2 tier wages

[lepskilledtrades]

People, where the hell did this "two tier" thing even start? Can't anyone read? That is why I hate the newspapers and the radical sites like SOS. One misinforms you unintentionally because they don't know any better- and the other misinforms you intentionally, because they have a personal agenda.

 

It is a new entry level. I am looking at the Chrysler and GM highlights and these entry level even get the 3%, 3% and 4% percent raises the last three years of the contract. On top of that they get first crack at the higher paying jobs when someone retires, so that higher paying work is not going away.

 

Capt723, I don't think these people are reading the same highlights and language as you and me. That's why the SOS site is bullshit. They are misleading people as to the actual language, IT IS NOT A TWO TIER, IT IS NO DIFFERENT THAN OUR CURRENT STARTING PAY, JUST A LITTLE LOWER AND THEY STILL HAVE A RIGHT TO GO TO THE HIGHER PAYING JOBS BY SENIORITY.

 

READ THE LANGUAGE- NOT THE HYPE - IT IS IN BLACK AND WHITE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I really think you are smokin crack!! Those 3% 3% 4% (raises) you call them are NOT raises!! They are bonuses!!! Raises are something that stays and acumulates not is a one time payment!! You really have to be a union rep to try and get us to buy this crap !! The amount of core and noncore jobs haven't been determined yet so who is to say that the company will not make 50% of the jobs core or noncore? Don't vote for a open ended contract!! VOTE NO!!!

Edited October 24, 2007 by lepskilledtrades

[Furious1Auto]

I really think you are smokin crack!! Those 3% 3% 4% (raises) you call them are NOT raises!! They are bonuses!!! Raises are something that stays and acumulates not is a one time payment!! You really have to be a union rep to try and get us to buy this crap !! The amount of core and noncore jobs haven't been determined yet so who is to say that the company will not make 50% of the jobs core or noncore? Don't vote for a open ended contract!! VOTE NO!!!

Lep him and Captain 723 are the same person with two accounts. I just haven't figured out who Two/Face working for!

[Captain723]

Lep him and Captain 723 are the same person with two accounts. I just haven't figured out who Two/Face working for!

Check time of posts...do you actually think that he would be able to pull up all the sht that he has posted while typing for 2 accounts!! I wish I were as fast as he is then!!

[Mr.Roboto]

How about 4 years of schooling and 8000 hrs. of training asshole!!!

 

To be an autoworker? Jeez all I had to do was apply, take a written test, physical and drug test. And I only have about a year and a half of college.

 

OK, let me remind you that I'm a third generation Ford worker. I'm well aware of the line workers that can't read or write, or are so high that they can't stand up unassisted.

 

Yea yea I know that you're in skilled trades. That takes training and abilities. However I bet when your wife's friends ask you what you do, you don't reply "autoworker". Probably more like "tradesman" or wahtever your particular trade is.

[bigredogre]

to work the line may not be special training nor a lot of education,but it is a lot of dedacation ,sweat and blood.

we all know these jobs can break you down .

and this is why we get paid what we do the sweat from our brow paves the way,skilled trades or production.

I belive we are fairly compesated for our efforts,and should have a pension and retierment after 30 yrs on the job.

yea not all factory people are saints nor sinners,but rember a assembly plant is a small city and has a comprable mix of people.

for all the slackers I meet in the plant there are at least 10 dedicated people.

 

I say we earn this pay and I still do not like what I am reading about the 2 teir system and the lighter physical duty ( senority ) jobs being put into secound tier classifaction.

this reverses the bid system now in place.

[level]

to work the line may not be special training nor a lot of education,but it is a lot of dedacation ,sweat and blood.

we all know these jobs can break you down .

and this is why we get paid what we do the sweat from our brow paves the way,skilled trades or production.

I belive we are fairly compesated for our efforts,and should have a pension and retierment after 30 yrs on the job.

yea not all factory people are saints nor sinners,but rember a assembly plant is a small city and has a comprable mix of people.

for all the slackers I meet in the plant there are at least 10 dedicated people.

 

I say we earn this pay and I still do not like what I am reading about the 2 teir system and the lighter physical duty ( senority ) jobs being put into secound tier classifaction.

this reverses the bid system now in place.

 

It doesn't reverse it. Those jobs are outsourced in the COA's. IT BRINGS THEM BACK!

 

AND OTHER THING, IT'S ENTRY LEVEL NOT TWO TIER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Imawhosure]

Let me say that this thread DOES have merit, IF we can pin down a few things.............things based on logic, and let us get those answers!!!!!!!!

 

1. A long-long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, a union called the UAW allowed its local chairpeople the right to negotiate COAs. These chairpeople did what they thought would secure their locals work inside the Ford system, and get them future product.

 

 

NOW PEOPLE< FOLLOW ME HERE A LITTLE A READ THIS< JUST DON"T SCAN IT PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Well, the COAs allowed massive outsourcing of UAW jobs, something that most of us probably believe the international was not happy about. Understand that less UAW members= less dues payed.

 

Fast forward to this contract!!!!

 

Level and a few others have trumpeted that this work has been returned to UAW members and now will be done in house. And yes ladies and gentlemen, he/they would be 100% correct, so do not accuse these people of misleading you.

 

But let us look into what this means; not in theory, but in practice.

 

PLEASE CONTINUE TO READ. This is why I am not ANTI union, but I am not PRO union in its current form.

 

A. The locals gave away the jobs, and the international was not happy at how much cash in dues they lost.

 

B. So for all intensive purposes, what has happened is this------------->you are on job A, local gives it away. International gets it back a year later, but you can't have it. Some new guy is gonna get it for 1/2 your pay since they will designate it NON-CORE. This means that you now have to find a new position!!!!!!

 

So the question is this--------------------->why not just put the guy making less on YOUR hard job, and let you have back your old one?????????

 

BECAUSE THEY NEED TO DESIGNATE NON CORE, that's why!!!!!!

 

Well why exactly is that anyway??????

 

Here is why............it is an opinion, but it is logical-------------------->We all know that more plants are scheduled to close. Do we agree on that?!?!?!?

 

Now then, if the eliminate whole departments from YOU by naming them non-core, you can't take that job........they can higher cheaper labor.

 

And so, WHEN they close plants, they have now eliminated thousands of jobs that YOU could transfer to by calling them non core. This means that the guy off the street who they just MADE a job for is safe at another plant, and you are blowing in the wind. You can't take their job cause they were there first, lol. But the only reason they are there is because they called it non core to start with, and nobody could transfer into it. How convienient, don't you think!!!!!

 

IMAGINE THIS IF YOU WILL------------->Union and company know that such and such a plant has a lot of people able to retire. Well, they want a cheaper pay scale, so what should they do? They don't want you transfering in, cause they aren't saving ANYTHING.

 

WAIT!!!! NON-CORE, NON CORE, that's the answer!!!!! We (COMPANY) makes 400 jobs non core. As the people are now bought out with a carrot of money, they can hire people for those positions by moving people around proclaiming such and such a job is non-core. (whole lines and departments) They can tell YOU, sorry bubba, only jobs open are non-core, wanna take the cut in pay. (I don't even know if ya could to be honest)

 

And the union?!?!?!?!?!

1. They have recouped the jobs from outsourcing, so they are happier than pigs in shit cause they are paying dues, and their headcount is relatively stable.

 

2. The old story goes, (and how many times have we heard this) the company can do that!!!!!!!

 

CONCLUSION------------>Let me ask you something------------>besides the fact they are UAW, what is the difference to you if the jobs are outsourced in some departments, considering you personally can never get them? Not to mention, you can understand by definition how cleaners are non-core since if the shithouse is dirty, or the line has paper, the car still gets built. But some of this other stuff that if not done, the car goes nowhere is crazy. That is the tipoff to me, and it should be to you. Besides the fact they will be forced on strike with you, it is not much difference between outsourced and 14 buck UAW workers.

 

All NCJs (non core jobs) designation is------------------->to pay around what Ford woulda paid to an outsource company, but let the union get dues from it, nothing more, nothing less. This is exactly why the union has its heart set on this, and trumpets the fact that it will NOW BE UAW, eventhough you can NEVER hold the position. What they will in essence be doing is shrinking the workforce that YOU can cover at work, and allow people that make less to be KINGS of these jobs.

 

FINALLY------------->How many of you will be happy once they name some jobs non core, to have to cover them if/when the new hires don't come to work? (sure, we all know they will come to work everyday, lolol) You can't have the job, but you gotta cover it cause they need to make the line run, and YOU CAN't REFUSE. (if there is a stipulation against this, fogive me........but show it to us!)

 

YES, THIS THREAD IS ABOUT 2 TIER, and yes, I think it might have to happen. All I am doing is------------->trying to show you that 2 tier (entry level) may be ok, but insure that you guys have language that doesn't screw you to badly. IT IS NOT ABOUT THE MONEY, it's about what it appears they can do to YOU by judicious use of the designation; and that seems all bad to me.

[level]

Let me say that this thread DOES have merit, IF we can pin down a few things.............things based on logic, and let us get those answers!!!!!!!!

 

1. A long-long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, a union called the UAW allowed its local chairpeople the right to negotiate COAs. These chairpeople did what they thought would secure their locals work inside the Ford system, and get them future product.

NOW PEOPLE< FOLLOW ME HERE A LITTLE A READ THIS< JUST DON"T SCAN IT PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Well, the COAs allowed massive outsourcing of UAW jobs, something that most of us probably believe the international was not happy about. Understand that less UAW members= less dues payed.

 

Fast forward to this contract!!!!

 

Level and a few others have trumpeted that this work has been returned to UAW members and now will be done in house. And yes ladies and gentlemen, he/they would be 100% correct, so do not accuse these people of misleading you.

 

But let us look into what this means; not in theory, but in practice.

 

PLEASE CONTINUE TO READ. This is why I am not ANTI union, but I am not PRO union in its current form.

 

A. The locals gave away the jobs, and the international was not happy at how much cash in dues they lost.

 

B. So for all intensive purposes, what has happened is this------------->you are on job A, local gives it away. International gets it back a year later, but you can't have it. Some new guy is gonna get it for 1/2 your pay since they will designate it NON-CORE. This means that you now have to find a new position!!!!!!

 

So the question is this--------------------->why not just put the guy making less on YOUR hard job, and let you have back your old one?????????

 

BECAUSE THEY NEED TO DESIGNATE NON CORE, that's why!!!!!!

 

Well why exactly is that anyway??????

 

Here is why............it is an opinion, but it is logical-------------------->We all know that more plants are scheduled to close. Do we agree on that?!?!?!?

 

Now then, if the eliminate whole departments from YOU by naming them non-core, you can't take that job........they can higher cheaper labor.

 

And so, WHEN they close plants, they have now eliminated thousands of jobs that YOU could transfer to by calling them non core. This means that the guy off the street who they just MADE a job for is safe at another plant, and you are blowing in the wind. You can't take their job cause they were there first, lol. But the only reason they are there is because they called it non core to start with, and nobody could transfer into it. How convienient, don't you think!!!!!

 

IMAGINE THIS IF YOU WILL------------->Union and company know that such and such a plant has a lot of people able to retire. Well, they want a cheaper pay scale, so what should they do? They don't want you transfering in, cause they aren't saving ANYTHING.

 

WAIT!!!! NON-CORE, NON CORE, that's the answer!!!!! We (COMPANY) makes 400 jobs non core. As the people are now bought out with a carrot of money, they can hire people for those positions by moving people around proclaiming such and such a job is non-core. (whole lines and departments) They can tell YOU, sorry bubba, only jobs open are non-core, wanna take the cut in pay. (I don't even know if ya could to be honest)

 

And the union?!?!?!?!?!

1. They have recouped the jobs from outsourcing, so they are happier than pigs in shit cause they are paying dues, and their headcount is relatively stable.

 

2. The old story goes, (and how many times have we heard this) the company can do that!!!!!!!

 

CONCLUSION------------>Let me ask you something------------>besides the fact they are UAW, what is the difference to you if the jobs are outsourced in some departments, considering you personally can never get them? Not to mention, you can understand by definition how cleaners are non-core since if the shithouse is dirty, or the line has paper, the car still gets built. But some of this other stuff that if not done, the car goes nowhere is crazy. That is the tipoff to me, and it should be to you. Besides the fact they will be forced on strike with you, it is not much difference between outsourced and 14 buck UAW workers.

 

All NCJs (non core jobs) designation is------------------->to pay around what Ford woulda paid to an outsource company, but let the union get dues from it, nothing more, nothing less. This is exactly why the union has its heart set on this, and trumpets the fact that it will NOW BE UAW, eventhough you can NEVER hold the position. What they will in essence be doing is shrinking the workforce that YOU can cover at work, and allow people that make less to be KINGS of these jobs.

 

FINALLY------------->How many of you will be happy once they name some jobs non core, to have to cover them if/when the new hires don't come to work? (sure, we all know they will come to work everyday, lolol) You can't have the job, but you gotta cover it cause they need to make the line run, and YOU CAN't REFUSE. (if there is a stipulation against this, fogive me........but show it to us!)

 

YES, THIS THREAD IS ABOUT 2 TIER, and yes, I think it might have to happen. All I am doing is------------->trying to show you that 2 tier (entry level) may be ok, but insure that you guys have language that doesn't screw you to badly. IT IS NOT ABOUT THE MONEY, it's about what it appears they can do to YOU by judicious use of the designation; and that seems all bad to me.

 

 

Get right back in a minute. Have an errand,

[kckid]

Get right back in a minute. Have an errand,

 

 

Hey Level,

I just downloaded a copy of the GM highlights......What does the language say about vacation time for the entry level....

From what I "Read" they will receive regular(Traditional) vacation allotmets as well as their raises. This sure doesnt sound like a second class worker!!!

[level]

IMAWHOSURE,

I HAVE ANSWERED SOME OF YOUR RESPONSES IN BOLD BELOW. YOUR ORIGINAL QUOTES ARE ITALICIZED.

 

Let me say that this thread DOES have merit, IF we can pin down a few things.............things based on logic, and let us get those answers!!!!!!!!

 

1. A long-long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, a union called the UAW allowed its local chairpeople the right to negotiate COAs. These chairpeople did what they thought would secure their locals work inside the Ford system, and get them future product.

NOW PEOPLE< FOLLOW ME HERE A LITTLE A READ THIS< JUST DON"T SCAN IT PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Well, the COAs allowed massive outsourcing of UAW jobs, something that most of us probably believe the international was not happy about. Understand that less UAW members= less dues payed.

 

Fast forward to this contract!!!!

 

Level and a few others have trumpeted that this work has been returned to UAW members and now will be done in house. And yes ladies and gentlemen, he/they would be 100% correct, so do not accuse these people of misleading you.

 

But let us look into what this means; not in theory, but in practice.

 

PLEASE CONTINUE TO READ. This is why I am not ANTI union, but I am not PRO union in its current form.

 

A. The locals gave away the jobs, and the international was not happy at how much cash in dues they lost.

 

B. So for all intensive purposes, what has happened is this------------->you are on job A, local gives it away. International gets it back a year later, but you can't have it. Some new guy is gonna get it for 1/2 your pay since they will designate it NON-CORE. This means that you now have to find a new position!!!!!!

 

So the question is this--------------------->why not just put the guy making less on YOUR hard job, and let you have back your old one?????????

 

BECAUSE THEY NEED TO DESIGNATE NON CORE, that's why!!!!!!

 

Well why exactly is that anyway??????

 

Here is why............it is an opinion, but it is logical-------------------->We all know that more plants are scheduled to close. Do we agree on that?!?!?!?

 

Now then, if the eliminate whole departments from YOU by naming them non-core, you can't take that job........they can higher cheaper labor.

 

And so, WHEN they close plants, they have now eliminated thousands of jobs that YOU could transfer to by calling them non core. This means that the guy off the street who they just MADE a job for is safe at another plant, and you are blowing in the wind. You can't take their job cause they were there first, lol. But the only reason they are there is because they called it non core to start with, and nobody could transfer into it. How convienient, don't you think!!!!!

 

NO, IMA. THIS IS INCORRECT.

HERE IS HOW IT WOULD GO.

1.) FORD WILL NEED TO BUY OUT ADDITIONAL PEOPLE THROUGH SOME TYPE OF ADDITIONAL BUYOUTS LIKE CHRYSLER AND GM.

2.) THERE WILL PROBABLY STILL BE EXTRA PEOPLE, BUT CONSIDERABLY LESS EXTRA (LET'S JUST ASSUME THAT FOR THIS EXERCISE)

3.) ANY REMAINING FLOWBACK OR GEN WOULD HAVE FIRST CRACK AT THE REMAINING OPEN JOBS, EXCLUDING CLEANUP. THE UNION WOULD NOT HIRE A ENTRY LEVEL WHILE THERE ARE MASTER WAGE EMPLOYEES IN THE GEN.

4.) THIS WOULD SLOW THE HIRING OF THE ENTRY LEVEL DOWN, TO POSSIBLY PREVENTING IT ENTIRELY FOR A YEAR OR TWO, UNTIL WE RETURN ALL FLOWBACK AND PLACE ALL GEN.

5.) AFTER ALL OF THE MASTER WAGE EMPLOYEES ARE PLACED, AND ADDITIONAL EMPLOYEES RETIRE, THEN THE ENTRY LEVEL COMES IN.

 

 

 

 

IMAGINE THIS IF YOU WILL------------->Union and company know that such and such a plant has a lot of people able to retire. Well, they want a cheaper pay scale, so what should they do? They don't want you transfering in, cause they aren't saving ANYTHING.

 

WAIT!!!! NON-CORE, NON CORE, that's the answer!!!!! We (COMPANY) makes 400 jobs non core. As the people are now bought out with a carrot of money, they can hire people for those positions by moving people around proclaiming such and such a job is non-core. (whole lines and departments) They can tell YOU, sorry bubba, only jobs open are non-core, wanna take the cut in pay. (I don't even know if ya could to be honest)

 

And the union?!?!?!?!?!

1. They have recouped the jobs from outsourcing, so they are happier than pigs in shit cause they are paying dues, and their headcount is relatively stable.

 

2. The old story goes, (and how many times have we heard this) the company can do that!!!!!!!

 

CONCLUSION------------>Let me ask you something------------>besides the fact they are UAW, what is the difference to you if the jobs are outsourced in some departments, considering you personally can never get them? Not to mention, you can understand by definition how cleaners are non-core since if the shithouse is dirty, or the line has paper, the car still gets built. But some of this other stuff that if not done, the car goes nowhere is crazy. That is the tipoff to me, and it should be to you. Besides the fact they will be forced on strike with you, it is not much difference between outsourced and 14 buck UAW workers.

 

All NCJs (non core jobs) designation is------------------->to pay around what Ford woulda paid to an outsource company, but let the union get dues from it, nothing more, nothing less. This is exactly why the union has its heart set on this, and trumpets the fact that it will NOW BE UAW, eventhough you can NEVER hold the position. What they will in essence be doing is shrinking the workforce that YOU can cover at work, and allow people that make less to be KINGS of these jobs.

 

FINALLY------------->How many of you will be happy once they name some jobs non core, to have to cover them if/when the new hires don't come to work? (sure, we all know they will come to work everyday, lolol) You can't have the job, but you gotta cover it cause they need to make the line run, and YOU CAN't REFUSE. (if there is a stipulation against this, fogive me........but show it to us!)

 

YES, THIS THREAD IS ABOUT 2 TIER, and yes, I think it might have to happen. All I am doing is------------->trying to show you that 2 tier (entry level) may be ok, but insure that you guys have language that doesn't screw you to badly. IT IS NOT ABOUT THE MONEY, it's about what it appears they can do to YOU by judicious use of the designation; and that seems all bad to me.

 

I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU HAVE SAID IN ESSENCE. EXCEPT THAT IT WAS NOT ABOUT DUES, IT IS ABOUT NUMBERS, AND NUMBERS EQUAL POWER. IF THE ECONOMY WAS NOT WHAT IT IS, AND GAS WAS NOT WHAT IT IS, AND FORD DID NOT SCREW UP THEIR DESIGNS AND BURN THEIR PROFITS, THEN, THE UAW WOULD NEVER HAVE GIVEN AWAY SUCH HARD WON BENEFITS THAT TOOK DECADES TO WIN. HISTORY HAS SHOWN THIS TO BE TRUE. IT IS A SAD DAY FOR US, BUT WE ARE TRULY PLAYING THE HAND WE ARE DEALT.

HOPEFULLY, THE ECONOMY AND THE AUTO INDUSTRY WILL RECOVER, MOSTLY ON OUR SWEAT AND HARD WORK AND GIVEBACK - SO THAT WE AGAIN MAY BENEFIT FROM THEIR RECOVERY.

 

BUT IT IS NOT A TRIUMPHANT DAY FOR THE UAW, IT'S MORE LIKE I.C.U. AND STABLE, HOPING TO GET TO THE RECOVERY WARD.

Edited October 25, 2007 by level

[Imawhosure]

Level,

 

Well, I can neither promote, nor detract from your assessment of what will happen when/if what I posted happens. Maybe someone else, but not me, lol. I will take your word for it until someone interjects something to the contrary.

 

Unless I can think of any other pertinent questions, I will leave this thread, just reading what is important.

 

But before I exit, let me say this------------>I do not know where you reside on the foodchain of the UAW, but I do know for the past years they have forgotten one important thing of unionization; "if you can't control the wages and benefits throughout the spectrum of your industry, your union is worthless."

 

The UAW has created a wonderfull package for its employees; so much so that any invading "auto SQUATTER" can easily undercut the companys that are union. This is how they managed to get a foothold, plain and simple. The UAW has little choice but to return to its members and ask for concessions to keep the jobs intact in this country. Anyone who attempts to portray GMs or Chryslers contract as anything other than concessions is disingenuous.........and no, I am not pointing at you.

 

To fix this disaster, the UAW MUST unionize all reasonably size automakers in this country, regardless of the distaste that members of Ford, GM, or Chrysler feel by doing such a thing. Without parity, the UAW workforce will always be blamed for the ills of the companies they work for, and the populace who are especially young will wonder why they should buy UAW products, when they will never make what a UAW member makes; and has no desire to join a union to get that rate, since unions have been painted as the devil himself.

 

This PAINTING has been earned by the reports in the media of featherbedding, and a host of other mismanagement occurances by unions themselves. A union is akin to politicians in most peoples minds. Why would anyone want to join one...........that is unless a union can show what it can do for members by getting new ones on board, and do it with integrity.

 

We both know that without saving Ford, GM, and Chrysler, the UAW will fade to nothing as Toyoty and friends will point this out to their associates, keeping them from ever signing out of fear.

 

THIS IS YOUR CROSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You must get them to sign on the dotted line, or this conversation will continue next contract, then the next, then the next, until all 3 domestics cease to exist as Toyoty strangulates them by demanding like cuts from their non-union workforce keeping the advantage.

 

In an earlier post, you suggested that if Toyoty dares try this avenue, YOUR PEOPLE will be there to get them on board.

 

YOU MUST MAKE THIS HAPPEN. Failure is not an option, as if you fail, either the UAW will cease to exist, or the big 2 1/2 will fade into oblivion along with you.

 

What I have said may not be popular, but there is no doubt that it is factual. Many on here want a union collapse across all industrys. Some because the union strongarms them; some because they want to strongarm their employees, and without a union, the path will become open.

 

I urge you to consider what I have stated, and use integrity. It is the only thing that will seperate us from politicians. If obfusctaion is used to get anything into effect, unions might win the battle, but will lose the war.

 

For me, I would rather win the war!!!! I believe that the sooner Toyoty is made our mortal enemy unless they want to join the brotherhood, the better off we are. The sooner we convince our brothers and sisters to force them to see that we can help them retain what they have and get more, the better off ALL OF US will be.

 

If the amount of members we have means more power in the workplace for everyone, then their adding to us and us to them has to be a good thing.

 

If you disagree, please feel free to PM me.

[Yuromastic]

to work the line may not be special training nor a lot of education,but it is a lot of dedacation ,sweat and blood.

we all know these jobs can break you down .

and this is why we get paid what we do the sweat from our brow paves the way,skilled trades or production.

I belive we are fairly compesated for our efforts,and should have a pension and retierment after 30 yrs on the job.

yea not all factory people are saints nor sinners,but rember a assembly plant is a small city and has a comprable mix of people.

for all the slackers I meet in the plant there are at least 10 dedicated people.

 

I say we earn this pay and I still do not like what I am reading about the 2 teir system and the lighter physical duty ( senority ) jobs being put into secound tier classifaction.

this reverses the bid system now in place.

 

I know that's right man. I've seen waaaay too many people hire down here at kcap in the heat of the summer when it's 110+ and 90% humidity and just drop within hours on the first day. Seen lots just go on break and never come back or just walk out in the middle of the shift w/o even letting anybody know. Pretty hilarious to me actually, but ticked the foreman off good. I'm just glad I'm in one of those soon to be non-core bs jobs cruising around on my fork.

 

Yuro

KCAP

[bigredogre]

Yuromastic those are the smart ones to get out fast ,who know it is not for them.

when we had temp at lot left at first break,some said they were stupid but I stiil say they were smart to know it is not for you.

 

some of this job is fun all is work but you must have a certain mindset to do it also.

[Furious1Auto]

It doesn't reverse it. Those jobs are outsourced in the COA's. IT BRINGS THEM BACK!

 

AND OTHER THING, IT'S ENTRY LEVEL NOT TWO TIER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

O.K."Progressive Two Tier" Are you happy now?

Edited October 26, 2007 by Furious1Auto

[Furious1Auto]

Two/Face there are still provisions missing from the contract! the missing document M-7 Employment security system (ESS) The terms of the provision that you posted are subject to the missing document, and it could totally alter the meaning! Also there is an 120 window after the contract has been ratified until the words "NON-CORE" will be defined at the local level! You and Ima's exchange along with the current view of Crystler's ratification vote has softened my position some, but until these issues are dealt with I can't with a clear conscience support the agreement especially if it veers to the negative of what has been agreed upon already. I don't want to handi-cap Ford from the other automakers but I also can't accept an open agreement! "NON-CORE" needs to be agreed upon nationally before the contract is ratified, and all agreements available for debate with time to do so! Not many with the exception of CSJM are stupid on this forum! Vote "NO" until you know!

Edited October 26, 2007 by Furious1Auto

[rtbzdavies]

Here is a post I ran across from a TPT from Chrysler. If the temps do get to vote on the contract. They need to seriously need to think about this..We would be a fool not to watch what is going on with GM and Chrysler after the contract is ratified. One CEO to me is the same as the other. Gm was told that they had job security, then hit with layoffs. Anyways here is the copy of the post:

 

I have a desire to speak up with regards to the tentative agreement between the UAW and Chrysler. Unfortunately, I have no other outlet to vent my feelings and am writing this in hopes of relieving some stress that I am currently experiencing. That said; I can care less as to what you think, what your response(s) will be or the insults that will be hurled upon me. Naturally unsolicited email(s) will be treated accordingly (spam).

 

I am currently employed by Chrysler in a temporary part-time (TPT) position. I began my employment as a summer vacation replacement (SVR) in hopes that I would be retained as a fulltime employee. I was, as many of you would be, attracted the high salary for SVR’s of $18.89/hr (plus $2.25/hr c.o.l.a.). Keep in mind I didn’t set that wage, it’s what was offered to me!

 

When applying for the position (btw, it was posted on monster.com, I had NO help in obtaining my SVR position) I decided to quit my fulltime sales job, one in which I was earning about 40k six years ago but because of the hard economy was earning just under 30k when I took the risk and went to Chrysler. I say risk because there were no guarantees that I would be employed for longer then the SVR commitment (119 days), but it was a calculated risk in that I could return to my sales profession if things didn’t work out.

 

During my employment as an SVR I did see waste, not of product but of time. A lot, not all of course, but a lot of fulltime workers aren’t in any hurry to do anything nor do they feel the need to be competitive. But I also witnessed mismanagement; of manpower and overtime. So to say it’s the fault of the workers for the state of the company or to blame management is ridiculous, it’s everyone fault who do not contribute to the prosperity of the company. At any rate I busted my hump during my stay as an SVR, management took note of that and asked if I were interested in a TPT position (20 hrs/wk same pay as SVR, I figured I would supplement my income with another part-time job), I readily agreed still hoping that I will, someday, become a fulltime employee.

 

About wages; I have sat here and watched people complain/whine/cry about how much autoworkers make. I will agree with you, it is a lot! Is it too much? Are the salaries/bonuses/perks that are given to execs to much? The thing you have to remember is that these salaries were negotiated. Management could have bargained to freeze wages, and if the UAW strikes, then so be it. But management caved time and time again. So do not cast blame on the wrong group of individuals because I ask you; “if your boss(es) were willing to pay you $28.00/hr plus benefits, would you take it?” or would you say; “sorry I’m not worth that much, please pay me less”. Don’t be ridiculous.

 

I will answer my own question and say “yes” autoworkers make too much. And I am in agreement that new hires should be brought in at a lower wage. I do not, however, agree with $14.00/hr which is just ludicrous. I have done the job and I honestly do not feel that that amount is compensation enough for that type of work. The work has been described as “turning a screw”. I would describe it as laborious, mundane, sometimes complex, hazardous work, where you’re on your feet 8-10 hours a day. Not everyone can perform this type of work, and believe me at $14.00/hr I honestly do not know if it is worth it, especially knowing that there may be a senior guy standing next to me doing the exact same thing making double the pay and receiving many more benefits then I. $18.00/hr would have been more in line for rollback of wages and still given the company room to become more profitable.

 

To the members with seniority who say they started $5-$6/hr, I will ask you how much a gallon of gas cost back then. I did ask a senior member that exact question; “what year where you earning $14.00/hr” he said “84-85” gas then was around $1.20/gal and the average price of a house was a little more then 100k. Roll everything back and then we can talk, but until then $14.00 is just unreasonable.

 

Now for the cause of my stress; as a PTP who was employed prior to the ratification of this new contract, if I were to be hired (and from what I understand that is a big IF) what the hell is my starting wage? I have posed this question to local as well as national UAW personnel, none of whom have an answer. I was even told that I would receive a phone call within 2 days with some answers; that was 6 days ago. I can’t believe the lack of knowledge or communication on the part of the UAW not only for my instance but for others who have told me similar stories, where there were told one thing, only to find out it wasn’t true, or that someone would get back with them and never follow-up. It’s a terrible thing to be in the dark.

 

You may say "yet another wanna be UAW worker" but you have to realize that this affects everybody. Do you really think that this will help the housing market in Michigan recover? Michigan itself is hurt by this agreement because lower wages=lower income tax, also less income=less buying of goods and services=less state tax, it's called trickle down economy...look it up!

 

People have told me there is nothing I can do, so why worry about it. Why worry..hhhmmm...I can come up with $29,000 reasons why (difference between current wages and new hires wages).

[Spring]

I don't where you saw that post, stang, but if that person was actively working at the time of the ratification, then he or she should be hired in at their current wages. The new starting wages begin for new hires following the ratification. I know that our plant has let a lot of our TPT/TFTs go. I presume so that they can be eventually hired back at the lower wage and voila! They are already trained on several jobs! I agree, it is very convoluted!

[hendew_15]

Here is a post I ran across from a TPT from Chrysler. If the temps do get to vote on the contract. They need to seriously need to think about this..We would be a fool not to watch what is going on with GM and Chrysler after the contract is ratified. One CEO to me is the same as the other. Gm was told that they had job security, then hit with layoffs. Anyways here is the copy of the post:

 

I have a desire to speak up with regards to the tentative agreement between the UAW and Chrysler. Unfortunately, I have no other outlet to vent my feelings and am writing this in hopes of relieving some stress that I am currently experiencing. That said; I can care less as to what you think, what your response(s) will be or the insults that will be hurled upon me. Naturally unsolicited email(s) will be treated accordingly (spam).

 

I am currently employed by Chrysler in a temporary part-time (TPT) position. I began my employment as a summer vacation replacement (SVR) in hopes that I would be retained as a fulltime employee. I was, as many of you would be, attracted the high salary for SVR’s of $18.89/hr (plus $2.25/hr c.o.l.a.). Keep in mind I didn’t set that wage, it’s what was offered to me!

 

When applying for the position (btw, it was posted on monster.com, I had NO help in obtaining my SVR position) I decided to quit my fulltime sales job, one in which I was earning about 40k six years ago but because of the hard economy was earning just under 30k when I took the risk and went to Chrysler. I say risk because there were no guarantees that I would be employed for longer then the SVR commitment (119 days), but it was a calculated risk in that I could return to my sales profession if things didn’t work out.

 

During my employment as an SVR I did see waste, not of product but of time. A lot, not all of course, but a lot of fulltime workers aren’t in any hurry to do anything nor do they feel the need to be competitive. But I also witnessed mismanagement; of manpower and overtime. So to say it’s the fault of the workers for the state of the company or to blame management is ridiculous, it’s everyone fault who do not contribute to the prosperity of the company. At any rate I busted my hump during my stay as an SVR, management took note of that and asked if I were interested in a TPT position (20 hrs/wk same pay as SVR, I figured I would supplement my income with another part-time job), I readily agreed still hoping that I will, someday, become a fulltime employee.

 

About wages; I have sat here and watched people complain/whine/cry about how much autoworkers make. I will agree with you, it is a lot! Is it too much? Are the salaries/bonuses/perks that are given to execs to much? The thing you have to remember is that these salaries were negotiated. Management could have bargained to freeze wages, and if the UAW strikes, then so be it. But management caved time and time again. So do not cast blame on the wrong group of individuals because I ask you; “if your boss(es) were willing to pay you $28.00/hr plus benefits, would you take it?” or would you say; “sorry I’m not worth that much, please pay me less”. Don’t be ridiculous.

 

I will answer my own question and say “yes” autoworkers make too much. And I am in agreement that new hires should be brought in at a lower wage. I do not, however, agree with $14.00/hr which is just ludicrous. I have done the job and I honestly do not feel that that amount is compensation enough for that type of work. The work has been described as “turning a screw”. I would describe it as laborious, mundane, sometimes complex, hazardous work, where you’re on your feet 8-10 hours a day. Not everyone can perform this type of work, and believe me at $14.00/hr I honestly do not know if it is worth it, especially knowing that there may be a senior guy standing next to me doing the exact same thing making double the pay and receiving many more benefits then I. $18.00/hr would have been more in line for rollback of wages and still given the company room to become more profitable.

 

To the members with seniority who say they started $5-$6/hr, I will ask you how much a gallon of gas cost back then. I did ask a senior member that exact question; “what year where you earning $14.00/hr” he said “84-85” gas then was around $1.20/gal and the average price of a house was a little more then 100k. Roll everything back and then we can talk, but until then $14.00 is just unreasonable.

 

Now for the cause of my stress; as a PTP who was employed prior to the ratification of this new contract, if I were to be hired (and from what I understand that is a big IF) what the hell is my starting wage? I have posed this question to local as well as national UAW personnel, none of whom have an answer. I was even told that I would receive a phone call within 2 days with some answers; that was 6 days ago. I can’t believe the lack of knowledge or communication on the part of the UAW not only for my instance but for others who have told me similar stories, where there were told one thing, only to find out it wasn’t true, or that someone would get back with them and never follow-up. It’s a terrible thing to be in the dark.

 

You may say "yet another wanna be UAW worker" but you have to realize that this affects everybody. Do you really think that this will help the housing market in Michigan recover? Michigan itself is hurt by this agreement because lower wages=lower income tax, also less income=less buying of goods and services=less state tax, it's called trickle down economy...look it up!

 

People have told me there is nothing I can do, so why worry about it. Why worry..hhhmmm...I can come up with $29,000 reasons why (difference between current wages and new hires wages).

 

 

 

This is what I'm talking about.The riff that entry level will cause amonst "us" and "them".This guy if he ever gets hired will have some sort of hatred for the senior workers and they will still look at him from a temp level and get treated accordinly.

 

This is just a bad ideal.

[ted labor]

I have been giving a great deal of consideration to the 2 tier wage structure and the future ramifications that it will bring. When you pick up the paper or turn on the news all they say is what about the company. My question is there anyone left in this country that cares about the average working men and women anymore? Do they realize we have family's and bills and hopes and dreams ? They only say we are over paid and we need to take pay and benefit cuts . Why should it be that the working people who only do whats asked of them have to pay for the mistakes made by those in positions of authority?I love my country and the ideals it was founded on but I am sick to death of the way it is being run into the ground. This was a great nation of innovative leaders in Manufacturing and technology,but our leaders and the greedy heads of corporations have sold our American dream to any third world nation that they can exploit and profit from. When will the average majority in this country stand up and say enough is enough? when will we take back what is ours? I have 3 children and I sincerely fear for what their future will be in this country. I understand some of the changes are necessary but what they are offering in the latest contracts to G.M. and Chrysler will only hasten the end of middle class America . This can only widen the gap between the haves and the have not's with nobody left in the middle.I cannot in good conscience vote yes for any contract that will further degrade my union and my country. thanks for taking the time to read my rantings

I agree that this country is being soldout and I fear for my kids future as well. However I think there are plenty of good paying jobs out there my guys make 18hr and no benefits and they say that is awesome money! come to work every day. they dont even get paid if were on a outside job if it rains no work no pay.Ask yourself this when your worried about loosing the american dream . Do you need them 2 new cars? do you need the tv in every room? to you need that 300 grand house ? Its all about choices and how you spend your money .look how people lived 50 years ago lucky to have 1 car and a 1200sqft house.FYI my employees bring more home than I do My take home pay is now only 500 a week compared to when I was at Ford raking in a grand a week.Through setting myself up by paying stuff off before I left .I'm making less money and still living like a king 4 vehicles nice house wife and kid.The thing to think about is are you gonna be just part of the system that america has become ?or are you gonna be part of what it used to be?If you dont like corp america than stand up get some balls and quit making them rich off of you paying interest back to them and stop buying so much crap you dont need! the rich have got the middle class sucked into having to have Everything like their neighbor Flat screen everyroom ,new cars ,stop consuming.save more .Pay Yourself First. ok anything else I will have to start charging .

[dark270]

I agree that this country is being soldout and I fear for my kids future as well. However I think there are plenty of good paying jobs out there my guys make 18hr and no benefits and they say that is awesome money! come to work every day. they dont even get paid if were on a outside job if it rains no work no pay.Ask yourself this when your worried about loosing the american dream . Do you need them 2 new cars? do you need the tv in every room? to you need that 300 grand house ? Its all about choices and how you spend your money .look how people lived 50 years ago lucky to have 1 car and a 1200sqft house.FYI my employees bring more home than I do My take home pay is now only 500 a week compared to when I was at Ford raking in a grand a week.Through setting myself up by paying stuff off before I left .I'm making less money and still living like a king 4 vehicles nice house wife and kid.The thing to think about is are you gonna be just part of the system that america has become ?or are you gonna be part of what it used to be?If you dont like corp america than stand up get some balls and quit making them rich off of you paying interest back to them and stop buying so much crap you dont need! the rich have got the middle class sucked into having to have Everything like their neighbor Flat screen everyroom ,new cars ,stop consuming.save more .Pay Yourself First. ok anything else I will have to start charging .

 

 

so actually your guys made 10 $ an hour after they pay for health insurance...yeah...ok

at 14$ my plant has gone thru 1082 people just to get 100 reliable ones. and they are lazy as trash!

 

so are we to go back in time in wages, and living, but pay milk, gas , etc at todays market prices? WTF?

 

stop consumer, and the economy goes where ?

 

lol

Edited October 26, 2007 by dark271

[ted labor]

so actually your guys made 10 $ an hour after they pay for health insurance...yeah...ok

at 14$ my plant has gone thru 1082 people just to get 100 reliable ones. and they are lazy as trash!

 

so are we to go back in time in wages, and living, but pay milk, gas , etc at todays market prices? WTF?

 

stop consumer, and the economy goes where ?

 

lol

They pay for health as they go or their spouse has it.And no DA The employer is paying more than that my guys take home is about 15.00 per hr the 18hr I pay him cost me about 21.15per hr so look at fords position before you start pissin and moning and sayin my people dont make shit. And If You want the Middle class to stand up !.save some money and stop buying shit !YOUR THE PROBLEM BIG SPENDER! AT 14.00 I'd quite too but like I said I"m living just fine at 500 per week take home.Last free Tip !"you can either work for the system or work with the system" Don't want to be somebodys puppet on a string do something. Henry Ford was tired of riding behind a stinking Horse Craping all the time .he decided to make a car cheaper that the average guy making 18 hr before taxes could afford. He did it! did it well left a great future for his wife and lets say three kids .then some spoiled little cry baby comes along and gets jealous because it was'nt his Idea and its either this job or no job and if I gotta do this job I'm gonna get what I can get because he gots deap pockets look at all this great work I do and if it were not for me then who would do it except poor me, in the far corner who dont have noting and knows he need somting says he do it why not.Theres nothing wrong with working for someone else but if you want to do better for yourself why should it be up to the company to improve Your So Called standard of living theres plenty of people to have your job be it here or anywhere else. :happy feet: :shades: :boring: :stats: :stats:

[bustedknuckles]

I agree that this country is being soldout and I fear for my kids future as well. However I think there are plenty of good paying jobs out there my guys make 18hr and no benefits and they say that is awesome money! come to work every day. they dont even get paid if were on a outside job if it rains no work no pay.Ask yourself this when your worried about loosing the american dream . Do you need them 2 new cars? do you need the tv in every room? to you need that 300 grand house ? Its all about choices and how you spend your money .look how people lived 50 years ago lucky to have 1 car and a 1200sqft house.FYI my employees bring more home than I do My take home pay is now only 500 a week compared to when I was at Ford raking in a grand a week.Through setting myself up by paying stuff off before I left .I'm making less money and still living like a king 4 vehicles nice house wife and kid.The thing to think about is are you gonna be just part of the system that america has become ?or are you gonna be part of what it used to be?If you dont like corp america than stand up get some balls and quit making them rich off of you paying interest back to them and stop buying so much crap you dont need! the rich have got the middle class sucked into having to have Everything like their neighbor Flat screen everyroom ,new cars ,stop consuming.save more .Pay Yourself First. ok anything else I will have to start charging .

I love it when some un-knowing pompous self serving ass makes grand assumptions about someones way of life without even asking. I can not say what my brothers and sisters do with their money but I for one do not live a lavish life of luxury. My home cost $163,000 I used a good deal of my tesphe to put down on it . I do not own a new vehicle my wife drives a 94 , and my work vehicle is a used 05. I do not own a flat screen T.V. nor do I have a T.V. in every room. I make every effort to save as much money as I can every week and put as much as possible away each year toward college for my 3 kids . I do not nor does my wife dress fancy I personally wont pay more then $20.00 dollars for a pair of shoes . So in closing instead of making yourself look like an ass maybe next time you might consider asking someone how they live rather then ass- U-Me-Ing. Jerk

[ted labor]

I love it when some un-knowing pompous self serving ass makes grand assumptions about someones way of life without even asking. I can not say what my brothers and sisters do with their money but I for one do not live a lavish life of luxury. My home cost $163,000 I used a good deal of my tesphe to put down on it . I do not own a new vehicle my wife drives a 94 , and my work vehicle is a used 05. I do not own a flat screen T.V. nor do I have a T.V. in every room. I make every effort to save as much money as I can every week and put as much as possible away each year toward college for my 3 kids . I do not nor does my wife dress fancy I personally wont pay more then $20.00 dollars for a pair of shoes . So in closing instead of making yourself look like an ass maybe next time you might consider asking someone how they live rather then ass- U-Me-Ing. Jerk

Well there you go! used your tesphe to put down on a house.just when your were saving your way out of the middle class you use your tesphe money to buy a house.Again you are support the rich.ask any finacial adviser if that was a smart move.why not spend 30 on a pair of shoes and have them last twice as long?Your a victim of your own self pitty and will always be middle class.keep working hard corp america needs you.NOT

[ted labor]

Busted knuckles you make way to much money doing something some flunky with no education can do .8hrs of training someone could be doing your job just fine.auto workers are over paid and under educated.

[bustedknuckles]

Busted knuckles you make way to much money doing something some flunky with no education can do .8hrs of training someone could be doing your job just fine.auto workers are over paid and under educated.

I make a wage comparable to what my "education level "and experience would bring me in any non union company 20 years of continuing education and experience The only thing that drew me to Ford in the first place was the pension and benefits not to mention no longer traveling all over for service calls. M :reading: y home was a wise choice as for my tesphe it was none the worse I assure you as I have made several very wise investments over the years . I have nearly enough college credits now to qualify for my engineering degree to go along with my associates degree in liberal arts . Also just a little reminder this is an employee forum is it not?