Deanh Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 oh, and back to the title of the thread....The American Medical Association (AMA), founded in 1847 and incorporated 1897, [1] is the largest association of physicians and medical students in the United States. So is anyone surprized they oppose the Govt plan?????? friggen self interest groups i swear.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 you won't...see it itemized on your check?....so, right now everyon pays ( well some ) X amount of dollars for insurance per year...what does that amount tally too? waitin for treatment has been a big complaint about Socialist medicine...well guess what...you wait here too, only difference is you also pay and unless you screw with the system and have ZERO money you may not get treatment at all!!!!! Still don't think the system is flawed?....what about people ( like Dianne ) with distressed income, what if she couldn't afford the deductible....she wouldn't abuse the system, she would have no choice but to go back to ireland..or just flat out DIE....so, don't tell me its fine here, its not...its money run, I say BRING ON GOVT OVERSIGHT....in the long run it may be less costly and beneficial to those less fortunate than yourself Nap....and by you not having to pay my medical wouldn't it actually SAVE you money?????? Unless you can PROVE it will actually COST you money then you have ZERO argument...and you can't....SHOW me and i'll shut up..and SPECULATION means ZIP! Right now I beleive our Insurance premiums are inflated to cover the inherrant costs of subsidizing un-insured medical issues...take that away and it should SAVE $ is it itemized on my pay check, yes it is and it's on yours also.....look at what is deducted from your pay....it's usually the very first line..."Federal Witholding"......that's how the US govt. gets the money to pay for such items.....so if the program is going to cost an additional $1 trillion and we are now running deficits then the only way to get more money is to raise taxes....over 70% of the people in the US currently pay NO income tax....so the burden will fall on the other 30%....now please tell me that you think that is fair..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 OK just another shot in the dark (cue Peter Sellers) I think what NAP is saying is the hospitals have to absorb the cost of unpaid care so they raise the price of everyday needs such as bandaids, medecines, treatments etc. In this way "all" of us pay for it in one way or another. I am for oversite and although I don't think of myself as a socialist (voted for and wrote in Ron Paul) I think it's time that in a country like this we all receive medical coverage, and it should be equal care for the poor the, rich and especialy for the politicians that seem to receive special treatment. Let them sit in the waiting room for an hour like the rest of us. why should it be equal?...we are not taxed equally......healthcare in this country is not a right guaranteed by the constitution.....I certainly am not uncaring when it comes to people needing assistance, but it is out of hand...there are too many people who choose not to buy healthcare when they could easily afford it...they have an entitlement mentality.......someone else needs to pay for the poor economic decisions that they've made in the lives..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 OK just another shot in the dark (cue Peter Sellers) I think what NAP is saying is the hospitals have to absorb the cost of unpaid care so they raise the price of everyday needs such as bandaids, medecines, treatments etc. In this way "all" of us pay for it in one way or another. I am for oversite and although I don't think of myself as a socialist (voted for and wrote in Ron Paul) I think it's time that in a country like this we all receive medical coverage, and it should be equal care for the poor the, rich and especialy for the politicians that seem to receive special treatment. Let them sit in the waiting room for an hour like the rest of us. P.S.;...I used to feel that the rich got the best treatment, then a close friend was diagnosed with a brain tumor....his Dr. referred him the Duke University....the same DR. that operated on him was later the one that operated on T. Kennedy....and my friend worked for the govt. and just had BC/BS.....so many time this misconception is just that and it's floated out there by the socialized med. proponents to try and sell nation healthcare....a scare tatic if you will.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 (edited) is it itemized on my pay check, yes it is and it's on yours also.....look at what is deducted from your pay....it's usually the very first line..."Federal Witholding"......that's how the US govt. gets the money to pay for such items.....so if the program is going to cost an additional $1 trillion and we are now running deficits then the only way to get more money is to raise taxes....over 70% of the people in the US currently pay NO income tax....so the burden will fall on the other 30%....now please tell me that you think that is fair..... bollocks...Federal with-holding CONTRIBUTES...it is not SOLELY responsible...so say that the taxes stay the same yet you have ZERO medical...you STILL have a problem with that?.....hey, how the hell do they get away with no taxes...do we need tax reform as well?...( but give me the secret ).......and if what you say is accurate ( albeit inflated i would guess ) then NO I don't think its fair...so it NEEDS evaluation and reform....I don't think its fair NOW.... Edited June 18, 2009 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthewq4b Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 (edited) Not sure why anyone is really concerned what it is going to cost anyway, not the U.S government is actually going to consider trying to balance the books any time soon anyway. If they were concered with it then taxes would have gone up a long time ago. Matthew Edited June 18, 2009 by matthewq4b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 P.S.;...I used to feel that the rich got the best treatment, then a close friend was diagnosed with a brain tumor....his Dr. referred him the Duke University....the same DR. that operated on him was later the one that operated on T. Kennedy....and my friend worked for the govt. and just had BC/BS.....so many time this misconception is just that and it's floated out there by the socialized med. proponents to try and sell nation healthcare....a scare tatic if you will.... I'll call that one out too....the more "desired" they are the longer the wait time....hopefully all worked out for your friend.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 (edited) why should it be equal?...we are not taxed equally......healthcare in this country is not a right guaranteed by the constitution.....I certainly am not uncaring when it comes to people needing assistance, but it is out of hand...there are too many people who choose not to buy healthcare when they could easily afford it...they have an entitlement mentality.......someone else needs to pay for the poor economic decisions that they've made in the lives..... +1 there Naps....entitlement...so true....the playing field just needs leveling... Edited June 18, 2009 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Not sure why anyone is really concerned what it is going to cost anyway, not the U.S government is actually going to consider trying to balance the books any time soon anyway. If they were concered with it then taxes would have gone up a long time ago. Matthew not concerned about what it cost......you're kidding right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share Posted June 18, 2009 Not sure why anyone is really concerned what it is going to cost anyway, not the U.S government is actually going to consider trying to balance the books any time soon anyway. If they were concered with it then taxes would have gone up a long time ago. Matthew They could have also considered lowering spending, as well. We are already paying more in the form of the devaluing of the dollar, and the rise in interest rates. The effect is the same as a tax, except the government isn't getting out of debt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 bollocks...Federal with-holding CONTRIBUTES...it is not SOLELY responsible...so say that staye the same yet you have ZERO medical...you STILL have a problem with that?.....hey, how the hell do they get away with no taxes...do we need tax reform as well?...( but give me the secret ).......and if what you say is accurate ( albeit inflated i would guess ) then NO I don't think its fair...so it NEEDS evaluation and reform....I don't think its fair NOW.... Here's tax info from a few years ago... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Here's tax info from a few years ago... not sure I agree with that either,,,,some of the WEATHIEST pay the least due to their mountains of "loopholes" and writeoffs......and i'm sure the so called Middle class America would argue the point as well....I really didn't think this "reform" is anything to be afraid of Nap I really don't, but articles and media ( probably at the wishes of the AMA ) are riding the fear train...just people despise "change".... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthewq4b Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Here's tax info from a few years ago... That information is twisted. what house hold income puts you in the top 5% ? Research that and you will be suprised how low it actually is. Matthew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthewq4b Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 not concerned about what it cost......you're kidding right? Well apparently the U.S is not conerned to much withthe cost of anything are they now ? When was the last time the U.S has a balanced budget or even attempted to balance the budget ? Matthew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 not sure I agree with that either,,,,some of the WEATHIEST pay the least due to their mountains of "loopholes" and writeoffs......and i'm sure the so called Middle class America would argue the point as well....I really didn't think this "reform" is anything to be afraid of Nap I really don't, but articles and media ( probably at the wishes of the AMA ) are riding the fear train...just people despise "change".... So you read it, but you don't believe it...goggle it for yourself..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Well apparently the U.S is not conerned to much withthe cost of anything are they now ? When was the last time the U.S has a balanced budget or even attempted to balance the budget ? Matthew so that's a good reason to continue to run up record debt?......do you run your home on a budget?...if you go over and dip into your saving or worse yet borrow to make ends meet....that's not a problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthewq4b Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 (edited) so that's a good reason to continue to run up record debt?......do you run your home on a budget?...if you go over and dip into your saving or worse yet borrow to make ends meet....that's not a problem? Nope I do not have run my home in deficit at ever increasing amounts since the Clinton administration. I wish i could run my house hold the same way the U.S runs the country spend money and never have to worry about paying back. The U.S deficit is pretty much beyond salvaging. To Balance the U.S 2009 budget every man woman and child in the U.S.A would have to pay an addtional $5000 in federal taxes. or see $5000 worth for every man woman and child of federal services cut. That is to just balance the budget let alone any debt repayment. It is a forgone conclusion that the U.S will most not likly ever have a balanced budget again let alone have any hope of ever repaying the Debt. Hint there is a differance between Deficit and Debt. It is only matter time befor the U.S Govt's finacial house of cards falls down.As stands now there is no way possible the U.S can ever pay it's debt. So really why worry about the cost not like your ever going to be paying for it and other nations will just end up writing the debt off eventually any way. Matthew Edited June 18, 2009 by matthewq4b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 So you read it, but you don't believe it...goggle it for yourself..... media at work again nap....some will say that Middle class America actually supports the Nation...they may not pay as much taxes per person....but THERES A HELL OF ALOT MORE OF EM...so whom contributes the most????? case closed there my friend. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 so that's a good reason to continue to run up record debt?......do you run your home on a budget?...if you go over and dip into your saving or worse yet borrow to make ends meet....that's not a problem? I'll be the first to admit i'm surviving on borrowed money...hell I'm getting ready to rent my house so as to have a single mortgage between the two of us...economy has had a well published effect on the auto industry.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthewq4b Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 (edited) Ok since NAP side stepped the issue. A house hold income of $154,000 puts you in the top 5% of income earners in the U.S. So basically a tradesperson and a nurse couple and bam your in the top 5%. That top 5% income stat has been one of the most mis used and abused to try to prove that the wealthy pay all the taxes. When In fact that 5% applies to most of all the upper middle class. Matthew Edited June 18, 2009 by matthewq4b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share Posted June 18, 2009 I'll be the first to admit i'm surviving on borrowed money...hell I'm getting ready to rent my house so as to have a single mortgage between the two of us...economy has had a well published effect on the auto industry.......... Borrowing money, in and of itself, isn't necessarily a bad thing. I borrowed money to get my college education. I borrowed money to buy nearly every car I've ever owned. All were paid back. Renting your house is a smart way to borrow time. America's problem is we're borrowing money and putting it into things that aren't likely to have a payout. Sure, some of those programs end up with tangible assets, but who really wants turtle tunnels in Florida, and how does it benefit America's bottom line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 media at work again nap....some will say that Middle class America actually supports the Nation...they may not pay as much taxes per person....but THERES A HELL OF ALOT MORE OF EM...so whom contributes the most????? case closed there my friend. . send me the link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Ok since NAP side stepped the issue. A house hold income of $154,000 puts you in the top 5% of income earners in the U.S. So basically a tradesperson and a nurse couple and bam your in the top 5%. That top 5% income stat has been one of the most mis used and abused to try to prove that the wealthy pay all the taxes. When In fact that 5% applies to most of all the upper middle class. Matthew where's the side-step? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmccap Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 and heres a quick question...IS that Trillion or so actually VISIBLY going to come out of each individuals paycheck, or will a percentage of what we already pay NOW just be re-allocated?????? I don't see Health Reform Tax, or GM bailout tax, or Chrysler or AIG tax itemized in my paycheck.....so IS it actually costing the public OR is the taxpayers money being utilized in different more prioritized areas?.... It's being put on the US's Credit card(national deficit). If they taxed us for the things like you say and actually started taking them out right after they pass them do you really think we would have such a huge deficit? People would say HELL NO!!!!! That's how they get you because we don't see it. If everyone was to see it directly hit there pocketbook this would be a very different country. In reality it does actually cost us through the inflation tax, they keep devaluing the dollar and weakening our purchasing power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthewq4b Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 It's being put on the US's Credit card(national deficit). If they taxed us for the things like you say and actually started taking them out right after they pass them do you really think we would have such a huge deficit? People would say HELL NO!!!!! That's how they get you because we don't see it. If everyone was to see it directly hit there pocketbook this would be a very different country. In reality it does actually cost us through the inflation tax, they keep devaluing the dollar and weakening our purchasing power. Has the U.S Dollar really devalued though or have other countries economic growth out stripped the U.S's? That is the question you have to ask. By all rights if the U.S dollar was strickly valued on the debt ratio of the nation it would be like the old Italian Lira Matthew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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