robertlane Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 Click here for the article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 Even Fields admited that marketshare decline willl continue for the immediate future despite new products. The goal was to stop it, not reverse it. Although it appears the domestics have yet to realize just how rapidly people would begin dumping their Explorers and Tahoes. Lower marketshare and much lower revenue per vehicle, that's a tough one to handle indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 This article is abominable both due to its abundance of errors indicating an a total disinterest in the products that Ford sells, and his arrogance in assuming that he is qualified to summarize Ford's position when he knows little to nothing about Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPITYDAFOOL VIRUSFREE Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 This article is abominable both due to its abundance of errors indicating an a total disinterest in the products that Ford sells, and his arrogance in assuming that he is qualified to summarize Ford's position when he knows little to nothing about Ford. The Reflex or Bronco will be the first Ford Product to catch on. Every reputable finacial paper, magazine, analysis, etc, etc even Billy himself realize the storm in America is larger than they perceived. I wish this wasn't true but the fact remains. The disinterest is perceived because they cant find the interest in the products. They formulated this thru sales figures, %fleet sales, reliance on gas guzzling trucks, overall situation of American auto industry in regards to cost. There are many people outthere that may love Ford cars and Trucks but without robust sales figures and exciting new products, Ford's position is to find a position to start at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 The Reflex or Bronco will be the first Ford Product to catch on. Every reputable finacial paper, magazine, analysis, etc, etc even Billy himself realize the storm in America is larger than they perceived. I wish this wasn't true but the fact remains. The disinterest is perceived because they cant find the interest in the products. They formulated this thru sales figures, %fleet sales, reliance on gas guzzling trucks, overall situation of American auto industry in regards to cost. There are many people outthere that may love Ford cars and Trucks but without robust sales figures and exciting new products, Ford's position is to find a position to start at. Indeed, the situation is far more grave than many realize, although Ford seems fairly honest about the immediate future. It is true that Ford is not yet in a place to actually begin again. It still must shed a ton of marketshare currently held by fleet sales and downsize the company considerably. Looking at the heavy fleet dependency, I think Ford probably should AIM for a marketshare bottom of 13% following a purge of fleet heavies like the Taurus, Crown Vic, Focus and gas hogs like the Explorer and Expedition. Once Ford ditches those burdens, they can begin to grow again assuming they develop competitive products are are able to fix their business plan in NA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinb120 Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 I wonder if Ford would of sold more 2006 Expeditions this spring if they hadn't plastered the NEW BEST EXPEDITION 2007 MODEL ON THE WAY all over the website 6 months ago :shrug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Well, shows that selling Taurases at a loss will eventaully hurt! "total disinterest in the products that Ford sells" Well, it is not, repeat, not the 20th Century anymore and no one cares about how 'modern' the 1986 Taurus was 20 years ago. Import makes have more plants and more dealers, and offering 'something that reminds me of my old 86 ...' means squat to most people. MF got Mazda on track, by making good products, not keeping an old car around and saying 'but it's like the good old days'. Sitting around going "gosh those old cars were great, why can't it be 1965 [or 1986, or 1959...] again?" is a death sentance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc-o Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 (edited) Well, shows that selling Taurases at a loss will eventaully hurt! "total disinterest in the products that Ford sells" Well, it is not, repeat, not the 20th Century anymore and no one cares about how 'modern' the 1986 Taurus was 20 years ago. Import makes have more plants and more dealers, and offering 'something that reminds me of my old 86 ...' means squat to most people. MF got Mazda on track, by making good products, not keeping an old car around and saying 'but it's like the good old days'. Sitting around going "gosh those old cars were great, why can't it be 1965 [or 1986, or 1959...] again?" is a death sentance. That's a very good point... and as much of an improvement as the Fusion is, it's not the groundbreaker the Taurus was, plus, we're in a different century. The one product Ford has now that is really a hit is the Mustang, although I do wonder how much of that is because it's a "Mustang" and how much is because of what it is. I think it would sell quite well even without the heritage, and although the styling is based on a classic, that isn't what it relies on to sell, and that is so very important. I hate to sound like the autoextremist editor, but it's true, what Ford needs is segment leaders, products that beat the competition in every (or almost every) aspect. I really dont think that is the case now, even if the vehicle are being updated more often. I don't think turning a profit on over a hundred billion dollarsin revenue is too much to ask. Edited July 1, 2006 by marc-o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 The Edge will be the best selling vehicle in its class. In (once again) predicting gloom and despair, the brightest spots at Ford are being overlooked. Ford dealers cannot wait to get this vehicle in their showrooms. Lincoln dealers are excited about the MKX for the same reasons. Also, the F150 is demonstrating just how competitive it is by picking up marketshare in a shrinking market. Only the strongest entries in a segment do this. Ford has picked up a couple percentage points of marketshare in the fullsize truck segment this year. WITH a SuperDuty that's at the end of its life cycle. For the year, F-Series sales are down only 2%--try and find similar statistics elsewhere in the industry. Fusion sales are capped by capacity. And that's more important for Ford than outselling the Camry or any other vehicle. Additionally, it's easy to say that Ford needs "segment leading" offerings, but how--exactly--do you define segment leading in the midsize sedan segment? Most power? Best value? Most available equipment? Most standard equipment? It is as easy to be unrealistic and negative as it is to be unrealistic and positive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Not even close. Hermosillos capacity is 300k+. Fusion/Milan/Zephyr sales are not even 20,000 per month. 20,000 a month for 12 months, is only 240,000. The Fusion is being sold in Brazil, Mexico, and Canada. If you have even 5k units of volume in that vehicle (and the Zep in Canada/Mexico), you get 25k units per month (or capacity). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPITYDAFOOL VIRUSFREE Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 The Edge will be the best selling vehicle in its class. In (once again) predicting gloom and despair, the brightest spots at Ford are being overlooked. Ford dealers cannot wait to get this vehicle in their showrooms. Lincoln dealers are excited about the MKX for the same reasons. Also, the F150 is demonstrating just how competitive it is by picking up marketshare in a shrinking market. Only the strongest entries in a segment do this. Ford has picked up a couple percentage points of marketshare in the fullsize truck segment this year. WITH a SuperDuty that's at the end of its life cycle. For the year, F-Series sales are down only 2%--try and find similar statistics elsewhere in the industry. Fusion sales are capped by capacity. And that's more important for Ford than outselling the Camry or any other vehicle. Additionally, it's easy to say that Ford needs "segment leading" offerings, but how--exactly--do you define segment leading in the midsize sedan segment? Most power? Best value? Most available equipment? Most standard equipment? It is as easy to be unrealistic and negative as it is to be unrealistic and positive. THe Edge is close to the cliff. Seriously, we need Explorer 94-96 numbers out of this car/truck to even think positive about market share gains. This is a niche vehicle just like the solstice. This vehicle should have came out as a Ford anyway. :shrug: :titanic: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 THe Edge is close to the cliff. Seriously, we need Explorer 94-96 numbers out of this car/truck to even think positive about market share gains. This is a niche vehicle just like the solstice. This vehicle should have came out as a Ford anyway. :shrug: :titanic: IPIDDY... the salse numbers of other crossover SUV indicate that you are wrong .. unless you believe the Ford is so butchered it is not included in the main category, and will only attract hardwing Fod fans.. I am with richard, and we will soo be able to tell for sure... just sit still , and we can talk once the car is online.. untill then, we are really just arguing about assumptionsnad optinions ... and you know as well as I do that that is pointless. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 This is a niche vehicle just like the solstice. huh? The Edge is NOT a niche vehicle. The "crossover" segment will be over 4 million units large at the end of 2006. Contrast that with midsize sedans (2M) and fullsize pickups (3M). As far as market share gains are concerned, the vehicle needs to profitably utilize capacity (along with the MKX) at OAC. Market share, with no profit, is useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPITYDAFOOL VIRUSFREE Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 huh? The Edge is NOT a niche vehicle. The "crossover" segment will be over 4 million units large at the end of 2006. Contrast that with midsize sedans (2M) and fullsize pickups (3M). As far as market share gains are concerned, the vehicle needs to profitably utilize capacity (along with the MKX) at OAC. Market share, with no profit, is useless. Thats why I said It should have a Ford Badge. Lincoln is a niche market. So the Edge Is a niche vehicle. Cuv's are gaining but there are many different price ranges. 35000 to 40000 is a niche cuv market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Umm, the Edge is a Ford brand car-UV, and who said it was targeted for that low volume? Getting 1995 era sales #'s for an Explorer is not gonna happen again. Have to get some other products out there and not wait for the BOF SUV gravy train to come back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Thats why I said It should have a Ford Badge. Lincoln is a niche market. So the Edge Is a niche vehicle. Cuv's are gaining but there are many different price ranges. 35000 to 40000 is a niche cuv market. Huh? What Ford badge? Do you mean the Ford badge in the middle of the grille on the Edge? This vehicle is coming to market with about a $24k entry point. With Ford's huuuge distribution network, and the options, pricing, power, and style of this thing, Ford will -e-a-s-i-l-y- sell over 100k units, will probably hit 150k with no difficulty at all, and may even push 200k. Unlike the Fusion, which enters an incredibly competitive segment, the Edge enters a new segment that lacks established players (the "established" player in this segment is the odd looking Murano). On the other hand, the MKX Will sell for about $10k more than the Edge (and will feature wayyyy more standard equipment). Are we still having difficulty understanding what's going on here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPITYDAFOOL VIRUSFREE Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Huh? What Ford badge? Do you mean the Ford badge in the middle of the grille on the Edge? This vehicle is coming to market with about a $24k entry point. With Ford's huuuge distribution network, and the options, pricing, power, and style of this thing, Ford will -e-a-s-i-l-y- sell over 100k units, will probably hit 150k with no difficulty at all, and may even push 200k. Unlike the Fusion, which enters an incredibly competitive segment, the Edge enters a new segment that lacks established players (the "established" player in this segment is the odd looking Murano). On the other hand, the MKX Will sell for about $10k more than the Edge (and will feature wayyyy more standard equipment). Are we still having difficulty understanding what's going on here? All Clear. I thought the Edge was the Lincoln version. MKS MXS or whatever the new Lincoln thing is confused me before they even made it to market. I agree for the most part, lets see if the dealers get their orders when they need them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 I agree for the most part, lets see if the dealers get their orders when they need them. Ford will not be speeding the launch to get high volume to dealers early. This is yet another example of a sea-change in Ford's methods that has not been duplicated at GM and Chrysler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluecon Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Ford will not be speeding the launch to get high volume to dealers early. This is yet another example of a sea-change in Ford's methods that has not been duplicated at GM and Chrysler. Is this the secret to the way forward plan? Ford will have real slow launches. I am surprised GM and Chrysler have not figured out this top secret method and duplicated it. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Is this the secret to the way forward plan?Ford will have real slow launches. I am surprised GM and Chrysler have not figured out this top secret method and duplicated it. :lol: you will do anything to make it look bad on Ford.. how about toyota and releasing the camry with a faulty transmission. Or Toyota releasing the FJ Cruiser with improperly mounted tires. Or GM releasing a corvette with improperly glued roofs. etc etc etc.... Ford has not had almost nay recals on post 2005 cars and compared to the other brands it is doing very well in making sure its new products are only released when ready... Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Is this the secret to the way forward plan?Ford will have real slow launches. I am surprised GM and Chrysler have not figured out this top secret method and duplicated it. :lol: New launches from Ford have consistently placed in the top three on JD Power IQS studies. Similar results have not been achieved by GM and Chrysler. Among the seven vehicles on new architectures Ford has launched since MY 2005 (the Five Hundred, Montego, Freestyle, Mustang, Fusion, Milan, and Zephyr), there has been exactly one recall, concerning gas straps of sub-par quality that could fail after 100k miles. If you have a problem with quality metrics like that, you are welcome to take it up with Ford's executive officers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluecon Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 New launches from Ford have consistently placed in the top three on JD Power IQS studies. Similar results have not been achieved by GM and Chrysler. Among the seven vehicles on new architectures Ford has launched since MY 2005 (the Five Hundred, Montego, Freestyle, Mustang, Fusion, Milan, and Zephyr), there has been exactly one recall, concerning gas straps of sub-par quality that could fail after 100k miles. If you have a problem with quality metrics like that, you are welcome to take it up with Ford's executive officers. I am just worried about you letting out top secret info like that. What if Toyota reads that and slows down to Ford speed. What chance will Ford have then, if Toyota is just as slow as Ford. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 I am just worried about you letting out top secret info like that. What if Toyota reads that and slows down to Ford speed. What chance will Ford have then, if Toyota is just as slow as Ford. :lol: Well, Toyota might've avoided an embarassing recall on the 2007 Camry if they'd followed Ford's practices. As well as crticism from the finicky Lienerts over the fit and finish of that same car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluecon Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 you will do anything to make it look bad on Ford.. how about toyota and releasing the camry with a faulty transmission. Or Toyota releasing the FJ Cruiser with improperly mounted tires. Or GM releasing a corvette with improperly glued roofs. etc etc etc.... Ford has not had almost nay recals on post 2005 cars and compared to the other brands it is doing very well in making sure its new products are only released when ready... Igor Actually I don't do it all by myself. You guys provide much of the material as in this case saying that going very slow in this fast paced competitive market is an advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 Actually I don't do it all by myself. You guys provide much of the material as in this case saying that going very slow in this fast paced competitive market is an advantage. "Fast paced competitive market" yeah. Because the first two-three months a vehicle is on the market makes all the difference in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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