pms jones Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Keep on reading about the gm, chrysler merger or just have gm obsorb chrysler. But what if ford was to absorb chrysler would the deal be better with ford.As not realy having rear wheeldrive cars or minivans in their line up plus the hemi engine would be a good thing for ford to use as it own.Plus with the explorer going unibody you can slim down the crap from jeep and keep the good cars . ford main street mercury europe style smail cars chrysler semi lux dodge sports jeep offroad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_fairmont_wagon Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 All I can say about this is that the two lineups have less conflicting and competing items than the lineups between GM and Chrysler. Ford has nothing to compare to Jeep. The chrysler brand can go away, as can the Dodge brand. The products that would be most attractive to Ford would be the minivans, the LX cars, and perhaps the Journey. Assuming their operations would also give them production contracts for Nissan trucks, VW minivans, Mitsubishi trucks, and I believe an engine or two for other makes as well. Ford, however, does not need all the red ink in their books, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofford Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 No, no, no, no. GM + Chrysler is bad enough. Chrysler + Ford? Even worse. Absolutely nothing to gain there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 NO NO NO, you don't buy a company to get products, people keep making the assumption that companies are bought to get their products...it's FAR cheaper to do it yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danup Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 It makes more sense to Ford than to GM, which is like saying it makes more sense to set my neighbor's house on fire than my own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Chrysler brings NOTHING to the table for Ford. Jeep is a nothing. Other than the Wrangler, the other vehcilesin the lineup are dying off with gas prices. And if Ford really wanted a vehicle to compete with the Wrangler, they could have already don so with the Bronco concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 It could well be the deal that sinks GM, they can't close the divisions they have so why take on more? The only reason GM is entertaining the thought is to eliminate a competitor. In this climate, it is devillishly tempting to do that but Ford doesn't want the complexity of it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 I agree, Chrysler brings nothing to the table for Ford. If anything, just more headaches. Better if Chrysler just dissapears and let the 1.5MIL sales die off, since it's less people buying cars this year and even less next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 (edited) I agree, Chrysler brings nothing to the table for Ford. If anything, just more headaches. Better if Chrysler just dissapears and let the 1.5MIL sales die off, since it's less people buying cars this year and even less next year. wont all be a loss. Many Ram buyers will still drive Fords and Chevs before Tundras and Titans. SOme of those sales will come back to Detroit. Except rental car fleets. Hyundai can have those. Edited October 16, 2008 by J-150 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Ford + Chrysler would be good for me. I could transfer to the Toledo North plant and have a 5 minute drive to work! :party2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TStag Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Initially I though that such an idea would be crazy. But maybe it would work for Ford. If Ford let's say got 15 billion dollars for their troubles in exchange for taking on Chrylser and maybe giving Cerebus some shares in Ford then it might work (such a deal is rumoured for GM). Step one in taking on Chrysler would be cut jobs, close factories and move as much R&D as possible into Ford. This would raise cash, Chryslers HQ must be worth a few bob. Step two would be to continue to internationalise Chrysler and their existing products as much as possible. Chrysler is already in Europe but lacks dealers. The simple answer would be to give Chrysler access to the Ford network. This would energise their sales considerably. Step 3 would be to integrate components, model replacement plans etc. Now this would normally take time. But there is a quicker way to deal with this. Chrysler would be killed off in the US but become Lincolns brand name in Europe. Mercury would have all funding cut and simply be a marketing tool for FOE. Dodge and Jeep would then take a few years to integrate. A dealer re-organisation in the USA could then give Volvo more access to more dealers. Of course this plan would work even better if Ford still had Land Rover, because then Jeep and Land Rover could dominate the market for proper 4x4's between them and simply share components. Jaguar could then have simply slotted into all Chrysler dealers as the premium brand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 IMHO, Chrysler is nothing but a pile of problems, and would just distract Ford from its game plan. For what? Ram, Jeep and Chrysler brand names? With the right new product, Ford can grow just as well, maybe even better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVT_MAN Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 (edited) Okay. Ford just sold off JLR, which was bleeding red ink. Now Ford would think that they can stop their bleeding by purchasing a company that is in worse shape financially than itself and brings nothing new or good to the table in terms of products? "Hokay .." I don't "tingk" so. Edited October 16, 2008 by SVT_MAN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Well, its starting to look like this is going to be an ugly deal for Chrysler. This is, basically, Cerebus selling off the pieces of Chrysler. GM will take a few nameplates, and plants......... plus Chryslers $11.3 Billion, and Chryslers portion of the Fed loan, and unload the rest of GMAC to Cerebus. Basically, they would raid Chrysler for their billions, and the loan, and then close them up. If this is allowed to happen, it will be one of the most heinous takeovers/buyouts, in the history of the automobile. Chrysler, as we know it, will not exist within a year. You can bet that any self respecting MOPAR fanatic would NEVER buy any GM product, after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
156n3rd Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 (edited) Chrysler needs to unload it's own wasteful product line and get rid of redundant models. I know this is an old story, but killing Plymouth was like shooting themselves in the foot. That was the brand name that would have provided much needed cars (small, that is) to fit the needs of the buying public. Dodge was always the sportier badge, and Plymouth were the family movers. (like the original Voyager and all those cool Valiants in the old days). When they went with Daimler, well that really mucked up their gene pool and made for some very bad decisions. The company needs real auto people, not money people to make it right again. Remember, we all need this company to keep their employees working and contributing. Even though I drive a PTCruiser, I don't find many other products they make very attractive. I love the Magnum, which is already gone. I admire the Charger a great deal. I test drove a Caliber, but found it to bee a bity tiny behind the wheel, and that is scheduled to be re-done soon. I have no need for trucks, although the Ram is a cool looking beast. (And Ford is still way behind in the HP race.) That's it. Their mid-size cars need to be melted down as they are horribly designed in all areas. And as for Jeep, again, I'm not a truck guy. If I want any kind of crossover to take the place of my PT, there are other models I'd consider including the Kia Rondo which I think looks like a small BMW and has gotten very good reviews in several publications on and off the net. The Nissan Rogue is also very cool. Deep down inside I LOVE the MAZDA3 5-door. .......................blahblahblah Edited October 17, 2008 by 156n3rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 (edited) GM and Chrysler are resorting to traditional Detroit thinking that there's safety in numbers (merging). Ford has moved on from that thinking and will become the North American version of Toyota. If GM buys Chrysler, it will probably sink both of them and Ford will laugh all the way to the bank. Edited October 17, 2008 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 IMHO, Chrysler is nothing but a pile of problems, and would just distract Ford from its game plan. For what? Ram, Jeep and Chrysler brand names? With the right new product, Ford can grow just as well, maybe even better. Ford don't need more problems they just got rid one pile of Jaguar Land Rover crap that cost them $12.7 billion over the years from which they got nothing back in return, who was the manic depressive in charge who was ego-tripping on Ford profits that brought J/LR money pit they should be shot along with T-Stag. Gotta say l am glad Alan Mulally got rid of the worthless junk at such a good price. Gotta agree with you Ed why the hell does Ford want to prop up another bunch of failing losers for two decades, it should concentrate on Ford for a change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 (edited) ....who was the manic depressive in charge who was ego-tripping on Ford profits that brought J/LR money pit they should be shot.... Jelly, The person responsible for the buying spree in the 90's was Jack nASSer.....that is the person that needs to be blamed for the current quagmire Ford is in. From what I understood, he wanted these "boutique" brands with their exotic flair because he just could not be seen in a plain ole Lincoln. What current management of Ford should do is follow Edsel Fords' ideals when he was in charge. Lincoln would challenge that best that Europe (and now Asian companies) had to offer. Mercury would be a step up from Ford, and the Ford brand would be the car that "Joe the Plumber" would drive until he was successful in his quest for his own plumbing business, then moving up the lineup within the Ford Motor Company. Edited October 17, 2008 by twintornados Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 All of Nasser's purchases were fully discussed with and approved by the board of directors. At the time, nearly all of Ford North America's was coming from from two vehicles, F Truck and Explorer. Nasser knew he didn't have much time to broaden Ford's revenue stream and had PAG worked, it would have provided an income stream (and profit) the size of Ford Europe!! The rest is history but Bill Ford had years to disband PAG, why did he wait so long? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Jelly,The person responsible for the buying spree in the 90's was Jack nASSer.....that is the person that needs to be blamed for the current quagmire Ford is in. From what I understood, he wanted these "boutique" brands with their exotic flair because he just could not be seen in a plain ole Lincoln. What current management of Ford should do is follow Edsel Fords' ideals when he was in charge. Lincoln would challenge that best that Europe (and now Asian companies) had to offer. Mercury would be a step up from Ford, and the Ford brand would be the car that "Joe the Plumber" would drive until he was successful in his quest for his own plumbing business, then moving up the lineup within the Ford Motor Company. Your right if Lincoln could challenge and beat the best of Europe in the US, then they could sell them in Europe. It's a shame Ford don't sell Lincolns through their Ford European dealerships like Toyota sell the Lexus over here. Once they got established they could open up their own Lincoln only dealerships in all the big cities around Europe somebody like Jim Farley with is wealth of experience & expertise would be very helpful in setting up a Lincoln operation.. You must like T-Stag you did not finish that sentence off :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F150 Man Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 I was never a big Nasser fan, but in his defense he had some good ideas and direction. At the time he attempted to push us into adjacent businesses that would diversify our earning during lean years. The biggest problem we have at FoMoCo is the resolution to stay the course and let the ideas mature. Nasser was in then out before you could blink (although at the time it seemed longer). Jac also paid top dollar for most of the acquisitions which didn't help, the wheels fell off and the rest is history. It's ironic that our quality is at the highest levels ever and our sales suck. Sometimes the external factors overwhelm all the positive changes you could possibility make to save your ship. All good things begin and end. Maybe it's time to RIP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TStag Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Well, its starting to look like this is going to be an ugly deal for Chrysler. This is, basically, Cerebus selling off the pieces of Chrysler. GM will take a few nameplates, and plants......... plus Chryslers $11.3 Billion, and Chryslers portion of the Fed loan, and unload the rest of GMAC to Cerebus. Basically, they would raid Chrysler for their billions, and the loan, and then close them up. If this is allowed to happen, it will be one of the most heinous takeovers/buyouts, in the history of the automobile. Chrysler, as we know it, will not exist within a year. You can bet that any self respecting MOPAR fanatic would NEVER buy any GM product, after that. If that happens Cerebus's name will be mud. No one will want to be taken over by them. I expect GM to get 11 billion from Chryslers cash reserves plus a further big loan of Chryler's backers. The price will be a commitment to the 3 brands. As for Nasser and PAG. I tend to think he understimated the scale of the task he was taking on. How much did he pay for Jag? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 If that happens Cerebus's name will be mud. No one will want to be taken over by them. I expect GM to get 11 billion from Chryslers cash reserves plus a further big loan of Chryler's backers. The price will be a commitment to the 3 brands. As for Nasser and PAG. I tend to think he understimated the scale of the task he was taking on. How much did he pay for Jag? I believe it was Trotman that secured Jag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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