RangerM Posted June 17, 2009 Author Share Posted June 17, 2009 (edited) good lord...and how many PEOPLE here are NOW starting to go overseas for major surguries due to exorbident costs??????? my gal has had TWO open heart surgeries...her insurance HERE is $900 a MONTH just for herself.....now she can't afford it...your answer nap ( mine is shes Irish and she can go home and have it done FOR FREE! ) Question, how is she insured now, under her employer or individual policy? And what is her deductible? Edited June 17, 2009 by RangerM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 I have no idea....enlighten us.......and define "free" as you used it here. not 1 dollar in monthly costs...no 900 a MONTH PLUS an additional $4000 in deductible PLUS a deductible for every pre surgery "check up"...youre a smart man DO THE MATH, all it costs her is a trip to Ireland....last check $699 return............perhaps the guy in Canada ( and I will be the first to admit i didn't read it as i find most media articles have their oown inbuilt agenda ) went to a place for superior treatment...some of the best doctors in certain fields DO NOT ACTUALLY PRACTICE HERE naps....or maybe he had a wait...my Grandmother at 93 had to wait 2 months for a hip replacement...and guess what....I'd wait 2 months as well, for a start off the parts are TITANIUM NOT a plastic derivitive as used here and guess how much it cost her...and once again...at the age of 93,,,just take a stab.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 not 1 dollar in monthly costs...no 900 a MONTH PLUS an additional $4000 in deductible PLUS a deductible for every pre surgery "check up"...youre a smart man DO THE MATH, all it costs her is a trip to Ireland....last check $699 return............perhaps the guy in Canada ( and I will be the first to admit i didn't read it as i find most media articles have their oown inbuilt agenda ) went to a place for superior treatment...some of the best doctors in certain fields DO NOT ACTUALLY PRACTICE HERE naps....or maybe he had a wait...my Grandmother at 93 had to wait 2 months for a hip replacement...and guess what....I'd wait 2 months as well, for a start off the parts are TITANIUM NOT a plastic derivitive as used here and guess how much it cost her...and once again...at the age of 93,,,just take a stab.... So free means that it didn't cost her anything.....it doesn't mena that the doctors, nurses or the hospital didn't get paid....is that correct.....so it wasn't free, it cost someone money.....who paid the bill? you're a smart guy, tell us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Question, how is she insured now, under her employer or individual policy? And what is her deductible? she is going under a group plan through favor by someone we don't even know....even then its dropping to $500 a month. She just started her own floral business, her ex husband died 3 years ago in a drowning accident...he also was self insured....shes also had to bring up two kids and insure them as well, and school and and and....but her biggest expense is the medical, the stress has bought her to tears numerous times...tough cookie. but a $900 a month cookie for a single Mum is a tough one to swallow....almost had her having to sell her house, and in a down market...it is situations such as these that anger me about the medical here...loophole after loophole, people having tyo go bankrupt due to choices and expense...and if you claim your premiums are either raised or you are cut. I personally see MEDICAL collections on close to half of the TRW bureaus I veiw...not saying socialist medicine is perfect but do not try and tell me its superior here until YOU have experienced the issue first hand....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 So free means that it didn't cost her anything.....it doesn't mena that the doctors, nurses or the hospital didn't get paid....is that correct.....so it wasn't free, it cost someone money.....who paid the bill? you're a smart guy, tell us.you really are an asshole Nap....so who pays for all the UNINSURED HERE that abuse and milk the system.....and please....compare INCOMES between doctors in a socialist program and here....so lesse, some of my taxes go to paying for socialist medicene...but somehow I think thats a little less than $900 a month...smart enough smart ass? Obviously YOU are unable to appreciate someone elses scenario...that is UNTIL YOU ARE IN THE SAME SITUATION......armchair expert! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 So free means that it didn't cost her anything.....it doesn't mena that the doctors, nurses or the hospital didn't get paid....is that correct.....so it wasn't free, it cost someone money.....who paid the bill? you're a smart guy, tell us. why should I care what the doctors and Nurses get paid ?, thats a little like the Nap atitude...don't give a rats if it doesn't affect ME....your self centeredness is showing its ugly head again...would love to see your attitude if you encountered a similar scenario...although i do feel for you with workmans comp.....as a business owner that MUST be an issue for you...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 PS...sorry if i'm a little snarky, ...but I am living vicariously thru someone else issues of whom I am fully aware of...and unless one has experienced it first hand I take umbrage to someone posting a one sided veiw of the issue....DON"T tell me the healthcare here is superior...it has definite weakness's....so does socialist...but from MY OWN EXPERIENCE in certain cases ( TWO of which I have stated ) it is superior and less costly for sure. Here it is a BUSINESS and more about the bottom line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted June 17, 2009 Author Share Posted June 17, 2009 (edited) she is going under a group plan through favor by someone we don't even know....even then its dropping to $500 a month. She just started her own floral business, her ex husband died 3 years ago in a drowning accident...he also was self insured....shes also had to bring up two kids and insure them as well, and school and and and....but her biggest expense is the medical, the stress has bought her to tears numerous times...tough cookie. but a $900 a month cookie for a single Mum is a tough one to swallow....almost had her having to sell her house, and in a down market...it is situations such as these that anger me about the medical here...loophole after loophole, people having tyo go bankrupt due to choices and expense...and if you claim your premiums are either raised or you are cut. I personally see MEDICAL collections on close to half of the TRW bureaus I veiw...not saying socialist medicine is perfect but do not try and tell me its superior here until YOU have experienced the issue first hand....... Sorry, but it's difficult to interpret the facts among the other stuff, but I'll try to provide some thoughts. First thing, it looks like you've found your answer when you say her insurance is dropping to $500/mo, however there are considerations. I don't know how she is accomplishing it, but if she is going under another company's group plan, there may (or may not) be a "pre-existing condition" exclusion for her heart, that cannot last more than 18 months (by Federal law, if I recall, but it may be shorter in CA). This may be dependent upon her last treatment for her heart condition. If her last policy was also a group plan, and she hasn't received treatement for her heart condition in the last 6 months, it cannot be considered a pre-existing condition. (Where I live in N.C. the law says that so long a coverage existed at anytime in the previous 60 days, then no exclusions, either. You may want to check local laws) It sounds like her last policy was an individual policy though, so some of the laws regarding portability may not apply. You say she is starting a floral business, so even though she as an individual cannot legally deduct healthcare premiums, if she incorporates (even S-corp), she can pay the premiums with pretax money. As a small business, she won't be able to get a group rate (you need more than 10 people in the plan). BUT, she can save money if she opts for a higher deductible, and uses funds from a health savings account. It will require diligence to put money there, though. I'm assuming she's also checked places like Blue Cross, as well. Here in N.C. they have individual high-deductible plans (incorporating H.S.A.) for very reasonable rates (<$130/mo), although there are many more factors to consider for your GF (that I don't know) that it's likely pointless to go into them. Edited June 17, 2009 by RangerM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 you really are an asshole Nap....so who pays for all the UNINSURED HERE that abuse and milk the system.....and please....compare INCOMES between doctors in a socialist program and here....so lesse, some of my taxes go to paying for socialist medicene...but somehow I think thats a little less than $900 a month...smart enough smart ass? Obviously YOU are unable to appreciate someone elses scenario...that is UNTIL YOU ARE IN THE SAME SITUATION......armchair expert! I've been there....you know what I did...went out and got an additional job.....at one time I worked on the line at Ford during the day, pumped gas at night amd cut lawns on the weekends...people want to sit on their asses and expect someone else to solve their problem......yeah the system now pays for the people who go to the ER and then don't pay thier bill.....but if the new system will be better why are the cost estimates now at $1.6 trillin......that's with a T.......there are no free lunches in this world.....most people work very hard for what they have.....this is the greatest country in the world...wart and all.....why do you think so many people want to come here.....look in the mirror my man.......only the best to your girlfriend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Sorry, but it's difficult to interpret the facts among the other stuff, but I'll try to provide some thoughts. First thing, it looks like you've found your answer when you say her insurance is dropping to $500/mo, however there are considerations. I don't know how she is accomplishing it, but if she is going under another company's group plan, there may (or may not) be a "pre-existing condition" exclusion for her heart, that cannot last more than 18 months (by Federal law, if I recall, but it may be shorter in CA). This may be dependent upon her last treatment for her heart condition. If her last policy was also a group plan, and she hasn't received treatement for her heart condition in the last 6 months, it cannot be considered a pre-existing condition. (Where I live in N.C. the law says that so long a coverage existed at anytime in the previous 60 days, then no exclusions, either. You may want to check local laws) It sounds like her last policy was an individual policy though, so some of the laws regarding portability may not apply. You say she is starting a floral business, so even though she as an individual cannot legally deduct healthcare premiums, if she incorporates (even S-corp), she can pay the premiums with pretax money. As a small business, she won't be able to get a group rate (you need more than 10 people in the plan). BUT, she can if she opts for a higher deductible, and uses funds from a health savings account. It will require diligence to put money there, though. I'm assuming she's also checked places like Blue Cross, as well. Here in N.C. they have individual high-deductible plans (incorporating H.S.A.) for very reasonable rates (<$130/mo), although there are many more factors to consider for your GF (that I don't know) that it's likely pointless to go into them. theres no easy answer...we have friend researching the issue that knows the ins and outs...FYI, and why he is so well versed is he had a child born with cancer of the brain stem, has been through 42 surgeries before the age of 10, has one side of her face semi paralysed and asked for a smile for her birthday...( I consider this kid a blessing and my adopted niece, shes a gem and just got to go to Harvard on some sort of program, VERY proud ) anyway, I digress...all I am saying is there is a reason people DO go un-insured, and the #1 issue is cost due to those that the agencies deem a risk and thus do not make good BUSINESS sense....my Di is an insurance risk that they would just LOVE to toss aside, they even had the audacity of raising her premiums POST operation...and TRIED to charge ADDITIONAl for services they said were NOT covered ( which ultimately we found out were bogus...but guess what, they sure wouldn't have refused the $ ) ...they made her feel like an automobile involved in a accident...it was ? IS all about profitability....but some here are obviously fine with that......BECAUSE they have never been in a similar situation THEMSELVES... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted June 17, 2009 Author Share Posted June 17, 2009 theres no easy answer True enough. However, when you throw millions of people into a system consisting of finite resources, and presumably no restrictions on demand, you will invariably have one of two things; severe rationing or extreme costs (and maybe a little less severe rationing). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 I've been there....you know what I did...went out and got an additional job.....at one time I worked on the line at Ford during the day, pumped gas at night amd cut lawns on the weekends...people want to sit on their asses and expect someone else to solve their problem......yeah the system now pays for the people who go to the ER and then don't pay thier bill.....but if the new system will be better why are the cost estimates now at $1.6 trillin......that's with a T.......there are no free lunches in this world.....most people work very hard for what they have.....this is the greatest country in the world...wart and all.....why do you think so many people want to come here.....look in the mirror my man.......only the best to your girlfriend. you win my admiration, however I doubt your "situation" was/ is as lifethreatining so your parallel loses its lustre....thats 900 a month CHECK nap..POST taxes...so she has to make approx $1350 a month just to pay for her own insurance...now add her two kids, mortgage and NECESSITYS and now what? Hey...maybe she should get into the MEDICAL BUSINESS...sure seems lucrative and predetory enough....hey, i'm not sold on anything...YET...all i know is the current system penalizes too many and rewards too many....you are critisizing a system you are wary of, BOTH systems have their advantages/ dis- advantages but you always seem afraid of change...the Health system here is NOTHING but a money printing business....and those that do not have the income suffer whilst the wealthy reap the rewards and Doctors get their bi yearly Bentleys.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 (edited) True enough. However, when you throw millions of people into a system consisting of finite resources, and presumably no restrictions on demand, you will invariably have one of two things; severe rationing or extreme costs (and maybe a little less severe rationing). flip side is it may curter those milking the system as of now, and peiople thnat cannot afford proceedures may and get back to work...so, nothings perfect, i just get wound up about my ga;s abuse by the system....hell at one stage she thought she was going to lose everything and have to go BK....I find it absolutely OFFENSIVE that she is veiwed as a $ symbol...nothing more nothing less.... Edited June 17, 2009 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 I've been there....you know what I did...went out and got an additional job.....at one time I worked on the line at Ford during the day, pumped gas at night amd cut lawns on the weekends...people want to sit on their asses and expect someone else to solve their problem......yeah the system now pays for the people who go to the ER and then don't pay thier bill.....but if the new system will be better why are the cost estimates now at $1.6 trillin......that's with a T.......there are no free lunches in this world.....most people work very hard for what they have.....this is the greatest country in the world...wart and all.....why do you think so many people want to come here.....look in the mirror my man.......only the best to your girlfriend. oh, and appreciate the sentiment Nap, apologies for the name calling....dainty footlong scar between her "toys" now....was not a fun time in the hospital I can tell you, but Hoag has one of the best open heart surgeons in the world apparently. She now has a "pigs" valve, and they also discovered a hole she had sewn up....seems to be fine, but she has a propensity to like wallowing in mud....LOL! ( sorry, i deal with situations like this with warped attempts at humour ).... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted June 17, 2009 Author Share Posted June 17, 2009 I find it absolutely OFFENSIVE that she is veiwed as a $ symbol...nothing more nothing less.... That's the way it is with any bureaucracy; corporate AND government. She has you, and your warmth is enough to sustain her. Sometimes when we deal with adversity, we appreciate the other things (and people) around us more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 That's the way it is with any bureaucracy; corporate AND government. She has you, and your warmth is enough to sustain her. Sometimes when we deal with adversity, we appreciate the other things (and people) around us more. lucky me, found someone that can put up w me...hahahaha....hell, my Mum has been taking the morning after pill ever since I was born.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 (edited) Canadian man goes to Buffalo to get cancer treatment More horror stories of the Canadian health system Did you read the story? Although things went a bit quirky, he's getting everything paid for. Edited June 17, 2009 by suv_guy_19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 (edited) Did you read the story? yup. Wonder how whomever subsidizes my health care would feel if I expected them to pay my bill if I went OUT of the country to get treatment...shitty for him though,,,,BUT he is getting the treatment...he probably would have had to wait here too...maybe not as long, but he would have ALSO been out of substantial change..... Edited June 17, 2009 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 (edited) It is. It's unfortunate that Canada can't have every treatment available all of the time, but because of our relatively small population, it isn't always feasible...although I'm surprised the Princess Margaret, which is located in Toronto and is the third largest cancer research hospital in the world, didn't have it available. Edited June 17, 2009 by suv_guy_19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 It is. It's unfortunate that Canada can't have every treatment available all of the time, but because of our relatively small population, it isn't always feasible...although I'm surprised the Princess Margret, which is located in Toronto and is the third largest cancer research hospital in the world, didn't have it available. There you go....you almost answered your own question.......be careful, you're close to using logic in your thinking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Did you read the story? Although things went a bit quirky, he's getting everything paid for. I read the entire story....so tell me why do you think this story was in the newspaper.....was it 1) to show how effective the OHIP was or 2) to show flaws in the system.....be honest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 (edited) I read the entire story....so tell me why do you think this story was in the newspaper.....was it 1) to show how effective the OHIP was or 2) to show flaws in the system.....be honest call me a conspiracist but i don't see many articles or news events trumpeting ANYTHING positive about ANYTHING..... Edited June 17, 2009 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 The news is negative because negative sells. OHIP isn't perfect, and I have never said that it is. It's one of the best systems in this country, but it isn't perfect. It has to work within a budget and it has to work within a regulatory framework....it also has to deal with the fact that it's a human system. That said, OHIP does a good job overall. There were problems in this case, but now that the problems have surfaced...they'll be fixed (or at least attempts will be made). We hold our governments accountable here...especially when it comes to health care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 It is. It's unfortunate that Canada can't have every treatment available all of the time, but because of our relatively small population, it isn't always feasible...although I'm surprised the Princess Margret, which is located in Toronto and is the third largest cancer research hospital in the world, didn't have it available. I will find out how long it took Diane to get in for her surgery....i know it was over a year of waiting and testing...and she was told she had no holes in the heart ( which they found when they opened her up ).....one test involved stopping and starting her heart!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 ranting a little, but heres my question...say it was me , and I can't afford my $900 a month , then what? what happens if I do get sick and can't afford treatment?....do I just show up on the doorstep become a burden on society, collect unemployment whilst racking up hundreds of thousands of medical bills....do I lose my house? My job? Do I then become homeless? and burden society all the more? Hell...I could always resort to crime I suppose, gives the Police something to do...and all the time who pays for it?....I sincerely do not know the answer, but I DO hope there is a happy medium somewhere that takes the benefits of BOTH programs....it is in NEED.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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