Edstock Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 I like it too. It may be GM's new "swept away" design philosophy.....similar to the new Camaro but 100% better. That sure wouldn't be hard to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Well, talk to BORG. He said "Buick Sedan". Last I checked, the Lucerne is a Buick sedan...do you agree? Of course it is. With any brand, we'll see that there are features of one that aren't in the other, and vice versa. His point was that you'll see more features on the MKS not in the LaCrosse (or Lucerne, for that matter) than the other way around. As far as features on the Buick sedans that aren't in the MKS, I'll see which ones I can think of off the top of my head: 4-speed AT OnStar Front bench seating Pushrod engines (that argument's a wash IMO, though) A decades-old platform The blind-spot system (moot argument after about half a year, though) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 (edited) Of course it is. With any brand, we'll see that there are features of one that aren't in the other, and vice versa. His point was that you'll see more features on the MKS not in the LaCrosse (or Lucerne, for that matter) than the other way around. As far as features on the Buick sedans that aren't in the MKS, I'll see which ones I can think of off the top of my head: 4-speed AT OnStar Front bench seating Pushrod engines (that argument's a wash IMO, though) A decades-old platform The blind-spot system (moot argument after about half a year, though) But you know he thinks those features make a great car minus the OnStar and pushrod engine. Why do you call the MKS the MKTaurus, they don't look shit alike. He thinks it is just a rebadge (exact copy with a different logo), where most people including me would call it "platform sharing." He thinks that Ford is the only automaker that uses the same chassis under different models. It's not like the MKS chassis was derived from an economy car. It came from Volvo which only in P71's book is it a company that builds a crappy chassis. Edited September 21, 2008 by 2005Explorer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 (edited) Of course it is. With any brand, we'll see that there are features of one that aren't in the other, and vice versa. His point was that you'll see more features on the MKS not in the LaCrosse (or Lucerne, for that matter) than the other way around. You clearly don't get it. I'll try one more time. BORG was comparing the MKTaurus to the Buick brand as a whole...and neither have any more features than the other. Yes they are different...but pound for pound, I don't think that there is more appreciable amount of options offered by Lincoln than Buick. The MKTaurus does not have a blind spot warning system The MKTaurus does not have a lane departure system The MKTaurus does not have rain sensing wipers The MKTaurus does not have a spare tire The MKTaurus does not have cornering lights The MKTaurus does not have turn signals on or near the mirrors The MKTaurus does not have heated steering wheel The MKTaurus does not have adaptive shocks The MKTaurus does not have auto leveling rear suspension And you can make a list just as long of things that the MKTaurus has that the Lucerne does not. Although I am surprised that the MKTaurus does not have some ofthe options that the Lucerne has. Some of them are HUGE oversights on Ford'a part. Edited September 21, 2008 by P71_CrownVic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Why do you call the MKS the MKTaurus, they don't look shit alike. Ummmm, because he's a troll and a malcontent? If you've read his posts they are always contrary and negative. Someone desperately needs attention! While I'm all for spirited discussion, in 4800+ posts he adds nothing but discontent. I don't expect anyone to be a "fan boy" but an intelligent discussion (rather than inflamatory opinions) would be refreshing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 But you know he thinks those features make a great car minus the OnStar and pushrod engine. What is wrong with pushrods? Last I checked a 5.3 PUSHROD V8 gets the same mileage as a 4.6 OHC V8. He thinks that Ford is the only automaker that uses the same chassis under different models. Show me a link where I have said that. It came from Volvo which only in P71's book is it a company that builds a crappy chassis. Show me a link where I have said that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 IIRC, GM now offers 6-speed trannies in the Lacrosse and Lucerne, but I could be wrong. Isn't the Lucerne an old Cadillac chassis, like from the DTS-pig? A Caduick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 You clearly don't get it. I'll try one more time. BORG was comparing the MKTaurus to the Buick brand as a whole...and neither have any more features than the other. Yes they are different...but pound for pound, I don't think that there is more appreciable amount of options offered by Lincoln than Buick. The MKTaurus does not have a blind spot warning system The MKTaurus does not have a lane departure system The MKTaurus does not have rain sensing wipers The MKTaurus does not have a spare tire The MKTaurus does not have cornering lights The MKTaurus does not have turn signals on or near the mirrors The MKTaurus does not have heated steering wheel The MKTaurus does not have adaptive shocks The MKTaurus does not have auto leveling rear suspension And you can make a list just as long of things that the MKTaurus has that the Lucerne does not. Although I am surprised that the MKTaurus does not have some ofthe options that the Lucerne has. Some of them are HUGH oversights on Ford'a part. If you love the Lucerne so much then buy one. You know if Ford built this car he would be going on and on about how outdated the chassis and drivetrain of this car was, but it is a GM product so all of that gets a free ride. We all know you are a Ford hater so don't try to hid behind an old Crown Victoria and say you actually like Ford. Why don't you just come out and tell us all the truth what you think about the Ford Motor Company. It would be much easier then beating around the bush day in and day out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 did we sign away our r1st amendment right to disagree with P71? WOW how can one person dominate a thread like this? Richard used to do this (and maybe still does) - but MAN P71 ... give people some space .... we are looking at something fuy masked - and people have opinions ... I am not sure I like the MKS or the LaCrosse better - I will wait with my judgment until I see them - I drive them and see how they hold up ... the MKS is a solid effort and yes it is no better htan what Buick can put out ... but from where I sit - Lincoln was falling to the level of Mercury, and the MKS moved it up to Acura, Lexus ES/RX, and Buick level ... Nothing is holding them back to keep climbing .. not everyone has to agree with you ... Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 (edited) If you love the Lucerne so much then buy one. You know if Ford built this car he would be going on and on about how outdated the chassis and drivetrain of this car was, but it is a GM product so all of that gets a free ride. We all know you are a Ford hater so don't try to hid behind an old Crown Victoria and say you actually like Ford. Why don't you just come out and tell us all the truth what you think about the Ford Motor Company. It would be much easier then beating around the bush day in and day out. You obviously didn't read my whole post. And I don't hate Ford...can you see my sig? Edited September 21, 2008 by P71_CrownVic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 (edited) I am not sure I like the MKS or the LaCrosse better - I will wait with my judgment until I see them - I drive them and see how they hold up ... the MKS is a solid effort and yes it is no better htan what Buick can put out ... but from where I sit - Lincoln was falling to the level of Mercury, and the MKS moved it up to Acura, Lexus ES/RX, and Buick level ... Nothing is holding them back to keep climbing .. I agree that the MKTaurus was a (mostly) solid effort. But that is not what Lincoln needed. They needed a home run...and settled for a base hit. Edited September 21, 2008 by P71_CrownVic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 The MKTaurus does not have a blind spot warning system Like I care?The MKTaurus does not have a lane departure system Like I care? The MKTaurus does not have rain sensing wipers Thank goodness, I hate 'em. The MKTaurus does not have a spare tire A safety-spare will do fine, instead of a full-size spare. The MKTaurus does not have cornering lights Never been in a car that had ones that were worthwhile The MKTaurus does not have turn signals on or near the mirrors Like I care? The MKTaurus does not have heated steering wheel Like I care? Try gloves The MKTaurus does not have adaptive shocks Probably arriving with EB The MKTaurus does not have auto leveling rear suspension Probably arriving with EB Some of them are HUGH oversights on Ford'a part. So, "HUGH" probably doesn't work there anymore. Anyway, the MK S is in its first year, with further development to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 What is wrong with pushrods? Last I checked a 5.3 PUSHROD V8 gets the same mileage as a 4.6 OHC V8. Show me a link where I have said that. Show me a link where I have said that. You have said it all right in this thread. Maybe not those exact words, but you continually call the MKS an MK Taurus. Since you do that it shows that 1) You think that it is wrong to platform share, 2) You must think that it is a rebadge. I would call the Grand Marquis a rebadge not the MKS. You hate the MKS and that is fine. No one is making you buy one, however you don't give the car any credit. You claim that everyone builds a better car and has more features. You are just mad because Ford did not piss away a few million and give your beloved Panther based Town Car a facelift. Ford is committed to the D3 for their full sized cars from now into the near future. You might not like that, but that is the fact. No matter how much you go on and on about MK Taurus this or that you can't deny there is nothing wrong with the structure, build quality and crash protection of these cars. They handle well for a full sized car (as good or better then any Buick) are quiet, have tons of usable room, and with a vast improvement in styling (MKS and 2010 Taurus) they will become a great choice. You keep saying that the MKS is missing all of these Buick features, but where is Buick's AWD? Eco boost engine? Real wood trim? Sync? Modern chassis? Oh yeah I forgot everyone wants a heated steering wheel and hot washer fluid that has been recalled for engine bay fires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 I don't expect anyone to be a "fan boy" but an intelligent discussion (rather than inflamatory opinions) would be refreshing. I think an intelligent discussion (rather than blind cheerleading) would be refreshing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 I agree that the MKTaurus was a (mostly) solid effort. But that is not waht Lincol needed. They needed a home run...and settled for a base hit. Then why refer to it as a MKTaurus? MKVolvo would show at least some depth of understanding. I'm sick of the harping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 I think an intelligent discussion (rather than blind cheerleading) would be refreshing. You're not capable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Then why refer to it as a MKTaurus? MKVolvo would show at least some depth of understanding. I'm sick of the harping. Well he doesn't like the D3 chassis. No matter what Ford does with it, he won't like it. I have heard him slam the D3 over and over many times. Now I am not exactly sure what he has against it. I would blame lackluster styling of the Five-Hundred and current Taurus the reason it never completely took off. I think styling had MUCH more to do with the success of the D3 to this point then it being a flimsy chassis. I like the direction that Ford is taking in regards to styling with the MKS and the 2010 Taurus. Ford completely screwed up on the Five-Hundred and although they did improve it a little with the current Taurus it is going to take a complete make-over like they did with the MKS and the 2010 Taurus to make the car look good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 You keep saying that the MKS is missing all of these Buick features, but where is Buick's AWD? Eco boost engine? Real wood trim? Sync? Modern chassis? Again you are not reading. Try it for once...it will help you make intelligent posts. I'll break it down for you: You hate the MKS and that is fine. I agree that the MKTaurus was a (mostly) solid effort. -See, I don't "hate" it. ...however you don't give the car any credit. -See above. You claim that everyone builds a better car and has more features. -SHOW ME where I said that. I was disputing the claim that the MKS (there...feel better?) has more feature content than the Buick brand. I don't believe that to be true. I believe that they are close to the same number of options. Reference THIS post: BORG was comparing the MKTaurus to the Buick brand as a whole...and neither have any more features than the other. Yes they are different...but pound for pound, I don't think that there is more appreciable amount of options offered by Lincoln than Buick. You are just mad because Ford did not piss away a few million and give your beloved Panther based Town Car a facelift. -I have said on THIS SITE that the Panthers are not suitable for the retail market (due to Ford's gross mis-management of the platform)...and should be fleet only. Ford is committed to the D3 for their full sized cars from now into the near future. You might not like that, but that is the fact. -Clearly. They have "pissed away BILLIONS on that platform. You keep saying that the MKS is missing all of these Buick features, but where is Buick's AWD? Eco boost engine? Real wood trim? Sync? Modern chassis? -I guessed you missed this: And you can make a list just as long of things that the MKTaurus has that the Lucerne does not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 So, "HUGH" probably doesn't work there anymore. Anyway, the MK S is in its first year, with further development to come. Sorry, wrong fella. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 -Clearly. They have "pissed away BILLIONS on that platform. So what do you want them to do about it? Cancel the current MKS today and not release a 2010 Taurus and start all over from scratch? The D3 has never been redesigned until the MKS (not counting the little Taurus/Sable facelift in 2008). Let's see how the MKS does after a year or so before we deem it a total failure. I think it is going to do well in it's class. Let's give Ford a chance to get the Eco Boost bolted into it and see how it does. Last, why don't we give Ford a chance to release the 2010 Taurus before we claim that they have pissed away BILLIONS. If you could keep an open mind about the chassis under these cars, you might realize that the car riding on top of it is a good car. Who exactly has a superior FWD full size chassis compared to the D3 and if it is superior why? Better suspension? More solid? Better ride? Better handling? and last but more important stronger in an accident? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 The problem is, in your eyes, Ford can never, nor will they ever again, have a home run. Any Ford vehicle will always have the baggage of P hanging around its throat. This baggage dictates that no Ford decision is correct, no Ford vehicle is worthy, and nothing that Ford makes is as good, or better than the competition................. now or in the future. Thus, to even discuss it is just a huge waste of bandwidth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stpatrick90 Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 The MKTaurus does not have a blind spot warning system I believe this is going to be an option next yearThe MKTaurus does not have a lane departure system I believe this is going to be an option next year The MKTaurus does not have rain sensing wipers I think that the Lincoln does have this feature (I could be wrong though) The MKTaurus does not have a spare tire This is news to me, doesn't it have a mini spare? The MKTaurus does not have cornering lights wow cornering lights (sarcasm) The MKTaurus does not have turn signals on or near the mirrors Because everyone knows that if a car doesn't have this feature it is a POS (sarcasm) The MKTaurus does not have heated steering wheel oh dear how will anyone live without this feature (once again sarcasm) The MKTaurus does not have adaptive shocks as someone else mentioned this is going to be added with the Ecoboost The MKTaurus does not have auto leveling rear suspension as someone else mentioned this is going to be added with the Ecoboost And now for features the MKS (yes that is the cars real name) has that the Buicks don't: Adaptive Cruise Control Adaptive Cornering Headlights Automatic Sensing Hi-Beam control (senses when a car is coming and automatically switches to low-beams) Heated Back Seats (not 100% sure on this one) Power Rear Sunshade Panoramic Sunroof 6 speed Manumatic Sync Sirius Travel Link GPS navigation system (not that onstar crap) S.O.S. Post Crash System (the system that unlocks the doors, sounds the horn and puts on the hazards automatically in an accident) THX 14 speaker sound system AWD Moving on then, why is it that the MKS is called a MKTaurus by you? They share a platform and not much more than that, they look nothing like each other. And guess what the new Buick shares a platform with other cars too. If we went by your logic for naming cars, then we would have the Buick Impala, Buick DTS, Lincoln Crown Victoria, Mecury Fusion, Pontiac Matrix, Lexus Camry, Infiniti Armada, Lincoln Expedition, Cadillac Tahoe, GMC Silverado, Saab Trailblazer, Mercury Explorer, Mazda Escape, Mazda Edge (because the CX-9 is based off the CD3) etc etc. You see how your logic is messed up? So maybe you need to learn to STFU or actually make comments that show you actually do have a brain. Thanks and have a nice day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Moving on then, why is it that the MKS is called a MKTaurus by you? They share a platform and not much more than that, they look nothing like each other. And guess what the new Buick shares a platform with other cars too. If we went by your logic for naming cars, then we would have the Buick Impala, Buick DTS, Lincoln Crown Victoria, Mecury Fusion, Pontiac Matrix, Lexus Camry, Infiniti Armada, Lincoln Expedition, Cadillac Tahoe, GMC Silverado, Saab Trailblazer, Mercury Explorer, Mazda Escape, Mazda Edge (because the CX-9 is based off the CD3) etc etc. You see how your logic is messed up? So maybe you need to learn to STFU or actually make comments that show you actually do have a brain. Thanks and have a nice day. The funny thing is that most of the vehicles that you named are much more alike then the Taurus and MKS are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Sorry, wrong fella. :P Oops... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stpatrick90 Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 The funny thing is that most of the vehicles that you named are much more alike then the Taurus and MKS are. Yeah I realized that after I posted but it just goes to show how uninformed (that or arrogant) P71's comments are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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