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The October Surprise


No_Fear

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And this person is still running because? The truth needs to be found now and if indeed he is not a natural born American citizen get him off the damn ticket.

 

Yeah, I'm sure nobody from either party or the media has looked into it before now. :rolleyes:

 

Desperate people make desperate claims.

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Please note the part of that post that is underlined you don't know the truth anymore than I do, but somebody does.

if this in fact was an issue it would have been addressed long ago and obviously utilized as a weapon by McCains campaign advisors.....something potentially this big just doesn't get swept undr the mat like McCains crossdressing......IMO yet another example of speculative, sensationalistic media clap trap....National Enquirer style.....so tired of this type of crap on both sides of the trail.....

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Berg has admitted he is a Clinton supporter. Perhaps he is getting support from other unnamed sources too.

 

 

From FOX in Toledo

 

http://www.myfoxtoledo.com/myfox/pages/New...14.1&sflg=1

 

 

Philip J. Berg, a former University of Toledo School of Law graduate, has filed a lawsuit against Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama. He's claiming the Illinois senator is not a U.S. citizen and therefore ineligible to run for president.

 

If elected, his selection to the presidency would cause a crisis within the U.S. Constitution.

 

"If we can't enforce our constitution, especially a candidate for president, we're in real trouble in this country, more trouble than you really want to believe and it's frightening," said Berg from his offices in Lafayette Hill, Penn., a suburb of Philadelphia.

 

Berg, a former Deputy Attorney General for the State of Pennsylvania, filed the lawsuit in federal court Aug. 21 (Berg vs. Obama, Civil Action No. 08-cv-4083), "seeking a Declaratory Judgment and an Injunction that Obama does not meet the qualifications to be President of the United States."

 

Three qualifications must be met for someone to become president under the Constitution. You must be at least 35 years of age, a resident of the United States for at least 14 years, and a natural-born citizen.

 

Berg believes the 47-year-old senator from Illinois does not meet the last qualification. Although the Obama campaign states he was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, Berg believes Obama was born in Kenya. Further investigation reveals he may still be a citizen of Indonesia.

 

A school registration Berg has obtained lists Obama's name as Barry Soetoro, after his Indonesian stepfather, Lolo Soetoro, and lists his citizenship as Indonesia.

 

Berg said Obama's mother sent him back to the U.S. when he was 10, and one of two things would have happened then. If he went through immigration, he would be a naturalized citizen, not a natural-born citizen.

 

"He today could still be a citizen of Indonesia and could be an illegal alien, which would mean he could not even hold his Senate seat from Illinois," Berg said in a cell phone call from Pennsylvania. "So, it's really important that we all look at his records."

 

Factcheck.org claims it has proof of Obama's U.S. citizenship. Berg has questioned that proof because the Web site is owned by Annenberg.

 

According to the site, the "Annenberg Political Fact Check is a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania. The APPC was established by publisher and philanthropist Walter Annenberg in 1994 to create a community of scholars within the University of Pennsylvania that would address public policy issues at the local, state and federal levels."

 

"That is a group where Obama sat on the board a number of years dispersing funds, so I would think there's a little conflict of interest there."

The proof, Berg said, needs to be in the hands of a judge.

 

"Senator Obama, if I'm wrong, prove me wrong, produce the documentation," he said. "If you have nothing to hide, stop hiding behind legalisms, lets avoid a constitutional crisis in this country."

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seems to me Obamas priorities are focused on more pressing issues than to appease the wishes of ONE individual whom may/ maynot have a grievence....also...the wording, is it correct...."a 14 year resident AND natural born"....should that not read OR?.....funny, all these constant trivial side swipes and attempted distractions have done more harm to MCCains campaign than the person they take square aim at...I admire the American publics unwillingness to put up with dirty smeary politics anymore....that dark age mentality is TOTAL old school....not to mention phobic and paranoid....

Edited by Deanh
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if this in fact was an issue it would have been addressed long ago

 

Dean I'm not saying he isn't an American citizen, but I know it's not that tough to come up with a birth certificate, hell I had to just to get my class A C.D.L.

That would eliminate all of the rumors.

 

Also keep in mind I was born in the "show me state" so that might have something to do with it. :shades:

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Dean I'm not saying he isn't an American citizen, but I know it's not that tough to come up with a birth certificate, hell I had to just to get my class A C.D.L.

That would eliminate all of the rumors.

 

Also keep in mind I was born in the "show me state" so that might have something to do with it. :shades:

understand...but do you think he is going to bring his whole campaign to a screeching halt because of one protaganist dead set on thowing SOME sort of spanner into the works? I doubt it, my guess is he is attempting ( feebly judging by Obamas reaction or lack of ) to fluster Obama and throw obvious doubt on his credibility....just another bout of mud slinging in my book....

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do you think he is going to bring his whole campaign to a screeching halt

 

 

More like 15 minutes on the phone with a charge card in his hand, all it takes is one call to the state you were born in and they will ship you your birth certificate via UPS, over night if you want. He has to be aware of this situation, why would he not take the time to prove himself eligible?

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More like 15 minutes on the phone with a charge card in his hand, all it takes is one call to the state you were born in and they will ship you your birth certificate via UPS, over night if you want. He has to be aware of this situation, why would he not take the time to prove himself eligible?

perhaps he does not veiw it as important enough to even be considered a dis-traction...probably raised his arms and muttered...."let this guy beleive what he wants to beleive, I have more important issues on my plate......"....I know in my lifetime I have been wrongly gauged and accused, the importance of which and whom was responsible garnered my response or lack of.....I just think, like on this site Obama may have hit the "Choose to ignore" button....

Edited by Deanh
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seems to me Obamas priorities are focused on more pressing issues than to appease the wishes of ONE individual whom may/ maynot have a grievence....also...the wording, is it correct...."a 14 year resident AND natural born"....should that not read OR?.....funny, all these constant trivial side swipes and attempted distractions have done more harm to MCCains campaign than the person they take square aim at...I admire the American publics unwillingness to put up with dirty smeary politics anymore....that dark age mentality is TOTAL old school....not to mention phobic and paranoid....

 

 

So you are saying Obama and the DNC are above the LAW and CONSTITUTION? A civil case was filed, Obama petitioned for its dismissal and the judge rejected their petition. So almighty OBAMA can just ignore it so he can spoon feed more garbage into your brains, CHANGE, CHANGE, CHANGE! :hysterical::hysterical:

 

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/co...i.html#section1

U.S. Constitution Article II Section 1

 

No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States.
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mccain and his dipshit running mate will HAVE to come up with something like a GOTCHA to win in november.

 

....because nothing they're offering up is good enough for people who think past the noon time rush limbaugh show.

 

same old, same old is what mccain is offering. 70's economic packages, more trickle down economics, blah, blah blah.

 

obama is popular. get over it. people around my office are already talking about assasinations. it's so sad that in this day and age white businessmen are still so closed minded and racist.

 

the last think i want is another old white man with too much money telling me how i should live my life.

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mccain and his dipshit running mate will HAVE to come up with something like a GOTCHA to win in november.

 

....because nothing they're offering up is good enough for people who think past the noon time rush limbaugh show.

 

same old, same old is what mccain is offering. 70's economic packages, more trickle down economics, blah, blah blah.

 

obama is popular. get over it. people around my office are already talking about assasinations. it's so sad that in this day and age white businessmen are still so closed minded and racist.

 

Obama is popular. But it sure ain't because of his policies. He's just seen as the "cool new kid" on the block, so he's popular. His policies are nothing new. Nothing. More big government. More spending. More debt. More taxes. We've seen this all before.

 

the last think i want is another old white man with too much money telling me how i should live my life.

 

So it's okay if it's a young black man with too much money who tells you instead? :huh:

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IN THE NAME OF GOD GET OVER IT! Children born anywhere in the world, of a US mother, are automatically assumed to have US citizenship at birth. (I have known these rules for years, my own kids being the products of an International marriage.) Here: link

 

There is an asymmetry in the way children born overseas to unmarried parents, only one of whom is a U.S. citizen, are treated. Children born abroad to unmarried American mothers are automatically considered natural-born citizens, as long as the mother has lived in the US for a continuous period of at least one year, anytime prior to the birth.

 

It doesn't matter one two-bit shit whether Obama was born in Hawaii or in Kenya. His mother was American. That's what matters. 10 minutes of research would have put what's-his-sleasy-ass's claims to rest. But that's not his interest. His interest is in maintaining enough doubt - however illegitimate - in enough peoples minds until the election to do some damage. GET OVER IT.

Edited by retro-man
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IN THE NAME OF GOD GET OVER IT! Children born anywhere in the world, of a US mother, are automatically assumed to have US citizenship at birth. (I have known these rules for years, my own kids being the products of an International marriage.) Here: link

 

 

 

It doesn't matter one two-bit shit whether Obama was born in Hawaii or in Kenya. His mother was American. That's what matters. 10 minutes of research would have put what's-his-sleasy-ass's claims to rest. But that's not his interest. His interest is in maintaining enough doubt - however illegitimate - in enough peoples minds until the election to do some damage. GET OVER IT.

 

His parents were married at the time of his birth, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Dunham), so the link you added has nothing to do with the facts.

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IN THE NAME OF GOD GET OVER IT! Children born anywhere in the world, of a US mother, are automatically assumed to have US citizenship at birth. (I have known these rules for years, my own kids being the products of an International marriage.) Here: link

 

 

 

It doesn't matter one two-bit shit whether Obama was born in Hawaii or in Kenya. His mother was American. That's what matters. 10 minutes of research would have put what's-his-sleasy-ass's claims to rest. But that's not his interest. His interest is in maintaining enough doubt - however illegitimate - in enough peoples minds until the election to do some damage. GET OVER IT.

 

 

It is way more complicated than that

 

Essentially, the argument is this:

 

Senator Obama could put this whole issue to rest by providing an official "vault copy" birth certificate.

Senator Obama has chosen not to do so.

The defendants (other than Obama) have a responsibility to protect the integrity of the electoral system by properly vetting the qualifications of candidates, which they have failed to perform.

Mr. Berg, other Americans, and our system of government are damaged by this failure.

Senator Obama, who has collected $425,000,000 in campaign contributions, has perpetrated a fraud.

Following are some of the factual statements made in the amended complaint (The complete complaint is attached below):

 

36. Obama is a representative of the Democratic People. However, Obama must meet the Qualifications specified for the United States Office of the President, which he must be a “natural born” citizen. Additionally, Obama must be at least a “naturalized” citizen to hold his Office of U.S. Senator for Illinois. Unfortunately, Obama is not a “natural born” citizen, nor is he a “naturalized” citizen. Just to name one of the problems, Obama lost his U.S. citizenship when his mother married an Indonesian citizen, Lolo Soetoro who legally “acknowledged” Obama as his son in Indonesia and/or “adopted” Obama, which caused Obama to become a “natural” Indonesian citizen. Stanley Ann Dunham Soetoro relocated herself and Obama to Indonesia wherein Obama’s mother naturalized in Indonesia. This is proven by Obama’s school record with the student’s name as “Barry Soetoro”, Father’s name: Lolo Soetoro, M.A., and Citizenship: Indonesia.

 

37. There appears to be no question that Defendant Obama’s mother, Stanley Ann Dunham, was a U.S. citizen. It is also undisputed, however, that his father, Barack Obama, Sr., was a citizen of Kenya. Obama’s parents, according to divorce records, were married on or about February 2, 1961.

 

38. Defendant Obama claims he was born in Honolulu, Hawaii on August 4, 1961 and it is uncertain in which hospital he claims to have been born. Obama’s grandmother on his father’s side, his half-brother and half-sister all claim Obama was born not in Hawaii but in Kenya. Reports reflect that Obama’s mother traveled to Kenya during her pregnancy; however, she was prevented from boarding a flight from Kenya to Hawaii at her late stage of pregnancy (which, apparently, was a normal restriction, to avoid births during a flight). By these reports, Stanley Ann Dunham Obama gave birth to Obama in Kenya, after which she flew home and registered Obama’s birth. There are records of a “registry of birth” for Obama, on or about August 8, 1961 in the public records office in Hawaii.

 

39. Upon investigation into the alleged birth of Obama in Honolulu, Hawaii, Obama’s birth is reported as occurring at two (2) separate hospitals, Kapiolani Hospital and Queens Hospital. The Rainbow Edition News Letter, November 2004 Edition, published by the Education Laboratory School did a several page article of an interview with Obama and his half-sister, Maya. The Rainbow Edition News Letter reports Obama was born August 4, 1961 at Queens Medical Center in Honolulu, Hawaii. More interesting in February 2008, Obama’s half-sister, Maya, was again interviewed in the Star Bulletin, and this time, Maya states Obama was born August 4, 1961 in Kapi’olani Medical Center for Women & Children.

40. Plaintiff is informed, believes and thereon alleges a research team went to Mombassa, Kenya, and located a Certificate Registering the birth of Barack Obama, Jr. to his father, a Kenyan citizen and his mother, a U.S. citizen.

 

41. Even if Obama was, in fact, born in Hawaii, he lost his U.S. citizenship when his mother re-married and moved to Indonesia with her Indonesian husband. In or about 1965, when Obama was approximately four (4) years old, his mother, Stanley Ann Dunham, married Lolo Soetoro, a citizen of Indonesia, whom she had met at the Hawaii University, and moved to Indonesia with Obama. Obama lost his U.S. citizenship, when his mother married Lolo Soetoro, and took up citizenship of and residency in Indonesia. Loss of citizenship, in these circumstances, under U.S. law (as in effect in 1965) required that foreign citizenship be achieved through “application.” Such type of naturalization occurred, for example, when a person acquired a foreign nationality by marriage to a national of that country. Nationality Act of 1940, Section 317(B). A minor child follows the naturalization and citizenship status of their custodial parent. A further issue is presented that Obama’s Indonesian stepfather, Lolo Soetoro, either signed an acknowledgement acknowledging Obama as his son or Lolo Soetoro adopted Obama, giving Obama natural Indonesia citizenship which explains the name Barry Soetoro and his citizenship listed as Indonesian.

 

42. Obama admits in his book, “Dreams from my father” Obama’s memoir (autobiography), that after his mother and Lolo Soetoro were married, Lolo Soetoro left Hawaii rather suddenly and Obama and his mother spent months in preparation for their move to Indonesia. Obama admits when he arrived in Indonesia he had already been enrolled in an Indonesia school and his relatives were waiting to meet him and his mother. Lolo Soetoro, an Indonesian State citizen, could not have enrolled Obama in school unless Lolo Soetoro signed an acknowledgement acknowledging Obama as his son, which had to be filed with the Government. Under Indonesian law, when a male acknowledges a child as his son, it deems the son, in this case Obama, as an Indonesian State citizen. Constitution of Republic of Indonesia, Law No. 62 of 1958 Law No. 12 of 2006 dated 1 Aug. 2006 concerning Citizenship of Republic of Indonesia, Law No. 9 of 1992 dated 31 Mar. 1992 concerning Immigration Affairs and Indonesian Civil Code (Kitab Undang-undang Hukum Perdata) (KUHPer) (Burgerlijk Wetboek voor Indonesie) states in pertinent part, State citizens of Indonesia include: (viii) children who are born outside of legal marriage from foreign State citizen mother who are acknowledged by father who is Indonesian State citizen as his children and that acknowledgment is made prior to children reaching 18 years of age or prior to marriage; Republic of Indonesia Constitution 1945, As amended by the First Amendment of 1999, the Second Amendment of 2000, the Third Amendment of 2001 and the Fourth Amendment of 2002, Chapter X, Citizens and Residents, Article 26 states, “(1) Citizens shall consist of indigenous Indonesian peoples and persons of foreign origin who have been legalized [sic] as citizens in accordance with law. (2) Residents shall consist of Indonesian citizens and foreign nationals living in Indonesia.”

 

43. Furthermore, under the Indonesian adoption law, once adopted by an Indonesian citizen, the adoption severs the child’s relationship to the birth parents, and the adopted child is given the same status as a natural child, Indonesian Constitution, Article 2. Thus, where Obama was actually born and what his mother’s citizenship status at the time of this birth is irrelevant.

 

44. The laws in Indonesia at the time of Obama’s arrival did not allow dual citizenship. If an Indonesian citizen married a foreigner, as in this case, Obama’s mother was required to renounce her U.S. citizenship and was sponsored by her Indonesian spouse. During this time, Indonesia was a Police State. The public schools did not allow foreign students, only citizens were allowed to attend as Indonesia was under strict rule and decreed a number of restrictions; therefore, in order for Obama to have attended school in Jakarta, which he did, he had to be a citizen of Indonesia, as the citizenship status of enrolled students was verified with Government records.

 

45. Obama was enrolled by his parents in a public school, Fransiskus Assisi School, a public school, in Jakarta, Indonesia. Plaintiff has received copies of the school registration in which it clearly states Obama’s name as “Barry Soetoro,” and lists his citizenship as Indonesian. Obama’s father is listed as Lolo Soetoro, Obama’s date of birth and place of birth are listed as August 4, 1961 in Hawaii, and Obama’s Religion is listed as Islam. This document was verified by Inside Edition, whose reporter, Matt Meagher, took the actual footage of the school record. At the time Obama was registered the public schools obtained and verified the citizenship status and name of the student through the Indonesian Government. All Indonesian students were required to carry government identity cards, or Karty Tanda Pendudaks, as well as family card identification called a Kartu Keluarga. The Kartu Keluarga is a family card which bears the legal names and citizenship status of all family members.

 

46. Since Obama’s birth was legally acknowledged by Lolo Soetoro, an Indonesian citizen, and/or Obama was adopted by Lolo Soetoro, which the evidence supports, Obama became an Indonesian citizen and bears the status as an Indonesia natural child (natural-born). For this reason, Obama would have been required to file applications with the U. S. State Department and follow the legal procedures to become a naturalized citizen in the United States, when he returned from Indonesia. If Obama and/or his family failed to follow these procedures, then Obama is an illegal alien.

 

47. Regardless of whether Obama was officially adopted, (which required a Court process), by his Indonesian stepfather, Lolo Soetoro, or his birth was acknowledged (which only required the signing of a governmental birth acknowledgement form), by Lolo Soetoro, one of which had to occur in order for Obama to have the name Barry Soetoro and his citizenship status listed as “Indonesian”, in either and/or both cases Obama’s name was required to be changed to the Indonesian father’s name, and Obama became a natural citizen of Indonesia. This is proven by the school records in Jakarta, Indonesia showing Obama’s name as Barry Soetoro and his citizenship as Indonesian. Again, the registration of a child in the public schools in Jakarta, Indonesia was verified with the Government Records on file with the Governmental Agencies.

 

48. The Indonesian citizenship law was designed to prevent apatride (stateless) or bipatride (dual citizenship). Indonesian regulations recognize neither apatride nor bipatride citizenship.

 

49. In addition, since Indonesia did not allow dual citizenship neither did the United States, Hague Convention of 1930.

 

50. In or about 1971, Obama’s mother sent Obama back to Hawaii. Obama was ten (10) years of age upon his return to Hawaii.

 

51. As a result of Obama’s Indonesia “natural” citizenship status, there is absolutely no way Obama could have ever regained U.S. “natural born” status, if he in fact ever held such. Obama could have only become naturalized if the proper paperwork was filed with the U.S. State Department, in which case, Obama would have received a Certification of Citizenship.

 

52. Plaintiff is informed, believes and thereon alleges Obama was never naturalized in the United States after his return. Obama was ten (10) years old when he returned to Hawaii to live with his grandparents. Obama’s mother did not return with him, and therefore, unable to apply for citizenship of Obama in the United States. If citizenship of Obama had ever been applied for, Obama would have a Certification of Citizenship.

 

53. Furthermore, Obama traveled to Indonesia, Pakistan and Southern India in 1981. The relations between Pakistan and India were extremely tense and Pakistan was in turmoil and under martial law. The country was filled with Afghan refugees; and Pakistan's Islamist-leaning Interservices Intelligence Agency (ISI) had begun to provide arms to the Afghan mujahideen and to assist the process of recruiting radicalized Muslim men--jihadists--from around the world to fight against the Soviet Union. Pakistan was so dangerous that it was on the State Department's travel ban list for US Citizens. Non-Muslim visitors were not welcome unless sponsored by their embassy for official business. A Muslim citizen of Indonesia traveling on an Indonesian passport would have success entering Indonesia, Pakistan and India. Therefore, it is believed Obama traveled on his Indonesian passport entering the Countries. Indonesian passports require renewal every five (5) years. At the time of Obama’s travels to Indonesia, Pakistan and India, Obama was twenty (20) years old. If Obama would have been a U.S. citizen, which he was not, 8 USC §1481(a)(2) provides loss of nationality by native born citizens upon "taking an oath or making an affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state...after having attained the age of eighteen years”, in violation of 8 U.S.C. §1401(a)(1). Since Lolo Soetoro legally acknowledged Obama as his son and/or adopted Obama, Obama was a “natural” citizen of Indonesia, as proven by Obama’s school record.

 

54. Plaintiff is informed, believes and thereon alleges Obama stated his citizenship as a “Kenya Citizen” when he applied for and was accepted at Columbia University. Obama has refused to release any records from Occidental College, Columbia University, Harvard Law School and any of his medical records.

 

55. Plaintiffs as well as many other democratic American citizens have requested proof of Obama’s citizenship status, however to no avail. Obama has promised to be an open and honest candidate, however, refuses to remove any doubts from Plaintiff’s and all the other democratic minds and prove his eligibility to serve as President of the United States.

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It is way more complicated than that

 

No, you and a select few others want it to be more complicated than that. Unfortunately for your far right-wing agenda, it's not.

 

This is a non-issue and the only people even talking about it are far right-wingers who would never be voting for Obama anyway. Face it. If this were anywhere close to legitimate, it would be getting press. It's not.

Edited by NickF1011
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No, you and a select few others want it to be more complicated than that. Unfortunately for your far right-wing agenda, it's not.

 

This is a non-issue and the only people even talking about it are far right-wingers who would never be voting for Obama anyway. Face it. If this were anywhere close to legitimate, it would be getting press. It's not.

 

 

time will tell. :hysterical::hysterical:

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So you are saying Obama and the DNC are above the LAW and CONSTITUTION? A civil case was filed, Obama petitioned for its dismissal and the judge rejected their petition. So almighty OBAMA can just ignore it so he can spoon feed more garbage into your brains, CHANGE, CHANGE, CHANGE! :hysterical::hysterical:

 

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/co...i.html#section1

U.S. Constitution Article II Section 1

absolutely not....beleive the conspiracy if YOU want too....if this in fact WAS an issue it would have ben adressed by his opponent BIG time...capice......this is a big joke if anything....and the only people that consider it an issue are ravid Democrats grasping at straws...obama is probably laughing all the way to the polls....it would be the same as someone calling ME ( New Zealand ) illegal...I would laugh my ass off and dismiss it, probably just to get the accuser more wound up.....why would i have to prove ANYTHING ?

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No, you and a select few others want it to be more complicated than that. Unfortunately for your far right-wing agenda, it's not.

 

This is a non-issue and the only people even talking about it are far right-wingers who would never be voting for Obama anyway. Face it. If this were anywhere close to legitimate, it would be getting press. It's not.

yup...press and McCain would have been all over it....instead they leave it to some Republican groupies....

Edited by Deanh
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Don't you mean Republican groupies? Hell, this isn't even Republican groupie stuff. This is right wing wacko territory. Even Rush Limbaugh isn't bringing this crap up.

hahaha...man, must go back and edit THAT mistake....Carl Lewis ( sprinter ) will be all over it....LOL! point is its probably total BS and Obama can't be bothered....

Edited by Deanh
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Man you LIB's really get upset if someone speaks the truth about Obama, the return of your messiah. There are a lot of similarities with the rise in power of a certain German in the early 1900's. Scary

 

I've never voted for a Democrat and I sure as hell ain't voting for Obama. So for the umpteenth time, I'm anything but a liberal. I just find these kind of desperate attacks from either side of the political spectrum completely ridiculous. This does nothing to advance your cause. In fact, it detracts from it.

 

You really want to know why this type of stuff annoys me? Because people lump people like you in with us conservatives who aren't completely insane.

Edited by NickF1011
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