suv_guy_19 Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Actually they're indirectly contributing more technology than you think. Well, Volvo contributed a great deal directly.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnFan Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Land Rover sell Defender, LR2, LR3, Range Rover, Range Rover sport and are now planning a 6th new model. Did you mean Lincoln? Rofl, your attempts to flame Lincoln are futile, Jaguar is going to die and no one will save it. Land Rover might be lucky but I can assure you that in 5 years Jaguar will be put on shelf thank goodness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Keep going. You forgot a couple of products. That's right. I told ya so. You can say it. :lol: Not my concern, have fun on unemployment if Ford goes under... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Not my concern, have fun on unemployment if Ford goes under... Funny. It's been your concern for the past year or so. Why give up now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Funny. It's been your concern for the past year or so. Why give up now? Hey i need to do something to keep myself busy at work :stats: :shades: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardmayo Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Here are the numbers for the entire industry from Autoblog: Biggest Winner MINI 41.4% at 4,031 (09/06: 2,964) Biggest Loser HUMMER –21.6% at 5,080 (09/06: 6,739) Biggest Loser (Honorable Mention) Ford –21% at 155,037 (09/06: 204,070) BRANDS Acura –8.4% at 14,369 (09/06: 16,323) Audi 4.2% at 8,021 (09/06: 8,004) BMW 6.9% at 20,901 (09/06: 20,339) Buick –5.1% at 17,754 (09/06: 19,463) Cadillac 4.9% at 20,398 (09/06: 20,217) Chevrolet 6.1% at 194,637 (09/06: 190,825) Chrysler –14.8% at 38,668 (09/06: 47,211) Dodge 9% at 83,671 (09/06: 79,784) Ford –21% at 155,037 (09/06: 204,070) GMC 18.9% at 44,754 (09/06: 39,141) Honda 17.5% at 112,831 (09/06: 99,903) HUMMER –21.6% at 5,080 (09/06: 6,739) Hyundai 3.5% at 33,214 (09/06: 33,384) Infiniti 2.7% at 10,250 (09/06: 10,378) Jaguar –4.7% at 1,061 (09/06: 1,158) Jeep –7.0% at 37,460 (09/06: 41,893) Land Rover 25.6% at 4,190 (09/06: 3,469) Lexus 1.6% at 25,114 (09/06: 25,700) Lincoln 38% at 9,764 (09/06: 7,362) Mazda 28.8% at 25,098 (09/06: 20,261) Mercedes 18.0% at 22,549 (09/06: 19,873) Mercury –9.6% at 11,403 (09/06: 13,117) MINI 41.4% at 4,031 (09/06: 2,964) Mitsubishi 22.3% at 12,102 (09/06: 10,287) Nissan 12.0% at 84,019 (09/06: 77,962) Pontiac –11.5% at 31,817 (09/06: 37,376) Porsche 24.2% at 2,641 (09/06: 2,211) Saab –17.9% at 2,424 (09/06: 3,069) Saturn 7.2% at 20,776 (09/06: 20,153) Subaru 6.1% at 16,457 (09/06: 16,128) Suzuki 0.2% at 7,653 (09/06: 7,940) Toyota –0.9% at 187,929 (09/06: 197,250) Volkswagen –2.2% at 18,891 (09/06: 20,082) Volvo –9.6% at 8,408 (09/06: 9,672) NOT YET REPORTING Kia COMPANIES BMW Group 11.3% at 24,932 (09/06: 23,303) Chrysler LLC –1.5% at 159,799 (09/06: 168,888) Ford Motor Co –17.3% at 189,863 (09/06: 238,848) General Motors 3.8% at 337,640 (09/06: 338,380) Honda America 13.8% at 127,200 (09/06: 116,226) Nissan North America 11.0% at 94,269 (09/06: 88,340) Toyota Motor Co. –0.6% at 213,043 (09/06: 222,950) from http://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/02/by-the-...september-2007/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_the_limey Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Well, Volvo contributed a great deal directly.... If this diesel tech saves Ford's truck division then IMHO it would have been worth something. Also I would certainly not deny that Volvo has on balance been a good thing for Ford, but it hasn't all been "rainbow skies and rivers made of chocolate" like people like to make out on here. D3 hasn't been a roaring success for FNA (although there are other reasons for that). Also when Ford bought them in 1999 they were a largely finished-article vehicle-maker (i.e. not the work-in-progress like Land Rover or basketcase of Jag), however their sales are roughly the same now as they were then, i.e. ~450000 despite claims of over 600000 by now. Finally you only have to look at their powertrain line-up (new I6 and continued development of the diesel I5) to see that they are still fiercely independent, acting like a fiefdom as people like to use on here. Although their independent streak might have served them well when they get sold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 I really wonder at times...if people automatically assume that a Honda or Toyota gets better MPG without even checking competing vehicles out? How much does a difference of 1-2 MPG going to really make? Ford didn't put any effort into the redesign of the Escape, and it is another segment they are slowly but surely just giving away to the japanese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofford Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Ooooh a 9% drop for Volvo blimey. That's bad when you consider they have a new volume model in the C30 (which isn't setting the world alight). It's also a shocker when you consider they have tighter profit margins than real Premium car makers like Land Rover who co-incidentally saw an 8% increase in sales. Jags poor figures reflect two things. Firstly they are winding down production of the S type so stocks are dropping. Secondly the XK sales are being reduced in the USA to help meet demand in Europe where the currencies are worth more than the dollar. Not a lot you can really tell from Jag's figures until the XF launches..... As for Ford I said yesterday I think they can turn it around but that was a big drop. I wonder if Ford might now sell Volvo which could raise a lot of money now and keep JLR which is likely to demand a higher price in another year or so? Volvo's sales decline is largely due to steep drops in the S40 and S60 ranges. The C30 is not a "volume" product for the US. The sales target is about 8000-10,000 per year. And they just began to arrive at dealers over the last month. Because Volvo's assets were put up as collateral for the money Mulally borrowed last year, the net gain to Ford from an outright sale might not be that much more than the gain from a sale of JLR, whose assets were not part of the loan package, even if Volvo sold for a much higher figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TStag Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Rofl, your attempts to flame Lincoln are futile, Jaguar is going to die and no one will save it. Land Rover might be lucky but I can assure you that in 5 years Jaguar will be put on shelf thank goodness. Not sure if your trying to wind me up, but you should know that I'm not a huge Jag fan anyway... Anyhow aren't you totally ignoring the fact that Jag took 1000 advanced orders for the XF on the day it unveiled the XF. Not many car makers do that. Hardly a dying brand. Just one that's been poorly managed in recent years. There's not much anyone can say about Jaguar until we see how the XF sells. If it doesn't it's curtains for Jaguar as a premium large car maker I agree. They may just then have to survive on sportscar sales. Which didn't do Porsche any harm btw. As I say Volvo's collapsing sales are much more interesting. Ford should sell them now, get top dollar for them and wait at least a year before selling JLR to achieve a better price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Ford didn't put any effort into the redesign of the Escape, and it is another segment they are slowly but surely just giving away to the japanese. Yeah, new interior, exterior, new engine this year...no effort at all...good one. P.S. They sell all th Escapes they can build so.....what were you saying again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 new engine this year... Um....new engine? Reworked, maybe. Definitely not new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Um....new engine? Reworked, maybe. Definitely not new. Ok, reworked, lets nitpick...the reality is a great deal was put into the refresh and its proving to be a success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Um....new engine? Reworked, maybe. Definitely not new. The possible new I4...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofford Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Yeah, new interior, exterior, new engine this year...no effort at all...good one. P.S. They sell all th Escapes they can build so.....what were you saying again... I don't think there were any changes to the engines or transmissions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 I don't think there were any changes to the engines or transmissions. 2009 model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockFX Posted October 3, 2007 Author Share Posted October 3, 2007 Not sure if your trying to wind me up, but you should know that I'm not a huge Jag fan anyway... Anyhow aren't you totally ignoring the fact that Jag took 1000 advanced orders for the XF on the day it unveiled the XF. Not many car makers do that. Hardly a dying brand. Just one that's been poorly managed in recent years. There's not much anyone can say about Jaguar until we see how the XF sells. If it doesn't it's curtains for Jaguar as a premium large car maker I agree. They may just then have to survive on sportscar sales. Which didn't do Porsche any harm btw. As I say Volvo's collapsing sales are much more interesting. Ford should sell them now, get top dollar for them and wait at least a year before selling JLR to achieve a better price. Who cares if they have 1000 advanced sales if they only sell 4000 of them a year? It is a dying brand, at least a dying brand for Ford to pour money into. Even if Ford sold 50,000 Jaguars a year for $10,000 profit each that is only $500 million in profit. Considering that they sell less than 50k Jags and likely don't make $10k profit per, Ford would be much better off using the Jaguar development money to make better Fords. Using that money to make a better F-150 and needing one less $1,000 rebate for each F-150 sold would increase profit by $800 million. See why Jaguar is a bad fit for Ford? Lol Porsche only makes sportscars ( that SUV doesn't count, it's only in America). There is no way Jaguar could survive like Porsche. JAGUAR HAS NEVER BEEN PROFITABLE! It wasn't before Ford bought it, it hasn't been since they bought it. Just...let...it...die. And since Ford tied LR into Jag, LR has to go as well, the downside outweighs the upside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Yeah, new interior, exterior, new engine this year...no effort at all...good one. P.S. They sell all th Escapes they can build so.....what were you saying again... Ford used to lead the segment, now, they scrapping at 3rd place. If you think that Ford did a good job in the redesign then you only prove how pointless you are. The escape came out sporting the same 8 year old sheetmetal and windows because Ford couldn't have been bothered. Sporting the same uncompetitive powertrain. Yeah it had a boost the first few months but the small SUV segment is blowing up and Ford's market share is falling. End of discussion, they are just handing over another segment to thejapanese because they couldn't have been bothered to put their best effort into it. Unlike you I want Ford to suceed and that involves putting out class leading product, you would defend Ford going extinct with defending half ass shit boxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
range Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 (edited) HIGHLIGHTS FROM SEPTEMBER 2007 65% reduction in daily rental sales Ford will surpass 2007 goal of reducing 175K fleet sales three months early. Will continue to exceed goal in last quarter and reduce more in 2008. Daily rental sales is down to only 6% < 40 days supply of Focus (2008 Focus started shipping Oct 1 - won't have impact until after Oct) September 2007 sales comparison is to the highest month of 2006 (September 06) which was high due to 0% financing for 72 month in Sept 06. $1200 decrease in incentives in Sept 07 vs Sept 06 Lincoln - largest sales increase of any luxury brand for YTD 2007. Retail sales met goal of 13% market share Highest sales month ever for Edge and MKX - (highest retail sales also) Fleet sales for Edge <1% Edited October 3, 2007 by range Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Ok, reworked, lets nitpick...the reality is a great deal was put into the refresh and its proving to be a success. One thing for sure is if you consider the 2008 escape a great effort by ford, then you must Consider Honda and Toyota Gods, for the effort they put into the new Rav4 and CR-V. I fail to see how the Escape's market share for the segment falling is considered a success. Ford has to bargain bin price it just to move it off the lots. But then again if Ford changed the grill on the crown vic you would praise it as if ford put out a whole new vehicle. Ford is not keeping up with the competition, plain and simple. The escape needed to be reskinned from the ground up, it was 8 years old. But yet we neeed to call it merely a "refresh" so you have some straw to grasp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 One thing for sure is if you consider the 2008 escape a great effort by ford, then you must Consider Honda and Toyota Gods, for the effort they put into the new Rav4 and CR-V. I fail to see how the Escape's market share for the segment falling is considered a success. Ford has to bargain bin price it just to move it off the lots. But then again if Ford changed the grill on the crown vic you would praise it as if ford put out a whole new vehicle. Ford is not keeping up with the competition, plain and simple. The escape needed to be reskinned from the ground up, it was 8 years old. But yet we neeed to call it merely a "refresh" so you have some straw to grasp. Yeah, lets compare it to a new grill, then it will make sense, tell me what would have been good enough for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 JAGUAR HAS NEVER BEEN PROFITABLE! It wasn't before Ford bought it, That is incorrect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
focus05 Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 The Escape is, like many of Ford's recent efforts, incomplete. They need a couple things: 1) new engines (check) 2) new transmission (check) and 3) better driving dynamics... A ground up approach, of course, would have been best, but alas... Overall, the ergonomics aren't bad. The styling is unique to its class with everyone going curvy ute with ugly snout. It has the ability to be competitive with some changes. Two of those will happen. As far as complaints about on-road manners - well, that's a little less hopeful in the short-term. I hope no one considers that a great effort. Because if it is, it will take a miracle to fix this company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockFX Posted October 3, 2007 Author Share Posted October 3, 2007 HIGHLIGHTS FROM SEPTEMBER 2007 65% reduction in daily rental sales Ford will surpass 2007 goal of reducing 175K fleet sales three months early. Will continue to exceed goal in last quarter and reduce more in 2008. Daily rental sales is down to only 6% < 40 days supply of Focus (2008 Focus started shipping Oct 1 - won't have impact until after Oct) September 2007 sales comparison is to the highest month of 2006 (September 06) which was high due to 0% financing for 72 month in Sept 06. $1200 decrease in incentives in Sept 07 vs Sept 06 Lincoln - largest sales increase of any luxury brand for YTD 2007. Retail sales met goal of 13% market share Highest sales month ever for Edge and MKX - (highest retail sales also) Fleet sales for Edge <1% Wait, $1,200 LESS per car in incentives? That's like $200 million more profit just for that month That's a positive development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockFX Posted October 3, 2007 Author Share Posted October 3, 2007 That is incorrect. Ok, it was profitable in the 70s. And maybe 2 years in the 90s. Jaguar has never been CONSISTENTLY profitable. Better now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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