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Ford Jellymoulds

If a mosque opens at Ground Zero on 9/11 next year,Obama can kiss the White House goodbye

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DAILY MAIL...

If a mosque opens at Ground Zero on 9/11 next year, Obama can kiss the White House goodbye

 

Nine years after 9/11, the site of the Twin Towers is still an open sore on the face of New York — a festering reminder of the terror attack which claimed almost 3,000 lives.

 

To add insult to injury, in the eyes of the victims' families and the majority of Americans, approval has just been granted for a mosque to be built two blocks away from Ground Zero.

 

What began as a local planning dispute could come to determine the fate of Barack Obama's Presidency.

 

In favour: America's liberal elite. Against: 70 per cent of the American people. With crucial mid-term elections looming in November, the President finds himself marooned on the wrong side of public opinion. It could cost him control of

Congress and, in two years' time, the White House itself. At an event to mark the Muslim festival of Ramadan, Obama backed the plans for a mosque and Islamic cultural centre 400 yards from Ground Zero, saying: 'As a citizen and a President, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practise their religion as anyone else in this country.

 

'That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community centre on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances.'

 

He also managed to ignite the Bible Belt and God-fearing,and moderate Middle America by proclaiming that Islam was a major force in 'advancing justice, progress, tolerance and the dignity of all human beings' and had 'always been part of America'.

 

In so doing, he displayed an ignorance of history which made David Cameron's recent confusion over the timing of America's entry into World War II look like a minor clerical error.

 

Obama's words would have come as a surprise not only to the Founding Fathers, who established the United States on concrete Christian principles, but also to those unfortunate women being stoned to death and subjugated in the more barbaric outposts of Islam.

 

The President's inept intervention hosed fuel on the flames of a furore which has been smouldering for months. His attempts to backtrack 24 hours later only made him look weak and indecisive.

 

This all began when an Islamic group submitted plans to convert a former clothing factory. Despite local protests, City officials could see no lawful impediment to the mosque/cultural centre being built.

 

In that respect, Obama is absolutely right when he talks about 'local laws and ordinances'. He is also perfectly justified in defending America's constitutionally protected religious freedom.

 

But his reaction was characteristically legalistic, when it should have been empathetic. He concentrated on

 

When I was in the U.S. a few weeks ago, it was obvious that this had the potential to explode on to the national stage. The radio talk shows buzzed with indignation. Sarah Palin, the pin-up of the populist Tea Party movement, was busily Twittering her opposition.

 

After Newt Gingrich, a potential Republican Presidential candidate in 2012, likened the mosque to planting a swastika at a Holocaust memorial, or a Japanese cultural centre at Pearl Harbour, it went nuclear.

 

Gingrich's deliberately incendiary analogy hit its intended target. America's liberal elite spasmed into overdrive, branding all opposition to the mosque as being motived by bigotry and religious hatred, in an attempt to shut down debate.

 

 

 

Speaker Nancy Pelosi accused campaigners of being part of Hillary Clinton's imaginary 'vast Right-wing conspiracy'.

 

It was as predictable as Britain's self-styled 'liberal' establishment's track record of smearing anyone who expresses doubts about unlimited immigration as a knuckle-dragging, BNP racist.

 

At a stroke, almost three-quarters of Americans were written off as 'bigots'. Unlike Britain, though, America's silent majority refuses to be cowed into submission.

 

Of course, the crazies have come crawling out of the woodwork. Obama has always attracted conspiracy theorists who think he is a Muslim 'sleeper'; emphasise his middle name, Hussein; and refuse even to accept that he was born in the United States.

 

The more extreme opponents point out that the group behind the plan want to call the project 'Cordoba House' — in honour of the Spanish city where medieval Islamic invaders erected a mosque on the site of a razed Roman Catholic cathedral to mark their conquest of Christianity.

 

But just because batty Sarah Palin is against the mosque, it doesn't automatically mean she's wrong.

 

In their determination to display their 'tolerance' of other religions, the supporters of the mosque have paraded their own ingrained intolerance of anyone who disagrees with them.

 

By proclaiming their 'sensitivity' towards Islam they have demonstrated their utter insensitivity to the vast majority of Americans, primarily the 9/11 families.

 

The establishment's fundamental mistake was trying to treat this application as a local matter

 

Blue-collar New Jersey and bluegrass Kentucky have just as big a stake in the future of this tragic site as the wealthy bien-pensant population of Manhattan's Upper East Side, epitomised by New York's billionaire

 

Democrat-turned-Republican-turned-Independent mayor Michael Bloomberg.

 

It is hallowed ground, a shrine as holy as any of the Muslim 'holy cities' which America's mainstream media insist are routinely violated by U.S. troops.

 

The enthusiasm for this mosque is contrasted starkly with the conspicuous failure to rebuild the Twin Towers after nine years; refusal of planning permission for the rebuilding of a nearby Greek Orthodox church damaged in the attacks; and failure to implement a promise to meet the health care costs of rescue workers who sustained debilitating illnesses and injuries on 9/11.

 

In any debate about Islam, it is obligatory to emphasise that the vast majority of Muslims are peace-loving etc. No one is arguing with that proposition.

 

But it remains indisputable that 9/11 was an attack carried out by Muslims, in the name of an admittedly insane form of their faith.

 

What seems to be forgotten in this case, as so often when it comes to dealing with Islam, is that tolerance is a two-way street. This isn't about freedom to worship. There are already 100 official mosques in New York's five boroughs, and more than 1,800 across America.

 

So the question is: Why here? Why now? Why a stone's throw from Ground Zero? There's no Muslim population in this part of Manhattan. It's a business district.

 

New York's Governor David Paterson has offered the mosque's backers an alternative site, away from Ground Zero, but has so far been rebuffed. It is difficult not to conclude that the location of this project is designed deliberately to be provocative.

 

While Pelosi and others have questioned the motives of the mosque's opponents, there has been little investigation into its backers.

 

Most of the money is said to be coming from Saudi Arabia, which would never allow a Christian church to be built in Riyadh. That should, of course be irrelevant given America's tradition of religious freedom — but somehow, in this context, it isn't.

 

The imam at the centre is Faisal Abdul Rauf, a 'moderate' who has advised the FBI and the State Department. But like so many 'moderates' this imam speaks with forked tongue, rather like some of the dubious characters seconded by our own Home Office and Scotland Yard over the past few years.

 

Rauf has called America an 'accessory to 9/11' and says Osama bin Laden was 'born in the USA'.

 

Barack Obama has nailed himself to the side of this mosque and is struggling to wriggle free. Worryingly for the President, two-thirds of voters who define themselves as 'independents' — and who swept him to victory in 2008 — are vehemently opposed to the plan.

 

At a time when 56 per cent of Americans disapprove of his handling of the economy, this is one distraction Obama doesn't need and should have been bright enough to avoid.

 

His own party is split on the issue, with even Senate majority leader Harry Reid coming out against the mosque, as he tries to cling on to his own seat in November.

 

The President's best hope is that Imam Rauf and his backers accept the offer of an alternative site. But the fall-out will linger.

 

One report claims the mosque is due to open on September 11, 2011 — the 10th anniversary of the terror attacks.

 

If that's true, Obama can kiss the White House goodbye.

 

LINK

 

Gotta say this is absolutely outrageous man, yes the world admires the "Land of the Free" and the right for Muslims to worship in a Mosque freely.

 

But are Muslims just a bit thick or just plain stupid and totally unsensitive. If they were good Muslims they would have built a new mosque at least 20 miles away to keep the peace, did they really not honestly think this would not be controversial and not cause trouble. This is bang out of order.

 

I am not racist or anti Muslim but this stinks absolutely rotten man there needs to be a massive protest march, maybe 50,000 Harley biker could do a sponsered drive through like we had at Wooten Bassett as protest at Muslims that wanted to do a troublemaking march through a rural small garrison town near RAF Lyneham which brings home dead armed forces. As a mark of respect locals always turn out in their thousands as a mark of respect to our brave troops.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtjJJU624MU&feature=related

 

15,000 bikers raise money for and pay tribute to our brave troops Wooton Basset.

Edited by Ford Jellymoulds

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I say build it (assuming you can find laborers who'll do it), and let the FBI/NSA wire it so extensively they could hear a gnat fart.

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I say build it (assuming you can find laborers who'll do it), and let the FBI/NSA wire it so extensively they could hear a gnat fart.

 

 

LOL

 

I am a very tolerant person, but the Muslims are taking the pissori out of you, why could have it not be built it somewhere else about 20 miles away?

 

 

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LOL

 

I am a very tolerant person, but the Muslims are taking the pissori out of you, why could have it not be built it somewhere else about 20 miles away?

"Tolerance" and "acceptance" are not the same thing.

 

It CAN be built somewhere else, but it wouldn't have the same effect as building it right where they plan. What you aren't getting is my view on this.

 

I'm ok with it being built for two reasons.....

 


  1.  
  2. There is nothing illegal about it. They have every right, for religious reasons and for matters of private property. Obama is right on that.
     
  3. The "effect" I'm referring to isn't the one that applies to the Muslim community, but on the rest of America. We NEED to be reminded of who we are dealing with. We NEED to be reminded what (some of) these people are really all about. We NEED to have our faces slapped, so we never forget what these people really want.

 

Anyone (muslim or otherwise) who doesn't realize the effect on America of putting the mosque there is either patently stupid, or intentionally offensive. And I know they aren't stupid.

 

They know what they're doing, and the mosque should remind all of us we should get our (collective) act together.

 

Maybe we'll finally realize these extremists have no interest in getting along.

Edited by RangerM

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The voice of the majority cannot be used to impose their will on the minority. There is nothing illegal about this mosque. Those who oppose it are more than welcome to never enter it, but they can not and will not stop a legal entity from building a legal structure on property they own.

Edited by ibinubu12

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The voice of the majority cannot be used to impose their will on the minority. There is nothing illegal about this mosque. Those who oppose it are more than welcome to never enter it, but they can not and will not stop a legal entity from building a legal structure on property they own.

 

 

Yes you are right but it is a very insensitive place to want to build it don't you think, there was not much reverence shown towards Non Muslim Americans.

 

Nobody is say you can't have a mosque.

 

It should have been built elsewhere just as a mark of respect from Amercan Muslims to those that perished in 911 don't you think?

 

 

 

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Those muslims (who want to build) had nothing to do with 9/11. They've done nothing wrong, and they should be able to exercise their religious freedom now that the land has been rezoned.

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Yes you are right but it is a very insensitive place to want to build it don't you think, there was not much reverence shown towards Non Muslim Americans.

 

Nobody is say you can't have a mosque.

 

It should have been built elsewhere just as a mark of respect from Amercan Muslims to those that perished in 911 don't you think?

 

Perhaps it is in remembrance of the hundreds of American Muslims who died inside the towers of the World Trade Center...

Edited by ibinubu12

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This is all just b*****t. And don't talk to me about lives lost in 9/11. I lost two friends. One of them Muslim, in fact. And if I don't stand up, they're lives were lost for pettiness and idiocy. Nothing.

 

Let them build it. More importantly, help them build it. It embarrasses me completely how frightened and childish we are. If we should have learned anything in the last 9 years, it is that Islam != terrorism. But we haven't.

 

By the same arguments being made, we shouldn't have Christian community centers near the site of the Oklahoma City bombing. But we won't argue that because most of us are Christian, and we know that most Christians wouldn't do such a thing. We have no idea that there are 1B Muslims and the vast majority deplore terrorism just like we do. The other 0.01% of that group is not a reason to discriminate arbitrarily.

 

It brings serious questions of religious freedom and civil discourse in this country. If we're unwilling to allow a Muslim group to build a community center (no, it's not a mosque - sorry Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh), our bias is eliminating the religious freedom of a group of our population. If we're honestly willing to do that, the terrorists won. We're afraid. We're cowards. And it turns us towards bigotry. We don't even try to see the other side of the fence. All hope of real discourse is killed the moment the "T" word is trotted out. But Muslims are not terrorists. And I can't believe that we haven't even tried to collectively understand that in the last 9 years. And sadly, that will only lead to more acts of intolerance from terrorists and from us.

 

If there's no wrong-doing, criminal act, funding by terrorist faction or other illegality being committed so far (and it looks clean right now), then I see no reason to deny them the right to build. To do otherwise would continue a frightening trend of a majority badgering a minority in this country. And it's time to move past that and grow up.

 

EDIT: yes, I'm extremely offended. At all of this going on all over - not just the discourse here. Sorry to use this a vent.

Edited by focus05

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They have an absolute legal right to build it. They have an absolute moral right not to do so. Do you think that the Japanese should build a site to honor Japanese culture at Pearl Harbor? They have the good taste to know that it would not be appropriate. The killing was done in the name of Islam. Whether we want to white wash that away or not, the people who did it, and the people who support them, know that. Just because something is legal, doesn't make it a good idea.

 

The purpose of the thing is to make targets of themselves. This is not about peace love an understanding.

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Although it is perfectly legal, I do feel having a Muslim Community Center in that area to be in bad taste.

 

Maybe we should build a Gay and Lesbian Community Center right next door.....

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Perhaps it is in remembrance of the hundreds of American Muslims who died inside the towers of the World Trade Center...

 

7/7 bombings in London were carried out by youngsters who were born & bred in Britain, they came from and lived and were brought up in the isolated Muslim communities of Leeds & Bradford in the United Kingdom where Muslims make absolutely no attempt at all to integrate into mainstream British society they only shop in Muslim shops shun British shops but want to live off of British unemployment benefits so they can visit their local Leeds & Bradford mosques 10 times a day . These young Muslim bombers all attended the same mosques where they developed a distorted perverted view of the world by living an isolated Muslim lifestyle. Most other ethnic groups integrate very well into British society.

 

Nobody living in Britain deserved to have weapons of mass destructions used on them by these British born & bred Islamic terrorists. When the four suicide bombers let off the British made weapons of mass destruction killing 52 and maiming another 700 hundred that last thing on their minds was not oh we can't do this some of these folk might be a Muslim, the bombs were detonated knowing that the majority of folk that would be killed would be white & non Muslim why was the bomb not detonated in Bradford & Leeds where these Muslims lived, or nearby Southall in South West London which is home to one the biggest Muslim isolated non mixing communities in the UK, you won't see one non- Muslim person shopping or living there they in a little isolated Muslim world of there own totally oblivious to the real British world that lives around them.

 

If these were kind friendly decent Muslims they would have said we don't want to cause any offense cause maximum racial tension to the Non Muslim huge majority that died in 911 just as a mark of respect & better social cohesion we will build it outside the area, opening a bigger mosque at ground zero will lead to a typical influx of 10,000's of Muslims into the area which is bang out of order and cause a lot of trouble & maximum offence as Muslims take over this area on mass in a new isolated Muslim community. Yes there should be something to remember the Muslims that died in the trade centre, but not a new mosque most non-Muslim Americans would find it highly offensive when visiting the area to see 10,000's of Muslims going to pray at the the local mosque 10 times a day. If Americans opened up a church, strip joint or a gay club next to Mecca in Saudi Arabia HOME of most of the 911 bombers what do you think would happen? If this ever happen the builders would get death threats, if it ever got built as a symbol of Saudi Arabian tolerance to the west Saudi politicians would all be strung up and hanged with minutes the buildings would be bombed to bits and anybody coming out of a Saudi Arabian Christian church built next to Mecca would be stoned to death within seconds of leaving the church.

 

Sorry to say l don't agree with your views, l am not anti Muslim nobody is against or you having a mosque built, but please have a bit of thought for others other than your SELF by building it elsewhere as a mark of respect to the Non Muslim majority that died in 911.

 

This will only cause trouble and you know it will, Muslims are taking the pissori and you and l know it .

Edited by Ford Jellymoulds

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Those muslims (who want to build) had nothing to do with 9/11. They've done nothing wrong, and they should be able to exercise their religious freedom now that the land has been rezoned.

 

 

What good was it for them to accomplish such a coup: the destruction of the World Trade Centre, if they don't get to erect a great monument to commemorate it? The anti-American Muslims back home will be very proud.

 

Here's what I would build there to commemorate American-style freedom. One tower in the centre, 150 stories high. Surround it by five more towers 100 stories each. Build a structure similar to the Eiffel Tower over and around these five towers. On top of this, place a globe with the map of the earth, and on top of that, an eagle, with wings spread. This would be by far the tallest, most magnificent structure on the face of the earth.

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Those muslims (who want to build) had nothing to do with 9/11. They've done nothing wrong, and they should be able to exercise their religious freedom now that the land has been rezoned.

 

Makkahi_mukarramah.jpg

 

 

So you would be happy to see a 911 ground zero look something like this SUV GUY, l can't believe you just said that your absolutely outrageous man. What next beheadings & a public stoning for adultery as a 911 tourist attraction. New York already has 100 mosques in which they can worship in its 5 boroughs and nobody including myself is against that. But the location of this one shows no reverence to the Non Muslims that died in 911. I expect you would think Obama should go the full tolerance hog and turn the Whitehouse into a mosque as its the right shape if the Muslims could up with enough cash.

 

Ground zero is just a too a sensitive place to build a mosque its blatant troublemaking, any good decent Muslim would not want it to be built there. It shows a massive intolerance towards the non-Muslim Americans that perished in the twin towers.

Edited by Ford Jellymoulds

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Makkahi_mukarramah.jpg

 

 

 

 

So you would be happy to see a 911 ground zero look something like this SUV GUY, l can't believe you just said that your absolutely outrageous man. What next beheadings & a public stoning for adultery as a 911 tourist attraction.

"If anyone harms (others), God will harm him, and if anyone shows hostility to others, God will show hostility to him." Sunan of Abu-Dawood, Hadith 1625.

 

Estimates of the total number of Muslims range from 0.7 to 1.8 billion worldwide and 1.1 to 7 million in the U.S. 3 We accept the best estimate as 1.57 billion, concluded by the Pew Forums. About 23% of all people on Earth follow Islam. The religion is currently in a period of rapid growth.

 

Christianity is currently the largest religion in the world. It is followed by about 33% of all people -- a percentage that has remained stable for decades. If current trends continue, Islam will become the most popular world religion sometime in the mid-21st century.

 

 

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The voice of the majority cannot be used to impose their will on the minority.

 

Seems like you're not sure what a democracy is.

 

I guess you're one of these people who think the minority should set the rules for the rest to follow.

 

There is nothing illegal about this mosque.

 

I've never heard anyone say it was. Legal and moral are two different things

 

This reminds me of a story from a year ago or so. I believe it was the new Meadowlands Stadium in New Jersey. A German company, who had ties to the Nazis in WWII wanted to pay to have naming rights for the stadium. Even though the company has been apologizing for their role with the Nazis, many in the Jewish community were upset at the idea. Not wanting to offend, the company with drew it's bid.

 

There was no legal precedent to prevent them from doing so, but they recognized it was in bad taste, and decided not to do it.

 

The attempt to build this Mosque in that location (and yes, it is a Mosque) is in very bad taste. And people who love the USA should be able to recognize that. But it is clear that the people who want this built, would like to give the US and big fat "F&%K YOU"

 

Those who oppose it are more than welcome to never enter it, but they can not and will not stop a legal entity from building a legal structure on property they own.

 

Maybe we can just hijack a bus, loaded with explosives and drive it through the front doors, then rejoice in the greatest of the USA.

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I think the americans should buy some land and when it is zoned properly etc, build a tribute to the Enola Gay in Hiroshima, japan. After all, the people building it didn't drop the bomb, and if the land was bought legally and zoned properly...what could possibly be the problem?

 

Or buy some land etc in rome and build a tribute to hitler.

 

Legally yes they can do whatever they want. That's the freedom provided by the constitution which makes America so great.

Is it moral is the question.

 

No it is not.

 

Further, the erection of anything muslim at ground zero would have a tremendous effect on those muslims who are fanaticals. It would give them acceptance or confirmation that they are on a righteous holy cause. It would be proof positive they have beat the infidels.

 

It would go down in history as another "cordoba house".

 

 

How many swore after WW2 to "never forget"? How the States was bombed and the fury turned towards japan was thought to never die?

And yet those that were there and saw the attrocities and horror of the war have/are dying off and with it the rage against war. It took 65 years.

Now WW2 is what we see on the movie channel all glorious and righteous, an adventure.

 

Ranger was right, the states needs a slap in the face to remember that the world is a dangerous place and some don't like it.

For it to be less than a decade and the people who were outraged over 911 have "forgot" is incredible!

 

Do you remember where you were when you heard the news on 911? I certainly do.

That all the anguish and anger over being sucker-punched has now been forgotten is unbelievable!

 

9 YEARS!

 

ONLY 9 FREAKING YEARS!

 

Legally, yup your right they can do anything they want.

But morally?

 

Stop playing dumb, they have an agenda and they know their cause will be helped by america fighting within itself.

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The Crusades were expeditions undertaken, in fulfilment of a solemn vow, to deliver the Holy Places from Mohammedan tyranny. The origin of the word may be traced to the cross made of cloth and worn as a badge on the outer garment of those who took part in these enterprises. Medieval writers use the terms crux (pro cruce transmarina, Charter of 1284, cited by Du Cange s.v. crux), croisement (Joinville), croiserie (Monstrelet), etc. Since the Middle Ages the meaning of the word crusade has been extended to include all wars undertaken in pursuance of a vow, and directed against infidels, i.e. against Mohammedans, pagans, heretics, or those under the ban of excommunication. The wars waged by the Spaniards against the Moors constituted a continual crusade from the eleventh to the sixteenth century; in the north of Europe crusades were organized against the Prussians and Lithuanians; the extermination of the Albigensian heresy was due to a crusade, and, in the thirteenth century the popes preached crusades against John Lackland and Frederick II. But modern literature has abused the word by applying it to all wars of a religious character, as, for instance, the expedition of Heraclius against the Persians in the seventh century and the conquest of Saxony by Charlemagne.

 

It has been customary to describe the Crusades as eight in number:

Again... Religions breed bigots and intolerance.

 

And what is a "bigot"..? A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one exhibiting intolerance, irrationality, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs. The predominant usage in modern American English refers to persons hostile to those of differing race, ethnicity, nationality, sexual orientation and religion.

Edited by mettech

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"If anyone harms (others), God will harm him, and if anyone shows hostility to others, God will show hostility to him." Sunan of Abu-Dawood, Hadith 1625.

 

Estimates of the total number of Muslims range from 0.7 to 1.8 billion worldwide and 1.1 to 7 million in the U.S. 3 We accept the best estimate as 1.57 billion, concluded by the Pew Forums. About 23% of all people on Earth follow Islam. The religion is currently in a period of rapid growth.

 

Christianity is currently the largest religion in the world. It is followed by about 33% of all people -- a percentage that has remained stable for decades. If current trends continue, Islam will become the most popular world religion sometime in the mid-21st century.

 

 

 

You don't have to tell me that the UK is already well on the way to becoming a Muslim country, and when Muslims do become the majority they will be rewriting the laws of our country l fully expect that my daughters grandchildren might be forced into wearing black tents or white sheets forced upon them British law one day it won't affect or bother me l will be 6 ft under the ground when it happens. But a mosque built NOW at ground zero is absolutely outrageous Muslims already have 100 other places to worship in the Big Apple so its not really needed this is blatant troublemaking.

 

Will Britain one day be Muslim? This is the very sad unpolitical correct future, that the political correct of today will created for future generations when the Obama's political correct rulebook is torn up by Muslims in an unpolitical correct future world.

 

 

 

 

Daily Mail - Will Britain one day be Muslim? (Have a read Mettech it continues on your lines of an unstoppable Islamic population explosion in Britain)

 

This week has been another terrible one for those of us who want a society in which all races, religions and cultures mix to their mutual advantage and enrichment.

 

On Tuesday, five men were sentenced to life in prison for plotting to use a huge fertiliser bomb in what would have been the UK's largest mass murder.

 

Omar Khyam, Waheed Mahmood, Salahuddin Amin, Anthony Garcia and Jawad Akbar - first and second generation immigrants - responded to the tolerance of the British people by trying to kill as many of them as possible.

 

Is it absurd to hope that the exposure of their evil after a 13-month trial which cost an estimated £50 million has finally provided the wake-up call that this slumbering country so badly needs?

 

Or will we continue to allow the politically-correct lunatics to stay in charge of what is becoming an asylum?

I am one of those old-fashioned immigrants to this country who feels passionately grateful, is proudly British (as well as Irish - having been born in Dublin), and believes that immigrants have more duties than rights.

 

 

 

And, further, that one of those is to adjust to British society rather than expecting it to adjust to them.

 

However, one aspect of contemporary British society which I refuse to adjust to is its weakness in the face of the enemy within.

 

In my many conversations with like-minded people about the threat that radical Islam poses to the British way of lifen - and, indeed, to European civilisation - we frequently end by despairingly agreeing that the West seems intent on committing political and cultural suicide.

 

When we look starkly at the demographic statistics, the wimpishness of our Establishment in the face of the threat, the perversions perpetrated by political correctness and our own passivity, it's hard to avoid the conclusion that within a couple of generations, Islam will be in control in Europe.

 

Steyn sees this as a civil war which Europe is too timid even to acknowledge, let alone win. He says: "Islam has youth and will, Europe has age and welfare."

 

It's hard not to agree with Mark Steyn, especially as every day seems to bring more evidence that as a society we are terminally mad.

 

For example, this week's fertiliser bomb trial had heard that the key plotters had been radicalised by the hate preacher Omar Bakri Mohammed, whom the judge condemned as "a master of cowardice who lurked in the shadows".

 

This was the same firebrand who, as an asylum- seeker here, had pocketed £275,000 in welfare benefits.

 

A lot more on the subject the full story on the Muslim Islamic population explosion in Europe DAILY MAIL

LINK

Edited by Ford Jellymoulds

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.....l fully expect that my daughters grandchildren might be forced into wearing black tents or white sheets forced upon them British law one day it won't affect or bother me l will be 6 ft under the ground when it happens.

It would bother me to think my daughters/granddaughters would live under a system that advocates this form of punshment (under Sharia)

time_cover_0809.jpg

 

Call me an islamophobe, but I'd kill someone (or die trying) before I let this happen to my offspring.

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Personally, I like the description of this thread stating that if it is built, Obama is a post toasty in the next election.

 

While I understand everyones angst on this subject of the Mosque, you gotta wonder what Obama was thinking to even address the issue. You also have to wonder how much love the democrats in tight races for their political lives must feel towards him for opening this can of worms by even talking about his position in the matter. It has created the question to all politicians---->"do you support the Presidents position?" Lets face it, Obama never had to take any kind of stand on the issue, unless the building of that Mosque was denied by local government!

 

Now for the author of this thread---------->What conservatives/republicans/tea party people/independents fear the most in the next Presidential election is that by pounding on the President consistently now, he will either--->not run for re-election as he has no chance, or lose the nomination to run for a second term as his partys standard bearer. Hilly is in the wings, and while you hear most republicans whine about her husband, thoughts of Clinton 3 is a much better proposition to the USA then Obama 2. While that thinking may not exactly be reality as far as how things would go if she was elected, the selling of that idea to independents would be much more palatable then a Mr Obama second term. Just as the independents voted for Obama so as they did not get another republican that reminded them of GW, the same is going to happen this time in reverse...........unless the democrats put forth a candidate with a perceived track record of prosperity.......AKA; Hillary following the Bill model.

 

After this November, much will become clearer. If the dems get absolutely hammered, the race for the democratic presidential nomination will become political theatre the likes we have not seen since LBJ. For a political junkie like myself, it will become the most enjoyable political race of my adulthood.

 

Anyway, if Obama runs-------->ALMOST any opposing candidate will win. If the dems throw him overboard; or if he throws himself overboard, it is no longer a slam-dunk for sure!

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I guess you're one of these people who think the minority should set the rules for the rest to follow.

 

I suppose in you're one of the ones who would have defended the rights of the white majority in the 1800s to vote on slavery. Evidently you would have defended the rights the white majority to vote on the legality of biracial marriages.

 

We are NOT a democracy. They were very explicit when writing the Constitution that we were not a democracy. The tyranny of the majority is not something we can ever tolerate here when it is used to infringe upon the rights of a minority.

 

Maybe we can just hijack a bus, loaded with explosives and drive it through the front doors, then rejoice in the greatest of the USA.

 

Wow, that's some al-Qaeda like thinking right there. Remind me why your side is better again....

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It would bother me to think my daughters/granddaughters would live under a system that advocates this form of punshment (under Sharia)

time_cover_0809.jpg

 

Call me an islamophobe, but I'd kill someone (or die trying) before I let this happen to my offspring.

 

I won't be around so it won't bother me, but today NOW having a mosque built at ground zero does bother me big time, the Muslims are showing no respect and taking the pissori out of you they have one hundred mosques already that they can worship at in the Big Apple.

 

If Muslims ever did become the majority voters in the US, you would have to live with whatever laws they voted in you wont get much of a say in the matter sad to say, Saudi Arabia where the 911 bombers came from are not known for their politically correct friendliness & tolerance towards other religions like the UK & US are at the moment. Gotta say l am not anti Muslim or building another mosque somewhere else in New york, but building a mosque at ground zero is absolutely obscene and a outrageous thing to do President Obama is bang out of order Muslims already have 100 mosques in the big Apple to worship from you already show them greatest of tolerance, being tolerant has nothing to do with it you already do big time this is just Muslims taking the pissori.

Edited by Ford Jellymoulds

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I won't be around so it won't bother me, but today NOW having a mosque built at ground zero does bother me big time, the Muslims are showing no respect and taking the pissori out of you they have one hundred mosques already that they can worship at in the Big Apple.

 

If Muslims ever did become the majority voters in the US, you would have to live with whatever laws they voted in you wont get much of a say in the matter sad to say, Saudi Arabia where the 911 bombers came from are not known for their politically correct friendliness & tolerance towards other religions like the UK & US are at the moment. Gotta say l am not anti Muslim or building another mosque somewhere else in New york, but building a mosque at ground zero is absolutely obscene and a outrageous thing to do President Obama is bang out of order Muslims already have 100 mosques in the big Apple to worship from you already show them greatest of tolerance, being tolerant has nothing to do with it you already do big time this is just Muslims taking the pissori.

 

 

That is why we have the Supreme Court.

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The debate has focused on treating an entire religion as though it was following the tiny minority of its worst adherents. I doubt many Christians would be happy to be judged by the standards of those who argue that terrorism such as that seen in the Northern Ireland conflict or indiscriminate bombings of buildings housing abortion clinics is justified under religious grounds. Every religion has its nut jobs who go too far. They not only believe that they have the only right answer, but that other views are evil and must be wiped out for their way to triumph. Muslims, Jews and Christians all come from the same Abrahamic roots. Each has its fundementalist wing that preaches intollerance of other sects.

 

The Muslim Center is not at Ground Zero. It can't even be seen from there. This "Hallowed Ground" is an abandoned Burlington Coat Factory store. It neighbors strip clubs. The Constitution is not in place to protect popular views. They need no protection. The Constitution was created to protect the right to hold the least popular views. The Founders understood that allowing a tyranny of the majority endangers all points of view.

 

Many, on both sides of the political fence have shamelessly caved in to popular anger at those who caused the 9/11 attacks by tarring all Muslims with the same brush. It is anathema to our stated beliefs in equality to allow this to happen. Mayor Bloomberg is absolutely correct in stating that lowering our standards to those of the fundementalists who attacked us makes us just like them.

 

It is facinating to see Republicans like Newt and Sarah Palin arguing for a political correctness that puts feelings above strict construction of the Constitution. Gingrich seems very willing to hold the United States of America to the same standard of behavior on freedom as Saudi Arabia. Are we no better than a Kingdom that spawned al queda and from which 19 of the 9/11 hijacker terrorists hailed?

 

Many years ago, American Nazis wanted to march through Skokie, Illinois, a town that had a large number of Holocaust survivors. Jewish lawyers with the ACLU fought to uphold their rights under the 1st Amendment, not because they agreed with the Nazis, but because the principle of equal protection under the Constitution demanded the rights to vile speech be protected.

 

As Jon Stewart showed last night, the very same arguments made against the NRA having its convention minutes away from the site of the Columbine Massacre just a short time after the killings, were dismissed by conservatives. Sure they had the right to hold the convention, but was it right to do so? Stewart played a clip of Charleton Heston proclaiming that the right under the Constitution trumps hurt feelings and political correctness. The NRA held its convention.

 

The Imam of the center was an ally against fundementalism during the Bush Administration. Rauf worked with the State Dept and the FBI and is known as one of the leading moderates in the muslim world. He has committed no crimes and yet he is being vilified as though he was one of the terrorists. None of the statements he has made on the causes of anti-American sentiment among some muslims for our support of dictatorships in the middle east, are any different than statements made by American commentators like Glenn Beck.

 

There is already a number of actual mosques in lower Manhattan and even one in the Pentagon just 80 feet from where the plane hit the building. Muslims were among the 9/11 victims. Is their sacrifice to be ignored as well?

 

The Center should be built right where it is proposed as a thumb in the eye to the terrorists. They have not brought us down to their level of intollerance. We are better than they are because we hold to our sacred beliefs. It will show beyond any doubt that the United States of America stands for freedon and equality for all and that we mean and practice what we preach to the rest of the world.

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