Will New Fuel Additive Damage Ford Engines?

[Guest Sixcav]

As most of you may know, recently the federal government began requiring oil companies to replace the fuel additived MTBE with Ethanol in all gasoline sold here in the US. This of course caused the price of gas to go up. Well that and a thunderstorm in Zimbabwe. LOL. No seriously, the addition of ethanol to gas has caused the price to go up. We all know how much the cost of gas has increased in recent weeks. Everytime we turn around it goes up another nickle. The curious thing is this, I was watching a story on Fox News earlier and the man being inteviewed just flat out blammed the majority of price increases here on speculators. Did any of you know that we currently have more oil in reserves here in the states than we have in years. In point of fact, the last time we had this much in reserve the cost of a barrel of oil was $10. We are currenlty paying just shy of $70. This is evidently the only industry on the planet where supply and demand do not apply. Here's an industry where as an oil company you front all the money to find, pump and refine oil from the ground. You own the pumps, you own the refinerries, but for some strange reason a bunch of jerkweed speculators in New York who likely take the subway to work everyday get to decide how much your gas is worth. Where the hell does that make sense? Anyway, getting back to my original point. So now they are adding ethanol to gasoline. Now I drive a 2006 Mustang GT and it clearly says right in the owners manual not to use any fuels with methanol additives. Now I've done a little research and discovered that methanol and ethanol are very similar in molecular design. Ethanol is derived from sugar cane, corn and some other crops while Methanol is derived from coal. But the end result is an alcohol based fuel additived that is very similiar in molecular deisgn and function. So my question is simply this. Will ethanol cause damage to my fuel system as methanol will? Has Ford looked into this? For their sake I hope so, because if my fuel system gets damaged because of ethanol additive then so will millions of other engines and guess who's ultimately responsible for that repair bill Ford?

[Blueblood]

76 stations replaced MTBE with 10% Ethanol a few years ago, haven't heard of any problems with it at all, actually all the problems seemed to come from MTBE so I think our cars will be fine.

 

Shouldn't this raise the octane a bit too?

 

I guess as long as the percentage of Ethanol is low, like 10%, normal gas engines can run on it just fine, it's where you start using E85 which I think is 85% Ethanol that you would run into problems unless your car is made for it like the Flex fuel Rangers..

[cheri/ck]

Surely you understand that Ford is never at fault. It's always the customer that makes the mistake that affects the durability of their products.

 

Interesting and good post.

[Bob Rosadini]

10% ethanol blends have been used for a long time. Connecticut and NY (Metro NYC only) mandated it two years ago. The current swithch to ethanol blends in southern NH, Mass, RI, NJ and metro Philly is industry driven to avoid the liability they would face if they continued to use MTBE. the bigger issue is we will pay. Ethanol will contitute 10% of a gallon. The problem is it can't be shipped in pipelines. So you are taking 10% of the gasoline out of the lowest cost distribution mode.

 

In its place, ethanol will primarily be shipped by rail from the midwest, to east coast terminals wwhere some will be reshipped on barges while most will go by truck to the distribution terminals where it is blended as the tank trucks are loaded.

 

Think of it, you have 10% of the volume in the huge Northeast market that will go from the most efficient distribution mode (pipeline) to the most costly- rail and truck. Prices will go up- bet on it. The ethanol industry is scrambling to build platns but they will not keep up. The oil industry is trying to get very high tariffs lifted on improted ethanol but the American ethanol/farm lobby is blocking that.

 

Chalk this up to a victory of the American farm lobby, and the ethanol industry over the oil industry.

 

As usual, we the consumers will lose.

[sullynd]

10% Ethanol has been used in the midwest instead of MTBE for a LONG time... I'd say at least 5 years if not more.

[ptschett]

Half the problem is that there are something like 45 boutique blends, with slight differences, for regions which have smog problems (or Minnesota, which went all-oxygenated anyway.) If these regions which need the special fuels could get their heads together and pick just one, it'd help greatly.

 

Almost everything can handle 10% ethanol forever, and it'll keep your gas tank clean and water-free too. (I can even run 10% in my KLR650 if I wanted to.) Problems come at higher concentrations in non FFV's which don't have the ability to compensate for the different blends they might encounter.

 

Now, methanol is something different. Both methanol and ethanol are alcohols... methanol is related to the methane molecule (1 carbon atom) and ethanol to ethane (2 carbon atoms.) They have different effects however. For example, drinking 12 oz. of 6% methanol solution is a good way to go blind. 12 oz containers of 6% ethanol solution can be found in convenient 30-packs in a refrigerator at the liquor store.

 

As a fuel, methanol can corrode aluminum. Ethanol's main problem as a fuel is that it has detrimental effects on certain plastics and rubbers in sufficiently high concentrations (hose materials can be one of the things that makes vehicles set up as FFV's unique from the normal gasoline-burner, and the FFV ECUs can better adapt the engine to the different burn characteristics of various blends.)

Edited April 20, 2006 by ptschett

[NickF1011]

The reference to methanol in owners manuals is basically just a legal way for automakers to cover their butts when people run RACE FUEL in their cars and then complain when the emissions and/or fuel delivery systems take a dump. Methanol will destroy catalytic converters in no time flat. Haven't heard much about any problems with Ethanol, except in the aforementioned instances of rubber corrosion, but as was already stated, that's only in high concentrations. A 10% Ethanol blend should have no ill-effects.

[kepfordj]

10% Ethanol has been used in the midwest instead of MTBE for a LONG time... I'd say at least 5 years if not more.

 

It's been around here since 1980, so ya it's been around the mid-west for a while now. Cars have been using Ethanol resistant rubber and fuel system parts since the mid-80's. It will not harm your car.

[cheri/ck]

Winter blends of both methanol and ethanol have been around high altitude areas for a very long time now. I don't think there is any concern for a modern-day Ford engine. On the other hand, ethanol really does reduce miles per gallon depending on the actual mix. And in older vehicles at high altitude, it can be a real problem in terms of vapor lock conditions.

 

I surely would not worry about ethanol blends at least up to 15% affecting a modern day Ford engine. On the otherhand, there have been lots of people saying the speculators are in charge of the oil market and the pricing of oil. Maybe they have a point. I think the current pricing we are seeing now has a lot to do with the really good oil that was easily refined into high grade gasoline being hard to find any more. I do not see the price of gasoline ever returning to levels seven years ago irregardless of how much oil OPEC puts into the market. Saudi Arabia just said last week that they can no longer do anything about the price of oil.

 

Right now our biggest problem is the same problem we have had for a long time now - barely enough gasoline refining facilities in this country. Any little disruption is a major problem and I think the biggest problem now is that these refiners are not only doing the change-over from mtbe to ethanol (in specific markets), but also doing their usual spring maintenance and plant shut-downs to accomplish the maintenance.

 

Get used to it. All it would take is a major supply disruption or another bad hurricane season for us to be paying $4 at the pump. What Ford needs to do is keep pushing as hard as they can to bring us the best in class fuel-efficient vehicles.

[mustang6172]

10% ethanol is perfectly safe to use in a modern engine. You're not going to have any problems with anything shy of 20% ethanol.

[Ron W.]

10% ethanol is perfectly safe to use in a modern engine. You're not going to have any problems with anything shy of 20% ethanol.

 

Don't count on it, we had a Lincoln come into the shop that ran like crap. The tech tested the fuel and found it was 18% ethanol (alcohol). Told the owner to quit using premium and don't use any alcohol additives, it worked.

[Btravelen]

Me thinks BS on this one. Ethanol has been bad mouthed by Big Oil since inception and folks were told it would eat up their seals and hoses and cause warts on their noses. They resisted using it as an oxygenator cause they could use MTBE, which they produced, and retain profits. A local Marathon station continued, until recently when MTBE was outlawed, to advertise ALCOHOL FREE GAS on their marquee.

[Scot T.]

10% ethanol blends have been used in Minnesota for years. I've had no problems with it.