Theology

[Versa-Tech]

jesus fu&king allah buddah loving flying spaghetti monster christ this topic is still going? why dont we start a topic called 'nuke gay whales for christ'?

 

just a thought, i thought it was a neat sign on my neighbors garage door.

Because we're not as disrespectful or immature as you are...

[Versa-Tech]

I do not believe anything, especially something that I can't see, that they are pushing on children. It should be against the law. At least they are allowed to give up believing in Santa Claus. This Godzilla Jesus Claus never ends. This hocus pocus is just for primitive savages, not modern man. You are the one who blindly believes in fairy tales. Are you going to teach me something? I don't think so.

Teach you something? Your ignorance makes that an impossibility. Do you realize how utterly retarded you just made yourself look? The layers of irony in your statements are textbook. I could care less if you believe in god or not. Why do you care so much what I believe? Keep your terribly uninformed opinions to yourself. This is intelligent conversation, obviously you do not belong here.

[BlackHorse]

Athiests showing up and making insulting comments to believers in this thread is like someone showing up to an AA meeting and yelling at everyone there because they gave up drinking.

 

I wonder of if the Christians show up on the athiest forums and cuss them out? lol.

[RangerM]

I do not believe anything, especially something that I can't see, that they are pushing on children. It should be against the law. At least they are allowed to give up believing in Santa Claus. This Godzilla Jesus Claus never ends. This hocus pocus is just for primitive savages, not modern man. You are the one who blindly believes in fairy tales. Are you going to teach me something? I don't think so.

 

The tone expressed in your post is indicative of one of two things: phobia or hostility.

 

I'll assume you would deny the phobia, so let's focus on the hostility side. When a person is hostile toward something, it generally results from a perception of having been wronged by it, or a deep-seeded resentment toward it.

 

Either way, it is illogical. A logical atheist would not bother posting such pablum, because he would perceive it as a waste of time. Also, his anti-evangelism would actually serve the opposite role that he believes it does. If I choose to live by a certain set of moral standards that puts me at an evolutionary disadvantage to an enlightened person (such as yourself). What advantage is it to the logical atheist to convert me?

 

A logical atheist would perceive my belief in God as mere job security. After all, since I am stuck in the Dark Ages, you should have no trouble competing with me in the job market. My deference to a moral code frees you to take advantage of me, since without God or some other higher authority (according to a survival of the fittest mentality) there are no moral codes other than what we make. The most logical way of living to an atheist would be freedom to choose. (read: "if it feels good, do it")

 

By being hostile toward theism, if you really are an atheist, you are acting illogically. A truly logical atheist would be indifferent.

Edited December 4, 2008 by RangerM

[NickF1011]

I wonder of if the Christians show up on the athiest forums and cuss them out? lol.

 

Yes. They do. In droves. "We must save the Godless sinners!!" :rolleyes:

[Versa-Tech]

The tone expressed in your post is indicative of one of two things: phobia or hostility.

 

I'll assume you would deny the phobia, so let's focus on the hostility side. When a person is hostile toward something, it generally results from a perception of having been wronged by it, or a deep-seeded resentment toward it.

 

Either way, it is illogical. A logical atheist would not bother posting such pablum, because he would perceive it as a waste of time. Also, his anti-evangelism would actually serve the opposite role that he believes it does. If I choose to live by a certain set of moral standards that puts me at an evolutionary disadvantage to an enlightened person (such as yourself). What advantage is it to the logical atheist to convert me?

 

A logical atheist would perceive my belief in God as mere job security. After all, since I am stuck in the Dark Ages, you should have no trouble competing with me in the job market. My deference to a moral code frees you to take advantage of me, since without God or some other higher authority (according to a survival of the fittest mentality) there are no moral codes other than what we make. The most logical way of living to an atheist would be freedom to choose. (read: "if it feels good, do it")

 

By being hostile toward theism, if you really are an atheist, you are acting illogically. A truly logical atheist would be indifferent.

I agree with you here. You don't have to be a psychologist to read this guy. He is afraid to learn about theism and uses ignorance and outlandish comparisons as a defense mechanism. You don't see me (or you) comparing Atheism to Nazism. Why? Because we're not insecure in our beliefs. Obviously he is.

[Versa-Tech]

Yes. They do. In droves. "We must save the Godless sinners!!" :rolleyes:

Word. Holy Rollers drive me nuckin' Futz

 

The sad thing is that I agree with half of the things they say, just not their fascist way of forcing these beliefs on people who obviously are not looking to be fingers "saved".

[Trimdingman]

There is a well balanced and well thought out plan. Make religion illegal. Cause so many peoples lives are ruined by morals and ethics and kindness let alone God. Why the world is just teaming with the horrible pains of religion.

 

I forget that like 90% of all murders, tortures and other crimes, and immoral behavior and unending ethical failures are NOT due to those that hate religion let alone hate a Christian God like Stalin and Pol Pot did. But are caused by people doing their best to follow world wide accepted norms of morals and ethics that come from Christianity.

 

One thing is very clear. You hate God so much you might even believe in Him more than I do!

 

Less than 100 years ago it was illegal to teach evolution in school and the bible was used up till the 60's. Man those people were such savagbes and their kids were just purveyors of destruction and evil!

 

No one is going to teach you anything. That is abundantly clear.

 

 

I didn't say to make religion illegal. People should be free to have rituals. What I am saying is that children should be protected. The reason that religious people are so screwed up is because they were brainwashed as children. Native Americans had religions even before Christianity, and these religions were no more stupid. People create religions to try to make sense of what they do not understand. Once they do start to understand, the religion becomes obsolete; but because it is so ingrained into their psycies, they can't give it up.

 

I am capable of teaching myself. I can read. I can listen. I can see. Most importantly, I can reason. If you are hidebound by some religion, they do your reasoning.

Edited December 6, 2008 by Trimdingman

[J-150]

By being hostile toward theism, if you really are an atheist, you are acting illogically. A truly logical atheist would be indifferent.

 

 

there are logical athiests as there are logical theists

[Trimdingman]

I agree with you here. You don't have to be a psychologist to read this guy. He is afraid to learn about theism and uses ignorance and outlandish comparisons as a defense mechanism. You don't see me (or you) comparing Atheism to Nazism. Why? Because we're not insecure in our beliefs. Obviously he is.

 

I don't have any beliefs, so how can I be insecure in them. I think. I think all the time. Believing in something means that no matter how much evidence is presented to you, you will not be swayed from your beliefs. I have conclusions. They are based on logical observations. They can be changed if observations warrant. Religion is different. If you believe something, and it is wrong, all future discoveries are meaningless to you if they violate these strict laws that you are tied to. For me, nothing is set in stone. I think that this gives me a broader scope of understanding and learning potential than someone whose leash ends with a violation of one of his religion's rules.

 

As for Naziism, that is a kind of religion, as is Athiesm. Athiests believe that there is no God. I do not have that set in stone. I do not know if there is a God or not. Religions claim to know God and what he is like. I think they are bragging too much. They pretend to be so knowledgeable to extort and brainwash people. Totalitarian governments such as Communist, Nazi, and Fascist use these same tactics, so they are religions. They mostly ban other religions because people cannot have contrary beliefs. The Dictator is God, not some other God.

Edited December 6, 2008 by Trimdingman

[Versa-Tech]

I don't have any beliefs, so how can I be insecure in them. I think. I think all the time. Believing in something means that no matter how much evidence is presented to you, you will not be swayed from your beliefs. I have conclusions. They are based on logical observations. They can be changed if observations warrant. Religion is different. If you believe something, and it is wrong, all future discoveries are meaningless to you if they violate these strict laws that you are tied to. For me, nothing is set in stone. I think that this gives me a broader scope of understanding and learning potential than someone whose leash ends with a violation of one of his religion's rules.

 

As for Naziism, that is a kind of religion, as is Athiesm. Athiests believe that there is no God. I do not have that set in stone. I do not know if there is a God or not. Religions claim to know God and what he is like. I think they are bragging too much. They pretend to be so knowledgeable to extort and brainwash people. Totalitarian governments such as Communist, Nazi, and Fascist use these same tactics, so they are religions. They mostly ban other religions because people cannot have contrary beliefs. The Dictator is God, not some other God.

Belief is not blind, faith is. Beliefs are based on one's analysis of facts and evidence. I happen to be one of those that were "brainwashed" as a child into believing in the Bible and such. I didn't have any problem changing my views.

[Dale143]

A University professor at a well known institution of higher learning challenged his students with this question. "Did God create everything that exists?"

A student bravely replied, "Yes he did!"

"God created everything?" The professor asked.

"Yes sir, he certainly did," the student replied.

The professor answered, "If God created everything; then God created evil. And, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then we can assume God is evil."

The student became quiet and did not answer the professor's hypothetical definition. The professor, quite pleased with himself, boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth.

Another student raised his hand and said, "May I ask you a question, professor?"

"Of course", replied the professor.

The student stood up and asked, "Professor, does cold exist?"

"What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?"

The other students snickered at the young man's question.

The young man replied, "In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-460 F) is the total absence of heat; and all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have no heat."

The student continued, "Professor, does darkness exist?"

The professor responded, "Of course it does."

The student replied, "Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact, we can use Newton's prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color.

You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn't this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present."

Finally the young man asked the professor, "Sir, does evil exist?"

Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course, as I have already said. We see it everyday. It is in the daily examples of man's Inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist, sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat, or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

The professor sat down.

The young man's name - Albert Einstein

[Versa-Tech]

A University professor at a well known institution of higher learning challenged his students with this question. "Did God create everything that exists?"

A student bravely replied, "Yes he did!"

"God created everything?" The professor asked.

"Yes sir, he certainly did," the student replied.

The professor answered, "If God created everything; then God created evil. And, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then we can assume God is evil."

The student became quiet and did not answer the professor's hypothetical definition. The professor, quite pleased with himself, boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth.

Another student raised his hand and said, "May I ask you a question, professor?"

"Of course", replied the professor.

The student stood up and asked, "Professor, does cold exist?"

"What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?"

The other students snickered at the young man's question.

The young man replied, "In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-460 F) is the total absence of heat; and all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have no heat."

The student continued, "Professor, does darkness exist?"

The professor responded, "Of course it does."

The student replied, "Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact, we can use Newton's prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color.

You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn't this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present."

Finally the young man asked the professor, "Sir, does evil exist?"

Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course, as I have already said. We see it everyday. It is in the daily examples of man's Inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist, sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat, or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

The professor sat down.

The young man's name - Albert Einstein

[NickF1011]

A University professor at a well known institution of higher learning challenged his students with this question. "Did God create everything that exists?"

A student bravely replied, "Yes he did!"

"God created everything?" The professor asked.

"Yes sir, he certainly did," the student replied.

The professor answered, "If God created everything; then God created evil. And, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then we can assume God is evil."

The student became quiet and did not answer the professor's hypothetical definition. The professor, quite pleased with himself, boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth.

Another student raised his hand and said, "May I ask you a question, professor?"

"Of course", replied the professor.

The student stood up and asked, "Professor, does cold exist?"

"What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?"

The other students snickered at the young man's question.

The young man replied, "In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-460 F) is the total absence of heat; and all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have no heat."

The student continued, "Professor, does darkness exist?"

The professor responded, "Of course it does."

The student replied, "Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact, we can use Newton's prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color.

You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn't this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present."

Finally the young man asked the professor, "Sir, does evil exist?"

Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course, as I have already said. We see it everyday. It is in the daily examples of man's Inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist, sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat, or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

The professor sat down.

The young man's name - Albert Einstein

 

I love stories like this. Who the heck knew Einstein would be famous enough as a young man to make a transcript of this conversation? Sure, it's thought provoking, but I think it is laughable to attribute this to Einstein himself in some effort to make it seem more supportable. :rolleyes:

[macattak1]

I love stories like this. Who the heck knew Einstein would be famous enough as a young man to make a transcript of this conversation? Sure, it's thought provoking, but I think it is laughable to attribute this to Einstein himself in some effort to make it seem more supportable. :rolleyes:

 

Actually, it was me. I said that. But I was trying to be humble so I asked that he quote someone else.

 

Peace and Blessings

[Trimdingman]

That is a great story. This is how religion operates. The cold and dark analogies are correct. The evil analogy is stuck in once the listener has been trained. Religion is not the source of morality. Religion uses morality to induct followers. Morality is natural. Humans, like most animals have a natural instinct to protect and not harm their own species. That is part of natural selection. That is how we continue and don't die off. When we become too crowded, we temporarily lose this instinct and become contemptuous of each other, and fight for our territory. Overcrowding depletes the food supply and facilitates the spread of disease. Sometimes we have to kill each other for the greater good of the species. This is not evil.

Edited December 7, 2008 by Trimdingman

[Dale143]

I love stories like this. Who the heck knew Einstein would be famous enough as a young man to make a transcript of this conversation? Sure, it's thought provoking, but I think it is laughable to attribute this to Einstein himself in some effort to make it seem more supportable. :rolleyes:

“The more that astronomers learn about the origin and development of the universe, the more evidence they accumulate for the God of the Bible. Ironically, those who fought hardest against God as the explanation for the cosmos often were the ones whose work provided the most powerful new evidence for Him. Today, with the measuring of the creation has come the scientific equipment to make a positive identification of the Creator. Though not many who write about these new measurements acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, they typically confess that the only explanation for the universe we observe is the action of an entity beyond the space-time continuum of the universe who/that is capable of design and of carrying out that design. All they typically lack is the theological knowledge or the courage to recognize that in their confession they have testified of none other than the God of the Bible.

Einstein's theory of general relativity. Subtracting one set of his famous field equations from the other yielded the surprising result that everything in the universe is simultaneously expanding and decelerating. The only physical phenomenon satisfying simultaneous expansion and deceleration is an explosion. But, if the universe is the aftermath of an explosion, then sometime in the past it must have had a beginning. If it had a beginning, then there must be a Beginner

Einstein's own world view initially kept him from adopting such a conclusion. Rather he proposed a new force of physics that would perfectly cancel out the deceleration and expansion induced by gravity. However, Edwin Hubble soon proved that the galaxies indeed were expanding away from one another in the manner predicted by Einstein's original formulation of general relativity. Confronted with this, Einstein gave grudging acceptance to "the necessity for a beginning,"1 and to "the presence of a superior reasoning power. “

[NickF1011]

“The more that astronomers learn about the origin and development of the universe, the more evidence they accumulate for the God of the Bible. Ironically, those who fought hardest against God as the explanation for the cosmos often were the ones whose work provided the most powerful new evidence for Him. Today, with the measuring of the creation has come the scientific equipment to make a positive identification of the Creator. Though not many who write about these new measurements acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, they typically confess that the only explanation for the universe we observe is the action of an entity beyond the space-time continuum of the universe who/that is capable of design and of carrying out that design. All they typically lack is the theological knowledge or the courage to recognize that in their confession they have testified of none other than the God of the Bible.

Einstein's theory of general relativity. Subtracting one set of his famous field equations from the other yielded the surprising result that everything in the universe is simultaneously expanding and decelerating. The only physical phenomenon satisfying simultaneous expansion and deceleration is an explosion. But, if the universe is the aftermath of an explosion, then sometime in the past it must have had a beginning. If it had a beginning, then there must be a Beginner

Einstein's own world view initially kept him from adopting such a conclusion. Rather he proposed a new force of physics that would perfectly cancel out the deceleration and expansion induced by gravity. However, Edwin Hubble soon proved that the galaxies indeed were expanding away from one another in the manner predicted by Einstein's original formulation of general relativity. Confronted with this, Einstein gave grudging acceptance to "the necessity for a beginning,"1 and to "the presence of a superior reasoning power. “

 

Goes to show you, even Einstein didn't know everything. What exactly does all of this rambling prove again? Nothing at all.

[Dale143]

People say that ignorance is bliss; some argue that what you don't know can't hurt you… but is this really the case? What happens when you do find out the truth, does the bliss remain, or does it melt away into a vague memory to be replaced by something quite the opposite?

How long can u appreciate living in a state of sheer bliss? Can you really appreciate sheer bliss if you've never experienced anything that contrasts? Black doesn't look so dark, until you hold it next to something white, or yellow, or red.

To truly grow, we need to experience the contrast of black to white, rather than just seeing each hue on its own, so as to be able to appreciate the dramatic difference you only get when you have both to compare.

To acquire true happiness, we need to be open to new things, and not close our mind and clutch onto ignorance. We need to step outside our comfort zones, abandon oblivion, as this is the only way we can open our minds, and give ourselves opportunities to find real and fulfilling bliss.

The best way to tackle differences of opinion is to hear one another out and agree to disagree.But never let your opponents view go in one ear and out the other. How blessed is the man who finds wisdom, And the man who gains understanding.

[RangerM]

I concluded long ago that attacking a believer is a substitute for fear of death. A non-believer has nothing to look forward to, everything to dread, and needs to attack others to feel better about himself.

 

He is truly alone, and feels it.

 

Of course, the non-believer would say the same thing about me (that I fear death and believe as a defense mechanism), however I don't fear death, because I know I don't have to. Some would suggest that this is an invitation for death, but this is also fallacious. A believer accepts that he/she has a place in this life, and won't truly understand what it is until it's over.

[mettech]

I believe:

 

Horton Hears a Who

 

:shades:

[RangerM]

I believe:

 

Horton Hears a Who

 

:shades:

 

But the real question is:

 

Do you hear it, too?

[Versa-Tech]

That is a great story. This is how religion operates. The cold and dark analogies are correct. The evil analogy is stuck in once the listener has been trained. Religion is not the source of morality. Religion uses morality to induct followers. Morality is natural. Humans, like most animals have a natural instinct to protect and not harm their own species. That is part of natural selection. That is how we continue and don't die off. When we become too crowded, we temporarily lose this instinct and become contemptuous of each other, and fight for our territory. Overcrowding depletes the food supply and facilitates the spread of disease. Sometimes we have to kill each other for the greater good of the species. This is not evil.

This is a great example of how atheism operates. Acknowledge anything and everything in an argument except the point retaining to God. Then insult anyone who finds validity in the point by calling them stupid or easily influenced ("once the listener has been trained".) Then use unproven theories and here-say to provide a alternate theory. You say that religion is not the source of morality. You have a valid point. However, God is quite literally the source of good. Good by original definition means "of God" or "in accordance with the will of God".

 

Regardless of your beliefs, "Good and Evil" are the accepted moral classifications. You can't have good without God. This is not religious at all, just language.

[Donaldo]

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist, sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat, or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

The professor sat down.

The young man's name - Albert Einstein

 

This is an interesting story, as it attempts to introduce the concept of non-dualistic thinking, where there is a lack of independent/inherent existence. With the lack of existence or non-existence, we experience and observe only a series of changes or manifestations. For example, a car is made up of many non-car parts, i.e. steel, rubber, plastic, glass, etc. Our bodies are made of various organic compounds that are found elsewhere in nature.

People had thought about this kind of stuff long before Einstein or even Christ. It transcends labels such as atheist or theist.

[NickF1011]

I concluded long ago that attacking a believer is a substitute for fear of death. A non-believer has nothing to look forward to, everything to dread, and needs to attack others to feel better about himself.

 

He is truly alone, and feels it.

 

Of course, the non-believer would say the same thing about me (that I fear death and believe as a defense mechanism), however I don't fear death, because I know I don't have to. Some would suggest that this is an invitation for death, but this is also fallacious. A believer accepts that he/she has a place in this life, and won't truly understand what it is until it's over.

 

I don't fear death. I fear stupidity.