grbeck Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 I can think of many reasons as to why Obama may loose the next election, but whether this mosque is constructed near Ground Zero isn't one of them. At the end of the day, whether to allow its construction there is ultimately a local decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 (edited) Mayor Bloomberg is absolutely correct in stating that lowering our standards to those of the fundementalists who attacked us makes us just like them. You were doing fine until you quoted that idiot. He's the one who was so sure that the recent car bomb attempt in New York City was the work of fundamentalist Christians or Obama opponents, and was palpably disappointed when this didn't turn out to be the case. He's the mayor who picks and chooses which amendments of the Constitution he believes people have the right to exercise. (Ask him about the second one.) He's the last person I would ever listen to regarding how the Constitution should be interpreted, or what constitutes freedom and tolerance. He's a walking parody of idiotic political correctness from the left side of the ideological spectrum. The amusing thing is that he doesn't realize it. It is facinating to see Republicans like Newt and Sarah Palin arguing for a political correctness that puts feelings above strict construction of the Constitution. Gingrich seems very willing to hold the United States of America to the same standard of behavior on freedom as Saudi Arabia. Are we no better than a Kingdom that spawned al queda and from which 19 of the 9/11 hijacker terrorists hailed? What's really fascinating is watching the attempt to portray all of the opposition to the mosque as emanating from the Republican Party or Glen Beck. New York is largely Democratic, and much of the opposition is local. Somehow, I doubt that only local Republicans are against construction of the mosque. For that matter, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is against it, too, and last time I checked, he wasn't a Republican. Edited August 20, 2010 by grbeck 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goinbroke2 Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 Everybody said it's legal, just not moral. Didn't know about the nra and columbine, but that was wrong too, legal, but immoral. I actually agree with you Mark with it being a right of an american to do what they want with the protection of the constitution. The only difference I would say though is that where you say we would be thumbing our nose at the radical muslims by allowing it to be built, (and we would) in other parts of the world it would be taken in a complete different context. Another country's context of something wouldn't matter except in this case it would encourage the radicals who would view this as a win. They would NOT think we won by allowing it. I punch you in the face but you smile and walk away. You know that "you showed me" by not doing anything. But I (and all the others on my side) would be cheering me and saying you were a coward. The problem is, at that point others start taking pokes at you too thinking you are a coward and as long as you keep walking, the intensity builds up. You and your friends are correct in not fighting, but it is viewed entirely different from me and my friends. This mosque is a punch in the face. The only thing that makes it a punch in the face is the location and the timing of the opening. After 911, by not hiding, not grinding the states to a halt etc, you "showed them" that the states wasn't afraid of them. This? This isn't comparable. This is agreeing to another building to be hit..."to show them". Help build the biggest mosque in the world in the US, make it a type of Mecca. Be a capitalist for that matter and charge people to enter for the "real" US experience.LOL Just don't build it at ground zero. THAT would "show them". That would show the tolerance to all faiths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 It would bother me to think my daughters/granddaughters would live under a system that advocates this form of punshment (under Sharia) Call me an islamophobe, but I'd kill someone (or die trying) before I let this happen to my offspring. They are a sick bunch of bastards, but Christianity was even worse when it was allowed to run amok and have a big influence on government. If government really wants to do something useful, it should start teaching people that any type of indoctrination is wrong. They will never do that because they are trying to indoctrinate people, themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_A Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 They are a sick bunch of bastards, but Christianity was even worse when it was allowed to run amok and have a big influence on government. If government really wants to do something useful, it should start teaching people that any type of indoctrination is wrong. They will never do that because they are trying to indoctrinate people, themselves. I don't like any organized religion anymore. I've had it with the entire lot of them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partsisparts Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 Good video from the Daily Show: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-august-19-2010/extremist-makeover---homeland-edition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xr7g428 Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 There is a fine line between clever and stupid. The Columbine idiots did not do what they did in the name of the NRA. The 19 Muslim men who killed 3000 Americans most certainly did act in the name of the Muslim religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B. Morrow Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 There is a fine line between clever and stupid. The Columbine idiots did not do what they did in the name of the NRA. The 19 Muslim men who killed 3000 Americans most certainly did act in the name of the Muslim religion. In their own perverted view of it, perhaps. there are plenty of instances of Christians, Jews and others doing insane things supposedly in the name of their religions. The Stewart clip wasn't comparing the motive of the crime,but the complaint of insensitivity of the following act of having the convention and highlighted the response of the NRA to the criticism. You missed the message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xr7g428 Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 Sorry Mark the analogy just doesn't hold. The NRA had nothing to do in any way shape or form with regard to Columbine. The Columbine shooters were not NRA members. 19 Muslim men who murder thousands = members of the Muslim faith. 2 columbine teenagers who murder 13 in the name of mayhem = no relationship to the NRA. By your logic, I guess the FAA has a lot to answer for... There is only one reason to build that facility on that site: they couldn't find anything any closer. Where is the $100 MILLION coming from? Wake up! The Muslim world owes an apology that has never been delivered, and will never be delivered because they are not apologetic for what happened. They instead provide excuses and blame the US. They mock and call us weak and foolish and they are right. We are not even smart enough to understand when they have stuck their thumb in our eye. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLPRacing Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 Maybe we can just... Just some friendly advice, if it were me, I would edit or delete this post. They are a sick bunch of bastards, but Christianity was even worse when it was allowed to run amok and have a big influence on government. If government really wants to do something useful, it should start teaching people that any type of indoctrination is wrong. They will never do that because they are trying to indoctrinate people, themselves. I think a secular society is best for everybody, I'm a firm believer in the separation of church & state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 Do you think that the Japanese should build a site to honor Japanese culture at Pearl Harbor? \ Maybe not on Pearl Harbour...but two blocks away should be fine. Also, I didn't realize that Japanese was a religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 Maybe we should build a Gay and Lesbian Community Center right next door..... Why not? There are already several nearby, from what I hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 Seems like you're not sure what a democracy is. Seems like you're not sure what Constitutional protections are for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xr7g428 Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 Maybe not on Pearl Harbour...but two blocks away should be fine. Also, I didn't realize that Japanese was a religion. Is that supposed to be funny? Have you ever been to Pearl Harbor? Such disrespect is disgusting. Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Only so much stupidity can be excused by immaturity. Stand at that memorial, over the bodies of those brave men, and suggest this, but don't be surprised if some grizzled old Marine knocks your head off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 Is that supposed to be funny? Have you ever been to Pearl Harbor? Such disrespect is disgusting. Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Only so much stupidity can be excused by immaturity. Stand at that memorial, over the bodies of those brave men, and suggest this, but don't be surprised if some grizzled old Marine knocks your head off. There is indoctrination, and following the rules to a T even when they are distasteful, and then there is common sense. Common sense trumps rules carried ad absurdium. There are too many rules and too little independent thought. People are so brainwashed and indoctrinated that they have to look up what is moral and what is immoral instead of intuitively knowing it. What do you think is the motivation behind the decision to build a mosque near ground zero? These are supposed to be moral righteous sensitive religious people. If they were, they would not want to do this. It must be something else. They want to erect a monument to their great victory against America. Many people secretly admire what the terrorists did. Why else would they not be offended by this abomination? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted August 21, 2010 Author Share Posted August 21, 2010 (edited) There is indoctrination, and following the rules to a T even when they are distasteful, and then there is common sense. Common sense trumps rules carried ad absurdium. There are too many rules and too little independent thought. People are so brainwashed and indoctrinated that they have to look up what is moral and what is immoral instead of intuitively knowing it. What do you think is the motivation behind the decision to build a mosque near ground zero? These are supposed to be moral righteous sensitive religious people. If they were, they would not want to do this. It must be something else. They want to erect a monument to their great victory against America. Many people secretly admire what the terrorists did. Why else would they not be offended by this abomination? Best post l have seen on BON for ages, nice post Trim. If you were a Muslim living in New York a place that already has over a 100 mosques and you had just one little shred of moral decency in your bones, first thing you would think is we won't build the new mosque anywhere near ground zero as a mark off respect to those non Muslim Americans that were the majority killed by Islamic extremest terrorists. Gotta say l have lost all the respect that l once had for President Obama who l used to hold in very high regard, l have seen a new immoral dark side of him that l don't like one bit. You can't tar all American Muslims with the same brush as the Muslim tossers that flew Boeings into the trade center building, But you should damm well have the upmost respect of all the non-Muslims that got killed in 911 that includes not being sooooooooooh insensitive as to want to build a mosque on 911's doorstep. Nobody is saying you cant build more mosques, just build it somewhere elsewhere. Obama is starting to backtrack on the 911 ground zero mosque, as 911 families label him "insensitive and uncaring" LINK I was hoping to visit ground zero to pay my respects to all those that died there before l die (That includes the 911 Muslim Americans that got killed by Muslims that just shows the pointlessness of it all), l would love to visit a fire station/police/medical brave rescue services in the 911 area just to thank those brave hero's that put there lifes on the line for others. But you can't feel the Big Apple will become the rotten Apple with a mosque sitting on the door step of 911. It will make me cringe and hate the selfish thoughtless inconsiderate immoral vulgar insensitive uncaring Muslim New Yorkers for showing no reverence or moral compass when they could have built a new mosque anywhere else within New York but chose 911's doorstep, l am very very offended by the choice of location of it, it is sad and scary. Never Forget 911 Edited August 21, 2010 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 (edited) Is that supposed to be funny? Have you ever been to Pearl Harbor? Such disrespect is disgusting. Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Only so much stupidity can be excused by immaturity. Stand at that memorial, over the bodies of those brave men, and suggest this, but don't be surprised if some grizzled old Marine knocks your head off. Do you blame all Japanese, even those born today, for Pearl Harbour? Do you blame all muslims for 9/11? Where does so called sacred ground end? Is it one block away? Two blocks? Seventeen? Should all Muslims feel guilt for 9/11? Should they somehow abandon their rights because some people feel that their own moral compass should apply to everyone? There is no question here. The muslims planning to build the cultural centre, complete with prayer room, are doing nothing wrong and have nothing to do with 9/11. They should not feel guilt and they have no reason to discontinue their plans. Similarly, people have a right to protest it....they're just being somewhat hypocritical about it, since I doubt they would mind if a giant church was built on the very site, never mind two blocks away. Oh, and Pearl Harbour has nothing to do with this. As I've already said, Japanese, las I checked, was not a religion, and two blocks away from something was not on something. I don't blame today's Japanese for Pearl Harbour (not should you) and I don't blame all muslims for 9/11. Edited August 21, 2010 by suv_guy_19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibinubu12 Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 Do you blame all Japanese, even those born today, for Pearl Harbour? Do you blame all muslims for 9/11? Where does so called sacred ground end? Is it one block away? Two blocks? Seventeen? Should all Muslims feel guilt for 9/11? Should they somehow abandon their rights because some people feel that their own moral compass should apply to everyone? There is no question here. The muslims planning to build the cultural centre, complete with prayer room, are doing nothing wrong and have nothing to do with 9/11. They should feel guilt and they have no reason to discontinue their plans. Similarly, people have a right to protest it....they're just being somewhat hypocritical about it, since I doubt they would mind if a giant church was built on the very site, never mind two blocks away. Oh, and Pearl Harbour has nothing to do with this. As I've already said, Japanese, las I checked, was not a religion, and two blocks away from something was not on something. I don't blame today's Japanese for Pearl Harbour (not should you) and I don't blame all muslims for 9/11. Exactly. I'm Italian - should I feel guilty for Mussolini? I am Christian - should I feel guilty for the Inquisition? Where does it end? Why can we punish people for things they did not do? I thought we were better than that in this country. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_A Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 Do you blame all Japanese, even those born today, for Pearl Harbour? Do you blame all muslims for 9/11? Where does so called sacred ground end? Is it one block away? Two blocks? Seventeen? Should all Muslims feel guilt for 9/11? Should they somehow abandon their rights because some people feel that their own moral compass should apply to everyone? There is no question here. The muslims planning to build the cultural centre, complete with prayer room, are doing nothing wrong and have nothing to do with 9/11. They should feel guilt and they have no reason to discontinue their plans. Similarly, people have a right to protest it....they're just being somewhat hypocritical about it, since I doubt they would mind if a giant church was built on the very site, never mind two blocks away. Oh, and Pearl Harbour has nothing to do with this. As I've already said, Japanese, las I checked, was not a religion, and two blocks away from something was not on something. I don't blame today's Japanese for Pearl Harbour (not should you) and I don't blame all muslims for 9/11. I don't blame all Muslims for 9-11, and I believe that in the United States, they should be allowed to practice their religion, but I do not, under any circumstance, like the idea of a new mosque anywhere within a couple of miles of Ground Zero. I have zero tolerance for the idea of that mosque being located that close to Ground Zero. Anything, in the way of a community center or mosque that's was all ready there, with in a couple of miles, should be allowed to stay, but not allowed to expand. Ever. And while I believe that Muslims should be allowed to practice their religion in the USA, I do not, under any circumstance, approve of burqas, chadors, or hijabs, nor any partial or full face coverings for the Muslim women in American society. They can go ahead and cover their heads if they wish, but no more than that. And around here on BOF, remember, I'm considered a liberal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 Well, you may be considered a liberal, but on this issue, you aren't one. Your argument is completely emotional. Why do we need to set up a muslim buffer zone around ground zero? I'm not sure I like how that sounds.....at all. As for muslim cultural and religious wear, either you do believe in freedom or religion, or you don't (within the principles of the law). Face covering is part of the religion for some of them, and outside of where facial identification is necessary, there's nothing to support it's ban. It is just as protected under the constitution as any other part of religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_A Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 Well, you may be considered a liberal, but on this issue, you aren't one. Your argument is completely emotional. Why do we need to set up a muslim buffer zone around ground zero? I'm not sure I like how that sounds.....at all. As for muslim cultural and religious wear, either you do believe in freedom or religion, or you don't (within the principles of the law). Face covering is part of the religion for some of them, and outside of where facial identification is necessary, there's nothing to support it's ban. It is just as protected under the constitution as any other part of religion. Guilty as charged, with no apologies. 9/11 changed my view on certain subjects. This is one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 Exactly. I'm Italian - should I feel guilty for Mussolini? I am Christian - should I feel guilty for the Inquisition? Where does it end? Why can we punish people for things they did not do? I thought we were better than that in this country. Whether or not you feel guilt for Mussolini, and you shouldn't, is not the point. I come from a Christian background, but after learning about the Inquisition, I am now totally against them, and in my opinion, everybody should be. The same goes for Islam. People should have the freedom to stupidly follow whatever religion or ideology they want, but not shove it in the faces of people who are more sensible. Who is being punished more here? Is it the Muslims who will have to perform their medieval rituals some place else; or is it the rest of us who will have to endure the pain of having to view the symbols of the sick religion that drove fanatics to cause such carnage against us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmccap Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 Left and the Right Demagogue Mosque, Islam “Is the controversy over building a mosque near ground zero a grand distraction or a grand opportunity? Or is it, once again, grandiose demagoguery? “It has been said, “Nero fiddled while Rome burned.” Are we not overly preoccupied with this controversy, now being used in various ways by grandstanding politicians? It looks to me like the politicians are “fiddling while the economy burns.” “The outcry over the building of the mosque, near ground zero, implies that Islam alone was responsible for the 9/11 attacks. According to those who are condemning the building of the mosque, the nineteen suicide terrorists on 9/11 spoke for all Muslims. This is like blaming all Christians for the wars of aggression and occupation because some Christians supported the neo-conservative’s aggressive wars. “The House Speaker is now treading on a slippery slope by demanding a Congressional investigation to find out just who is funding the mosque—a bold rejection of property rights, 1st Amendment rights, and the Rule of Law—in order to look tough against Islam. “This is all about hate and Islamaphobia. “We now have an epidemic of “sunshine patriots” on both the right and the left who are all for freedom, as long as there’s no controversy and nobody is offended. “Political demagoguery rules when truth and liberty are ignored.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted August 21, 2010 Author Share Posted August 21, 2010 (edited) No doubt Obama would be full of praise if British Muslims decided to build a new mosque next to the smoking hole of the Lockerbie Pan Am 747 bomb site as a tribute to Muslim culture in the area. Obama no doubt would be pleased to do the opening ceremony at the Lockerbie site and cut the ribbon as a tribute to local Scottish Muslim culture in the area. Mosque built on the 911 doorstep is an absolute bloody disgrace it could have built elsewhere. Nobody wants to deny them a mosque but please build it is a place thats not so sensitive to Non Muslim Americans. Muslims can't play the we hate them card, because nobody hates American Muslims including myself. l just want this mosque to be built elsewhere somewhere less provocative a location. If l was a decent good caring American Muslim the first thing l would say, 911's doorstep is very the last place in the US that a new mosque should be built, please build anywhere but there. It is absolutely outrageous to even consider think about building a mosque on 911's door step it is an absolute disgrace of the highest order. Edited August 21, 2010 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B. Morrow Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 No doubt Obama would be full of praise if British Muslims decided to build a new mosque next to the smoking hole of the Lockerbie Pan Am 747 bomb site as a tribute to Muslim culture in the area. Obama no doubt would be pleased to do the opening ceremony at the Lockerbie site and cut the ribbon as a tribute to local Scottish Muslim culture in the area. Mosque built on the 911 doorstep is an absolute bloody disgrace it could have built elsewhere. Nobody wants to deny them a mosque but please build it is a place thats not so sensitive to Non Muslim Americans. Muslims can't play the we hate them card, because nobody hates American Muslims including myself. l just want this mosque to be built elsewhere somewhere less provocative a location. If l was a decent good caring American Muslim the first thing l would say, 911's doorstep is very the last place in the US that a new mosque should be built, please build anywhere but there. It is absolutely outrageous to even consider think about building a mosque on 911's door step it is an absolute disgrace of the highest order. Thankfully you don't get to vote in our elections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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