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Have you bought a Toyota yet? Seems like that is thething to do because everyone else is doing it. The new code for cool is buy a Toyota. The only bad thing...is Americans are notorious for getting tired of stuff after so long. Not saying Toyota is going anywhere, just that people get bored.

 

On a related note...Toyota sales are up 14% on the strength of their fuel efficient 4 cylinder and V6 front wheel drive cars. It is not their SUV or Pickups that are doing it.

 

Chrysler is down 13%...how is that possible??? But they have the HEMI and rear wheel drive???

 

Common I thought that huge V8 engines in full sized rear wheel drive cars is what everyone says Ford needs?????

 

Forget that...Ford is doing fine with their front wheel drive models...except...Five-Hundred needs a facelift and a Duratec 35 option. Fusion needs AWD and a Hybrid model and can we please get the C1 Focus? A new Focus would be HOT HOT HOT right now. Last, when is the Edge coming?

 

As far as mid and full sized SUV's. Only lower fuel prices will help those.

I have not bought a Toyota yet. Will shop them before my next purchase.

 

And the reason Fords' front drive models are doing well would be? Hint --same reason you gave for Toyotas'

increased sales.

 

New Focus would be hot? With $3.00 a gallon gas? What foresite!!

What you need is to plan more than a month at a time.

 

Chrysler sales are down partly due to the new models coming out.

They have a problem but not nearly as much as Ford and GM.

Chrysler sales.

 

http://www.allpar.com/forums/index.php?sho...mp;#entry679472

Edited by Bluecon
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I have not bought a Toyota yet. Will shop them before my next purchase.

 

And the reason Fords' front drive models are doing well would be? Hint --same reason you gave for Toyotas'

increased sales.

 

New Focus would be hot? With $3.00 a gallon gas? What foresite!!

What you need is to plan more than a month at a time.

 

Chrysler sales are down partly due to the new models coming out.

They have a problem but not nearly as much as Ford and GM.

Chrysler sales.

 

http://www.allpar.com/forums/index.php?sho...mp;#entry679472

 

Now Bluecon, we know that you feel everyone is doing a great job with their car and truck lines EXCEPT Ford. You do seem to get some enjoyment out of seeing Ford struggle. Will you be popping the cork off the champaign the day Ford closes it's doors? Look Ford has problems, but they are not going to be fixed in a day. They have some new models that seem to be selling fairly well. If the quality holds, which I have not heard any bad things quality wise, people will give these cars a chance if they are priced well and perform well.

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GM down 25% (although I know - Employee pricing)

Nissan down 19%

DCX down 13%

FoMoCo Down 7%

Honda FLAT

VW/Audi up 5.5%

Mazda up 8%

Toyota up 14%

 

Now how is Ford the worst of them all?

 

Edit More deep comparisons:

Ford: June 2004: 236,908

..........June 2005: 243,678

..........May 2006: 234,655;

..........June 2006: 226,250

 

FoMoCo Total: June 2004: 287,381

......................June 2005: 289,449

......................May 2006: 278,546

......................June 2006: 269,404

 

GM: June 2004 vehicle total: 380,267

.......June 2005 Vehicle total: 558,092 (Fire sale - Employee Pricing)

.......June 2006 vehicle total: 413,473

 

EDIT #2 Added honda

Edited by igor
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Hmm. Chrysler's got problems because they're waiting on new product coming out this year. Funny. Didn't Chrysler get the Commander AND the Charger AND the Caliber AND the Ram MegaCab this year (MY 2006)?

 

BTW, Ford dealers can't wait to get their hands on the Edge. DCX has NOTHING coming that has their dealers excited.

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"Chrysler is down 13%...how is that possible??? But they have the HEMI and rear wheel drive??? Com'on I thought that huge V8 engines in full sized rear wheel drive cars is what everyone says Ford needs?????"

 

LOL

 

According to a Systems Engineer and pals, all Ford needs is to put a 5.4 in the Panther, and put on more TV commercials. Because everyone watches the Big 3 Networks and never changes channels right? And every American is dying for a full size BOF car, but doesn't know they still exist since there are no 1 minute TV ads saying so, right?

 

Oh wait, it is not 1966!!! It is 2006!

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"Chrysler is down 13%...how is that possible??? But they have the HEMI and rear wheel drive??? Com'on I thought that huge V8 engines in full sized rear wheel drive cars is what everyone says Ford needs?????"

Y'know? nobody's saying that anymore. Not even Jerry Flint (at least not lately).

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"Chrysler is down 13%...how is that possible??? But they have the HEMI and rear wheel drive??? Com'on I thought that huge V8 engines in full sized rear wheel drive cars is what everyone says Ford needs?????"

 

LOL

 

According to a Systems Engineer and pals, all Ford needs is to put a 5.4 in the Panther, and put on more TV commercials. Because everyone watches the Big 3 Networks and never changes channels right? And every American is dying for a full size BOF car, but doesn't know they still exist since there are no 1 minute TV ads saying so, right?

 

Oh wait, it is not 1966!!! It is 2006!

 

You are correct - most people don't want those in their vehicles. That's why Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, etc. are doing so well. The question is whether Ford wants to find market niches they can dominate, or slug it out toe to toe with the above manufacturers.

 

BOF V-8 is a very profitable market niche if Ford knew how to manage such a product. Unfortunately they have decided to abandon niches, and slug it out toe to toe, which is hard to do when consumers much prefer Toyota and Honda to Ford in such market segments.

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Anyone notice they used a picture of the grille without the big silver bezel around the blue oval? Amazing how such a small detail makes such a big improvement in appearance. . .

 

 

I had to go back and look at the pic. You are absolutely right it looks much better without the bezel. Much cleaner. I hope they will keep that in mind for the 500/Freestyle update.

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Unfortunately they have decided to abandon niches, and slug it out toe to toe

That must be why Chrysler and GM are in such a hurry to completely exit the midsize segment.

 

Someone on this board loves to say you can't shrink your way to success. Exiting an incredibly important segment of the market just because you can't outsell the biggest players would be stupid beyond belief.

 

...

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How many people here have Firestone's on their vehicle now??? I would never purchase a product from the Bridgestone-Firestone Corporation after their history and believe it or not...it's a Japanese company. Wait a second...I thought only American companies did the wrong thing???

 

Firestone used to go to great lengths to deny their Japanese ownership at least here in the rust belt. Back in the early 1990s I worked on several product liability cases involving Firestone multi-piece truck rims. In the first one their counsel requested the Court issue a gag order against plaintiff's counsel from mentioning Bridgestone's ownership. That case settled. For the next one we listed the defendant as Firestone Tire a wholely owned subsidiary of Bridgestone of Japan. I thought their lawyer's head was going to explode! We settled that one too. The history of those rim cases was the best exemplar of corporate arrogance I have ever seen. They knew their product was killing people but the math of the profit vs cost of settlement dictated that they continue production.

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Like minivans and RWD cars? :doh:

If the Fairlane doesn't have sliding doors.......

 

As far as RWD cars are concerned... I do believe Ford still has the lion's share of that segment--if it IS a segment. 160k Mustangs and the same number of Panthers, gives you a total of 320k RWD cars a year, more than MB, BMW, Chrysler Group, GM, Lexus, etc.

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If the Fairlane doesn't have sliding doors.......

 

As far as RWD cars are concerned... I do believe Ford still has the lion's share of that segment--if it IS a segment. 160k Mustangs and the same number of Panthers, gives you a total of 320k RWD cars a year, more than MB, BMW, Chrysler Group, GM, Lexus, etc.

 

I still wouldn't consier RWD a mainstream mass segment .. it is a niche .. especially as sedans .. heck based on voulme anything outside BOF Trucks, BOF SUVs, CUV, minivans, midsize FWD sedan and compact FWD sedan is a niche ...

 

Igor

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There is one way for Ford to insure a gain in the market and pretty much send every one scrambleing in the U.S and that is get their Euro Diesels here ASAP.

 

The milage gains would off set the issues of owning larger cars which of course are more profitable.

Given the choice most people would rather own mid sized than compact or full size rather than Mid sized.

 

Give the cars the fuel milage of the segment below them and watch sales take off. A good chunk of the cars sold in Europe are diesels due to the price of fuel. Well folks were are headed in the same direction here.

 

The comapny that introduces a 240HP + Diesel mid sized that get 40mpg+ combined (it is already being done in europe) in NA will own the market. No hybreds none of that complicated shit. But a reliable Quite Clean Diesel car will sell like hot cakes. Even the most lame brained knows that diesels out last gas engines 2 or 3 to one.

 

 

Ford needs to quit goofing around, the diesel in the F150 is a step in right direction, no quit screwing around and get diesels in every thing. Form the focus to the ranger to Fusion to the 500 to the Panthers. Sales will increase as much as the fuel milage gains.

 

 

Who ever get to the gate in NA first on this one is gonna get rewarded big time.

 

 

Matthew

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There is one way for Ford to insure a gain in the market and pretty much send every one scrambleing in the U.S and that is get their Euro Diesels here ASAP.

Can't do it, too much NOx. Euro standards give diesels a break on NOx emissions because of their lower CO2 emissions.

 

If it were simply a matter of adding capacity to the Ford/PSA production lines....

 

Ford is, however, working on implementing a production version of a NOx control system patented by the EPA. This system reduces the O2 concentration in the combustion chamber to 13-14%. At that level there is not enough free oxygen left after combustion to form NOx. NOx requires not only extreme heat by also free O2 to bind with the Nitrogen atoms in the combustion chamber. With this new system combustion temps are lowered, but more importantly, free O2 is substantially reduced.

 

System requires significant replumbing of the exhaust (new EGR system and a variable geometry turbocharger are required, as the system also requires being able to adjust the boost pressure in the combustion chamber), and of course a new PCM, so the engineering requirements are not small.

 

However the Ford/PSA diesels offer a great platform for implementing this technology.

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