Furious1Auto Posted June 12, 2011 Author Share Posted June 12, 2011 All I know is that before "Obama Care" came into existence, that my cousin went 3 years without being able to get medical care coverage for her pre-existing Diabetes. There was a lapse on insurance on her part just after her divorce, and insurance companies were allowed to deny her coverage. The law will stand, so get use to it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cocheese Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 All I know is that before "Obama Care" came into existence, that my cousin went 3 years without being able to get medical care coverage for her pre-existing Diabetes. There was a lapse on insurance on her part just after her divorce, and insurance companies were allowed to deny her coverage. The law will stand, so get use to it! Your cousin made the mistake, not the system. Your blame is directed in the wrong direction. Obamacare will be killed as soon as that clown's Presidency is. Do a quick search on wait times for us Canadians with "free" health care. Then do another search, and ask yourself if "free" health care is so great, why do so many Canadians head south for medical procedures? Trust me son, the grass is not greener on the other side. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted June 12, 2011 Author Share Posted June 12, 2011 (edited) Your cousin made the mistake, not the system. Your blame is directed in the wrong direction. Obamacare will be killed as soon as that clown's Presidency is. Do a quick search on wait times for us Canadians with "free" health care. Then do another search, and ask yourself if "free" health care is so great, why do so many Canadians head south for medical procedures? Trust me son, the grass is not greener on the other side. Mistake? Getting sick? It was no mistake at all, and due to the new legislation she now has medical coverage. It was the insurance industry that made the mistake, and now they can pay for it! I'm voting for him again! Edited June 12, 2011 by Furious1Auto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cocheese Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 (edited) Mistake? Getting sick? There was a lapse on insurance on her part just after her divorce. Why did she allow her insurance to lapse, especially if she knew she was sick? People need to stop playing the blame game, and start taking responsibilities for their own actions and now they can pay for it! And where do you think the money will come from to "pay for it"? You are just driving up the cost. Do you not understand how the market works? I'm voting for him again! Why, do you think next time around you will actually get that "Hope & Change" you were sold on the first time? Do you want the deficit to get bigger and bigger? Are you happy that the number of people out of work is growing? Do you like the illegal aliens that are being given residency and putting more and more strain on the economy and services? Are you happy that the country is in worse shape now, then it was at any time during Bush's terms in Office? You do realize the definition of crazy is doing the same thing over and over again, while expecting a different result? Edited June 12, 2011 by Cocheese 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted June 12, 2011 Author Share Posted June 12, 2011 (edited) Why did she allow her insurance to lapse, especially if she knew she was sick? People need to stop playing the blame game, and start taking responsibilities for their own actions And where do you think the money will come from to "pay for it"? You are just driving up the cost. Do you not understand how the market works? Why, do you think next time around you will actually get that "Hope & Change" you were sold on the first time? Do you want the deficit to get bigger and bigger? Are you happy that the number of people out of work is growing? Do you like the illegal aliens that are being given residency and putting more and more strain on the economy and services? Are you happy that the country is in worse shape now, then it was at any time during Bush's terms in Office? You do realize the definition of crazy is doing the same thing over and over again, while expecting a different result? Uh, excuse me? I told you that she went through a divorce, he was the household's primary earner. How do you pay money you don't have? I know you are an ignorant fuck so let me see if you can answer why we should allow insurance companies the ability to sell a product that involves risk, without making them accept the risk? Why not kick out smokers, overweight people, people that have ever had a family member get sick, and even anyone who has ever had the sniffles. I suppose we should just allow them to collect peoples money and never provide any service. How about allowing them to sell home owner's insurance that doesn't protect you from theft, not fires, no wind damage, or physical damage due to negligence, or even the fault of another. How about auto coverage that doesn't cover the cost of repair to either party's vehicle, medical bills, or any damage that is a result of the vehicle being parked, or in motion. I could care less about there profits, if they are going to sell a product it should be to everyone equally. You don't see Ford restricting who they sell there products to based on the condition of the customer. " Maam, you smoke, your overweight, you have high blood pressure, maybe a Ford is not for you. Have you ever thought about driving a Chevy, or walking to where you need to go?" Ford accepts risks in selling their products also, but it is all part of the business! Allowing it to continue would be exactly the same as allowing an auto manufacturer to accept prepaid money for vehicles, and then never deliver them when they were expected, never delivering them at all. In any other industry the practice would be illegal. Too bad for them that it is now illegal in there industry also! Ridiculous, simply ridiculous. Edited June 12, 2011 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cocheese Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 Uh, excuse me? I told you that she went through a divorce, he was the household's primary earner. Then that's her fault, not the insurance company's. You are blaming the insurance company for your cousin not having medical coverage, even though she never paid for medical insurance. It's your cousin's fault for not having insurance, not anyone else's How do you pay money you don't have? If you don't have money, then you don't get what you want. Sorry kid, but that's how the world works. I know you are an ignorant fuck so let me see if you can answer why we should allow insurance companies the ability to sell a product that involves risk, without making them accept the risk? Why not kick out smokers, overweight people, people that have ever had a family member get sick, and even anyone who has ever had the sniffles. I suppose we should just allow them to collect peoples money and never provide any service. How about allowing them to sell home owner's insurance that doesn't protect you from theft, not fires, no wind damage, or physical damage due to negligence, or even the fault of another. How about auto coverage that doesn't cover the cost of repair to either party's vehicle, medical bills, or an damage that is a result of the vehicle being parked, or in motion. But you said your cousin didn't have insurance. Your entire argument is based upon a company not providing a service they were paid to provide. Your cousin did not have insurance, so therefore they did not have to provide a service. Again, this is your cousin's fault, nobody else's. Sure, I'd be pissed if the car insurance I PAID for didn't cover me when I was in an accident, but I'd have a hard time being pissed off that wasn't covered under insurance I didn't pay for. And BTW, there are insurance companies that will not sell policy's to drivers who have bad driving records. I could care less about there profits, it they are going to sell a product it should be to everyone equally. How do you feel about people being taxed equally? Or are you OK with over half the country paying ZERO tax, while the other half pays more than their fair share? Don't you think it should be equal? You don't see Ford restricting who they sell there products to based on the condition of the customer. " Maam, you smoke, your overweight, you have high blood pressure, maybe a Ford is not for you. Have you ever thought about driving a Chevy, or walking to where you need to go?" Ford accepts risks in selling their products also, but it is all part of the business! Actually, there are Auto Manufacturers who do restrict who can buy their cars. Ford could very well do the same thing if they wanted to. It's called supply and demand. If Ford said no to you, you could go to another company who would say yes. Now imagine if you had no choice in where you bought your car. And instead where forced to go to a Government run automaker who offers poor service and questionable products. Ridiculous, simply ridiculous. Yes, your stupidity is. How come you follow your buddy Aces' MO and don't answer the questions that are asked of you? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted June 12, 2011 Author Share Posted June 12, 2011 (edited) Then that's her fault, not the insurance company's. You are blaming the insurance company for your cousin not having medical coverage, even though she never paid for medical insurance. It's your cousin's fault for not having insurance, not anyone else's If you don't have money, then you don't get what you want. Sorry kid, but that's how the world works. But you said your cousin didn't have insurance. Your entire argument is based upon a company not providing a service they were paid to provide. Your cousin did not have insurance, so therefore they did not have to provide a service. Again, this is your cousin's fault, nobody else's. Sure, I'd be pissed if the car insurance I PAID for didn't cover me when I was in an accident, but I'd have a hard time being pissed off that wasn't covered under insurance I didn't pay for. And BTW, there are insurance companies that will not sell policy's to drivers who have bad driving records. How do you feel about people being taxed equally? Or are you OK with over half the country paying ZERO tax, while the other half pays more than their fair share? Don't you think it should be equal? Actually, there are Auto Manufacturers who do restrict who can buy their cars. Ford could very well do the same thing if they wanted to. It's called supply and demand. If Ford said no to you, you could go to another company who would say yes. Now imagine if you had no choice in where you bought your car. And instead where forced to go to a Government run automaker who offers poor service and questionable products. Yes, your stupidity is. Your right one of us is stupid, and he can be angry at the law all he likes cause it will stand. Also people like my cousin will not be denied coverage. GFYS! Cry me a river so we can lower our drafts and make more money! How come you follow your buddy Aces' MO and don't answer the questions that are asked of you? I don't think I am following anyone, I posted this thread! There is no need to muddy up the argument, it is a simple issue when you don't over analyze it. I understand both side of the argument, and I frequent Canada. Looking out my porthole I can see Canada on 1 side, and the US on the other while I sail right down Lake Michigan through the Straights of Mackinac. If I was a sick person I would start a political movement, and file suits for discrimination. If fags can do it for sexual orientation, then why can't it be done for medical status? Edited June 12, 2011 by Furious1Auto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal50 Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 I know you are an ignorant fuck so let me see if you can answer Your right one of us is stupid, . If fags can do it for sexual orientation, then why . GFYS! Cry me a river so we can lower our drafts and make more money! Let see, ignorant fuck,stupid,fags and a go fuck yourself. You really are furious.... I thought you started a new board somewhere else? I hope the language is a little nicer over there. It's funny how you get rattled by simple conversation. Name calling and the sort really does not make your point any better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Let see, ignorant fuck,stupid,fags and a go fuck yourself. You really are furious.... I thought you started a new board somewhere else? I hope the language is a little nicer over there. It's funny how you get rattled by simple conversation. Name calling and the sort really does not make your point any better. "Profanity is the attempt of a feeble mind to express itself forcibly."Adrian Rogers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cocheese Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Your right one of us is stupid, and he can be angry at the law all he likes cause it will stand. And what happens when it gets repealed? Will you come back here and admit you were wrong, or will you totally ignore it like you did following the 2010 Mid Term elections. I think the only one who has showed anger is yourself. I'm already forced to pay too much tax on a public health care system that doesn't work. It doesn't bother me if you will be forced to do the same. Just remember this one thing when you realize Obamacare is a failure; I told you so. Also people like my cousin will not be denied coverage. GFYS! Cry me a river so we can lower our drafts and make more money! Your cousin wouldn't have been denied coverage if she just paid her bill. I don't think I am following anyone, I posted this thread! You're following Michael Moore. An exposed liar and fraud. There is no need to muddy up the argument, it is a simple issue when you don't over analyze it. I understand both side of the argument, and I frequent Canada. Looking out my porthole I can see Canada on 1 side, and the US on the other while I sail right down Lake Michigan through the Straights of Mackinac. So then why are you over analyzing it? Furthermore, you "muddy the waters" by blaming the insurance company for your cousin's laziness and stupidity. If I was a sick person I would start a political movement, and file suits for discrimination. If fags can do it for sexual orientation, then why can't it be done for medical status? Why wait until you are sick? If you are such a true believer who doesn't follow anybody, start the movement yourself. Why do you guys always think more Government is the answer, when ultimately the biggest problems in the world are created because of Government involvement? What did you think the last time you visited a DMV? Now imagine having to deal with that while having a medical emergency. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted June 13, 2011 Author Share Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) No point in kicking and screaming all. I support the president, and his policy, and it is now law. :shades: Want to be a real Patriot, then the Then seek the repeal Bush's Patriot act. Edited June 13, 2011 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cocheese Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 No point in kicking and screaming all. I support the president, and his policy, and it is now law. :shades: So you're no different that the rest of your ilk who slither away once you've been called out, and can no longer use the talking points your leaders have told you to use. No surprise there Want to be a real Patriot, then the Then seek the repeal Bush's Patriot act. Your hero just extended it. Why do I get the impression you had no idea about this? After all, it wouldn't look good if the MSM spent all this time bashing Bush, while praising Obama, then had to report that Obama has continued yet another one of Bush's policies. Son, my guess is if you used half your brain, you wouldn't be supporting Obama 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal50 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Son, my guess is if you used half your brain, you wouldn't be supporting Obama Wrong. Obama gave his relative "free" health care. It's that entitlement mentality that you can buy the persons vote. Forget the fact that nothing is free and someone else will be paying for the "free" coverage down the road. (All of us *currently working people that is) Some people vote on color, gender or who is giving them something for free. That shows a persons true character or smarts. I love the sales pitch that was tossed out those insurance rates will go down once everyone is covered. How the hell you lump millions of non-paying people on the system and my rates will go down? Yea, right. That's similar to having 20 million people get free postage to mail something and somehow by giving them "free" postage my stamp price will go down? Obama care mandates everyone buys insurance. If you did not have money to buy coverage in the first place passing a law does not change the person's ability to buy insurance when they do not have the funds. The law change did zero to address the real issue of cost control. Unless your one of the many lucky groups to get a waiver to the great new Obamacare it's going to cost everyone else. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) Good article here on single payer health care and why small business owners like it. http://www.iwatchnews.org/2011/05/31/4766/analysis-frustrated-small-business-owners-among-single-payers-biggest-fans "Of the many supporters of a single-payer health care system in the United States, some of the most ardent are small business owners who have struggled to continue offering coverage to their workers." Some background on Single payer http://www.pnhp.org/facts/what-is-single-payer Edited June 13, 2011 by Aces 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiredMotorCompany Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Good article here on single payer health care and why small business owners like it. http://www.iwatchnew...rs-biggest-fans "Of the many supporters of a single-payer health care system in the United States, some of the most ardent are small business owners who have struggled to continue offering coverage to their workers." Some background on Single payer http://www.pnhp.org/...is-single-payer One simple, civil, question. If single payer is so good for all, especially small business, why are ANY waivers being issued? Political payback? (Sorry, that's two.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 One simple, civil, question. If single payer is so good for all, especially small business, why are ANY waivers being issued? Political payback? (Sorry, that's two.) Ah.. I don't get your question? The waivers for Obama care (as the right calls it) have nothing to do with single payer which is a different thing altogether. If you read the background piece I posted above you would see that it has nothing to do with "Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiredMotorCompany Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Ah.. I don't get your question? The waivers for Obama care (as the right calls it) have nothing to do with single payer which is a different thing altogether. (Well I guess this guy is a lying sack full of stuff.... Link - State single payer waiver provisions in the Senate healthcare bill - legislative language and fact sheet from Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders The health care reform bill passed by the Senate requires that all states set up Exchanges through which private insurance companies could sell their plans. Because federal laws preempt state laws, the federal health care reform bill would supplant any state attempt to set up a single payer system in lieu of an Exchange, which by its nature calls for multiple payers to compete. If the Senate bill is enacted, the only opportunity for states to move toward a single payer system is found in Section 1332. This section would allow a state with a plan that meets certain coverage and affordability requirements to waive out of the requirement to set up an Exchange for private insurance companies. Only with such a waiver could a state move in the direction of a single payer system. This is the camel's nose under the tent for Obama's stated goal of single payer. Despite the fact his administration is passing out waivers like candy to the grandchildren (his allies). If you read the background piece I posted above you would see that it has nothing to do with "Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) uh ...... Fired, your lack of understanding should not surprise me but really if you know nothing about a subject.......don't comment. The act of listening to talk radio really does not qualify you to comment on anything without sounding stupid. Try reading a bit.....before commenting. Edited June 13, 2011 by Aces 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiredMotorCompany Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 uh ...... Fired, your lack of understanding should not surprise me but really if you know nothing about a subject.......don't comment. The act of listening to talk radio really does not qualify you to comment on anything without sounding stupid. Try reading a bit.....before commenting. The Obama Administration's grand accomplishment is the current Health Care Reform, correct? Waivers are or have been granted to hundreds of companies, many of which are likely to support the Obama re-election campaign, right? Obama has been quoted, in context, that it was his intention to bring about a single payer system, right? The article I posted, from your same source site, explains the process for instituting a single payer is reliant on a passage in the Health Care Reform bill, right? I admit I may not have it exactly right. Would you present a better step by step narrative? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 The Obama Administration's grand accomplishment is the current Health Care Reform, correct? Waivers are or have been granted to hundreds of companies, many of which are likely to support the Obama re-election campaign, right? Obama has been quoted, in context, that it was his intention to bring about a single payer system, right? The article I posted, from your same source site, explains the process for instituting a single payer is reliant on a passage in the Health Care Reform bill, right? I admit I may not have it exactly right. Would you present a better step by step narrative? Don't waste your time with the dodger, someone tells him what to post, not how to explain it......your comments on waviers went right over his head... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) The Obama Administration's grand accomplishment is the current Health Care Reform, correct? Not in MY opinion..... It benefits insurance companies more than people...it is better than nothing but the compromises with the Republicans meant that it did not solve America's health care problem. I think insurance companies and others who make a profit from peoples suffering should be told "the game is over" Waivers are or have been granted to hundreds of companies, many of which are likely to support the Obama re-election campaign, right? These are to delay implementation of certain aspects of an overly complex bill Obama has been quoted, in context, that it was his intention to bring about a single payer system, right? No...He said it was the ideal solution but politically impossible and he did not let single payer be discussed as an alternative. The article I posted, from your same source site, explains the process for instituting a single payer is reliant on a passage in the Health Care Reform bill, right? No...it says that the Health Care Reform bill prevents single payer in any state "If the Senate bill is passed, the only opportunity that states would have to move towards a single payer system would be to get a waiver from the Exchange requirements through Section 1332.[1] Section 1332 enables a state to apply for and receive a waiver (beginning in 2017) from the requirement to operate an Exchange. In order to get such a waiver, the state would have to present an alternative plan that would provide coverage at least as comprehensive and affordable, to at least a comparable number of residents, as the federal legislation would achieve. The state plan could not increase the federal deficit." So it looks to me that the waivers are not the same as the ones you refer to. I admit I may not have it exactly right. Would you present a better step by step narrative? Hope that helps The "Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010" is not in any sense single payer. It does not save the money that single payer does or provide the 'health care for all' that single payer does The plan that was passed only requires people to have insurance....and still get ripped off (although not as badly). It should lead to less people in Emergency at governmental expense because they have no insurance. It is a feeble attempt to solve a real problem. This article (by Doctors) covers single payer health care better than I can. http://www.pnhp.org/facts/what-is-single-payer I stole your formatting! Edited June 13, 2011 by Aces 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Don't waste your time with the dodger, someone tells him what to post, not how to explain it......your comments on waviers went right over his head... As usual from this poster more litter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiredMotorCompany Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 (edited) The "Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010" is not in any sense single payer. It does not save the money that single payer does or provide the 'health care for all' that single payer does The plan that was passed only requires people to have insurance....and still get ripped off (although not as badly). It should lead to less people in Emergency at governmental expense because they have no insurance. It is a feeble attempt to solve a real problem. This article (by Doctors) covers single payer health care better than I can. http://www.pnhp.org/...is-single-payer I stole your formatting! You are welcome to use it. I have always attempted to respectfully represent the comments I respond to. And I thank you for the reply. As much as I may disagree with most of your positions, I hope we can continue to have similar dialogues in the future. Whew, what a ride here these past few days! Edited June 14, 2011 by FiredMotorCompany Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 You all will vote the way Fox says the Tea party will, they will get everything they want on every other issue, and the medical bill will stand. Tools! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted June 17, 2011 Author Share Posted June 17, 2011 (edited) -4? You mean, four people disliked my comment? You mean, there are 4 tools in the shed? :goodnight: Edited June 17, 2011 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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