SiCKO

[napfirst]

So how is the health care "system" working?

 

"Medical Debt Cited More Often in Bankruptcies"

 

http://bucks.blogs.n...=your-moneyema4

 

 

 

"Medical debt is increasingly a factor in personal bankruptcy filings, an analysis of data at a large credit-counseling agency finds.

 

Roughly 20 percent of those seeking financial counseling this year and last cited medical debt as the primary cause of their decision to seek bankruptcy protection"

 

 

 

Looks like a big drag on the possible prosperity of America.

 

So tell us Einstein, where will the trillion dollars come from to pay for it and how much will that drag American prosperity.....please answer....

[Aces]

So tell us Einstein, where will the trillion dollars come from to pay for it and how much will that drag American prosperity.....please answer....

 

 

I guess you would like it to come from sick people...it would serve them right for getting sick after all.

 

Only in America do people go bankrupt because they or someone in their family got sick.

 

In every other developed nation health care is a right ....paid for through various health care levies.

 

Essentially..... everyone pays.

 

 

Only in this Great Christian nation do we cast people aside like garbage.

 

Even so we spend way more to do it than any other country.

[cal50]

So tell us Einstein, where will the trillion dollars come from to pay for it and how much will that drag American prosperity.....please answer....

 

 

Ask Canada how they do it. They tax (the working) and provide sometimes crappy health care (from others accounts) that you have to wait for to receive with no alternative.

One possible alternative if your close to a US border is to cross over for your procedure.

 

Thankfully the US has cutting edge doctors and innovation without the government running it.

If the government cant run Amtrak, or the post office I doubt their debut into the medical field would be more successful.

Edited August 22, 2011 by cal50

[Aces]

Ask Canada how they do it. They tax (the working) and provide sometimes crappy health care (from others accounts) that you have to wait for to receive with no alternative.

One possible alternative if your close to a US border is to cross over for your procedure.

 

Thankfully the US has cutting edge doctors and innovation without the government running it.

If the government cant run Amtrak, or the post office I doubt their debut into the medical field would be more successful.

 

 

Perhaps some facts?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_system#Cross-country_comparisons

 

Please note that every one of your assumptions is wrong.

 

More info here

 

http://www.kff.org/insurance/snapshot/OECD042111.cfm

Edited August 22, 2011 by Aces

[napfirst]

I guess you would like it to come from sick people...it would serve them right for getting sick after all.

 

Only in America do people go bankrupt because they or someone in their family got sick.

 

In every other developed nation health care is a right ....paid for through various health care levies.

 

Essentially..... everyone pays.

 

 

Only in this Great Christian nation do we cast people aside like garbage.

 

Even so we spend way more to do it than any other country.

Hey newsflash Sparky....if you aren't happy living here in this "great Christian Nation" (your words)....then carry your yellow-ass back to Canada where you were so happy to live and pay taxes for most of your life...don't come back to the US and pretend to tell us how things should be run.......we have medicade and Medicare........if you want to pay more taxes for your neighbor's healthcare....go ahead right them a check every month but don't "levy" anymore of my money for healthcare of someone who has made poor choices ..........you liberals are great at spending other peoples' money

[Aces]

Hey newsflash Sparky....if you aren't happy living here in this "great Christian Nation" (your words)....then carry your yellow-ass back to Canada where you were so happy to live and pay taxes for most of your life...don't come back to the US and pretend to tell us how things should be run.......we have medicade and Medicare........if you want to pay more taxes for your neighbor's healthcare....go ahead right them a check every month but don't "levy" anymore of my money for healthcare of someone who has made poor choices ..........you liberals are great at spending other peoples' money

 

 

I see...it's OK if they die...... or go broke.......they deserve it?...they made poor choices?

[napfirst]

I see...it's OK if they die...... or go broke.......they deserve it?...they made poor choices?

 

 

One more time....M-E-D-I-C-A-D AND M-E-D-I-C-A-R-E........it's really not that hard to understand......how many people without healthcare have you donated money to?

[Aces]

More facts on universal single payer health care.

 

Lots of good facts here.

 

http://cthealth.server101.com/the_case_for_universal_health_care_in_the_united_states.htm

 

 

"Myth One: The United States has the best health care system in the world.

Fact One: The United States ranks 23rd in infant mortality, down from 12th in 1960 and 21st in 1990

 

Fact Two: The United States ranks 20th in life expectancy for women down from 1st in 1945 and 13th in 1960

 

Fact Three: The United States ranks 21st in life expectancy for men down from 1st in 1945 and 17th in 1960.

 

Fact Four: The United States ranks between 50th and 100th in immunizations depending on the immunization. Overall US is 67th, right behind Botswana

 

Fact Five: Outcome studies on a variety of diseases, such as coronary artery disease, and renal failure show the United States to rank below Canada and a wide variety of industrialized nations.

 

Conclusion: The United States ranks poorly relative to other industrialized nations in health care despite having the best trained health care providers and the best medical infrastructure of any industrialized nation

 

Myth Two: Universal Health Care Would Be Too Expensive

Fact One: The United States spends at least 40% more per capita on health care than any other industrialized country with universal health care

 

Fact Two: Federal studies by the Congressional Budget Office and the General Accounting office show that single payer universal health care would save 100 to 200 Billion dollars per year despite covering all the uninsured and increasing health care benefits.

 

Fact Three: State studies by Massachusetts and Connecticut have shown that single payer universal health care would save 1 to 2 Billion dollars per year from the total medical expenses in those states despite covering all the uninsured and increasing health care benefits

 

Fact Four: The costs of health care in Canada as a % of GNP, which were identical to the United States when Canada changed to a single payer, universal health care system in 1971, have increased at a rate much lower than the United States, despite the US economy being much stronger than Canada’s.

 

Conclusion: Single payer universal health care costs would be lower than the current US system due to lower administrative costs. The United States spends 50 to 100% more on administration than single payer systems. By lowering these administrative costs the United States would have the ability to provide universal health care, without managed care, increase benefits and still save money"

 

 

Here is more info...from Doctors

 

http://www.pnhp.org/facts/singlepayer_myths_singlepayer_facts.php

 

"Most businesses would save money. Because a single-payer system is more efficient than our current system, health care costs are less, and therefore, businesses save money. In Canada, the three major auto manufacturers (Ford, GM, and Daimler-Chrysler) have all publicly endorsed Canada’s single-payer health system from a business and financial standpoint. In the United States, Ford pays more for its workers health insurance than it does for the steel to make its cars."

 

 

 

 

Why don't we deal with FACTS?

[Aces]

One more time....M-E-D-I-C-A-D AND M-E-D-I-C-A-R-E........it's really not that hard to understand......how many people without healthcare have you donated money to?

 

 

If you want to spell things out to me ...perhaps you could spell them correctly?

 

You are the one that said they made poor choices.

 

 

 

 

The people declaring bankruptcy in a lot of cases have so called insurance ...you know the kind with life time caps or ridiculous co-pays or the ones whose insurance companies just deny payment for no apparent reason etc etc.

 

http://whohijackedourcountry.blogspot.com/2009/07/get-sick-have-health-insurance-go.html

 

"Get Sick, Have Health Insurance, Go Bankrupt

 

In 2007, 62% of all personal bankruptcies were the result of an illness. And 78% of those people already had health insurance when they first became ill. Most of these ill and bankrupt people had been covered by a private insurance carrier, not Medicare or Medicaid."

 

Or from a communist source

 

MSM Money and Business Week

 

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Insurance/InsureYourHealth/whats-most-likely-to-bankrupt-you.aspx

 

"Medical problems caused 62% of all personal bankruptcies filed in the U.S. in 2007, according to a study by Harvard researchers. And in a finding that surprised even the researchers, 78% of those filers had medical insurance at the start of their illnesses, including 60.3% who had private coverage, not Medicare or Medicaid."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How much does this put a drag America's prosperity?

Edited August 22, 2011 by Aces

[partsisparts]

One more time....M-E-D-I-C-A-D AND M-E-D-I-C-A-R-E........it's really not that hard to understand......how many people without healthcare have you donated money to?

You do realize the republican party is doing everything they can to dismantle Medicaid and Medicare.

[FiredMotorCompany]

You do realize the republican party is doing everything they can to dismantle Medicaid and Medicare.

 

Don't take much at the rate it's burning through cash.

[napfirst]

You do realize the republican party is doing everything they can to dismantle Medicaid and Medicare.

 

Unless you've been in a cave since last Nov. you must realize that the Republican hold a majority in the house only......you are just parroting the same BS obama used during the debt ceiling debate.....and I noticed that you failed to mentioned that obamacare takes $132 billion from medicare......small oversight I'm sure......

[partsisparts]

Unless you've been in a cave since last Nov. you must realize that the Republican hold a majority in the house only......you are just parroting the same BS obama used during the debt ceiling debate.....and I noticed that you failed to mentioned that obamacare takes $132 billion from medicare......small oversight I'm sure......

I don't care if there is one republican in the house. They are doing everything they can to dismantle medicare and medicaid. So please tell me why do you republicans think it is OK to protect the wealthy in this country on the backs of the elderly and infirm?

 

Here is your answer on medicare cuts: http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2010/09/25/does-obamacare-really-cut-medicare-benefits-to-senior-citizens/

I posted this before but you probably didn't read it...

Edited August 23, 2011 by partsisparts

[Empire]

9 political posts in the first 2 pages and people complain about a sports thread............... Come on people!!!!

[FiredMotorCompany]

9 political posts in the first 2 pages and people complain about a sports thread............... Come on people!!!!

 

In the scheme of things, politics ARE more important than sports. As boring as many people find it, politics trumps entertainment (sports).

[Marginal Economist]

In the scheme of things, politics ARE more important than sports. As boring as many people find it, politics trumps entertainment (sports).

 

We should probably be comparing politicians to actors. They are much better speakers and can quickly and seemlessly change between roles. They get paid to talk by the highest bidder and there are no consequences for them if their last project bombed. They make money of the residuals for the rest of their life. More people would recognize Matt Damon than their state congessmen.

 

Some people probably think Matt Damon is their representative.

[FiredMotorCompany]

We should probably be comparing politicians to actors. They are much better speakers and can quickly and seemlessly change between roles. They get paid to talk by the highest bidder and there are no consequences for them if their last project bombed. They make money of the residuals for the rest of their life. More people would recognize Matt Damon than their state congessmen.

 

Some people probably think Matt Damon is their representative.

 

And they get their news from "Entertainment Tonight" and "Monday Night Football".

[FiredMotorCompany]

The United Kingdom has been cited as an example of the single payer system by health care advocates.

 

"Death panels" claims were denied as inflammatory and false.

 

Really? How about rationing? Not much but a different name for a rose.

 

GPs ordered to ration cancer scans: Lives 'being put at risk' by bureaucrats' new cost-saving directive

[napfirst]

So whatever "plan" obama presents tonight we will need to subtract these:

 

 

 

<H1>

and these;

 

</H1>

AP reports on leaked OSMRE report on job losses expected from Obama stream protection rule

..................

The office, a branch of the Interior Department, estimated that the protections would trim coal production to the point that an estimated 7,000 of the nation's 80,600 coal mining jobs would be lost. Production would decrease or stay flat in 22 states, but climb 15 percent in North Dakota, Wyoming and Montana

.

 

 

but wait there's more............

 

 

September 8, 2011

New EPA rules to devastate coal industry

and this;.............

 

 

<H1>Latest ObamaCare job losses

 

 

........... Abbott isn't alone, either. Medtronic, a maker of medical devices, predicted it will cut 1,000 jobs to cover a new ObamaCare tax on medical devices. And soon after ObamaCare was signed into law, major companies such as AT&T, John Deere and Caterpillar noted the hundreds of millions of dollars in new costs the law would impose on them. Who can doubt that those costs will force the companies to lay off employees, or that at a minimum they will be unable to hire new workers?

 

</H1>

[longball]

I was looking around on the internet ....and found this info....can we afford this?

 

http://www.atr.org/comprehensive-list-obama-tax-hikes-a6433

[FiredMotorCompany]

Latest ObamaCare Glitch Enables States to Block New Entitlement Spending

 

Read it to find out what is in it?

 

Do you buy a house this way? Buy a car? Pick a spouse?

 

No! unless you are an idiot. Mrs. Pelosi, I did say that.

 

 

Quote:

---

Because of a quirk in ObamaCare, people who buy health insurance through a federally run exchange may not be eligible for premium subsidies. Government-created exchanges are places for individuals to shop and purchase health insurance. ObamaCare will require individuals and families to buy insurance, starting in 2014.

 

Those with incomes at 100% to 400% of the federal poverty level will be eligible for taxpayer funded subsidies — a tax credit to help pay for the premium.

 

It turns out that the legislation isn't so clear, the latest example of what analysts predicted would be a stream of surprises from the mammoth health law.

 

Section 1311 of ObamaCare instructs state governments to set up an exchange. If a state refuses, Section 1321 lets the federal government establish an exchange in the state.

 

Yet ObamaCare states that the tax credit is available to people who are enrolled in an "an exchange established by the state under (Section) 1311." It makes no mention of people enrolled in federal exchanges being eligible for the tax credit.

 

"There is this technical problem in the law," said James Blumstein, a professor at Vanderbilt Law School. "I don't see how you get around that."

 

I guess the folks who chanted, "Read the bill!" seem a little less crazy now.

 

Regrettably, the IRS has tried to "get around" the clear meaning of the law. In a proposed rule, the IRS writes that taxpayers will be eligible for ObamaCare's "tax credits" — which are more government spending than – if they are enrolled in a health plan "established under section 1311 or 1321" [emphasis added]. But that's not what the law says. As I told IBD:

 

"Congress did not delegate this discretion to the IRS," Cannon said. "Congress created a tax credit for A, and the IRS is saying it applies to A and B. If the IRS offers this tax credit to federally run exchanges, the IRS will be assuming powers the Constitution vests only in Congress to alter the tax code and spend money."

 

Citizens have until October 31 to share with the IRS their thoughts about the agency's overly broad interpretation of its powers (see here).

 

More broadly, this bug feature means that states can block ObamaCare's new entitlement spending, and possibly the entire law, just by refusing to create an Exchange:

 

"The whole structure of the law collapses without a state-run exchange," said Michael Cannon, director of health policy studies at the libertarian Cato Institute. "That forces Congress to either repeal ObamaCare or significantly alter it."

 

Yesterday, Rep. Michael Burgess (R-Texas) helpfully suggested that the so-called "Super Committee" should meet its target of $1.5 trillion in spending reductions by cutting ObamaCare's new entitlement spending:

 

The Select Committee is getting to work, and I encourage both parties, all 12 members, to put the Affordable Care Act on the table, alongside other entitlements in need of reform…The easiest money to save is money you haven't yet spent…This new select committee could easily achieve almost their entire target of reducing the nation's deficit, and…almost every dollar would come from benefits that do not yet exist.

 

The wonderful thing about this newly discovered feature of ObamaCare is that states don't have to wait for Congress to act. They can reduce federal spending simply by not creating a health insurance Exchange.

---

End Quote. Edited September 15, 2011 by FiredMotorCompany

[Don't Tread on Me]

What a great movie. Let's cut all politicians medical care until the can agree we all get medical care.

[FiredMotorCompany]

What a great movie. Let's cut all politicians medical care until the can agree we all get medical care.

 

Change that to "All politicians are equally subject to all legislation that the general citizenry must abide by." and I'm on board with you.

[FiredMotorCompany]

Hey, Mods. You missed this.

[FiredMotorCompany]

Hey, Mods. You missed this.