A.M.A. Opposes Government-Sponsored Healthcare Plan

[napfirst]

The news is negative because negative sells. OHIP isn't perfect, and I have never said that it is. It's one of the best systems in this country, but it isn't perfect. It has to work within a budget and it has to work within a regulatory framework....it also has to deal with the fact that it's a human system. That said, OHIP does a good job overall. There were problems in this case, but now that the problems have surfaced...they'll be fixed (or at least attempts will be made). We hold our governments accountable here...especially when it comes to health care.

"we hold our govt. accountable here"....sounds like pie-in-the-sky to me......the #1 negative story that I've always heard about your healthcare is the same as mentioned in this story....so they aren't fixing the problems as you would like to think, so I'm not sure anyone is being held accountable....nice story, but just not true......

[suv_guy_19]

There is no problem with what happened. He needed service...and he was taken to where the service was...and it was paid for. Because every Canadian has access, we sometimes run out of room...and then we find room...wherever that room is. And yes, many of the problems have been fixed. They are being fixed all of the time.

Edited June 18, 2009 by suv_guy_19

[suv_guy_19]

"we hold our govt. accountable here"....sounds like pie-in-the-sky to me

 

 

It may sound like that to you, but it's the truth. We throw governments out for relatively small problems all of the time.

[napfirst]

It may sound like that to you, but it's the truth. We throw governments out for relatively small problems all of the time.

yeah, right...if you say so....

[suv_guy_19]

I do say so...because it's true.

[napfirst]

There is no problem with what happened. He needed service...and he was taken to where the service was...and it was paid for. Because every Canadian has access, we sometimes run out of room...and then we find room...wherever that room is. And yes, many of the problems have been fixed. They are being fixed all of the time.

 

 

There is no problem with what happened.There you go, the first step to getting better is to admit there's a problem He needed service...and he was taken to where the service was...and it was paid for. who paid for it? Because every Canadian has access, we sometimes run out of room another problem with your system, by your own admission you said there were a lot fewer people in Canada, so why do you run out of room..if I have to pay the same % taxes for this "FREE" healthcare, why should I have to travel to get care and my neighbor doesn't...and who makes the decision as to who gets and when?.and then we find room...wherever that room is. And yes, many of the problems have been fixed. They are being fixed all of the time.

Edited June 18, 2009 by napfirst

[suv_guy_19]

who paid for it?

 

According to the article, it was Ontario taxpayers.

 

another problem with your system, by your own admission you said there were a lot fewer people in Canada, so why do you run out of room..if I have to pay the same % taxes for this "FREE" healthcare, why should I have to travel to get care and my neighbor doesn't...and who makes the decision as to who gets and when?.

 

This is an extraordinary circumstance. This isn't a normal situation where a doctor would simply make a decision. It sounds like OHIP (just like a private insurance company) prefers to use a certain facility in the US for one reason or another. As I have already said, it is almost always doctors that make the decisions. This story is not about a normal situation.

 

And why do we run out of room? Well...fewer people...fewer taxpayers...less spent on health than in the US...results in somewhat less capacity. Everyone having full access results in full use of that capacity.

Edited June 18, 2009 by suv_guy_19

[RangerM]

ranting a little, but heres my question...say it was me , and I can't afford my $900 a month , then what?

 

Step 1. Raise your deductable to at least $5000

 

Step 2. Open a Health Savings Account, and begin to put as much money as you can afford each month

OR

If you go to the doctor often, open a Flexible Savings Account. Similar to an HSA, but with

pretax dollars.

 

Step 3. Do not allow your coverage to lapse. Obtaining a policy is always easier when you already

have one.

 

Step 4. Shop around. You don't have to accept the price you're quoted. I've talked down dentists to

half price, when I questioned what the insurance reimbursement would be for the same

procedure.

 

Step 5. Lower your expectations.

 

Life can suck sometimes. That's not intended to say "Tough Shit" or "Sucks to be you". But, there are times when we must accept temporary setback, if we hope to move on. A similar situation (to your GF) happened to my father. It was years before he was back up to where he had been. He and my mother sold their house (they would have lost it if they waited much longer) out of economic necessity. When he was well again, Dad discovered he was effectively unemployable (age). Eventually, Dad went back to school, got his Nursing Degree, and spent a few years pulling himself back up. I consider it a lesson learned (by me). (The lesson: Never...wilfully or not..... allow yourself to become obsolete)

 

There is no shame lowering one's lifestyle, particularly if the circumstance warrants it. Nor is there shame in getting help from your family. What IS shameful is denying reality, and (metaphorically) playing the violin while watching Rome burn.

 

You also may find this story interesting.

(AP) The health insurance industry offered Tuesday for the first time to curb its controversial practice of charging higher premiums to people with a history of medical problems.

 

The offer from America's Health Insurance Plans and the Blue Cross and Blue Shield Association is a potentially significant shift in the debate over reforming the nation's health care system to rein in costs and cover an estimated 48 million uninsured people. It was contained in a letter to key senators.

 

In the letter, the two insurance industry groups said their members are willing to "phase out the practice of varying premiums based on health status in the individual market" if all Americans are required to get coverage.........

[napfirst]

Step 1. Raise your deductable to at least $5000

 

Step 2. Open a Health Savings Account, and begin to put as much money as you can afford each month

OR

If you go to the doctor often, open a Flexible Savings Account. Similar to an HSA, but with

pretax dollars.

 

Step 3. Do not allow your coverage to lapse. Obtaining a policy is always easier when you already

have one.

 

Step 4. Shop around. You don't have to accept the price you're quoted. I've talked down dentists to

half price, when I questioned what the insurance reimbursement would be for the same

procedure.

 

Step 5. Lower your expectations.

 

Life can suck sometimes. That's not intended to say "Tough Shit" or "Sucks to be you". But, there are times when we must accept temporary setback, if we hope to move on. A similar situation (to your GF) happened to my father. It was years before he was back up to where he had been. He and my mother sold their house (they would have lost it if they waited much longer) out of economic necessity. When he was well again, Dad discovered he was effectively unemployable (age). Eventually, Dad went back to school, got his Nursing Degree, and spent a few years pulling himself back up. I consider it a lesson learned (by me). (The lesson: Never...wilfully or not..... allow yourself to become obsolete)

 

There is no shame lowering one's lifestyle, particularly if the circumstance warrants it. Nor is there shame in getting help from your family. What IS shameful is denying reality, and (metaphorically) playing the violin while watching Rome burn.

 

You also may find this story interesting.

Good post, practical advice......

[Ron W.]

lucky me, found someone that can put up w me...hahahaha....hell, my Mum has been taking the morning after pill ever since I was born....

 

My first thought, can you blame her :poke: :P

 

 

ranting a little, but heres my question...say it was me , and I can't afford my $900 a month , then what? what happens if I do get sick and can't afford treatment?....do I just show up on the doorstep become a burden on society, collect unemployment whilst racking up hundreds of thousands of medical bills....do I lose my house? My job? Do I then become homeless? and burden society all the more? Hell...I could always resort to crime I suppose, gives the Police something to do...and all the time who pays for it?....I sincerely do not know the answer, but I DO hope there is a happy medium somewhere that takes the benefits of BOTH programs....it is in NEED....

 

Good post, at this point I have zero insurance and zero income. Do I become a burden on society should I require health care, broken arm leg whatever. They won't get my house though, bought a foreclosed and paid in full but will of course need a job within a few months or flip the house. :stats:

 

Oh and Ranger if i had to pay a 5k deductable right now I would have to sell the house.

Edited June 18, 2009 by Ron W.

[RangerM]

Oh and Ranger if i had to pay a 5k deductable right now I would have to sell the house.

We do what what we must.

 

If you expect your situation will be temporary, perhaps a HELOC?

Edited June 18, 2009 by RangerM

[Trimdingman]

My one year old grand-son has to be at Sick Children's Hospital in Toronto for surgery first thing tomorrow morning, on the off chance they will be able to squeeze him in. The ICU is filled up at the present time. This is what we have to put up with. Toronto is 40 miles away. What about people who live 1000 miles away from Toronto?

 

This system stinks. You can be a hard worker, paying tens of thousands in taxes every year into government health care, with a serious illness, but you will wait in line behind the welfare bum who never worked a day in his life.

[Trimdingman]

P.S.......My grand-son's surgery is necessary because they botched it the first time.

[suv_guy_19]

Yes, because most places have a hospital like the Toronto Hospital for Sick Children right on every corner.....FYI, the ICU is probably full for the same reason that every ICU bed and more in Winnipeg is full...H1N1.

[napfirst]

P.S.......My grand-son's surgery is necessary because they botched it the first time.

We'll keep him in our thoughts.....

[napfirst]

My first thought, can you blame her :poke: :P

 

 

 

 

Good post, at this point I have zero insurance and zero income. Do I become a burden on society should I require health care, broken arm leg whatever. They won't get my house though, bought a foreclosed and paid in full but will of course need a job within a few months or flip the house. :stats:

 

Oh and Ranger if i had to pay a 5k deductable right now I would have to sell the house.

This is where I lose track of your argument.....it's going to cost over a trillion $'s for obama's healthcare plan....you say you don't want to be a burden on society........don't you think that the additional trillion $'s is going to be a burden.......I'm lost on your logic.....

[RangerM]

This is where I lose track of your argument.....it's going to cost over a trillion $'s for obama's healthcare plan....you say you don't want to be a burden on society........don't you think that the additional trillion $'s is going to be a burden.......I'm lost on your logic.....

Ron is in a similar situation as many others in the nation. Not that I'm defending his actions, but his choice is common.

 

When people are squeezed financially, they look for ways to economize. One of those options is to forego health insurance. Health insurance is effectively a valueless expense (and dropping it seems viable) if one is healthy, but it only redirects the risk from the insurance company to the person.

 

Let's use Ron as an example (no offense intended Ron): Right now Ron is effectively insuring himself, in exchange for not purchasing a relatively cheap policy at Blue Cross (I checked, BC of Cal has policies for under $100/mo). He is betting that he won't get sick (enough) to hurt himself financially. He has assumed the risk to save the cost of monthly health insurance premiums. If nothing happens, he will be ok, until he gets another job (although due to his lapse in coverage, he may be subject to certain limits that would not have been imposed otherwise). If he does have a catastrophic illness, he will be far worse off than a $5,000 deductible.

 

This has been the choice of many, and many have lost.

Edited June 18, 2009 by RangerM

[RangerM]

My one year old grand-son has to be at Sick Children's Hospital in Toronto for surgery first thing tomorrow morning, on the off chance they will be able to squeeze him in.

 

Prayers for your grandson.

[Ron W.]

We do what what we must.

 

Agreed, it was my choice to move.

 

 

My one year old grand-son has to be at Sick Children's Hospital in Toronto for surgery first thing tomorrow morning,

 

Best wishs for your grandson, hope for him and the family everything goes well.

 

Ron is in a similar situation as many others in the nation. Not that I'm defending his actions, but his choice is common.

 

When people are squeezed financially, they look for ways to economize. One of those options is to forego health insurance. Health insurance is effectively a valueless expense (and dropping it seems viable) if one is healthy, but it only redirects the risk from the insurance company to the person.

 

Let's use Ron as an example (no offense intended Ron): Right now Ron is effectively insuring himself, in exchange for not purchasing a relatively cheap policy at Blue Cross (I checked, BC of Cal has policies for under $100/mo). He is betting that he won't get sick (enough) to hurt himself financially. He has assumed the risk to save the cost of monthly health insurance premiums. If nothing happens, he will be ok, until he gets another job (although due to his lapse in coverage, he may be subject to certain limits that would not have been imposed otherwise). If he does have a catastrophic illness, he will be far worse off than a $5,000 deductible.

 

This has been the choice of many, and many have lost.

 

No offense taken, and I forgot that I had the trailer I moved with outside. So 5k wouldn't force me to sell the house just sell the trailer and use some of the money I have in the bank.

[Deanh]

Step 1. Raise your deductable to at least $5000

 

Step 2. Open a Health Savings Account, and begin to put as much money as you can afford each month

OR

If you go to the doctor often, open a Flexible Savings Account. Similar to an HSA, but with

pretax dollars.

 

Step 3. Do not allow your coverage to lapse. Obtaining a policy is always easier when you already

have one.

 

Step 4. Shop around. You don't have to accept the price you're quoted. I've talked down dentists to

half price, when I questioned what the insurance reimbursement would be for the same

procedure.

 

Step 5. Lower your expectations.

 

Life can suck sometimes. That's not intended to say "Tough Shit" or "Sucks to be you". But, there are times when we must accept temporary setback, if we hope to move on. A similar situation (to your GF) happened to my father. It was years before he was back up to where he had been. He and my mother sold their house (they would have lost it if they waited much longer) out of economic necessity. When he was well again, Dad discovered he was effectively unemployable (age). Eventually, Dad went back to school, got his Nursing Degree, and spent a few years pulling himself back up. I consider it a lesson learned (by me). (The lesson: Never...wilfully or not..... allow yourself to become obsolete)

 

There is no shame lowering one's lifestyle, particularly if the circumstance warrants it. Nor is there shame in getting help from your family. What IS shameful is denying reality, and (metaphorically) playing the violin while watching Rome burn.

 

You also may find this story interesting.

Diannes deductible WAS $4 or $5000...ALONG with a CHECK totalling $900 a month.....

[Deanh]

My first thought, can you blame her :poke: :P

 

 

 

 

Good post, at this point I have zero insurance and zero income. Do I become a burden on society should I require health care, broken arm leg whatever. They won't get my house though, bought a foreclosed and paid in full but will of course need a job within a few months or flip the house. :stats:

 

Oh and Ranger if i had to pay a 5k deductable right now I would have to sell the house.

Nap keeps asking who pays for the Trillion for reform....my counter is who NOW pays for the MILLIONS that cannot afford coverage and STILL get treated.....can't say its a wash but it sure bites a chunk out of the reform figure....and heres a quick question...IS that Trillion or so actually VISIBLY going to come out of each individuals paycheck, or will a percentage of what we already pay NOW just be re-allocated?????? I don't see Health Reform Tax, or GM bailout tax, or Chrysler or AIG tax itemized in my paycheck.....so IS it actually costing the public OR is the taxpayers money being utilized in different more prioritized areas?....

[napfirst]

Nap keeps asking who pays for the Trillion for reform....my counter is who NOW pays for the MILLIONS that cannot afford coverage and STILL get treated.....can't say its a wash but it sure bites a chunk out of the reform figure....and heres a quick question...IS that Trillion or so actually VISIBLY going to come out of each individuals paycheck, or will a percentage of what we already pay NOW just be re-allocated?????? I don't see Health Reform Tax, or GM bailout tax, or Chrysler or AIG tax itemized in my paycheck.....so IS it actually costing the public OR is the taxpayers money being utilized in different more prioritized areas?....

Ok...let me give this a shot......you ask: who pays the $millions now....and you're right it gets lumped into my insurance bill....the $50 bandaids at the ER...the $1500 MRI's......so now fast forward.....all the estimates that I hear are in the neighborhood of $1 trillion ADDITIONAL........to me that means add to the cost of the current system.....so, if people can't currently afford medical care, for whatever reason, who will foot the bill for the additional $1 trillion?........why should I have to pay for your healthcare?

[Deanh]

Ok...let me give this a shot......you ask: who pays the $millions now....and you're right it gets lumped into my insurance bill....the $50 bandaids at the ER...the $1500 MRI's......so now fast forward.....all the estimates that I hear are in the neighborhood of $1 trillion ADDITIONAL........to me that means add to the cost of the current system.....so, if people can't currently afford medical care, for whatever reason, who will foot the bill for the additional $1 trillion?........why should I have to pay for your healthcare?

you won't...see it itemized on your check?....so, right now everyon pays ( well some ) X amount of dollars for insurance per year...what does that amount tally too? waitin for treatment has been a big complaint about Socialist medicine...well guess what...you wait here too, only difference is you also pay and unless you screw with the system and have ZERO money you may not get treatment at all!!!!! Still don't think the system is flawed?....what about people ( like Dianne ) with distressed income, what if she couldn't afford the deductible....she wouldn't abuse the system, she would have no choice but to go back to ireland..or just flat out DIE....so, don't tell me its fine here, its not...its money run, I say BRING ON GOVT OVERSIGHT....in the long run it may be less costly and beneficial to those less fortunate than yourself Nap....and by you not having to pay my medical wouldn't it actually SAVE you money?????? Unless you can PROVE it will actually COST you money then you have ZERO argument...and you can't....SHOW me and i'll shut up..and SPECULATION means ZIP! Right now I beleive our Insurance premiums are inflated to cover the inherrant costs of subsidizing un-insured medical issues...take that away and it should SAVE $

Edited June 18, 2009 by Deanh

[Ron W.]

Ok...let me give this a shot......you ask: who pays the $millions now....and you're right it gets lumped into my insurance bill....the $50 bandaids at the ER...the $1500 MRI's......so now fast forward.....all the estimates that I hear are in the neighborhood of $1 trillion ADDITIONAL........to me that means add to the cost of the current system.....so, if people can't currently afford medical care, for whatever reason, who will foot the bill for the additional $1 trillion?........why should I have to pay for your healthcare?

 

 

you won't...see it itemized on your check?....so, right now everyon pays ( well some ) X amount of dollars for insurance per year...what does that amount tally too? waitin for treatment has been a big complaint about Socialist medicine...well guess what...you wait here too, only difference is you also pay and unless you screw with the system and have ZERO money you may not get treatment at all!!!!! Still don't think the system is flawed?....what about people ( like Dianne ) with distressed income, what if she couldn't afford the deductible....she wouldn't abuse the system, she would have no choice but to go back to ireland..or just flat out DIE....so, don't tell me its fine here, its not...its money run, I say BRING ON GOVT OVERSIGHT....in the long run it may be less costly and beneficial to those less fortunate than yourself Nap....and by you not having to pay my medical wouldn't it actually SAVE you money?????? Unless you can PROVE it will actually COST you money then you have ZERO argument...and you can't....SHOW me and i'll shut up..and SPECULATION means ZIP! Right now I beleive our Insurance premiums are inflated to cover the inherrant costs of subsidizing un-insured medical issues...take that away and it should SAVE $

 

OK just another shot in the dark (cue Peter Sellers) I think what NAP is saying is the hospitals have to absorb the cost of unpaid care so they raise the price of everyday needs such as bandaids, medecines, treatments etc. In this way "all" of us pay for it in one way or another. I am for oversite and although I don't think of myself as a socialist (voted for and wrote in Ron Paul) I think it's time that in a country like this we all receive medical coverage, and it should be equal care for the poor the, rich and especialy for the politicians that seem to receive special treatment. Let them sit in the waiting room for an hour like the rest of us.

[Deanh]

OK just another shot in the dark (cue Peter Sellers) I think what NAP is saying is the hospitals have to absorb the cost of unpaid care so they raise the price of everyday needs such as bandaids, medecines, treatments etc. In this way "all" of us pay for it in one way or another. I am for oversite and although I don't think of myself as a socialist (voted for and wrote in Ron Paul) I think it's time that in a country like this we all receive medical coverage, and it should be equal care for the poor the, rich and especialy for the politicians that seem to receive special treatment. Let them sit in the waiting room for an hour like the rest of us.

with ya...our company has switched carriers 5 times in the last 6 years due to skyrocketing costs...the carriers excuse....the burden of the uninsured......level the playing field...I don't care if I'm taxed 100 bux or more a month ( and my current medical costs are more than that obviously ) if my medical expense is nixed its a wash...as long as EVERYONE participates.....what is so wrong with THAT premise?....no more uninsured, everyone pays the same and everyone is covered..and agreed...NO special treatment for the "chosen" ones....it is only if THEY experience first hand that they can have input to overall improvements...

Edited June 18, 2009 by Deanh