Ford's Fading Future

[ehaase]

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06166/698351-185.stm

[StevenJ]

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06166/698351-185.stm

 

Not convinced. They are ignoring a lot of future big sellers, like the Edge, the new MKZ once it gets AWD and the 3.5l V6, among other things. Like the fact that the Impala sells very heavily to fleets while the 500 does not. Richard will probably chime in when gets in his groove.

[ehaase]

Richard will probably chime in when gets in his groove.

That's why I posted the article. I can't wait to read his response.

[Roadrunner]

<<In the heart of the market -- family sedans -- Ford also is struggling. It takes both of its main family sedan models, the full-size Five Hundred and its popular intermediate Fusion, to even come close to the sales of just one GM product, the full-size Chevy Impala.>>

 

Did they use non-fleet Impala sales or did they just compare numbers? If so, then unfair comparison -- Fusion and Ford Hundred will be soaking up the Taurus fleet sales within a couple years' time.

[silvrsvt]

WTF..this article is seriously flawed...big sales increases for the GMT9000 SUV's? The only reason they sold so well at the start of the year was the preivous models where being blown out and sales of the big SUV's have been going down since then.

 

As for Ford not spending money on the Expedition and Navigator...it might be the smart thing for them since the sales will not be in any shape or form what they where in the past. If they can keep their current sales levels or slow the loss of sales, it will be successful. Not to mention that they are now based on a shared platform with the upcoming 09 F-150 platform, it will be easier to flex them into other plants if needed.

 

As for GM's hits...if you add up all 3 of their "hit" models...you have about 100K units there...thats next to nothing, not to mention they are all niche/halo/etc etc models. Mean while their big bread and butter cars are dumped in to fleets, while Ford's Sedans are all retail sales with only 15% of them going into fleets for the 500/Fusion.

 

Seems like this article is more proof of what Detroit doesnt need to follow to be successful.

[IPITYDAFOOL VIRUSFREE]

Not convinced. They are ignoring a lot of future big sellers, like the Edge, the new MKZ once it gets AWD and the 3.5l V6, among other things. Like the fact that the Impala sells very heavily to fleets while the 500 does not. Richard will probably chime in when gets in his groove.

OSTRICH SPOTTED. Mexican BOLD WAY FORWARD will be the first signs Of innovative car. 3 to 4 year wait. LEXUS 330 HYbrid along with other high-end CUV will leave the Edge hoping for 75000 sales in a 24 month span. I may be wrong but Edge doesnt have the EDge. It will compete and that is it. FORD REFLUX OR BRONCO SMALL suv will be the first FOrd since Mustang to have a market impact. 427 would have done this also. Its not too late but word of the Mexico fiasco has to hurt Ford lovers, It is very quiet today from the non-doomers and gloomers. Doom And Gloom is catching.

[silvrsvt]

OSTRICH SPOTTED. Mexican BOLD WAY FORWARD will be the first signs Of innovative car. 3 to 4 year wait. LEXUS 330 HYbrid along with other high-end CUV will leave the Edge hoping for 75000 sales in a 24 month span. I may be wrong but Edge doesnt have the EDge. It will compete and that is it. FORD REFLUX OR BRONCO SMALL suv will be the first FOrd since Mustang to have a market impact. 427 would have done this also. Its not too late but word of the Mexico fiasco has to hurt Ford lovers, It is very quiet today from the non-doomers and gloomers. Doom And Gloom is catching.

 

 

I guess you have no fucking clue do you? The Edge and MkX are coming out in Hybrids also and the Edge isnt competition for the Lexus 330, the MkX is. I guess you also missed the Detroit news article about Ford's plan, I guess Ford should cut you a check and you can leave us alone.

[IPITYDAFOOL VIRUSFREE]

I guess you have no fucking clue do you? The Edge and MkX are coming out in Hybrids also and the Edge isnt competition for the Lexus 330, the MkX is. I guess you also missed the Detroit news article about Ford's plan, I guess Ford should cut you a check and you can leave us alone.

Dude, As soon as I Get any definite word of Buyout, I will never post on BOn again. I only have to look outside metropolis (WALL STREET) to know MERCEDES,BMW,LEXUS, r 1000 times better than Lincoln. Just for kicks, LIncolns are good for fleet car service, not 36g and up looked down onluxury. Navigator saved LIncoln for the past 10 years. A truck with high profit due to its Ford makeup, U guys need to get into A BMW or S class, U will forget all about LIncolns, NO COMPARISON

[grbeck]

Not convinced. They are ignoring a lot of future big sellers, like the Edge, the new MKZ once it gets AWD and the 3.5l V6, among other things. Like the fact that the Impala sells very heavily to fleets while the 500 does not. Richard will probably chime in when gets in his groove.

 

Reporters need to start breaking out fleet sales from retail sales. That gives a better picture of the overall health or success of a model. No more of these "The Taurus is still outselling the Fusion" stories. No mention that the Fusion is selling primarily to RETAIL customers, which is more important to the health of the company's bottom line.

[Great_Kornholio]

Dude, As soon as I Get any definite word of Buyout, I will never post on BOn again. I only have to look outside metropolis (WALL STREET) to know MERCEDES,BMW,LEXUS, r 1000 times better than Lincoln. Just for kicks, LIncolns are good for fleet car service, not 36g and up looked down onluxury. Navigator saved LIncoln for the past 10 years. A truck with high profit due to its Ford makeup, U guys need to get into A BMW or S class, U will forget all about LIncolns, NO COMPARISON

 

That is almost a big of a load crap as the pro Bush crap.

 

We need to start taxing the hell out of foreign cars.

 

Late models of Euro trash cars suck!

 

[Roadrunner]

Dude, As soon as I Get any definite word of Buyout, I will never post on BOn again. I only have to look outside metropolis (WALL STREET) to know MERCEDES,BMW,LEXUS, r 1000 times better than Lincoln. Just for kicks, LIncolns are good for fleet car service, not 36g and up looked down onluxury. Navigator saved LIncoln for the past 10 years. A truck with high profit due to its Ford makeup, U guys need to get into A BMW or S class, U will forget all about LIncolns, NO COMPARISON

 

Well, admittedly, I've already forgotten about Lincoln since they axed the LS.

 

Make another LS and I'll give the brand another look.

[IPITYDAFOOL VIRUSFREE]

That is almost a big of a load crap as the pro Bush crap.

 

We need to start taxing the hell out of foreign cars.

 

Late models of Euro trash cars suck!

 

It wont matter, the customer will pay. BTW too many rich people that control yur future will never do this. LOLOLOLOL. U better pray for the Mexicans to start making enough pesos for Lincoln to compete.

[silvrsvt]

A truck with high profit due to its Ford makeup, U guys need to get into A BMW or S class, U will forget all about LIncolns, NO COMPARISON

 

 

Yeah I can go out and get a Lincoln and save myself a shit load of money instead of getting the lastest yuppie toy. Plus since when does Lincoln compete with a S class or BMW? If I'm gonna blow that much money on a car and wanted a Ford product, I'd get a Jag or even a Volvo!

 

BMW-Big money wasted

[Edstock]

Owning a Mercedes S-class or a BMW 7 series is God's way of telling you you make too much money.

[Michael Reynolds]

Owning a Mercedes S-class or a BMW 7 series is God's way of telling you you make too much money.

 

LOL, if that's all it takes.

 

Seriously WTF is up with this ostrich crap? Some of you people around here have some serious issues that you might want to have checked out sometime.

 

Looks like Mr. Hammonds was rushed to write the article, or was too lazy to dig. Silly reporter:

 

- GM is not looking to expand Solstice/Sky production by much, in an attempt to keep the vehicles exclusive

- The Mustang is not the only vehicle with sales momentum, the Fusion has seen decent sales increases month over month. He carefully plugs that in a paragraph or two later as he mumbles about the Impala

-The Impala was fleet car of the year, enough said

 

Let's not compare Ford to GM as if GM is some stellar example of how an automotive company should be run. Face it the general is behind the curve, when compared to Chrysler and Ford, when it comes down to overall 'car' sales.

[Mark B. Morrow]

LOL, if that's all it takes.

 

Seriously WTF is up with this ostrich crap? Some of you people around here have some serious issues that you might want to have checked out sometime.

 

Looks like Mr. Hammonds was rushed to write the article, or was too lazy to dig. Silly reporter:

 

- GM is not looking to expand Solstice/Sky production by much, in an attempt to keep the vehicles exclusive

- The Mustang is not the only vehicle with sales momentum, the Fusion has seen decent sales increases month over month. He carefully plugs that in a paragraph or two later as he mumbles about the Impala

-The Impala was fleet car of the year, enough said

 

Let's not compare Ford to GM as if GM is some stellar example of how an automotive company should be run. Face it the general is behind the curve, when compared to Chrysler and Ford, when it comes down to overall 'car' sales.

 

I have had an opportunity to talk to Don Hammonds on a couple of occasions when he covered the Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix ( www.pvgp.org ). Don is a real nice guy and a car guy. He has written some very complimentary stuff about the Mustang, Fusion and 500. That said, I think the media's Bash Ford mentality has gotten to him in this case. The Corvette and Saturn Sky/Pontiac Solstice Halo cars will never be volume sellers. I don't think that all 3 combined will equal this years Mustang sales. What else does GM have? Pontiac is destined to be the G6 motor division, Buick's LaCrosse and Luzerne aren't setting the world on fire. Caddy has some nice new stuff but it is at a much higher price point.

 

Chevy doesn't have anything terribly exciting. The Impala and Malibu haven't changed much in the last 3 years. The Camaro is still a "maybe" for '09. Even then the reality won't match the concept. Challenger is only being discussed as a limited production car at a premium price. No volume there. The Chrysler 300 is begining to wane as they become common. A restyle is going to be badly needed and soon to keep it desirable.

 

The new Camry is just plain strange looking sort of like a "Mutant Mazda 6" The Accord is Ok but nothing too interesting. Ford needs to take aim at both of these with the 500/Montego and Fusion/Milan. Mercury is already doing it in the Jill Wagner ads for the Milan.

 

Once the Edge and MKX hit and the 500 gets its upgrade and the Fusion/Milan/MKZ go to the 3.5 V-6 I think things will look up considerably.

Edited June 17, 2006 by Mark B. Morrow

[Ron W.]

I don't think that all 3 combined will equal this years Mustang sales................ The Chrysler 300 is begining to wane as they become common.

 

 

I read that the Mustang platform is not designed for flexability......and when the Mustang becomes "common"?

[taxman100]

"It's a politically correct company making mediocre products,'' he said. "There's not enough thought being given to content, who will buy their products, and they end up missing whole segments of the market. They do have some good products, just not enough of them."

 

Peter Morici, a business analyst and professor at the University of Maryland's Robert Smith School of Business.

 

 

This quote is spot-on in the article. Ford is trying to be something it has never been, and their current marketing plan ("Bold Moves") is so bad, it is laughable.

 

Ford might succeed in attracting the kind of customer they want, but they are not going to keep customers like me. I'll move to GM, Hyundai, or Toyota.

[Mark B. Morrow]

I read that the Mustang platform is not designed for flexability......and when the Mustang becomes "common"?

 

That is a real concern if they don't update it by the time the competition gets to market.

[Imawhosure]

To my way of thinking------------->how much, is to much?

 

Yes very wealthy people, or those who aspire to pretend they are wealthy to put up a false front, have no problem buying a Beemer or an over priced Lexus. If we as individuals had that kinda cash to throw away, we probably would too!

 

Do we need automatic this and that for 9 grand? Well, if you have the cash, you probably want it, now don't you, lolol. After all, when you are counting your cash at the bank you are tired, so why not buy something to not only relax in, but have the damn thing almost drive itself for ya to..........you deserve it!!!!!

 

Then you have the upper middle class who want the ride, the vision, the prestige, and of course the truelly AMERICAN heritage.........the one that puts them a cut above most, but doesn't soak them cause they think they are so rich, they are convinced that a car does everything for them..........not to mention that it is so expensive, it creates another house payment to get into.

 

Enter Lincoln!!!!!

 

This is a proven attack, just by the success of Zephyr. Something a cut above, reasonable volume for profit, giving prestige by being parked in your driveway, or being tooled down the road.

 

Almost everyone wants a Vette, don't they?????? Maybe BMW roadster, hows about that? The trick is, to get those that want one and can't afford it to buy a Mustang, right?

 

Most luxury buyers drool for a Roles Royce, or a reasonable facsimile!

 

How many of those are actually sold?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

Is that enough to keep all of us working?

 

Better hope Lincoln can find the sweet spot between desire and affordability; in which case those who desire a Rolls will always desire it, but will be driving a Lincoln which means Ford has created something that Maybe Rolls should aspire to............not to mention WE will have job!

 

P.S. There is NO doubt American engineers could design the best cars the world has ever seen if volume was NOT a concern. If this was not a an accurate statement, we woulda lost world wars, the race to the moon, confused on medicine, etc, etc.

 

Point is, at this time, because of "promised" retirement benefits, very low volume cars are unacceptable, even if profitable.

 

As long as this is the case for the unionized American auto industry, volume will be of high concern. If you make a car for 40 grand, as opposed to 65 grand, what car has the highest percentage of consumers who can afford it?

 

Of course, it is a given that the 40 grand car will not be an equal match for the vehicle that costs 60..........just as the Mustang is a far away second cousin to the Vette.........but which one sells more.........help keeping Ford employeees working.........its retirees whole.............and its marketshere up high enough causing vast amounts of revolving cash to delve into the future!!!!!

 

A smart business man offers what everyone wants, a brilliant businessman offers a reasonable facsimile that massess can afford.

 

Don't believe me?

 

Just ask Uncle Henry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[RichardJensen]

That's why I posted the article. I can't wait to read his response.

"GM ... invited a few journalists into its top secret styling studios to look at future models to be unveiled over the next few years. That added confidence, and GM's "buzz" among car writers has been more positive since, industry sources note."

 

Far more important is it that Ford should gratify reporters' desire to peek behind the curtain, than to actually create better products. In fact, according to this knucklehead, we should judge Ford not on the products that they have on the market now, and the products in development, but on products the press has seen.

 

And buddy, I don't think that's going to happen. I have it on good authority that Pat Schiavone is no fan of the automotive media, and I'm pretty sure that he would have to approve a "behind the scenes" look at Ford's future designs.

 

Seriously, Ford is going to get its message across via the Bold Moves site, which will attract general automotive enthusiasts as well as dyed in the wool Ford fans. And frankly, I think this is a better idea than showing the cupboard to a few "friendly" journalists, and hoping for the best.

 

Screw the press.

 

...

Edited June 27, 2006 by RichardJensen

[BORG]

Besides, what are they going to show the press? The updated headlight lens on the 2009 Mustang? Ford doesn't have anything to show off.

[igor]

Besides, what are they going to show the press? The updated headlight lens on the 2009 Mustang? Ford doesn't have anything to show off.

c'mon borg you know better..

 

you know that there is an almost finished Fairlane.. almost finished MKS sitting there.. there might even be the 08 C170Focus.. or one of the prototypes of C2 Focus... The B's already also likely have built protypes.

 

Ford does not have a product blitz in the next 2 years, but they do have a solid pipeline.

 

Igor

[RichardJensen]

Besides, what are they going to show the press? The updated headlight lens on the 2009 Mustang? Ford doesn't have anything to show off.

Gee. We haven't covered this subject at all, have we? Ford has one million units of new product in NA coming out in 2007, and it's not enough for you.

 

http://media.ford.com/mazda/article_displa...amp;make_id=227 -- this release confirms the arrival of a new Tribute. Weren't you speculating on the Tribute's imminent demise not so long ago?

[BORG]

I knew Mazda was getting the Tribute when I saw the updated Escape/Mariner had more than new fascias. If it was up to Ford, there would be NO sheetmetal changes from introduction to cancellation. With Mazda involved, Ford can't get away with doing nothing.

Edited June 30, 2006 by BORG