Theology

[Edstock]

[Versa-Tech]

[suv_guy_19]

Actually, its somewhere between 200 000 and 400 000 depending on who you ask of course.

[Trimdingman]

It's a boondoggle courtesy of the "We Need a Bigger Hammer" school of physics.

 

Along with String Theory, the search for the non-existant "graviton" completes the idiocy. However, it gives the gang something to do besides asking "Would you like fries with that?"

 

String theory works. You can think of it as an analogy. We have no way of knowing what these particle/waves "look" like. The graviton has to exist. The gravitational field exists, so it has to be composed of something. String theory was never disproved, just improved upon so that it fit into higher dimensions, and it does fit. They have mathematically shown how strings "sew up" tears in the multi-demensional super-universe.

Edited November 22, 2008 by Trimdingman

[Edstock]

String theory works.

 

That really is funny. String theory works? How? What can you do with it, besides grub for grant money in an incomprehensible fashion? It's the 21st century equivalent to arguing over how many angels can dance on a pin. Branes produced by lame-brains with PhD's.

 

The graviton has to exist? For you, maybe.

 

First, a simple question. What is gravity?

 

Gravity appears to be the intrinsic "built-in" attraction of matter for other matter. Nobody knows why. Again, lots of theories, but nobody KNOWS. Matter exists, and along with it this attraction.

 

Gravity appears to follow what is known as the inverse-square, 2x the distance, 1/4 the attraction. As formulated by Newton, it works well, allowing us to sling-shot probes around the solar system.

 

Now, the question is, does this apply across the universe? Does some lump 14 billion light-years away have an attraction to the Earth (and vice-versa)? Or does the attraction fade to zero, or to some kind of minimal non-zero value?

 

Nobody knows. Lots of theories, but . . . .

 

Now, for gravity waves. First, what's a wave? Regardless of a transmission medium, or not, a wave is a change from a low amplitude to a high amplitude and back to low again (or high to low to high). Otherwise, you won't see it as a wave.

 

So how would you get gravity waves? For the Earth, for example, to experience a gravity wave from, say, Alpha Centauri, which already has a gravitic attraction on the Earth as it is, right now, you would have to annihilate Alpha Centauri's mass (which creates the gravitic attraction), then re-create Alpha Centauri's mass to re-establish the gravitic attraction, to get a "peak-trough-peak" which is what a wave is. Kinda unlikely.

Edited November 22, 2008 by Edstock

[Trimdingman]

Gravity is a field. Heavenly bodies warp this field proportional to their mass. This creates orbitals for approaching smaller bodies, like a marble circling a bowling ball on a waterbed, only one dimension higher. This field is composed of gravitons. Gravity is the weakest force.

Edited November 23, 2008 by Trimdingman

[Edstock]

This field is composed of gravitons.

Maybe. Maybe not. Nobody knows. The answer probably will be found in the quantum "granularity" of the universe.

[Versa-Tech]

String theory works. You can think of it as an analogy. We have no way of knowing what these particle/waves "look" like. The graviton has to exist. The gravitational field exists, so it has to be composed of something. String theory was never disproved, just improved upon so that it fit into higher dimensions, and it does fit. They have mathematically shown how strings "sew up" tears in the multi-demensional super-universe.

String theory only works if you assume that many other theories [which were written after the string theory] are true. There is no way to prove these theories, because they depend on principles of string theory. Since string theory can only be proven by assuming it's dependent theories, it is scientifically impossible to prove either.

 

Saying that the graviton has to exist is really just saying that man has to have an explanation for all phenomena There is absolutely no proof behind it, only a self destructive pride in a mistaken all-knowingness.

[Trimdingman]

String theory only works if you assume that many other theories [which were written after the string theory] are true. There is no way to prove these theories, because they depend on principles of string theory. Since string theory can only be proven by assuming it's dependent theories, it is scientifically impossible to prove either.

 

Saying that the graviton has to exist is really just saying that man has to have an explanation for all phenomena There is absolutely no proof behind it, only a self destructive pride in a mistaken all-knowingness.

 

 

There is just as much effort in the scientific community to disprove as to prove. Nothing can be proven 100%. That is why I do not "believe" in anything. I am interested in new theories. If I were to see some proof of the existence of God, I would be very interested. How much effort does the religious community make to test Biblical statements? None. To them, it is "blasphemy" to even consider challenging the Bible. That is why it doesn't hold any water with me.

Edited November 24, 2008 by Trimdingman

[Edstock]

That is why I do not "believe" in anything.

You seem to believe in gravitons. "This field is composed of gravitons."

[macattak1]

There is just as much effort in the scientific community to disprove as to prove. Nothing can be proven 100%. That is why I do not "believe" in anything. I am interested in new theories. If I were to see some proof of the existence of God, I would be very interested. How much effort does the religious community make to test Biblical statements? None. To them, it is "blasphemy" to even consider challenging the Bible. That is why it doesn't hold any water with me.

 

Biblical statements are tested all the time. One reads the scripture. Thinks they know something. Gets into a discussion on the same topic with others and hears all sorts of wild ideas. They go home and do some more reading and searching and come to find out that what they thought they new was correct, some what off, or hugely off.

 

So I would say that the religious community does quite a bit of thinking and reading and searching on the topic. Perhaps that is not the testing you want. However, just as scientists do not use cartoons to test scientific theory neither do Christians use history or any other tool other than the Word to test the scripture.

 

Proof of science is all around us every day. Just as is proof of God.

 

Peace and Blessings

[Trimdingman]

You seem to believe in gravitons. "This field is composed of gravitons."

 

If a gravitational field exists, then it is made up of gravitons. If it doesn't exist, then it is not. I don't know whether it exists or not, just like I don't know whether I exist or not. To believe means that no proof will convince you that what you believe is wrong. I can give proof all I want that any particular religion is wrong; it will not sink in to the believer. There are dinosaur fossils millions of years old, but the true Christian can look at them and still say that they do not exist because according to the Bible, the earth can't be more than 5000 or so years old. They can't accept the possibility that these stories were just made up by ordinary people.

[macattak1]

If a gravitational field exists, then it is made up of gravitons. If it doesn't exist, then it is not. I don't know whether it exists or not, just like I don't know whether I exist or not. To believe means that no proof will convince you that what you believe is wrong. I can give proof all I want that any particular religion is wrong; it will not sink in to the believer. There are dinosaur fossils millions of years old, but the true Christian can look at them and still say that they do not exist because according to the Bible, the earth can't be more than 5000 or so years old. They can't accept the possibility that these stories were just made up by ordinary people.

 

Some of us Christians Do Accept:

That dating fossils is very imprecise past 50k years?

That God who brought into existence a fully realized Adam around some adult age also brought into existence a world that was only a few days old before Adam came into existence, but had the properties of a world some could date to 4.6 billion years or what ever age one try's to calculate it to.

 

Some of us Christian Do Not Accept:

That T-Rex was from 60 to 70 mill years ago per evolution and old earth theories, but soft tissue of one was found in the mid west that somehow lasted that 60 to 70 mill years until it was found just a few years ago? Soft tissue from 60+ million years ago???

 

It is kind of funny though. One side says the other is wrong and uses science, theories, and such to try and prove it and the other side does much of the same to prove the opposite.

 

Peace and Blessings

[efy]

I can tell you I know for a fact God is real. On Monday, 11/24/08, I flipped my truck 5 times then hit a tree. Of course, the truck is totaled. Right before it happened, I said a prayer, asking God to protect me and my family because it was raining and the roads were very slick. I was going over a hill and I guess I hit a slick spot in the road (this is a dangerous road, anyway) and my rear wheels started spinning. When they did, the rear end started to fish tail and the truck went over into the other lane. I was turning into the skid and trying to keep from hitting the oncoming car in the other lane. I turned the wheel to the right to avoid hitting that car. When I did, the truck slid into the ditch. (I was only going about 35 mph, by the way.) It all happened so fast, I didn't know what was happening. I remember seeing dirt flying everywhere and the truck starting to turn over. I didn't realize what was happening. I remember seeing the windshield shatter, then everything goes blank. I remember just before the truck stopped, I screamed, "God, help me." Then the truck stopped. I had on my seatbelt. The tree is what stopped me. There was a guy and a girl in an Explorer at the same spot that had wrecked just a few minutes before I did; they were waiting on the police to get there. In total, there were 3 accidents at that same spot that day. I escaped with only scrapes and bruises and a mild concussion. I realize that had God not been protecting me, my funeral would have been yesterday. I can never thank Him enough. He saved my life.

[Trimdingman]

Some of us Christians Do Accept:

That dating fossils is very imprecise past 50k years?

That God who brought into existence a fully realized Adam around some adult age also brought into existence a world that was only a few days old before Adam came into existence, but had the properties of a world some could date to 4.6 billion years or what ever age one try's to calculate it to.

 

Some of us Christian Do Not Accept:

That T-Rex was from 60 to 70 mill years ago per evolution and old earth theories, but soft tissue of one was found in the mid west that somehow lasted that 60 to 70 mill years until it was found just a few years ago? Soft tissue from 60+ million years ago???

 

It is kind of funny though. One side says the other is wrong and uses science, theories, and such to try and prove it and the other side does much of the same to prove the opposite.

 

Peace and Blessings

 

 

This is grasping at straws. You are trying to prove that it is not impossible for the Bible to be right. Anything is possible. I can make up any scenario and it is possible, but I would not blindly believe it.

[Trimdingman]

I can tell you I know for a fact God is real. On Monday, 11/24/08, I flipped my truck 5 times then hit a tree. Of course, the truck is totaled. Right before it happened, I said a prayer, asking God to protect me and my family because it was raining and the roads were very slick. I was going over a hill and I guess I hit a slick spot in the road (this is a dangerous road, anyway) and my rear wheels started spinning. When they did, the rear end started to fish tail and the truck went over into the other lane. I was turning into the skid and trying to keep from hitting the oncoming car in the other lane. I turned the wheel to the right to avoid hitting that car. When I did, the truck slid into the ditch. (I was only going about 35 mph, by the way.) It all happened so fast, I didn't know what was happening. I remember seeing dirt flying everywhere and the truck starting to turn over. I didn't realize what was happening. I remember seeing the windshield shatter, then everything goes blank. I remember just before the truck stopped, I screamed, "God, help me." Then the truck stopped. I had on my seatbelt. The tree is what stopped me. There was a guy and a girl in an Explorer at the same spot that had wrecked just a few minutes before I did; they were waiting on the police to get there. In total, there were 3 accidents at that same spot that day. I escaped with only scrapes and bruises and a mild concussion. I realize that had God not been protecting me, my funeral would have been yesterday. I can never thank Him enough. He saved my life.

 

 

Which god was it that saved you? Religions kidnap these gods for their own ends.

[macattak1]

This is grasping at straws. You are trying to prove that it is not impossible for the Bible to be right. Anything is possible. I can make up any scenario and it is possible, but I would not blindly believe it.

 

 

So anything is possible? Perhaps tomorrow I will play kick ball with the moon and walk to the center of the earth? Or perhaps your wrong about God?

 

But we know not anything is possible. Like it is not possible to kill untold thousands just because you fly two planes into the World Trade Center towers. Or how row upon row of houses don't just explode for no reason. Or how traffic can safely move every day with little to no loss of life. We do not live in a world we control. But it is a controlled world else chaos would reign and we would have killed ourselves off at the first sign of life.

 

I wonder just how many times evolution had to make both a male and a female at the same time and have them both be in the same location at the same time so that they could successfully mate and have off spring that would survive...

 

That is the blessing of Christianity. Its all righteous in its development, production, and end result. Nothing else like it in the world because all else is of man.

 

I wonder just how many atheists there really are in a fox hole or a death bed or worse?

 

Peace and Blessings

[macattak1]

I can tell you I know for a fact God is real. On Monday, 11/24/08, I flipped my truck 5 times then hit a tree. Of course, the truck is totaled. Right before it happened, I said a prayer, asking God to protect me and my family because it was raining and the roads were very slick. I was going over a hill and I guess I hit a slick spot in the road (this is a dangerous road, anyway) and my rear wheels started spinning. When they did, the rear end started to fish tail and the truck went over into the other lane. I was turning into the skid and trying to keep from hitting the oncoming car in the other lane. I turned the wheel to the right to avoid hitting that car. When I did, the truck slid into the ditch. (I was only going about 35 mph, by the way.) It all happened so fast, I didn't know what was happening. I remember seeing dirt flying everywhere and the truck starting to turn over. I didn't realize what was happening. I remember seeing the windshield shatter, then everything goes blank. I remember just before the truck stopped, I screamed, "God, help me." Then the truck stopped. I had on my seatbelt. The tree is what stopped me. There was a guy and a girl in an Explorer at the same spot that had wrecked just a few minutes before I did; they were waiting on the police to get there. In total, there were 3 accidents at that same spot that day. I escaped with only scrapes and bruises and a mild concussion. I realize that had God not been protecting me, my funeral would have been yesterday. I can never thank Him enough. He saved my life.

 

 

What a great holiday you have had already this year!

 

Peace and Blessings

[suv_guy_19]

Why do so many people have trouble accepting that science can be right, God can exist, and that the Bible was written by men.

[Trimdingman]

So anything is possible? Perhaps tomorrow I will play kick ball with the moon and walk to the center of the earth? Or perhaps your wrong about God?

 

But we know not anything is possible. Like it is not possible to kill untold thousands just because you fly two planes into the World Trade Center towers. Or how row upon row of houses don't just explode for no reason. Or how traffic can safely move every day with little to no loss of life. We do not live in a world we control. But it is a controlled world else chaos would reign and we would have killed ourselves off at the first sign of life.

 

I wonder just how many times evolution had to make both a male and a female at the same time and have them both be in the same location at the same time so that they could successfully mate and have off spring that would survive...

 

That is the blessing of Christianity. Its all righteous in its development, production, and end result. Nothing else like it in the world because all else is of man.

 

I wonder just how many atheists there really are in a fox hole or a death bed or worse?

 

Peace and Blessings

 

How does any of that prove that Christianity is correct? One big hurdle for Christianity is the Bible. According to Christianity, the Bible was dictated to it's authors by God. Therefore every word of the Bible has to be true, or else Christianity is false. You have four different accounts of the life of Jesus, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. They are not all exactly the same. Some Christian religions now permit birth control. That means that there was a change. That means that either it was wrong before, or it is wrong now. Maybe there are gods, but that does not give some religion the right to claim them and profit from them. All religions are false. They pretend that they are the source of all morality in order to get people under their control. They use many mind control techniques, like pipe organ music, and grandoise architecture and attire. It is very addictive. It is easy to fall into a state of euphoria at a church service. Once in this hypnotic state, your mind is susceptable to suggestion. Your subconscience is exposed, as your conscious mind is by-passed. This is not healthy. You should filter everything through your conscious mind before allowing it into your subconscious. If your subconscious is distorted, then all of your thought processes are distorted. Logical facts will not compute. You will go around with a glazed look in your eyes and be unaware of the real world.

Edited November 28, 2008 by Trimdingman

[macattak1]

How does any of that prove that Christianity is correct? One big hurdle for Christianity is the Bible. According to Christianity, the Bible was dictated to it's authors by God. Therefore every word of the Bible has to be true, or else Christianity is false. You have four different accounts of the life of Jesus, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. They are not all exactly the same. Some Christian religions now permit birth control. That means that there was a change. That means that either it was wrong before, or it is wrong now. Maybe there are gods, but that does not give some religion the right to claim them and profit from them. All religions are false. They pretend that they are the source of all morality in order to get people under their control. They use many mind control techniques, like pipe organ music, and grandoise architecture and attire. It is very addictive. It is easy to fall into a state of euphoria at a church service. Once in this hypnotic state, your mind is susceptable to suggestion. Your subconscience is exposed, as your conscious mind is by-passed. This is not healthy. You should filter everything through your conscious mind before allowing it into your subconscious. If your subconscious is distorted, then all of your thought processes are distorted. Logical facts will not compute. You will go around with a glazed look in your eyes and be unaware of the real world.

 

I thought that maybe that was going to be an intelligent and logical position of debate but then it quickly degenerated into nothing. But I will try a little.

 

Nothing will prove to you that Christianity is correct other than you be called and you answer the call. Nothing else will do it period.

 

Different accounts of Jesus' life in no way invalidate Jesus. They do not all have to be carbon copies.

 

It is not to difficult to figure out what forms of birth control stand up to scripture.

 

I don't go a brick and mortar church.

 

Scripture causes me to get sleepy but I have never known it to induce glazed looks, hypnotize, or any other ideas you have. Well, I suppose that if you combined scripture with LSD or something.

 

Your very funny. You sound like the type of guy that would be more scarred of 4 Christians walking down a dark alley at night that just got out of a bible study than you would be of 4 kids doing who knows what in that alley at night. Perhaps you would even feel more safe with recent inmate parolees in that dark alleyway than those 4 Christians. That is too bad.

 

I know your all in this for the fun. But you have one confused mind.

 

Peace and Blessings

[macattak1]

Why do so many people have trouble accepting that science can be right, God can exist, and that the Bible was written by men.

 

 

No problems there. I just kind of follow the scientists from long ago that used the scripture as their final authority. Not science to prove or disprove Scripture.

 

Science is right 'all' the time. As in its 'always' sunny in Arizona.

 

Peace and Blessings

[suv_guy_19]

Science is right 'all' the time. As in its 'always' sunny in Arizona.

 

Peace and Blessings

 

I believe in God, very strongly in fact. I do have a problem with religion and I do not take part in it.

 

As for science, I would actually say that it is always right...eventually. That's the beauty of science, its self improving.

 

I have no problem believing in science at the same time as believing in God.

[Mower Man]

From the time a child is born until he is 18, do not expose the child to religon or the bible. On his 18th birthday, give the now adult a bible. Ask him to read the bible. Now ask if he is a believer. You will have more luck getting him to believe in Santa Claus. I believe that more is accomplished when you have faith in yourself.

[suv_guy_19]

There's nothing wrong with having faith in something greater.