time i hung with a groups of Marines they were all getting article 14's for damaging government property.

(We train them to break things and kill people. I sure don't want my country defended by the likes of those who think keeping score at a soccer game was too much negative influence.)

 

Somehow the decided that crushing beer cans on their foreheads wasn't tough enough and went to Mad Dog 40/40 and wine bottles. I drove 3 of them to the hospital for stitches and that began their tale of WOE. They were all future candidates for the Darwin awards.

 

I bet your son in-law is a great guy and all, but a Marine... got to draw the line somewhere.

(I stood before both families at the rehearsal dinner and told them that I admired him for his character and devotion to God, family and country. And how he was the man I had always hoped our daughter would find.)

(Had to get him married off. My wife was threatening to marry him if her daughter did not. )

 

Please thank him for his service all kidding aside.

[FiredMotorCompany]

I can dig that.

 

A little inter-service rivalry is good for the troops and us back at home too.

 

That's okay. Not everyone can be a Marine.

 

 

ZING!

[Aces]

Some good economic data here.

 

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/12/do-congress-and-the-white-house-deserve-an-aa-rating/

 

"There now appears to be general agreement that the downgrade issued a week ago by Standard & Poor’s on the “Political Risks and Rising Debt Burden” of long-term United States debt was not a statement on the probability of default on Treasury bonds at all. Instead, it appears to have been intended as a reminder that something has gone seriously wrong with the style of governance put in place by the Founding Fathers.

 

Whether the current style of federal governance deserves the second highest grade S.&P. assigns (AA+) can, of course, be debated. I would be more inclined toward a plain B rating, that is, the governance equivalent of a junk bond.

 

Be that as it may, one manifestation of the decay in the federal style of governance has been the discovery that American voters can be pleased by providing them with a growing array of government services and financial transfers and by underwriting these with deferred taxes — that is, current deficits. The deferred taxes are to be paid off by generations not yet born or still too young to vote.

 

In the words of Doug Elmendorf, current director of the Congressional Budget Office, in a presentation last year, “The United States faces a fundamental disconnect between the services that people expect the government to provide, particularly the benefits for older Americans, and the tax revenues that people are willing to send to the government to finance those services.”"

[longball]

Is there any way that the people who have paid in all their lives can be assured they will get what they paid for....why should these people get screwed? Maybe the benefit amount should be based on what you actually paid into the program.....let everyone who is using more bennies then they paid for should take a cut....and get help from somewhere else or somebody else.

[Marginal Economist]

In the words of Doug Elmendorf, current director of the Congressional Budget Office, in a presentation last year, “The United States faces a fundamental disconnect between the services that people expect the government to provide, particularly the benefits for older Americans, and the tax revenues that people are willing to send to the government to finance those services.”"

 

I love that quote - and I think this is where the major differences are between the political parties. To correct this imbalance, both taxes are going to have to give.

[Marginal Economist]

Quick thought on food subsidies and the independent farmers - could they form a giant co-op? They could use their capital and numbers to create a higher price floor for their crops and increase margins. Prices may go up marginally, but likely the supermarkets couldn't raise prices much - they would just have to have smaller markups. Would this work and is it a good idea?

[Aces]

Quick thought on food subsidies and the independent farmers - could they form a giant co-op? They could use their capital and numbers to create a higher price floor for their crops and increase margins. Prices may go up marginally, but likely the supermarkets couldn't raise prices much - they would just have to have smaller markups. Would this work and is it a good idea?

 

 

Sounds like a cartel....like OPEC.

 

Or a trust.....anti competitive and illegal.

 

 

Canada has this type of thing...they call it marketing boards.....the prices for dairy products are way higher in Canada.

 

 

Also, supermarket markups on food items are very low now...they make their money on all of the other crap they try to sell you.

Edited August 14, 2011 by Aces

[FiredMotorCompany]

Sounds like a cartel....like OPEC.

 

Or a trust.....anti competitive and illegal.

 

 

Canada has this type of thing...they call it marketing boards.....the prices for dairy products are way higher in Canada.

 

 

Also, supermarket markups on food items are very low now...they make their money on all of the other crap they try to sell you.

 

YEAH, Canada!

 

Let's mimic Canada. They even have free health care for all. See, it works there. The Canadians have everything we in America wants.

 

 

 

Or, let's not.

[Marginal Economist]

Sounds like a cartel....like OPEC.

 

Or a trust.....anti competitive and illegal.

 

 

Canada has this type of thing...they call it marketing boards.....the prices for dairy products are way higher in Canada.

 

 

Also, supermarket markups on food items are very low now...they make their money on all of the other crap they try to sell you.

 

If they formed a co-op they could set a price floor for crops and require certain levels of food be purchased. As the economy grows, they could increase the pricing. The co-op could purchase health insurance as a group so that individual farmers and their families don't have to pay so much for individual plans on the open market. The could take some of the increased margins and put it into a slush fund to help when their is a bad crop season or if a farmer is sick or injured. They could raise their prices 20% to companies like General Mills and Kroger. Put 5% into a slush fund under the non profit co-op so they don't have to pay taxes and collect the additional 15% as profit.

 

If we increase the income of farmers, they are more likely to stay in business. If they can make more money farming, they are less likely to sell their land to commercial and residential developers. This will help raise the prices of existing homes or at least raise the pricing on new construction.

[Aces]

Quick thought on food subsidies and the independent farmers - could they form a giant co-op? They could use their capital and numbers to create a higher price floor for their crops and increase margins. Prices may go up marginally, but likely the supermarkets couldn't raise prices much - they would just have to have smaller markups. Would this work and is it a good idea?

 

 

Sounds like a cartel....like OPEC.

 

Or a trust.....anti competitive and illegal.

 

 

Canada has this type of thing...they call it marketing boards.....the prices for dairy products are way higher in Canada.

 

 

Also, supermarket markups on food items are very low now...they make their money on all of the other crap they try to sell you.

 

 

YEAH, Canada!

 

Let's mimic Canada. They even have free health care for all. See, it works there. The Canadians have everything we in America wants.

 

 

 

Or, let's not.

 

 

You really cannot read and understand can you?

 

I was saying that they do this in Canada and it creates higher prices...so why do it here.

 

DUH!

 

Perhaps we can get it on the radio for you.

Edited August 14, 2011 by Aces

[FiredMotorCompany]

You really cannot read and understand can you?

 

I was saying that they do this in Canada and it creates higher prices...so why do it here.

 

DUH!

 

Perhaps we can get it on the radio for you.

 

That's funny.

 

How long have you and I conversed here and you thought I was agreeing with the Canadian way?

 

Do I need to clarify and explain how to interpret my last sentence for you?

 

"Or, let's not."

[Aces]

That's funny.

 

How long have you and I conversed here and you thought I was agreeing with the Canadian way?

 

Do I need to clarify and explain how to interpret my last sentence for you?

 

"Or, let's not."

 

 

Too dumb to understand and too stubborn to admit it.

 

Typical right winger.

 

Wiggle wiggle ....but it is obvious you can't read and understand.

 

 

Too funny.

[FiredMotorCompany]

Too dumb to understand and too stubborn to admit it.

 

Typical right winger.

 

Wiggle wiggle ....but it is obvious you can't read and understand.

 

 

Too funny.

 

Hey, Cluelass Clueless.

 

I am not in support of the Canadian way. I was mocking your support of Obamacare because it emulated Canada's system.

 

 

Since you cannot follow the concept of sarcasm, I'll tell you plain and simple...

 

This is the United States. I do not think we should adopt their health care system OR their farm market system.

 

Try to keep up.

[Aces]

Quick thought on food subsidies and the independent farmers - could they form a giant co-op? They could use their capital and numbers to create a higher price floor for their crops and increase margins. Prices may go up marginally, but likely the supermarkets couldn't raise prices much - they would just have to have smaller markups. Would this work and is it a good idea?

 

 

Sounds like a cartel....like OPEC.

 

Or a trust.....anti competitive and illegal.

 

 

Canada has this type of thing...they call it marketing boards.....the prices for dairy products are way higher in Canada.

 

 

Also, supermarket markups on food items are very low now...they make their money on all of the other crap they try to sell you.

 

 

YEAH, Canada!

 

Let's mimic Canada. They even have free health care for all. See, it works there. The Canadians have everything we in America wants.

 

 

 

Or, let's not.

 

 

You really cannot read and understand can you?

 

I was saying that they do this in Canada and it creates higher prices...so why do it here.

 

DUH!

 

Perhaps we can get it on the radio for you.

 

 

That's funny.

 

How long have you and I conversed here and you thought I was agreeing with the Canadian way?

 

Do I need to clarify and explain how to interpret my last sentence for you?

 

"Or, let's not."

 

 

Too dumb to understand and too stubborn to admit it.

 

Typical right winger.

 

Wiggle wiggle ....but it is obvious you can't read and understand.

 

 

Too funny.

 

 

Hey, Cluelass Clueless.

 

I am not in support of the Canadian way. I was mocking your support of Obamacare because it emulated Canada's system.

 

 

Since you cannot follow the concept of sarcasm, I'll tell you plain and simple...

 

This is the United States. I do not think we should adopt their health care system OR their farm market system.

 

Try to keep up.

 

 

You do have a real talent for displaying your ignorance and inability to read.

 

Of course some here will remember your treatise on small business and taxes....or your phantom $380 million program of the federal government that only existed in your head.....or....I guess that is enough.

 

Try not to interrupt when others are talking ....when you obviously cannot understand the conversation...it just makes you look stupid.

[FiredMotorCompany]

You do have a real talent for displaying your ignorance and inability to read.

 

Of course some here will remember your treatise on small business and taxes....or your phantom $380 million program of the federal government that only existed in your head.....or....I guess that is enough.

 

Try not to interrupt when others are talking ....when you obviously cannot understand the conversation...it just makes you look stupid.

 

Keep quoting. You are only displaying your inability to see the obvious.

[Aces]

If they formed a co-op they could set a price floor for crops and require certain levels of food be purchased. As the economy grows, they could increase the pricing. The co-op could purchase health insurance as a group so that individual farmers and their families don't have to pay so much for individual plans on the open market. The could take some of the increased margins and put it into a slush fund to help when their is a bad crop season or if a farmer is sick or injured. They could raise their prices 20% to companies like General Mills and Kroger. Put 5% into a slush fund under the non profit co-op so they don't have to pay taxes and collect the additional 15% as profit.

 

If we increase the income of farmers, they are more likely to stay in business. If they can make more money farming, they are less likely to sell their land to commercial and residential developers. This will help raise the prices of existing homes or at least raise the pricing on new construction.

 

 

You seem to think that agriculture subsidies are a device to make food more affordable.

 

I believe they are an export subsidy....they were greatly boosted during the Reagan administration in order to help the international balance of payments situation.

 

Most of the price adjustments as a result of subsidies affect the price of bulk goods...there is little or no impact on food prices.

 

They make American Agribusiness the big player in international sales... but the price of a ton of wheat only has a small impact on the price of a loaf of bread because there are so many other inputs.

 

So I believe our tax dollars are being used to help giant agribusinesses ...not American consumers or even family farmers.

[Marginal Economist]

You seem to think that agriculture subsidies are a device to make food more affordable.

 

I believe they are an export subsidy....they were greatly boosted during the Reagan administration in order to help the international balance of payments situation.

 

Most of the price adjustments as a result of subsidies affect the price of bulk goods...there is little or no impact on food prices.

 

They make American Agribusiness the big player in international sales... but the price of a ton of wheat only has a small impact on the price of a loaf of bread because there are so many other inputs.

 

So I believe our tax dollars are being used to help giant agribusinesses ...not American consumers or even family farmers.

 

I don't think subsidies affect the price of food. I think the reason that politicians say they give subsidies is to help the family farmer. I don't think that subsidies end up in family farms. I do think they end up in the hands of giant agricultural corporations.

 

The question was would a giant co-op that could change market pricing for family farmers be better than a subsidy system? If the farmers could pool their goods and sell then for 20% more than the market would that help sustain American farming? The money that was given in subsidies could be redistributed through food stamps or lunch vouchers.

[FiredMotorCompany]

Obama Ag Secretary Vilsack: Food Stamps Are A "Stimulus"

 

Quote:

---

Obama's Secretary of Agriculture Tom Vilsack: "Well, obviously, it's putting people to work. Which is why we're going to have some interesting things in the course of the forum this morning. Later this morning, we're going have a press conference with Secretary Mavis and Secretary Chu to announce something that's never happened in this country -- something that we think is exciting in terms of job growth. I should point out, when you talk about the SNAP program or the foot stamp program, you have to recognize that it's also an economic stimulus. Every dollar of SNAP benefits generates $1.84 in the economy in terms of economic activity. If people are able to buy a little more in the grocery store, someone has to stock it, package it, shelve it, process it, ship it. All of those are jobs. It's the most direct stimulus you can get in the economy during these tough times."

---

 

You've got to read between the lines.

 

Every dollar of SNAP results in $1.84 in economic activity? Imagine if that same dollar had remained in the earners pocket. It would have resulted int $1.84 in economic activity AND provided food for the family of the guy that worked for it.

 

Additionally, what was the overhead costs of income tax calculation, payment , collection, management, distribution, management, allocation, management, verification, management, accountability, management, acquisition, management, delivery, management, utilization, collections, management, record keeping, management, reporting, management........................................

 

Marginal Economist. For every dollar spent by the end user as SNAP, how many dollars were collected? I know it's not $1 in $1 out as SNAP. More like $1.85 in for $1.00 out then possibly $1.84 in economic activity.

 

I suspect the income/out go efficiency is far from 100%. Though I doubt the IRS could untangle this web of mis-direction and obfuscation.