If a mosque opens at Ground Zero on 9/11 next year,Obama can kiss the White House goodbye

[Edstock]

"The CIA data was wrong" And the CIA is an arm of the repub's? Are you saying the data wouldn't of been wrong if a dem had been in power? Or the dem's would have been able to see that it was wrong?

How about the government acted on false info. (regardless of who was in power) I agree, that's what happened: the government acted on false info — but there are indications in the memo-trail that the senior people "wanted" it that way, so the spook community just "went along to get along".

 

Or, how about this, "the cia was wrong" is your opinion. Lots has been said about what was and wasn't there. What was "reported" and what was on the ground could be two totally different things.

 

And yes, this is my "opinion".

Who was in power? the Repub's. Who's war was it? America's. Who was in power at the start of WW2? Was it then their war? It was a collective effort. Everyone agreed something had to be done/Saddam taken out.

 

And besides all of this, do you think the world would be a better place today if the second gulf war never happened? Yes indeed. The Iraq insurgency would not have happened, and world-wide recruiting for insurgents would have been harder for the fundamentalists; as well, the US would not have weakened the forces in Afghanistan to do Iraq, and they probably could have destroyed the Taliban in Afghanistan. Do you honestly believe that just threatening saddam forever would of stopped him in any way? Yes, I honestly believe that just threatening saddam forever would of stopped him in any way, because after the first go-round, he had lost most of his war-making capability, and every day, opposition to him was growing in Iraq, thanks to the no-fly zones imposed by the USAF, which allowed the Kurds and others to take control in their areas. What alternative world do you see today if the second (or the first for that matter) gulf war never happened?We'll never know, but if the US hadn't gotten diverted to Iraq, the Taliban would have been out of Afghanistan, and that whole area would have been pacified; Iran's Mahmoud Ineedadinnerjacket woulld be cat-fighting with Saddam, if Saddam had not been murdered by one of the Iraqi Baathist party members.

 

Life would be all peaches and cream if the gulf wars never happened? Really? I've never suggested that; I don't know what your motivation is, apart from sarcasm. The statement is preposterous: how life could be all peaches and cream in a universe of Dick Cheney and the Foggy Bottom Weasels is absurd. Perhaps the question should be "Life would be all peaches and cream if the second gulf war never happened? Just guessing, but Obama probably would not be President.

 

Sounds a little "chamberlin" to me. More than a little. I assume you're referring to Neville Chamberlain's dismal appeasement effort with Hitler. There too, there was a complete intelligence failure, just like Iraq. The SIS/MI6 gang had gotten blindsided by Schellenberg's SD at Venlo, and Wallace Simpson had the royal family in catatonia, so Eddie and Wallie's high-level Nazi contacts were not explored. There's a wiki on it. CIA/MI6 had no humint assets in Saddam's reich. So we got yellowcake and aluminum tubes. Used by people with a particular agenda to "game" the system.

[goinbroke2]

I agree, that's what happened: the government acted on false info — but there are indications in the memo-trail that the senior people "wanted" it that way, so the spook community just "went along to get along". Your opinion

 

Yes indeed. The Iraq insurgency would not have happened, and world-wide recruiting for insurgents would have been harder for the fundamentalists; as well, the US would not have weakened the forces in Afghanistan to do Iraq, and they probably could have destroyed the Taliban in Afghanistan. Harder or not the bad guys were still blowing stuff up. Not on the same scale as after perhaps but still they had to be stopped or at least confronted.

 

Yes, I honestly believe that just threatening saddam forever would of stopped him in any way, because after the first go-round, he had lost most of his war-making capability, and every day, opposition to him was growing in Iraq, thanks to the no-fly zones imposed by the USAF, which allowed the Kurds and others to take control in their areas. I don't believe it because it was worse the 8th year than the 6th which was worse than the 3rd which....it WAS getting worse, that is why they finally decided "if he won't do as we tell him, we'll shut him down". Saddam was believing his own bullshit, he got knocked down a peg. (or more LOL)

 

We'll never know, but if the US hadn't gotten diverted to Iraq, the Taliban would have been out of Afghanistan, and that whole area would have been pacified; Iran's Mahmoud Ineedadinnerjacket woulld be cat-fighting with Saddam, if Saddam had not been murdered by one of the Iraqi Baathist party members.

I wouldn't say the whole area pacified, quite possibly pushed them into pakistan, we would of followed and all hell would of broke loose. Your idea of somebody getting so pissed at saddam as to bump him off is probably right on. He had a tight grip on his troops so it might of ended like valkarie or along those lines but quite possible.

 

Iran's Mahmoud Ineedadinnerjacket BWAHAHAHAHA! THAT WAS FUNNY!

 

 

More than a little. I assume you're referring to Neville Chamberlain's dismal appeasement effort with Hitler. There too, there was a complete intelligence failure, just like Iraq. The SIS/MI6 gang had gotten blindsided by Schellenberg's SD at Venlo, and Wallace Simpson had the royal family in catatonia, so Eddie and Wallie's high-level Nazi contacts were not explored. There's a wiki on it. CIA/MI6 had no humint assets in Saddam's reich. So we got yellowcake and aluminum tubes. Used by people with a particular agenda to "game" the system.

Yes that's who I meant. I'm not going to outright trust wiki. We got yellow cake and tubes....who used them for what and who's agenda is speculation/opinion.

I don't know what was or was not found there as I wasn't there. However, having been places and "seen" things in those places I can most assuredly tell you that Canada has been involved in one hell of a lot more than the public knows. I have personally seen/done things which where never recorded or were recorded completely fabricated. Obviously I not only don't want to go into detail, but by law I cannot go into detail. Perhaps after I retire I'll write a book? LOL!

There is a book out about UN peacekeeping, it's on Gen Dalaire. A female wrote it, forget the name. In it there's a story on somalia and when the hospital compound was under attack. A mechanic (not me but a guy I knew) and a medic were credited with saving a bunch of lives. The story is about....HALF there. There is so much more that cannot be published.

Was there WMD? I don't know and unless I talk to someone who was there who will say yea or nay, I'll take all the "reporting" with a grain of salt. NOBODY except the 14 of us that were there know about how the Canadian contingent went into Yugoslavia from germany by rail and what we did. The war was still on and we 14 cleared the tracks for the battalion that was left behind in slovenia. When the tracks were clear the troops rolled on down to Duravar. There is NOTHING ANYWHERE recorded what happened. As far as all press releases go, the battalion left from Lahr fully kit'd up ammo and all and went by train to duravar where we got out and set up camp. All happy, no problems etc.

[BlackHorse]

Nevermind arguing with that silly drone goinbroke. If the last 18 months of corruption, lies and epic failure of the democrat party haven't opened his eyes than nothing we say will. He can't accept that his favorite political party has lied to it's a constiuents and consistently delivered the exact opposite of what they have promised the American people. One of these days he'll wake up and when he does it is my hope that he will side with the people in this country that actually do believe in freedom, liberty and limiting the power of an overly intrusive government.. And no Edstock that does not automatically mean the republican party. It's just the party with the closest set of ideas to what is right for the people.

[Deanh]

Nevermind arguing with that silly drone goinbroke. If the last 18 months of corruption, lies and epic failure of the democrat party haven't opened his eyes than nothing we say will. He can't accept that his favorite political party has lied to it's a constiuents and consistently delivered the exact opposite of what they have promised the American people. One of these days he'll wake up and when he does it is my hope that he will side with the people in this country that actually do believe in freedom, liberty and limiting the power of an overly intrusive government.. And no Edstock that does not automatically mean the republican party. It's just the party with the closest set of ideas to what is right for the people.

hey, that could apply to both parties, irrespective of whom is in power...its a bloody joke, and NOT just here...when ones in power they are lying ba$tards and its the opposing parties turn to fling mud, and when the roles are reversed its the same MO....personally I give up and ignore as much as I can...and I can guarantee I'm NOT a minority....some say get rid of all the dinosaurs in Congress....and replace them with what...youngr "talent"?....seriously i have NO answer...one thing i will say though, the money put aside for campaining DISGUSTS me....I say NO funds, NO money from supporters for hall meetins...NOTHING, have a Channel for nothing else, put the $ to usage where its needed ( flood victims and TAXPAYERS in dire need ) and let the voters decide...

[goinbroke2]

Yeah the political crap on here is a little deep.

I agree that the problem is both sides. Repub and Dem (or here conser/lib/ndp) all have their own agenda. The difference I guess that here with a minority gov, the party in power can't run away with stupidity. And with 3 major parties and several more minor parties there will always be a "neutralising" effect with each other.

With the 2 party system, if both are hard core bad on the opposite ends of the spectrum, there is no common sense middle ground.

 

"side with the people in this country that actually do believe in freedom, liberty and limiting the power of an overly intrusive government"

Now THAT is what I believe the States stands for. ANYBODY has the freedom to advance themselves in any direction, without interference from anyone else. If you have a dream and work hard at it, you will achieve it. Whether you actually achieve it or not has many factors, but the fact that you have the FREEDOM to try is what's important.

 

If you have a poor plan, you have the right to pursue it. Example, I have a dream to sell purple sneakers, work really hard but in the end go bankrupt because there isn't enough demand to keep me in business.

Some will look at it as a failure, the entreprenure will look at it as experience for the next business they open. (lessons learned, business feasability plan)

 

What gets me is the ones who either think the government is the answer and should support everyone, (nanny state) Or think that they should save anyone from failing (bailing out so they never learn, continually getting bailout money to further sell purple sneakers in a market that won't support them)

Either way, the freedom loving entreprenuer takes the hit and is discourage from succeeding.

They have;

1) massive taxes to support EVERYONE and keep all the little purple sneaker companies in business, or

2) They never learn their mistakes and just keep sucking up government money, buying into the "I'm too stupid to operate without the government" mentality.

 

I believe in the "get the government the hell out of the way and let me operate my business with as little interference as possible, understanding that rules and regulation are required" mentality.

Make the tax form simple, I'll pay them. Make them a nightmare and I'll make mistakes. If I make mistakes and I'm hammered to the wall then fuck ya, I'll not record every sale by taking cash and no reciept etc!

Keep my taxes low, I'll reinvest the money back into my company by expanding/hiring etc. (like EVERY small business owner does)

Keep my taxes high and I'll be tight with the money because I'll have less in my pocket.

 

Some don't understand that it's better to sell 100 items for $1.00 with 5% tax then to sell 25 items for $1.25 with 10% tax. THE GOVERNMENT ACTUALLY GETS MORE MONEY AT THE LOWER RATE!!!

 

And this is completely beside the point that the money is the persons first, who gives a percentage to the government. As opposed to the government "losing" money because taxes are lowered??? The government lost money it doesn't own?? WTF??

[Trimdingman]

Yeah the political crap on here is a little deep.

I agree that the problem is both sides. Repub and Dem (or here conser/lib/ndp) all have their own agenda. The difference I guess that here with a minority gov, the party in power can't run away with stupidity. And with 3 major parties and several more minor parties there will always be a "neutralising" effect with each other.

With the 2 party system, if both are hard core bad on the opposite ends of the spectrum, there is no common sense middle ground.

 

"side with the people in this country that actually do believe in freedom, liberty and limiting the power of an overly intrusive government"

Now THAT is what I believe the States stands for. ANYBODY has the freedom to advance themselves in any direction, without interference from anyone else. If you have a dream and work hard at it, you will achieve it. Whether you actually achieve it or not has many factors, but the fact that you have the FREEDOM to try is what's important.

 

If you have a poor plan, you have the right to pursue it. Example, I have a dream to sell purple sneakers, work really hard but in the end go bankrupt because there isn't enough demand to keep me in business.

Some will look at it as a failure, the entreprenure will look at it as experience for the next business they open. (lessons learned, business feasability plan)

 

What gets me is the ones who either think the government is the answer and should support everyone, (nanny state) Or think that they should save anyone from failing (bailing out so they never learn, continually getting bailout money to further sell purple sneakers in a market that won't support them)

Either way, the freedom loving entreprenuer takes the hit and is discourage from succeeding.

They have;

1) massive taxes to support EVERYONE and keep all the little purple sneaker companies in business, or

2) They never learn their mistakes and just keep sucking up government money, buying into the "I'm too stupid to operate without the government" mentality.

 

I believe in the "get the government the hell out of the way and let me operate my business with as little interference as possible, understanding that rules and regulation are required" mentality.

Make the tax form simple, I'll pay them. Make them a nightmare and I'll make mistakes. If I make mistakes and I'm hammered to the wall then fuck ya, I'll not record every sale by taking cash and no reciept etc!

Keep my taxes low, I'll reinvest the money back into my company by expanding/hiring etc. (like EVERY small business owner does)

Keep my taxes high and I'll be tight with the money because I'll have less in my pocket.

 

Some don't understand that it's better to sell 100 items for $1.00 with 5% tax then to sell 25 items for $1.25 with 10% tax. THE GOVERNMENT ACTUALLY GETS MORE MONEY AT THE LOWER RATE!!!

 

And this is completely beside the point that the money is the persons first, who gives a percentage to the government. As opposed to the government "losing" money because taxes are lowered??? The government lost money it doesn't own?? WTF??

 

 

How much does the government get if the company gets so fed up with government that they move their business to China? Government is the problem. Government will not cut itself. The people have to say that enough is enough before the market does it for them; and if that happens, it won't be pretty.