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Report: new Ford Falcon for 2008


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LINK: http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/car-review/1823069.aspx

 

 

Ford limbers up to take on VE

Words - Gautam Sharma

 

The imminent launch of the VE Commodore spells trouble for Ford... Doesn’t it?

 

Mitsubishi last year launched its all-new 380, while Holden and Toyota are about to plough into the large-car stoush with the VE Commodore and Aurion respectively.

 

You don't need to be a rocket scientist to deduce that this leaves Ford with the toughest challenge, as it must wage battle with what will soon be the oldest contender in the segment.

 

The current BF Falcon is an update of the BA, which itself was derived from the 1998 AU. Its all-new replacement -- known internally as Orion -- is not expected until 2008, which means the existing package (or at least the guts of it) must soldier on for another two years.

 

Be that as it may, the blue oval is presenting a confident front.

 

"We're not apprehensive in the slightest [at the VE's imminent launch]," says Ford spokesperson Sinead McAlary. "We have the best engineered vehicle in the large-car category, particularly after the upgrades that came with the BF."

 

These sentiments are echoed -- at least to some degree -- by the CEO of fleet risk management company SurePlan Australia, Tony Robinson.

 

Says Robinson: "Ford has the best Falcon it's ever had [in BF form], and fleets think so too, based on the car's dynamics and operating costs," he says.

 

McAlary believes the marketing activity that will coincide with the launch of the VE may actually help Ford by generating renewed public interest in the large-car segment.

 

However, this doesn't mean Ford plans to sit on its hands while the VE Commodore (for CarPoint's exclusive scoop images of the new VE click here) gathers sales momentum.

 

"We got a lot of attention when we launched the BF, and we've got some activities planned that will help keep things fresh and exciting," says McAlary.

 

The BF was an "engineering upgrade" (rather than a visual one), according to McAlary, "as our customers told us the Falcon still looked fresh at the time."

 

So can we expect the next Falcon update -- which may arrive towards the end of this year or in early 2007 -- will bring some clearly discernible visual changes? Don't bet against it…

 

Resale values are also a key consideration, and McAlary says Ford will be doing what it can to ensure Falcon residuals don't suffer.

 

"Mitsubishi made a drastic price move with the 380 recently (CarPoint news: entry-level 380 pricing dropped by about $6500 ), but we won't follow that," says McAlary. "We'll pick and choose which price movements we try and match."

 

"It will be crucial for Ford to try and boost resale value and keep marketing campaigns below the radar," says Robinson. "The more money it throws up front [in order to woo buyers], the more it will impact on resale values.

 

"Ford will need to target fleet customers individually to keep marketing activity away from the public eye."

 

Further down the track, it's believed the all-new 2008 Falcon's styling will draw inspiration from Ford Europe's Iosis concept (pictured), which debuted at last September's Frankfurt motor show.

 

It's believed the next-gen Falcon will use an evolution of the 4.0-litre 'Barra' inline six that powers the current car, and its physical dimensions are expected to be much the same as they are now. Suspension refinements may include the adoption of the Territory's 'virtual pivot' front suspension in lieu of the existing double A-arms.

 

The car will be designed to be compatible with left- and right-hand-drive formats to boost its credentials as an export proposition.

 

Holden and Toyota have been exporting left-hand-drive cars to the Middle East and Asia (among other markets) for several years, but Ford has yet to go down this route. It could be critical, especially as the local large-car segment isn't generating anywhere near the volumes it did four or five years ago.

 

It looks like the RWD architecture will be ready earlier than predicted ... if the platform is ready in late 2008, that means the car will only be 2 years behind the Holdens .. not as bad as was reported previously...

 

Plus with these cars coming in 2009 or so, the future of Panthers is becoming clearer. Since Ford promissed to keep the Panthers in production up to 2010, this will come just in time to replace it.

 

ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS: I found this article through auto-future.blogspot.com

Igor

Edited by igor
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Yeah, I think a global RWD platform will be Ford's answer to the problem. The thing is will Dodge really make such a big dent in the police market? If the Crown Victoria continues to be the pursuit standard, then Ford effectively will start from scratch in convincing those fleet buyers dedicated to the CVPI durability and reliability.

 

If the next generation Falcon platform will be developed with left-hand drive in mind, Ford's future RWD sedan for North America has likely been established and that will be accomplished with the Falcon.

 

What does this mean for Mercury, however? Will Mercury get their own version or will Mercury depend solely on Montego? I think in all likelihood, it will be the later and a RWD V8 Mercury sedan will be passed over and only Ford will get the Falcon.

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Yeah, I think a global RWD platform will be Ford's answer to the problem. The thing is will Dodge really make such a big dent in the police market? If the Crown Victoria continues to be the pursuit standard, then Ford effectively will start from scratch in convincing those fleet buyers dedicated to the CVPI durability and reliability.

 

If the next generation Falcon platform will be developed with left-hand drive in mind, Ford's future RWD sedan for North America has likely been established and that will be accomplished with the Falcon.

 

What does this mean for Mercury, however? Will Mercury get their own version or will Mercury depend solely on Montego? I think in all likelihood, it will be the later and a RWD V8 Mercury sedan will be passed over and only Ford will get the Falcon.

 

I think Ford needs a halo-flagship performance sedan - the D3 is a reat platofrm for mainstram "appliance" sedan for the masses - but Ford and Lincoln, could use a medium-low volume RWD performance sedan really focused on a segment of BMW-MB market - and on Cop market.

 

Igor

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LINK: http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/car-review/1823069.aspx

It looks like the RWD architecture will be ready earlier than predicted ... if the platform is ready in late 2008, that means the car will only be 2 years behind the Holdens .. not as bad as was reported previously...

 

Plus with these cars coming in 2009 or so, the future of Panthers is becoming clearer. Since Ford promissed to keep the Panthers in production up to 2010, this will come just in time to replace it.

 

ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS: I found this article through auto-future.blogspot.com

Igor

 

Well, I'll say it again....

 

The Falcon is way over hyped on this bulletin board. It's not nearly the vehicle some think it is. They are hungering for a new RWD US entry (undesrtandable) and listening to auto magazine hype (they should know better by now).

 

If you read the Ford announcements carefully, it is apparent that the new Falcon is simply another update and not an all new platform. According to the head of FoA PD, they will keep the rear end and suspension, and maybe modify the front. They will keep their ancient and tall I6 which dictates the front end proportions. FoA will try to increase exports and will possibly do LHD as part of the program to help achieve this goal, but no program has been slated for the US coming from Australia.

 

I see absolutely no reason why the Falcon would form the basis for any vehicles produced in NA. Everybody take a deep breath. If it was your money, would you build an expensive new assembly facilty to produce a dated platform? Shipping components from Australia is not cost efficient so component savings aren't a big deal either.

 

I'm not saying that Ford US won't eventually have a RWD unibody platform. But I see very little reason why Falcon would form the basis. It's going to make more sense for Ford US to borrow what they can from D2c (maybe not much), and create the rest new. This could even provide an opportunity to create an IRS that could slide underneath a freshened Mustang. But if this is the plan, it won't be cheap and I have no idea which assembly plant could handle this program.

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I think Ford needs a halo-flagship performance sedan - the D3 is a reat platofrm for mainstram "appliance" sedan for the masses - but Ford and Lincoln, could use a medium-low volume RWD performance sedan really focused on a segment of BMW-MB market - and on Cop market.

 

Igor

 

Igor-

hypothetical car...what would be your take on a revamped panther- think it could pull off 'the performance sedan'? just try to picture say a 67 XL fastback inspired shell- maybe with the hidden rear doorline of an rx8, or tip/slide van seats for rear access, the 3V 4.6 as std, maybe the 5.4 just for kicks...I think it could work, any 'sport' powertrain stuff could migrate to the copcar fleets too

perhaps keeping the stodgy old crown vic body available might be a plus- dont see why two shells couldnt run on the same line with a little forethought...whatta you think? or do you feel they'd be better to start new?

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Well, I'll say it again....

 

The Falcon is way over hyped on this bulletin board. It's not nearly the vehicle some think it is. They are hungering for a new RWD US entry (undesrtandable) and listening to auto magazine hype (they should know better by now).

 

If you read the Ford announcements carefully, it is apparent that the new Falcon is simply another update and not an all new platform. According to the head of FoA PD, they will keep the rear end and suspension, and maybe modify the front. They will keep their ancient and tall I6 which dictates the front end proportions. FoA will try to increase exports and will possibly do LHD as part of the program to help achieve this goal, but no program has been slated for the US coming from Australia.

 

I see absolutely no reason why the Falcon would form the basis for any vehicles produced in NA. Everybody take a deep breath. If it was your money, would you build an expensive new assembly facilty to produce a dated platform? Shipping components from Australia is not cost efficient so component savings aren't a big deal either.

 

I'm not saying that Ford US won't eventually have a RWD unibody platform. But I see very little reason why Falcon would form the basis. It's going to make more sense for Ford US to borrow what they can from D2c (maybe not much), and create the rest new. This could even provide an opportunity to create an IRS that could slide underneath a freshened Mustang. But if this is the plan, it won't be cheap and I have no idea which assembly plant could handle this program.

 

Over hyped? do you think?

take the current all new mustang for instance, it employs a rear suspension that for Aus classed as new when used the the xe falcon sedan way back in 1981! it uses strut front suspension to top it off.

Now the current updated bf falcon uses a new control blade rear suspension and double wishbone front suspension...so the carry over tweaked rear control blade suspension for the next generation falcon is not old...and the front suspension will be redesigned!

So who has the older tech? the crysler lx series vehicles beat the mustang for tech status when it comes to platform design and yes it all depends on how the manufactures tune there suspension designs...but would bet money on the fact that the Bf Falcon would flatten the current v6 mustang for handling dynamics...the faclon beat the Crysler 300c when it was compared locally.

The new mustang and falcon are good examples of how new and updated platforms can be handled if done right.

The Ba falcon is almost a new platform compared to the Au falcon it replaced in 2002, so stop claiming the platform is outdated...

The deck height may be high, but take a look at the handling dynamics of our local commodore and falcon...the falcon is the best handling RWD budget vehicle in the world, the commodore has a shorter and lighter all alloy 3.6 HF v6 and still doesn't handle as well, go figure.

Ford and Holden is Australia have become experts on using basics that are tuned and developed at level and budget no other manufacturer in the world has matched so far...

Remember the ovoid 1995 Tuarus cost to develop 3billion? our Ef falcon of the same time was 220millon, yet when compared locally the falcon won...hmmm money doesn't buy you engeneering talent!

You may not believe that using the current falcon platform would be a good basis for RWD in NA, but it would seem that the current offering is a little stale, compared to the competition...or that ford NA can't tune dynamics as well as the AUS product developers!

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Over hyped? do you think?

take the current all new mustang for instance, it employs a rear suspension that for Aus classed as new when used the the xe falcon sedan way back in 1981! it uses strut front suspension to top it off.

 

 

That 3-link rear suspension and strut front were enough to win the Mustang a Grand Am Cup GT Championship in its first year.

 

The 3-link is a proven rear end design. It's sturdy, stable, and allows for good geometry. As for the struts up front? BMW has been using MacPherson struts for ages. I don't hear anyone giving them a hard time about their "antiquated" suspension designs. Ford has been a pioneer in the development of the Mac strut, so who better to implement their use?

 

Heck, the Corvette still uses an inverted leaf spring!! :shrug:

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Over hyped? do you think?

take the current all new mustang for instance, it employs a rear suspension that for Aus classed as new when used the the xe falcon sedan way back in 1981! it uses strut front suspension to top it off.

Now the current updated bf falcon uses a new control blade rear suspension and double wishbone front suspension...so the carry over tweaked rear control blade suspension for the next generation falcon is not old...and the front suspension will be redesigned!

So who has the older tech? the crysler lx series vehicles beat the mustang for tech status when it comes to platform design and yes it all depends on how the manufactures tune there suspension designs...but would bet money on the fact that the Bf Falcon would flatten the current v6 mustang for handling dynamics...the faclon beat the Crysler 300c when it was compared locally.

The new mustang and falcon are good examples of how new and updated platforms can be handled if done right.

The Ba falcon is almost a new platform compared to the Au falcon it replaced in 2002, so stop claiming the platform is outdated...

The deck height may be high, but take a look at the handling dynamics of our local commodore and falcon...the falcon is the best handling RWD budget vehicle in the world, the commodore has a shorter and lighter all alloy 3.6 HF v6 and still doesn't handle as well, go figure.

Ford and Holden is Australia have become experts on using basics that are tuned and developed at level and budget no other manufacturer in the world has matched so far...

Remember the ovoid 1995 Tuarus cost to develop 3billion? our Ef falcon of the same time was 220millon, yet when compared locally the falcon won...hmmm money doesn't buy you engeneering talent!

You may not believe that using the current falcon platform would be a good basis for RWD in NA, but it would seem that the current offering is a little stale, compared to the competition...or that ford NA can't tune dynamics as well as the AUS product developers!

 

Sorry to cause offense (offence??). Slamming the Falcon was not the gist of my comments; it was whether the Falcon would form the basis for a RWD car in NA, and I stand by my initial assessment. Some further views:

 

Ford Australia has done a wonderful job updating the Falcon platform and the I6 over the years.

 

FoA has only a fraction of the engineers that Ford has in North America. The volumes for the Falcon platform are not large (around 100k), so generating the investment to fund product changes and improvements in the assembly plant has been tough. Market conditions have been tough. Ford management has decimated the work force during bad times. Falcon platform volumes are in decline, even with derivatives. The industrial base and auto industry in Australia is, of course, not nearly the size as the US, which reduces economies of scale and makes achieving lower prices for commodities difficult. Shipping to and from Australia is expensive.

 

Nevertheless, despite all of these cards stacked against them, FoA has managed to continue to produce and update a very competent RWD product. This is a product that works well in very tough Australian conditions (rough macadam and dirt roads) that cause other cars to show a lot of warts or fail completely. And if you want to tow a trailer, the Falcon does that too. FoA have developed very interesting performance derivatives at low cost to enhance the brand. They developed a new Ute. If only Ford US could copy the lean, hungry, positive attitude and love of automobiles present in FoA, maybe Ford would not be in the product and financial position it is today.

 

I'm not claiming that the D2c Mustang platform is technically advanced. It should have had IRS from the beginning, for instance. But the platform seems to be working for Mustang from a function and cost standpoint.

 

But I still don't see that using the updated next generation Falcon would result in much of any benefit if Ford is considering production of a new RWD sedan in NA. First, I am assuming the exterior styling would be unique. The engines would likely be V6/V8 so the tall I6 would not have to be accomodated, allowing more flexibility in styling so the front end would likely be all new. Maybe something could be borrowed from the rear, but I don't see the benefits as it is unlikely, for instance, that components would be shipped from Australia to the US. And Ford would have to invest in a new assembly facility in the US anyway. In addition, using Falcon would likely not allow any "backcasting" of benefits to the Mustang (for instance, a new rear structure/IRS). So, I just don't see it.

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I dont see why the next generation Falcon, can't be a combined engineering effort with FOA and produce 1 product that has interchangable components that can be tailored to different markets.

 

Importing this vehicles from AU wouldn't make much economic sense, and at the pricepoint expected, and for what it is, maybe Mexico might be an alternative and they could possibly export it there to other countries as well.

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That 3-link rear suspension and strut front were enough to win the Mustang a Grand Am Cup GT Championship in its first year.

 

The 3-link is a proven rear end design. It's sturdy, stable, and allows for good geometry. As for the struts up front? BMW has been using MacPherson struts for ages. I don't hear anyone giving them a hard time about their "antiquated" suspension designs. Ford has been a pioneer in the development of the Mac strut, so who better to implement their use?

 

Heck, the Corvette still uses an inverted leaf spring!! :shrug:

 

 

Ok guys...my point wasn't too clear...sorry

regardless of suspension design, the point i'm trying to make is some people focus on the rehash of the falcon platform, the truth is the platform is almost all new.

The falcon does use more technically advanced suspension design than the mustang, but as you guys have pointed out is does the job intended for the mustang perfectly.

My main point is the tuning of any suspension design is the critical job...the fact still remains that Ford NA still can't tune suspension like it can outside of ford NA and i don't understand why not??

theres nothing wrong with struts, but they aren't are durable as double wishbones.

When the charger and camaro are released do you guys think that the mustangs current rear suspension will be able to match the independant designs of its 2 primary rivals? i have fear it won't, ford did develop IRS for the mustangs current platform so obviously ford is thinking the same thing, that it will need the IRS to compete when fresher rivals hit the market.

Do you see BMW using 3 link rear ends? or the fact that the control balde IRS kills the falcons previous 4 whatts link solid axle design and that the jaguar xtype, volvo s40, maxda3, and ford focus use the same basic design.

The truth is cost comes into the tuning and development of suspension designs, ford NA just needs to fine tune some of there proven systems, and there getting there faster than ever.

 

I dont see why the next generation Falcon, can't be a combined engineering effort with FOA and produce 1 product that has interchangable components that can be tailored to different markets.

 

Importing this vehicles from AU wouldn't make much economic sense, and at the pricepoint expected, and for what it is, maybe Mexico might be an alternative and they could possibly export it there to other countries as well.

 

 

 

Exactly! like what GM has done with holden, bring better economy of scale...i do think that ford worldwide is starting to intergrate its entire operations with much better focus...time will tell.

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I dont see why the next generation Falcon, can't be a combined engineering effort with FOA and produce 1 product that has interchangable components that can be tailored to different markets.

 

Importing this vehicles from AU wouldn't make much economic sense, and at the pricepoint expected, and for what it is, maybe Mexico might be an alternative and they could possibly export it there to other countries as well.

 

 

That is how they did the original Falcon. Same basic car build to the specific needs of each market. The assembly lines work the same...unless they go the other way down under. :shrug:

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When the charger and camaro are released do you guys think that the mustangs current rear suspension will be able to match the independant designs of its 2 primary rivals? i have fear it won't, ford did develop IRS for the mustangs current platform so obviously ford is thinking the same thing, that it will need the IRS to compete when fresher rivals hit the market.

 

I PRAY Ford does NOT adopt an IRS for the Mustang, no matter what its competition goes to. Mustangs have always had solid axles out back and always should. The ride quality in the 05-06 Mustang is quite nice for the setup it has, and the solid axle lends MUCH more to the durability aspect which is important to MANY MANY Mustang buyers who will end up taking them to the drag strip. Ask anyone who drag races a 99-04 Cobra how much they like their IRS.

 

In addition, the current Mustang isn't exactly light. No matter how simplified of an IRS setup they end up cramming under there, they'd still see a significant weight gain because of it. The Mustang having a solid axle rear would actually be a SELLING POINT to me if the Camaro and Challenger are both loaded with independent setups. I'm not the only one either.

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IRS is for uppity magazine racers, who think everthing mags say is gospel. And they will never buy a Stang since it isn't foreign, anyway, so why bother for Mustang?

 

Some makers are going back to beam rear axles. In fact, VW may do so in the next generation Golf.

 

But, does anyone from the US even know what an Aussie Falcon is realy like? Ever driven one? Some look at stats and drool, but nver even touched a "dream car".

 

Better to have a car designed for US buyers. Look at how "successful" the Holden GTO was.

Edited by 630land
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IRS is for uppity magazine racers, who think everthing mags say is gospel. And they will never buy a Stang since it isn't foreign, anyway, so why bother?

 

Some makers are going back to beam rear axles. In fact, VW may do so in the next generation Golf.

 

well isn't there a difference between live axle and torsion beam?

 

Torsion beams have 1 big advantage in compacts like Golf or Civic (the EU Civic 5D still has TB) - they take much less space - allow for bigger trunk.. that is why they are so popular in european small cars - untill Focus came along and turned that marketupside down.

 

However I am a big supporter of IRS in small FWD/AWD cars - the ride is much smoother AND responsive with IRS than TB ... I do not race my car(s) - I just drive them sharply on the streets (especially on the twisties)... but my IRS has many many times proved worsthy of its weight and cost (IMO)

 

Igor

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I would like to see an IRS as optional, or at least available on a few specific models (GT500, a potential next generation SVO, etc). A proper and well designed IRs setup need not be significantly heavier than the 3 link setup back there now, and can be durable enough to handle whatever power that you throw at it.

 

Many complained that the IRS on the cobra didn't improve handling enough, but, they forget that platform rigidity plays a big part in how well an IRs can do for a car's handling. I suspect that with the much increased rigidity of the current mustang platform, an IRS will show a noticeable improvement in at the limit handling and will provide a noticeable improvement to daily ride quality on rough roads.

 

Will it cost do develop it and adapt the line to be flexible in that area, of course, but, with the volume that they are seeing, and with new competition on the horizon, it may be worth the investment. What would also be worth the investment? Lightening the vehicle some, and making some improvements in the powerplants as well. The 4.6L 3V is a great plant as is. It can be further improved to 320 HP and 340 lbs of torque while still retaining its ability to use regular unleaded gas with some additional technology thrown at it. its almost obvious that the base V6 will eventually be the duratec 35, so that's already slated for improvement. They need to use the all aluminum 5.4L 3V in a GT350 mustang. ~350-365 HP and 385-400 lbs of torque on a premium sipping 5.4L shouldn't be that hard to do.

 

What they have in the stang now is fine for TODAY's MARKET. In two to three years, there will be competition. My suggestions are for that time. If they start now, they will be well on their way by that time.

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