Upcoming Ford Powertrains

[ds91776]

Yesterday I was thinking about how much new and important product that Ford has in the pipeline for the 2011 Model Year (Fiesta, Focus, Explorer, updated Edge, Mercury C-Car, and updated MKX are just the ones that are obviously happening) and I began to really think about what powertrains are going to debut in the next two years. So basically I just wanted to throw out what I remember the rumors being and just seeing what everyone here thinks/knows.

 

5.0V8: We know that the Mustang...and I assume F-150, Expedition, and Navigator, will receive this new V8. Now, will it replace the 5.4V8 or the 3valve 4.6V8 in the F-150? We know that the Mustang GT will get the 5.0 making 400 hp. So will the F-150 have a 296 hp V8 and then a 400 hp V8 or will it have a 310/320 hp V8 and then a 400 hp V8. Or will an ecoboost V6 replace the 4.6 V8 (3 valve) and the 5.4V8? I can also imagine the Expedition and Navigator getting the 5.0 V8, at least as an option.

 

3.7V6: For now, the only F/L/M products with this V6 are the MKS and MKT. But to me, 273/275 hp is enough, but in order to compete with many base V6s that are out or coming out soon, it really needs an extra 20 hp, and ideally 300 hp. The EcoBoost V6 already makes 55-65 more horsepower than that, so it will still be a sizable upgrade. My question is: does Ford/Lincoln plan to upgrade the 3.7V6 anytime soon? It seems to me it would make sense to do so at the latest by 2012, the projected update model year for the MKS.

 

3.5V6 EcoBoost: My question is, we have a 355 and 365 hp versions already nearly out the door, but will the MKR's 415 hp version ever be produced? I would love to see this in the F-150, Expedition, MKS, a production MKR, and possibly a Thunderbird Hardtop Convertible model in the future. Will this super-high-performance version get made? I think it should, especially if the 3.7V6 goes to 300 hp or so, the MKS and MKT would be even better with a hi-po version to really meet and exceed luxury V8 power...even better than the XF's new 5.0V8!

 

1.6I4 EcoBoost: For a few years now, I had been hearing that this engine would make around 200 hp as a step inbetween the 2.5I4-175 hp engine and the larger EcoBoost I4 and regular V6's. But recently, from the MKC concept and the Volvo S60 concept, it appears that it will make 180 hp and apparently a replacement for the pretty much brand new 2.5I4. What is the story here?

 

2.0/2.5I4 EcoBoost: This has been an area of confusion for me, and apparently others. The upcoming EcoBoost I4 that is going into so many new FoMoCo products...is it an EcoBoost version of the new 2.5I4 or is it a EcoBoost version the 2.0I4 that is used in the Mazda 3, or is it a new 2.0I4 version based off of the 2.5 I4 or what. Practically every other report I read alternates between saying it will be a 2.0 or a 2.5 I4. Because this is the money-maker in my opinion. This engine is supposed to make between 260-275 hp in standard versions with a 300 hp version as a bonus, possibly in use for a performance Fusion, and SVO Mustang, or even in the F-150. In its 260-275 hp versions it will power the Explorer, Taurus, Fusion, Edge, Escape, and possibly many more, essentially replacing the standard 3.0V6 and 3.5V6 in the lineup. Making that kinda power with multiple MPGs improvements over the V6 is a win-win for Ford customers and should be a big reason to buy Ford in the future...if I were GM I would be trying to get the I4 used in the Cobalt SS in the Malibu and Equinox ASAP.

 

And one final question: does anyone know if the 2011 Explorer will launch with the EcoBoost 2.0/2.5 I4 as standard with the 3.5V6 EcooBoost as an option (which will happen) or will the I4 be introduced later as standard or as an option? I guess I am asking if for 2011 if the standard engine will be the 265 hp version of the 3.5 V6 with the EcoBoost 3.5 as an option with the EcoBoost I4 as an option or as standard in the 2nd or 3rd model year. I am hoping it will be standard at launch and absolutely kill the Highlander and Pilot (which I think it will in most other aspects anyway). In my opinion the new Explorer could be a big hit for Ford.

[V8 Ford]

From what I remember off these boards:

 

6.2L "Boss" V8. Confirmed as V10 replacement in Super duty and has been shown off in the Raptor and Harley Davidson F-150.

 

6.7L "Scorpion" Diesel. In house replacement for the Navstar built 6.4 Powerstroke.

 

4.4L Diesel. For F-150, Expedition. Rumored to be on hold, hasn't been in the news lately. IIRC, it was supposed to debut in 2010 F-150's

 

5.0L "Bobcat" V8. http://www.pickuptrucks.com/html/news/ford...med-bobcat.html

 

I expect we'll see something new for the 2011 GT500 in too.

Edited April 20, 2009 by V8 Ford

[WaylonJennings]

I expect we'll see something new for the 2011 GT500 in too.

 

I wouldn't be shocked to hear that the 2011 GT500 got the 6.2L Boss. (if it can even fit) lol

Edited April 20, 2009 by WaylonJennings

[focus05]

1.6 Ecoboost confirmed - starts production in the UK end of this year. 160 - 190 hp range likely.

2.0 Ecoboost is the 4-cylinder in the works. See the new 2.0DI coming in the 3 and Focus next year. 250hp?

3.5 Ecoboost in RWD platforms. Definitely coming in the F-150 soon. Probably higher horsepower and torque than the MKS/SHO/MKT/Flex.

 

3.7V6 - no idea on this one, although now that Ford has updated its Aussie 4.0, I'd rather they adapt that for RWD applications worldwide.

 

5.0 V8 - been wondering the same things as far as placement in the lineup.

 

There's also a 1.0 in the works for Europe that will be boosted.

There's also supposedly a 1.2-1.4 in the works for use in the Focus line-up here and abroad. Not sure if it is the new 1.0 architecture or not.

[battyr]

I have read about a 1.0L 3 cylinder Fox engine. I have also read about a 1.0L 4 cylinder EB. Maybe the 4 cylinder is a little bigger.

 

Can anyone confirm?

[theoldwizard]

From what I remember off these boards:

 

6.2L "Boss" V8. Confirmed as V10 replacement in Super duty and has been shown off in the Raptor and Harley Davidson F-150.

On schedule for late 2010MY or early 2011MY.

 

6.7L "Scorpion" Diesel. In house replacement for the Navstar built 6.4 Powerstroke.

On schedule for a early 2010CY introduction. F series Super Duty only !

 

4.4L Diesel. For F-150, Expedition. Rumored to be on hold...

Definitely on hold. GM's cancellation of their similar sized diesel did not help. Maybe, just maybe, if diesel fuel prices drop below regular and stay there, it might come back to life.

 

This leaves no diesel for E Series !

 

5.0L "Bobcat" V8.

Nothing but a dream. Good idea, but much too expensive (PFI and DI and turbo and CGI).

 

PowerShift automatic (dual clutch) will show up in the US first in the Fiesta. There will be a different version of this transmission coming for the Focus, but I don't think it make the launch of the new US Focus. PowerShift is a definite possibility for future Fusion models.

[chiefstang]

Holy crap. Waylon Jennings posts here.... WAYLON JENNINGS!!!!!

[battyr]

...

Nothing but a dream. Good idea, but much too expensive (PFI and DI and turbo and CGI).

...

 

I read a report on Bobcat and the best I could figure is that by most, it would have 5% improvement in fuel efficiency over the EcoBoost. The only real advantage is the ability to handle massive boost. Not worth the cost.

 

I have read a lot about alternate exotic engine designs. Funny, they don't seem to have any advantage over EcoBoost.

'

[twmalonehunter]

I read a report on Bobcat and the best I could figure is that by most, it would have 5% improvement in fuel efficiency over the EcoBoost. The only real advantage is the ability to handle massive boost. Not worth the cost.

 

I have read a lot about alternate exotic engine designs. Funny, they don't seem to have any advantage over EcoBoost.

'

 

So is the Mustang GT going to get a 5.0L, or will it carry on with the 4.6L?

[battyr]

So is the Mustang GT going to get a 5.0L, or will it carry on with the 4.6L?

 

4.6L will be dead. It will get the new 5.0L to start. Bobcat version is just some lab experiments with ethanol, likely will never make it to production. Maybe an EcoBoost 2.0L, 3.5L and 5.0L over time. I doubt that the 6.2L would fit. If it does, I would think it will be heavy and short of breath.

[TopCat501]

So is the Mustang GT going to get a 5.0L, or will it carry on with the 4.6L?

 

Pretty much everything I've read says the Mustang GT gets the 400HP 5.0 motor for MY2011. But my understanding is that Mustang MY2011 doesn't hit the lots until September unlike MY2010 which was an early introduction. So you are talking almost a year and a half wait.

 

2011 GT500 appears to be getting an aluminum block 5.4 engine. Will save 70lb in the nose of the car which is where it needs weight reduction. I base this solely on the fact that a well known GT500 mod shop which regularly interacts with Ford Racing reported receiving an aluminum 5.4 from Ford for developmental work.

[blksn8k2]

Doesn't it seem odd that the GT500 would continue to use the 5.4, even if it is an aluminum block version? What about all the talk of the end of production for the modular V8s? This is the performance flagship for SVT. It should showcase the latest technology. I would rather see a turbo version of the Coyote 5.0 in the GT500. Or is that being saved for the next generation of the SVT Mustang?

[rmc523]

5.0V8: We know that the Mustang...and I assume F-150, Expedition, and Navigator, will receive this new V8. Now, will it replace the 5.4V8 or the 3valve 4.6V8 in the F-150? We know that the Mustang GT will get the 5.0 making 400 hp. So will the F-150 have a 296 hp V8 and then a 400 hp V8 or will it have a 310/320 hp V8 and then a 400 hp V8. Or will an ecoboost V6 replace the 4.6 V8 (3 valve) and the 5.4V8? I can also imagine the Expedition and Navigator getting the 5.0 V8, at least as an option.

 

As you said, I'd assume F-150/Expy/'Gator will recieve this. I'd say replacement for the 5.4L, while a smaller EcoBoost engine (3.5?) will replace the 4.6.

 

3.7V6: For now, the only F/L/M products with this V6 are the MKS and MKT. But to me, 273/275 hp is enough, but in order to compete with many base V6s that are out or coming out soon, it really needs an extra 20 hp, and ideally 300 hp. The EcoBoost V6 already makes 55-65 more horsepower than that, so it will still be a sizable upgrade. My question is: does Ford/Lincoln plan to upgrade the 3.7V6 anytime soon? It seems to me it would make sense to do so at the latest by 2012, the projected update model year for the MKS.

 

I see the 3.7 spreading to be standard in all updated Lincoln models from now going forward....I'm actually a bit surprised it didn't make it's way into the MKZ with it's recent MCE, but perhaps since only Fusion Sport will be available with the 3.5 in the CD3 range, they feel it's still exclusive enough for the Lincoln in that segment. Just guessing, but I'm thinking you may see an increase in power for this engine (~20-30hp) in the near future to further differentiate it from the ever-ubiquitous 3.5. This will also put it more in the middle of the 3.5 and EB 3.5 as you said.

 

3.5V6 EcoBoost: My question is, we have a 355 and 365 hp versions already nearly out the door, but will the MKR's 415 hp version ever be produced? I would love to see this in the F-150, Expedition, MKS, a production MKR, and possibly a Thunderbird Hardtop Convertible model in the future. Will this super-high-performance version get made? I think it should, especially if the 3.7V6 goes to 300 hp or so, the MKS and MKT would be even better with a hi-po version to really meet and exceed luxury V8 power...even better than the XF's new 5.0V8!

 

As much as I'd love to see an engine like this spread about the lineup, especially a Tbird as you mentioned, I don't really see that happening. IIRC, the MKR's engine ran off ethanol, which also lends itself to the increased power over the released EB 3.5 numbers. You may see an increase in power to SHO levels (~15hp) for Lincoln models, but I don't know.

 

1.6I4 EcoBoost: For a few years now, I had been hearing that this engine would make around 200 hp as a step inbetween the 2.5I4-175 hp engine and the larger EcoBoost I4 and regular V6's. But recently, from the MKC concept and the Volvo S60 concept, it appears that it will make 180 hp and apparently a replacement for the pretty much brand new 2.5I4. What is the story here?

 

Not sure, unless the 2.5 was always meant to be a stopgap....isn't it an upgraded 2.3(?)?

 

2.0/2.5I4 EcoBoost: This has been an area of confusion for me, and apparently others. The upcoming EcoBoost I4 that is going into so many new FoMoCo products...is it an EcoBoost version of the new 2.5I4 or is it a EcoBoost version the 2.0I4 that is used in the Mazda 3, or is it a new 2.0I4 version based off of the 2.5 I4 or what. Practically every other report I read alternates between saying it will be a 2.0 or a 2.5 I4. Because this is the money-maker in my opinion. This engine is supposed to make between 260-275 hp in standard versions with a 300 hp version as a bonus, possibly in use for a performance Fusion, and SVO Mustang, or even in the F-150. In its 260-275 hp versions it will power the Explorer, Taurus, Fusion, Edge, Escape, and possibly many more, essentially replacing the standard 3.0V6 and 3.5V6 in the lineup. Making that kinda power with multiple MPGs improvements over the V6 is a win-win for Ford customers and should be a big reason to buy Ford in the future...if I were GM I would be trying to get the I4 used in the Cobalt SS in the Malibu and Equinox ASAP.

 

And one final question: does anyone know if the 2011 Explorer will launch with the EcoBoost 2.0/2.5 I4 as standard with the 3.5V6 EcooBoost as an option (which will happen) or will the I4 be introduced later as standard or as an option? I guess I am asking if for 2011 if the standard engine will be the 265 hp version of the 3.5 V6 with the EcoBoost 3.5 as an option with the EcoBoost I4 as an option or as standard in the 2nd or 3rd model year. I am hoping it will be standard at launch and absolutely kill the Highlander and Pilot (which I think it will in most other aspects anyway). In my opinion the new Explorer could be a big hit for Ford.

 

I seem to remember reading something about the EB 2.0/2.5 I4 may not be available at launch.

 

*All the above replies were based on either 1) what I recall reading around here, or 2) my personal thoughts/ideas, so they may or may not be correct.

[battyr]

Doesn't it seem odd that the GT500 would continue to use the 5.4, even if it is an aluminum block version? What about all the talk of the end of production for the modular V8s? This is the performance flagship for SVT. It should showcase the latest technology. I would rather see a turbo version of the Coyote 5.0 in the GT500. Or is that being saved for the next generation of the SVT Mustang?

 

The Coyote 5.0 is a new engine and better optimized for power. I would think it would be easier to get the power out of the 5.0. I think it is a matter of time. I don't see how the 5.4L would have any advantages over the 5.0. You just have to wait for Ford to get all the different versions of the 5.0 out.

[battyr]

The Coyote 5.0 is a new engine and better optimized for power. I would think it would be easier to get the power out of the 5.0. I think it is a matter of time. I don't see how the 5.4L would have any advantages over the 5.0. You just have to wait for Ford to get all the different versions of the 5.0 out.

 

If I understand correctly. The 5.4 has a longer stroke and is 10% larger. It might be better for high torque applications like trucks. On the other hand, with cylinder deactivation, the 6.2L would have more torque and be more fuel efficient.

 

You add confusion behind the EcoBoost and diesels, I would think the 5.4 would be dying pretty soon.

[lfeg]

There seems to be some optimistic thinking here. Given recent actions by the appointees of our exaulted leader, it looks as if fuel efficiency requirements may drastically increase. CO2 emissions will probably be regulated, and this will require engine downsizing and all that goes along with it. With this in mind, the smaller EcoBoost engines will probably have greater use, especially on the car and small pickup side, and all V8s will have limited availability starting about 4 to 5 years out.

[Blacksheep]

If I understand correctly. The 5.4 has a longer stroke and is 10% larger. It might be better for high torque applications like trucks. On the other hand, with cylinder deactivation, the 6.2L would have more torque and be more fuel efficient.

 

You add confusion behind the EcoBoost and diesels, I would think the 5.4 would be dying pretty soon.

Does anyone here have any insite as to whether the new 5.0 will employ some form of cylinder deactivation? Also what about the timeline for it to go into the F-150?

[old_fairmont_wagon]

My only thoughts on the aluminum 5.4L block that's going around is that, there is a LOT of tech out there for the 5.4L since the Ford GT and now the GT 500 used hi-po versions of it. It may be a case of Ford trying to keep things somewhat simpler on the engine front. The aluminum 5.4L blocks are probably coming from a contracted casting facility and not one of Ford's regular engine/casting plants. This is a low volume unit, and manageable through a third party. IF they've also made a few other improvements to that 5.4L besides just making it aluminum, like allowing for variable cam phasing on the DOHC heads, then a lighter, higher tech 5.4L could produce remarkable power for whoever uses it. Look at what it curently does in the 2010 GT 500, now, shave 75-100 lbs off the front end (assuming other weight saving measures have been taken). How does that improve the handling? With VCT, you can easily add 50 or so HP and Torque to its current numbers (which is a bit under 10% improvement, definitely in the realm of possibility). What does THAT do to the performance of the car? The 2010 already blows past regular vets and can play with Z06s (assuming a decent driver is behind the wheel). With those two improvements, it should be a much better match for the Z06 and might even cause a ZR-1 driver to have to work a little.

 

As for the rest of the line, I was under the impression that the MAzda 2.5L is simply an enlarged D20/23. Ford doesn't use that due to it not passing their durability requirements. The 2.5L in the Ford's is an engine that is based on the D20/23, but with fundamental improvements to meet their requirements. The 2.0L is carried forward at this point. As for the Ecoboosts, I understand it was always a 2.0L I-4 as the smaller one and the EB 3.5L as the v6. Those were to be the mainstream models. There was a smaller EB planned to be able to replace the smaller I4s. It was a 1.6L in some stories, a 1.4L in others. The announced EB1.6L was for europe only at this point.

 

As for the 5.0L, there were to be two different tunes of it at launch next year. A higher HP tune for the mustang and a broader torque, but lower HP tune for the F-150. It is a replacement for the 5.4L 3V in that it will have markedly better HP and equivalent torque or perhaps slightly better. There are, from what I've seen from Blue II, several different versions of the 5.0L in various stages of development, some of which may not ever see the light of day. Apparently, they are or were, looking at an EB version of that 5.0L that produced better power than the 6.2L on the bench. Given how much of a fuel hog the 6.2L is supposed to be, it may be sooner, rather than later, that we see the EB 5.0L replace it in many applications.

 

As for the 4.4L being on hold, and there being no diesel available for the E-series, what does Ford do here? The 6.2L replaces the V-10 as the gas engine of choice for that chasis, bringing very little to the table in the form of better efficiency or power (but perhaps cheaper cost of operations due to having two fewer cylinders?). Does the 3.5L EB see duty there as well? That could bring sufficient power and substantial improvements to economy for many operators over any of the current offerings. I know that the 5.4L is currently offered in them, does the 5.0L coyote appear here as well? If so, does its efficiency improvements also make it a potential go to candidate for that application?

[battyr]

Does anyone here have any insite as to whether the new 5.0 will employ some form of cylinder deactivation? Also what about the timeline for it to go into the F-150?

 

I don't know, but I understand that it is easier to add to a push rod engine. Since the 6.2 needs it more it gets both push rods and cylinder deactivation.

 

Ford may use other technology on the 5.0L It is not economical to use all the fuel savings technology on the same engine, just the most economic.

[soupy]

3.7V6 - no idea on this one, although now that Ford has updated its Aussie 4.0, I'd rather they adapt that for RWD applications worldwide.

 

I believe 2011 Mustang will get the 3.7 as base engine. To bad it wasn't 2010.

[White99GT]

2011 GT500 appears to be getting an aluminum block 5.4 engine. Will save 70lb in the nose of the car which is where it needs weight reduction. I base this solely on the fact that a well known GT500 mod shop which regularly interacts with Ford Racing reported receiving an aluminum 5.4 from Ford for developmental work.

 

I've noticed Ford Racing has begun listing these:

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_...tKeyField=10443

 

It peaked my interest because the last I heard Ford GT aluminum block inventory was running extremely low, so it seemed odd that Ford Racing would just start listing a wet-sump 5.4 aluminum block for sale. :shrug:

[White99GT]

Look at what it curently does in the 2010 GT 500, now, shave 75-100 lbs off the front end (assuming other weight saving measures have been taken). How does that improve the handling? With VCT, you can easily add 50 or so HP and Torque to its current numbers (which is a bit under 10% improvement, definitely in the realm of possibility). What does THAT do to the performance of the car?

 

SVT could get an additional 20-30 HP out of the GT500 5.4L by just adopting the Ford GT camshaft set, much less VCT.

Currently, the GT500 is using the tiny 03/04 Cobra cam set with just 184 degrees of duration (@ .050) on the intake and 196 degrees on the exhaust, and only .397" lift on both.

 

Ford GT cams offer another ~10 degrees of duration on both the intake and exhaust, and increases lift up beyond .450", which is a much better match for the large port Ford GT/GT500 cylinder head.

[blksn8k2]

Does anyone know what engine the off-road F150s use in their racing series (SCORE, etc.)? If they are using the 5.4 instead of the NASCAR 5.8 I could see a market there for an aluminum block which could explain why Ford Racing is selling a wet sump version. Road racing maybe? Probably not legal in most short track stock car racing series and I doubt there is that much interest for drag racing (NHRA). The old pushrod motors have to be way less expensive to build and maintain which would explain why Ford Racing offers so many different pushrod crate motors and parts.

[White99GT]

The old pushrod motors have to be way less expensive to build and maintain which would explain why Ford Racing offers so many different pushrod crate motors and parts.

 

The pushrods may be less expensive to build, but they are more expensive to maintain in a racing environment per the likes of RoushYates and Ford Racing.

 

The stock Mod motor valve train is good to 9000+ rpm and don't require solid tappets and such to get there.

 

Ford uses a 700 HP 5.4 4V (n/a) in Trophy Truck:

http://www.off-road.com/trucks4x4/article/...l.jsp?id=353925

Edited April 21, 2009 by White99GT

[jpd80]

Does anyone know what engine the off-road F150s use in their racing series (SCORE, etc.)? If they are using the 5.4 instead of the NASCAR 5.8 I could see a market there for an aluminum block which could explain why Ford Racing is selling a wet sump version. Road racing maybe? Probably not legal in most short track stock car racing series and I doubt there is that much interest for drag racing (NHRA). The old pushrod motors have to be way less expensive to build and maintain which would explain why Ford Racing offers so many different pushrod crate motors and parts.

Spring pressure - that's what kills mass production OHV motors.

Multi valve heads with overhead cams offer light valve trains needing much less spring seat pressure.

I doubt GM will keep their 2-valve push rod V8 engine for much longer, the EPA regulations will kill it.

Edited April 21, 2009 by jpd80