Latest medium and heavy truck news

[Bob Rosadini]

I was born and raised in Fort Kent and I remember Cole's had a terminal which was behind the church on River St. These trucks were very much present for a while but I lost track of them after my move to CT. Cole's closed their doors shortly after. They sure were a "different" looking beast.

Fort Kent- now YOU know what winter is all about!

[boominup]

Fort Kent- now YOU know what winter is all about!

You know it!!! We invented snow in Fort Kent. Average snowfall is over 12 ft! For a town of only 5000+ population, there sure are allot of people in this country that know about Fort Kent, ME!!

[Mad Hatter]

They were unique- not so much as combining a tank with a box but I think the use of a "Cracker Box" with the added front axle was unique to Coles. Another great regional carrier from another era. If my memory was right I think a run to Fort Kent was what led to this idea.

There is an article in this months' Hemmings' Classic Car about this company and those particular trucks. Actually, they changed up the format of the magazine and have been featuring a trucking article for the past six or so months. Sometimes it's about a company, sometimes about a particular piece of road, and sometimes a truck.

 

BTW, I get a kick out of reading these threads. When I was a kid, my dad had a fair-sized utility and commercial sitework company. I remember he had a B-model Mack winch truck (probably one of the last), and a Diamond T that was much more modern-looking (I'm guessing one of the last, also-this was late-'60s/early '70s); I guess it was maybe some badge-engineered truck like the latter Brockways? For some reason after that, he went to gas-engine trucks. Had a new '72 C-70 tandem with a 427/5X3, C and F-Series Fords with 330 XD/straight 4-speeds.

[7Mary3]

Joe, if the Vision is a large bus, than perhaps thisd is a sign that the V-10 650 will be produced as a cowl chassis???

 

Bluebird manufactures all their own chassis now, even for conventional school buses. My understanding is Bluebird is going to try the Roush prepped CNG V-10 in their chassis, in addition to the GM/Origin 8.0L CNG V-8.

 

Remember that Navistar is major manufacturer of complete school buses. Very unlikely that 'Blue Diamond' will be allowed to compete in that market.

[Bob Rosadini]

Bluebird manufactures all their own chassis now, even for conventional school buses. My understanding is Bluebird is going to try the Roush prepped CNG V-10 in their chassis, in addition to the GM/Origin 8.0L CNG V-8.

 

Remember that Navistar is major manufacturer of complete school buses. Very unlikely that 'Blue Diamond' will be allowed to compete in that market.

 

Good point-and another reason for them to either "S--t or get off the pot"! Did not know that about Bluebird- so what do they use for sheet metal in a conventional? I can understand how it makes sense in the case of a pusher to build your own- a conventional however sounds like it should be another set of economics.

[theoldwizard]

Bluebird manufactures all their own chassis now, even for conventional school buses.

Hmmm ... I heard someone talking about a "bluebird" version of the F650/750 the other day. It goes along with Class A motor home version of the F650/750 chassis.

 

Nothing official, just overheard conversations.

[7Mary3]

Good point-and another reason for them to either "S--t or get off the pot"! Did not know that about Bluebird- so what do they use for sheet metal in a conventional? I can understand how it makes sense in the case of a pusher to build your own- a conventional however sounds like it should be another set of economics.

 

Bluebird has their own composite hood for the Vision conventional models:

 

http://www.blue-bird.com/product.aspx?category=School&item=Vision

[Bob Rosadini]

Bluebird has their own composite hood for the Vision conventional models:

 

http://www.blue-bird.com/product.aspx?category=School&item=Vision

Thx for the info. This is another example of someone spending significant dollars to engineer a niche market vehicle. this is what makes me scratch my head when some one says Ford can't afford to engineer/build a competitive class 6/7 truck.

[Joe771476]

Hurricane Irene has brought out the medium duty bucket trucks used by the utilities (CL&P here) and tree removal companies (mostly Asplundh). CL&P is now running 98 percent International with a few Fords. The Fords are the most recent generation Blue Diamond mediums. Tree trucks seem to be 60 percent International and 40 percent amazingly are recent model GMC. They must have bought a ton of them before GM threw in the towel! The funny thing is that I've been delaying posting this post for a week now and I just saw an Asplundh latest generation (Blue Diamond) F750! I did, I really did! I have not seen one Freightliner, Hino or Sterling utility or tree truck! On another note, I'm seeing a few more plain white straight box Fords lately, which has been Hino's forte. By the way, has Ford changed the medium duty grilles every model year? I haven't noticed any changes recently. I ask that because Hino just redesigned the grille and I've only seen one so far, but it's hard to tell if I've seen any NEW Ford mediums!

[Bob Rosadini]

Hurricane Irene has brought out the medium duty bucket trucks used by the utilities (CL&P here) and tree removal companies (mostly Asplundh). CL&P is now running 98 percent International with a few Fords. The Fords are the most recent generation Blue Diamond mediums. Tree trucks seem to be 60 percent International and 40 percent amazingly are recent model GMC. They must have bought a ton of them before GM threw in the towel! The funny thing is that I've been delaying posting this post for a week now and I just saw an Asplundh latest generation (Blue Diamond) F750! I did, I really did! I have not seen one Freightliner, Hino or Sterling utility or tree truck! On another note, I'm seeing a few more plain white straight box Fords lately, which has been Hino's forte. By the way, has Ford changed the medium duty grilles every model year? I haven't noticed any changes recently. I ask that because Hino just redesigned the grille and I've only seen one so far, but it's hard to tell if I've seen any NEW Ford mediums!

Jope, the current grille has been in use since 2004 which was the first year of Blue Diamond. up here in MA, I woiuldsay the two big utilities- National Grid and NStar are a mix of Internationals, F'liners and Fords. As for tree outfits, Asplundh still seems to be saturated with GMC's while Lewis Tree has Fords, GMC'saand Internationals.

 

Altech has a big service center close by to me in Sterling MA and they must have 50 new chassis in their lot right now. Most are F-liners with a few Internationals. It appears that the big customer is Ohio Edison.

 

If ytou look at Ford's stats-at least in Heavy Duty Trucking mag, they are selling well-way above last year.

[Joe771476]

Glad to hear about the Ford stats Bob. Now for an update: On my way to Woodstock Fair via I-84 and a convoy of about 6 F750's were heading west, along with an orange Asplundh Freightliner! Couldn't make out the name but I think they had the same markings as Henkels & McCoy which has a garage in nearby Portland CT. Coming back from Woodstock on the old Rte. 6, a convoy of about 5 blue tandem axle Internationals flew by me headed east toward Rhode Island. These things were huge!

Edited September 5, 2011 by Joe771476

[Joe771476]

Bob and 7M3, check out this little article. There's a couple things I didn't know that appear to be true, yet there's a couple things I'm not sure about. For one thing, I'm quite sure the C-series went to 1992.

Anything else in there that strikes you as being misinfo? Don't forget, it's wikipedia.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_C-Series

[7Mary3]

Bob and 7M3, check out this little article. There's a couple things I didn't know that appear to be true, yet there's a couple things I'm not sure about. For one thing, I'm quite sure the C-series went to 1992.

Anything else in there that strikes you as being misinfo? Don't forget, it's wikipedia.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_C-Series

 

No, 1990 was it. Both the Caterpillar 3208 and Detroit Diesel 8.2L went out of production in 1990, and those were the only engines available in the C series after 1986. Also, the wikipedia article is wrong, the C series looked dated in 1967!

[Bob Rosadini]

Well guys, the one thing I think is in error is the reference to the C series Super Duty coming on the scene in 1961. I do believe the 401/477/534's were offered in the same year they were put in the F series- 1958.

 

Also he refers to Iveco as thue builer of the Cargo. I'm of the belief that was in fact a Ford product. I'm not sure of the year, biut I believe it was "truck of the year when it came out in Europe. the ones that first came to the US were built in Brazil and then production was ultimately moved to KTP.

 

As for its looks, I have to disagree with you 7M. To the contrary I think the design was timeless. Let's face it, 33 years of production is a long time. Think a Mack MB or a White Compact or a White 6000 looked "modern"?

[Joe771476]

I guess I'll have to get out my "History of Ford Trucks" book. I was sure that it ran from 1957 to 1992.....35 years. This book by the way is the bible. It's one inch thick with 10 pictures per page of every truck, farm tractor and army jeep and tank Ford ever built!

[Ranger20]

Is the book you're talking about Ford Trucks Since 1905 by James Wagner? This is by far the best book on Ford trucks I've ever read. It stops coverage at 1978 however.

[Bob Rosadini]

Is the book you're talking about Ford Trucks Since 1905 by James Wagner? This is by far the best book on Ford trucks I've ever read. It stops coverage at 1978 however.

10-4 on the Wagner book. I went to it after I made my comment on the SD motors being available in 1958 (I was correct)- and discovered another fact-Ford had a 583 cu. inch in development but it never came out. In any case great book-I've never found anything in that I questioned.

 

There is another book-"Ford Heavy Duty Trucks, 1948-1998" by J McLaughlin that is full of inacuracies, but it does have some nice pix.

 

In any case Joe's question is a good one-what year for sure did the last C role down the line.

[Bob Rosadini]

There may be no significance in this, but in any case, I just picked up the latest regional heavy truck/construction equipment sales rag. There is an interesting full page add for Tasca Ford, announcing they are opening an exclusive heavy truck center in Cranston RI (like 20 service bays and they are looking for the full slate of manpower-heavy truck techs, parts specialists etc.). Cranston WAS the site of an old Ford/Sterling Heavy Truck store that closed a few months ago.

 

The significance of this? Tasca is a long time Ford dealer and for you old guys who followed drag racing, you probably remember Bob Tasca as one of the key guys that put Ford on the drag racing map back in the mid 60's. (Remember the 428 Mustang Cobra Jets at the 68 Winternationals?). I think it would be safe to say, if any dealer principal had a wire to the top it was this guy. Forty years later, they are still in business.

 

Which says to me, with Ford's current medium duty line up, and with the questions surrounding Bluediamond, what would convince this successful Ford dealer who HAS a medium duty store, to take on such an operation at this time?

 

Perhaps the boys at Tasca see something on the horizon? I can't believe it makes sense based on the current product slate.

[lfeg]

Interesting. There have been a few stories and interviews in local media about and with a long time Cleveland area Ford truck dealer. (Valley Ford Truck)They seem pretty excited about upcoming powertrains in the F650/F750 line (V10 gas, CNG, LPG) and capabilities. They even had a local auto writer(?!) do a review on an F650. (link to it My link )

 

Their big thing looks to be alternative fuel capabilities and hybrids for light mediums (F450/F550).

[7Mary3]

That is interesting. Of course it could mean Tasca is looking to pick up a heavy truck franchise from another make, but at this point who knows. My company is planning on buying a lot of CNG trucks over the next few years. I have heard about the CNG V-10 in the F-650, but at this point it seems that the V-10 F-650 is going to have a lot of spec. restrictions on it. One idea that we are considering is installing a Cummins Westport CNG engine into an F-750. Freightliner is offering the Westport in many M2's, and is also reported to be offering the Origin 8.0L CNG/LNG V-8 in the near future. We will probably look into those as well.

[Edstock]

I wonder how the EcoBoost turbo tech would work with CNG or propane? The V-10 or even the 6.2 V-8 would have lots of torque with an EB system.

[Bob Rosadini]

I wonder how the EcoBoost turbo tech would work with CNG or propane? The V-10 or even the 6.2 V-8 would have lots of torque with an EB system.

To say nothing of the benefits of increased fuel economy. I don't have a clue as to the cost dif between the stock Cummins in a 650/750 and the upcoming V-10 but I would think its significant. So add a grand??? -for the EB option and with the upfront savings, and assuming the 87 vs. diesel cost per gallon remains, then that might be interesting.

[Bob Rosadini]

That is interesting. Of course it could mean Tasca is looking to pick up a heavy truck franchise from another make, but at this point who knows. My company is planning on buying a lot of CNG trucks over the next few years. I have heard about the CNG V-10 in the F-650, but at this point it seems that the V-10 F-650 is going to have a lot of spec. restrictions on it. One idea that we are considering is installing a Cummins Westport CNG engine into an F-750. Freightliner is offering the Westport in many M2's, and is also reported to be offering the Origin 8.0L CNG/LNG V-8 in the near future. We will probably look into those as well.

As for another heavy franchise, the area is just about covered. As for the Westport option, is that offered in the 6.7? That would make a lot of sense for Ford to jump on that bandwagon. And dimensionally, is there enough room in current 650/750 to put an 8.3 in?

[7Mary3]

As for another heavy franchise, the area is just about covered. As for the Westport option, is that offered in the 6.7? That would make a lot of sense for Ford to jump on that bandwagon. And dimensionally, is there enough room in current 650/750 to put an 8.3 in?

 

Westport has CNG versions of many Cummins diesels, but as far as I know none of them are available as a factory install in Ford 650's or 750's. I think our plan is to install one ourselves. I think there might be enough room for a Cummins ISC 8.3L in the Ford. Remember they were offered with the Cat 3126/C-7, and those engines are much bigger than the Cummins ISB. The only way we will ever see a tandem axle Ford F-850 would be if an engine larger than the ISB was made available. And, for what it's worth, I don't think 'Blue Diamond' would ever do such a truck as long as Navistar is calling the shots.

 

In other news, we just took delivery of a 'maxed out' 2011 F-750 5 yd. dump at work. It has the new dash, but it is poorly laid out. The air pressure gauge is still stuck in a hole behind the steering wheel like it was in the older models, and the auxillary gauges (volts and trans. temp.) are in an overhead consul. Very cheap and crude. The 6.7L ISB (I think it's 330 h.p.) pulls the truck around empty well, but rapidly falls off under load. An 8.3L would help a lot. Ford was talking about 'Ford DNA' in these trucks a few years ago, but it is painfully obvious they are nothing more than a Super Duty can on an International Durastar chassis with a Cummins engine.

[Bob Rosadini]

Westport has CNG versions of many Cummins diesels, but as far as I know none of them are available as a factory install in Ford 650's or 750's. I think our plan is to install one ourselves. I think there might be enough room for a Cummins ISC 8.3L in the Ford. Remember they were offered with the Cat 3126/C-7, and those engines are much bigger than the Cummins ISB. The only way we will ever see a tandem axle Ford F-850 would be if an engine larger than the ISB was made available. And, for what it's worth, I don't think 'Blue Diamond' would ever do such a truck as long as Navistar is calling the shots.

 

In other news, we just took delivery of a 'maxed out' 2011 F-750 5 yd. dump at work. It has the new dash, but it is poorly laid out. The air pressure gauge is still stuck in a hole behind the steering wheel like it was in the older models, and the auxillary gauges (volts and trans. temp.) are in an overhead consul. Very cheap and crude. The 6.7L ISB (I think it's 330 h.p.) pulls the truck around empty well, but rapidly falls off under load. An 8.3L would help a lot. Ford was talking about 'Ford DNA' in these trucks a few years ago, but it is painfully obvious they are nothing more than a Super Duty can on an International Durastar chassis with a Cummins engine.

Wow- 330HP and it still has no guts? That is a pretty good torque number too if my memory is correct. Is it an Allison? Also it doesn't even have a class 7 box. Assuming its a 33,000 gvw, most people would put a 6/8 yard box on it.

 

As to your comment on the DNA-or lack of it, that was my point about a knowledgeable Ford dealer putting a big investment into an operation unless they have an idea that changes are on the horizon-lets face it, the current truck is the oldest of all the class 6-7 offerings out there.