Ford Motor Company July 2011 Sales Up 9%

[aneekr]

Looks like Ford Mo. Co. gained back those supposedly 'lost' Mercury customers.

In retrospect, Ford's decision last year to swiftly kill the Mercury brand turned out to be a very wise (and relatively painless) one.

[Edstock]

In retrospect, Ford's decision last year to swiftly kill the Mercury brand turned out to be a very wise (and relatively painless) one.

It might be 10 years from now, but maybe one day there will be a new Mercury, but as a model name, like it originally was. A Lincoln Mercury? A Ford Mercury?

[NickF1011]

Oh wow, no way! The old, outdated, dumb boxy escape is sellings tons, WOWWWwwwwww

 

As 2005Explorer said, it's because the Escape still offers a good value proposition. It's outdated, but not woefully outdated. I mean it's not like a Panther or something....yet. If they gave it a few more years with no significant changes though, you can bet that they would cede the market to newer competitors.

[jpd80]

It might be 10 years from now, but maybe one day there will be a new Mercury, but as a model name, like it originally was. A Lincoln Mercury? A Ford Mercury?

 

I keep wondering whether if in a better financial position Ford would have kept Mercury, I believe that given a full product line from

Fiesta (Laser) through to Sable, Mariner, Edge and Explorer... oh and Cougar, Mercury would have done fine and added

significant volume to Ford's existing plants......never mind, let's hope Ford really benefited from this...

Edited August 2, 2011 by jpd80

[silvrsvt]

Cherokee > Liberty seems like a somewhat apt comparison on a lot of levels. However, I wouldn't really say the Cherokee was still successful by the time it was axed. Its sales had definitely fallen on rough times.

 

Let's also remember, from Ford's perspective, there's more to it than simple sales figures as well. It's almost a given that ATP's on the next gen Escape will be higher than they are on the current model.

 

The Cherokee was a dinosaur when it was finally was replaced. It came out in 1984 and was finally replaced in 2001...not to mention it was pretty rough...rear seat space was non-existent. The reason it sold was because it was cheap...things could have been very different for Jeep if they updated it or gave it more creature comforts considering that the Explorer didn't come out for another 5 years or so after it came on the market and the Explorer became the 800lb gorilla of the 1990s and early 2000 when it came to sales.

 

I wouldn't discount the pricing on the new Escape...a decently equipped XLT (Sync, Moon Roof and a V6) already lists at 27-28K. A fully loaded Limited is $34K with everything. The Escape has everything outside of My Ford Touch on it already that would be coming out in a new Product...this isn't the same situation that the Focus had...the Focus was trying to cover B Car pricing with C car....there was plenty of room for a 29K Focus Titanium considering most of the Focus sales are SEL or SE's. I have a hard time thinking that a Escape Titanium will list out at 40K plus, which is the same pricing for a Edge Sport....

[ANTAUS]

I would say my conversation with my Lincoln sales guy was pretty accurate that I happened to mention some months ago. I asked him what vehicles are the Cocoon crowd buying now that the GM and TC have been killed, and he stated that they prefer the MKZ, instead of the MKS because the little Lincoln has better sight lights for them. The window sills are a bit lower...and if that doesn't work for them (because of price), then the Escape happens to be their next vehicle of choice. SO I would say much of that Escape and little Lincoln numbers are from the older sect. I asked why wont they go for the MKS and he mentioned that the higher sight lights, poor rear visibility, and small front window makes them feel as if they are in a bathtub and they don't care too much for that.

 

Focus issues need to be resolved quickly....

 

Then we have the TownCar which even if the coffin has been lowered and dirt is being piled on it is still selling better than the, hm....uh...the Pink elephant in the room... :rolleyes:

[2005Explorer]

I wouldn't discount the pricing on the new Escape...a decently equipped XLT (Sync, Moon Roof and a V6) already lists at 27-28K. A fully loaded Limited is $34K with everything. The Escape has everything outside of My Ford Touch on it already that would be coming out in a new Product...this isn't the same situation that the Focus had...the Focus was trying to cover B Car pricing with C car....there was plenty of room for a 29K Focus Titanium considering most of the Focus sales are SEL or SE's. I have a hard time thinking that a Escape Titanium will list out at 40K plus, which is the same pricing for a Edge Sport....

 

That's the thing I don't get. The current Escape is priced well compared to it's competition, but it is not exactly cheap. Some people claim that Ford is going to be able to price the next generation Escape thousands more and still sell almost as many. They might be able to price it a little higher, but if they start to run it deep into Edge territory in pricing then it is going to flop. The fact is this vehicle is still going to have to make it's money on volume not profit per unit as Lincoln or another high end vehicle line does. Now I suppose you can add a $38-40K Escape Titanium to the line up, but I'd rather step up to an Edge or Explorer for that kind of money.

 

Exactly. Which means Ford isn't making a lot of money on them. It's also a North American platform not shared by other vehicles. The new one will be more premium with more equipment and higher ATPs AND it will have more volume because it will be sold globally. Even if the Escape by itself sells less, it can make a lot more money.

 

We get you don't like the new Escape and don't think it will be successful. They said the same thing about the new Explorer and they were dead wrong.

 

How do you know how much Ford is making on the Escape right now? The platform has long been paid for and the power train is closely shared with the Fusion. I bet they are doing pretty well especially on the higher XLT and Limited models. How do you know that the new Escape is going to make a lotmore money when it hasn't even been introduced yet?

 

Maybe some people said that the new Explorer wouldn't be successful, but I never did. The only Ford CUVs that I had doubts about was the Flex and MKT and it seems I was right about Ford never meeting their sales projections. As far as the Vertrek (dumb name I hope never sees production) is concerned... I honestly don't think it will be as successful as the Escape has been, but I will wait to see what the final product looks like and what sort of capability it will have.

Edited August 2, 2011 by 2005Explorer

[svtenthusiast]

They need to get this Focus inventory problem fixed fast. Very embarrassing to have one of the top vehicles in it's segment keep getting outsold by the Cruze. I wonder how many customers they have lost because the inventory levels and order wait time just plain suck.

Edited August 2, 2011 by svtenthusiast

[Mark B. Morrow]

Mustang suffered about an 800 unit loss to Camaro

 

 

I heard that the Camaro guys thought that having only one up on blocks in front of the trailer lacked a certain symmetry.

 

That may just be a rumour.

[fordmantpw]

I heard that the Camaro guys thought that having only one up on blocks in front of the trailer lacked a certain symmetry.

 

That may just be a rumour.

 

[Alex D.]

 

 

 

Really?

 

the sales have fallen off a cliff.

 

Many dealers have little to no supply of Focus. For example, Bill Brown in Livonia, MI (Ford's 2nd largest dealer by volume) usually has 100 Focus units, give or take 20 in stock at any time. They presently have THREE!!! It's the same story all across the nation. Galpin Ford in CA, Fords largest volume dealer, has FIVE in stock.

[timmm55]

Where are all the Lincoln gloom and doomers? 40% increase is fantastic!

[akirby]

They need to get this Focus inventory problem fixed fast. Very embarrassing to have one of the top vehicles in it's segment keep getting outsold by the Cruze. I wonder how many customers they have lost because the inventory levels and order wait time just plain suck.

 

Why is it embarrassing? Ford doesn't care as long as they're selling vehicles and making a good profit.

 

I ordered one on 5/31 and picked it up on 7/4. That's only 5 weeks.

[akirby]

How do you know how much Ford is making on the Escape right now? The platform has long been paid for and the power train is closely shared with the Fusion. I bet they are doing pretty well especially on the higher XLT and Limited models. How do you know that the new Escape is going to make a lotmore money when it hasn't even been introduced yet?

 

You don't understand how Ford can save a TON of money by having ONE platform for Escape and Kuga instead of two totally separate platforms?

You don't understand how a new modern vehicle can be sold with more options and with less rebates than an older vehicle?

 

Think about how much better off Ford would be if they did the 2012 Explorer 3 years ago. Keeping the current Escape for another product cycle would not have been good even if it's selling well now.

[BORG]

Glad to see the Lincoln MKX climbing strongly without the aid of incentives; the MKZ is a rebate queen so I'm not so shocked there. The Edge will get another boost with EcoBoost 2.0.

 

Ford isn't setting the market on fire with the Taurus and Fusion, but their Trucks and Crossovers are dominating. Fusion is going to have a hard time moving forward now that it's one of the more stale options available. It's going to be a long wait for that new one.

Edited August 3, 2011 by BORG

[Biker16]

Many dealers have little to no supply of Focus. For example, Bill Brown in Livonia, MI (Ford's 2nd largest dealer by volume) usually has 100 Focus units, give or take 20 in stock at any time. They presently have THREE!!! It's the same story all across the nation. Galpin Ford in CA, Fords largest volume dealer, has FIVE in stock.

 

 

I know,

 

Will someone from MAP tell us what the H is going on over there!

[2005Explorer]

You don't understand how Ford can save a TON of money by having ONE platform for Escape and Kuga instead of two totally separate platforms?

You don't understand how a new modern vehicle can be sold with more options and with less rebates than an older vehicle?

 

Think about how much better off Ford would be if they did the 2012 Explorer 3 years ago. Keeping the current Escape for another product cycle would not have been good even if it's selling well now.

 

First of all I doubt your an Escape customer (or will be one in the future) so value for the money doesn't mean much to you. There aren't a lot of rich people buying Escapes and I doubt that there are going to be a lot of rich people buying the next one either. The fact remains that Ford can't charge thousands more for a compact SUV like you try to say they can and still maintain any sort of volume. They probably can sell with less rebate, but honestly other then MyFordTouch how many more options can they add to the Escape? Hell the current Escape has more options then a lot of their more expensive vehicle lines. I'm not arguing the fact that the Escape shouldn't be redesigned because it is time, but I am arguing the fact that throwing the Escape deep into Edge pricing territory won't work even though it might be full of gee-whiz gadgets.

 

Ford didn't do the Explorer 3 years ago because they were focused on something called Flex. When the Flex didn't turn out like they hoped then they decided to bring a new Explorer to market. So yes your right... If they would have passed on the Flex (and MKT) 3 years ago and put their money and engineering resources into Explorer and a new Aviator they would be way better off now.

 

EDIT: I don't know if your rich or not, but you don't appear to be someone who would purchase an Escape so that is why I think you have a different concept of value for the money compared to Escape's target customers.

Edited August 3, 2011 by 2005Explorer

[fordmantpw]

Ford didn't do the Explorer 3 years ago because they were focused on something called Flex. When the Flex didn't turn out like they hoped then they decided to bring a new Explorer to market. So yes your right... If they would have passed on the Flex (and MKT) 3 years ago and put their money and engineering resources into Explorer and a new Aviator they would be way better off now.

 

So you think Ford didn't start on the new Explorer until after the Flex, that came out in '08, didn't burn up the sales charts? It was out , what 2.5 years before the Explorer? And say they gave the Flex a year to see how it did, that gives them 18 months to develop the Explorer?

 

Yeah, your crazy!

[2005Explorer]

So you think Ford didn't start on the new Explorer until after the Flex, that came out in '08, didn't burn up the sales charts? It was out , what 2.5 years before the Explorer? And say they gave the Flex a year to see how it did, that gives them 18 months to develop the Explorer?

 

Yeah, your crazy!

 

They didn't wait a year. The minute the Flex hit the market with a thud and was getting killed by the Lambdas I can promise they went to work on the Explorer. As we have been told with platform sharing vehicle development is much quicker and basically costs nothing so although they probably had starting doing some minor stuff with a new Explorer before the Flex was released I do believe that things were sped up quite a bit after the Flex launched. If the new Explorer was so critical then they should have been working on it instead of the Flex way back when Flex development started.

 

Your the one that is crazy thinking it takes years to develop a vehicle on a shared platform. It can be done fairly easily with little cost from what I have read around here.

Edited August 3, 2011 by 2005Explorer

[Moosetang]

Ford isn't setting the market on fire with the Taurus and Fusion, but their Trucks and Crossovers are dominating. Fusion is going to have a hard time moving forward now that it's one of the more stale options available. It's going to be a long wait for that new one.

Ford's moving nearly 20K Fusions a month, and the new one will probably hit spring/summer next year. I'm not seeing where the trouble lies.

[akirby]

First of all I doubt your an Escape customer (or will be one in the future) so value for the money doesn't mean much to you. There aren't a lot of rich people buying Escapes and I doubt that there are going to be a lot of rich people buying the next one either. The fact remains that Ford can't charge thousands more for a compact SUV like you try to say they can and still maintain any sort of volume. They probably can sell with less rebate, but honestly other then MyFordTouch how many more options can they add to the Escape? Hell the current Escape has more options then a lot of their more expensive vehicle lines. I'm not arguing the fact that the Escape shouldn't be redesigned because it is time, but I am arguing the fact that throwing the Escape deep into Edge pricing territory won't work even though it might be full of gee-whiz gadgets.

 

Really? 2012 Ford Focus vs. 2011 Ford Focus. I rest my case.

 

EDIT: I don't know if your rich or not, but you don't appear to be someone who would purchase an Escape so that is why I think you have a different concept of value for the money compared to Escape's target customers.

 

See, that's the problem. You think this is about what YOU want. It's not. It's not about what I want. It's about what will sell the best and make the most money for Ford GLOBALLY.

 

If you want to understand Ford's product decisions then you need to start thinking about it from their standpoint. Having cheap reliable transportation may benefit some buyers but it sure doesn't benefit Ford.

 

They didn't wait a year. The minute the Flex hit the market with a thud and was getting killed by the Lambdas I can promise they went to work on the Explorer.

 

Oh please. The Flex wasn't a replacement for the Explorer - if it was then why didn't they kill the old Explorer when the Flex came out? The Flex is an urban style statement. The Explorer is a totally different vehicle. They are 2 different vehicles for 2 different types of buyers.

 

You love the Escape so Ford shouldn't change it. You hate the Flex so Ford should have killed it long ago. I guess Ford product planners should just call you to see what they should build or not build.

[RichardJensen]

They didn't wait a year. The minute the Flex hit the market with a thud and was getting killed by the Lambdas I can promise they went to work on the Explorer. As we have been told with platform sharing vehicle development is much quicker and basically costs nothing so although they probably had starting doing some minor stuff with a new Explorer before the Flex was released I do believe that things were sped up quite a bit after the Flex launched. If the new Explorer was so critical then they should have been working on it instead of the Flex way back when Flex development started.

 

Your the one that is crazy thinking it takes years to develop a vehicle on a shared platform. It can be done fairly easily with little cost from what I have read around here.

 

You're wrong.

 

1 - even with shared platforms you're looking at ~$200M for a new vehicle (in tooling alone), plus significant engineering costs. They aren't free.

 

2 - it does take "years" to develop a new vehicle off a shared platform, Ford's current target is 2-1/2 to 3 years from green light to job 1.

 

3 - The Flex was greenlighted in 2005, and the Explorer was probably greenlighted in 2007 when it became clear that the Taurus X just wasn't cutting it.

 

Remember that the Freestyle/Taurus X were assembled in Chicago and the Flex in OAC. Were the Flex intended as the Freestyle/Taurus X replacement, it would have literally replaced them at Chicago, instead it was programmed into OAC as 'bonus volume'.

 

Again, and I cannot stress this enough: Chicago was not a viable plant with only the Taurus & MKS. Additional volume was needed and additional volume was planned: The Explorer.

 

And, once again, to stress this point yet a third time: The Explorer is clearly, clearly, a response to the failure of the Taurus X, not the failure of the Flex.

 

Again, to argue this point from yet another perspective: If the Explorer were intended to replace the Flex, or as a response to the failure of the Flex, it would've been slotted into the Flex's space at OAC.

 

Please try to look at this from a holistic perspective---from budgeting to manufacturing to marketing, instead of binning stuff based on what you see on car lots and on highways.

Edited August 3, 2011 by RichardJensen

[fordmantpw]

Your the one that is crazy thinking it takes years to develop a vehicle on a shared platform. It can be done fairly easily with little cost from what I have read around here.

 

Wow...really? You don't think it takes years?

 

Easier and less expensive than a totally new platofrm. Easily and with little cost? It's all relative.

[2005Explorer]

Having cheap reliable transportation may benefit some buyers but it sure doesn't benefit Ford.

 

The Flex is an urban style statement. The Explorer is a totally different vehicle. They are 2 different vehicles for 2 different types of buyers.

 

You love the Escape so Ford shouldn't change it. You hate the Flex so Ford should have killed it long ago. I guess Ford product planners should just call you to see what they should build or not build.

 

Then why don't they kill all base and mid level models? It seems like it doesn't benefit them so they should put all of their focus on upper level loaded models only.

 

It might be an urban style statement, but it appears that a lot more people prefer the more outdoorsy image of the Explorer. So that is why I think taking the Escape from a more outdoorsy image to an urban style statement will be a mistake. The Escape has been very successful throughout it's entire model run. The Flex... well you can draw your own conclusions on it's success. It sure hasn't aged well since sales have really fallen off after just a few years on the market.

 

This is looking off my back deck so maybe that is why I have different likes in vehicle styling then the rest of you do. It's easy to say what I like doesn't matter, but then you also have to say it doesn't matter what anyone wants only what Ford thinks they want. Yeah I know the whole Henry Ford quote about wanting a faster horse, but you know it does matter what customers (including me) want.

 

Richard you should know what that peak in the middle is called.

Edited August 3, 2011 by 2005Explorer

[RichardJensen]

it does matter what customers (including me) want.

 

Richard you should know what that peak in the middle is called.

Yeah, but at the same time, you can render any product (be it a vehicle, a comic book, or a political party) broadly unappealing by catering too heavily to your most loyal customers.

 

And I spent a weekend in February a little to the right of that peak.... :D

Edited August 3, 2011 by RichardJensen