igor Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 the PR was from FORD - and said it will have a 6speed for NG Escape ... we shall see what that means, but is cited year 2010 - so it could be Kuga .. I am hopeful the Escape would at least get a 5speed auto from the Fusion with the I4 .. but we shall see. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 That's kinda the problem you get with random musings in random 'articles' by random 'writers'. Uh..it wasn't a random article by random writers. It was a FORD PRESS RELEASE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 why bother ... the mass of that market is in the I4 segment .. see CR-V - Foprd should just upgrade the i4 and drop the V6 What percentage of the current Escape sales are V6? The vast, VAST, majority on Escape-central.com have the V6. If Ford drops the V6, and does not have an option other than the Edge, then I'll be shopping elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 (edited) What percentage of the current Escape sales are V6? The vast, VAST, majority on Escape-central.com have the V6. If Ford drops the V6, and does not have an option other than the Edge, then I'll be shopping elsewhere. why? the best selling car in the segment is the CR-V . I do not have the breakdown of th Escape sales, but am positive they are biased towards the I4 .. the only reason I would get the V6 is the towing .. and at those prices, I could truly just step up to the Edge .. Nissan, and Vw are also introducing new small crossover s and neither has a V6. Truly the only V6 compact SUV's are Rav-4, Vue and Outlander .. the Sportage has a V6, but it is a 173hp. 2.7l - the same for Tuscon. Santa Fe is V6 only. Igor Edited October 1, 2007 by igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 why? the best selling car in the segment is the CR-V . I do not have the breakdown of th Escape sales, but am positive they are biased towards the I4 .. the only reason I would get the V6 is the towing .. and at those prices, I could truly just step up to the Edge .. Nissan, and Vw are also introducing new small crossover s and neither has a V6. Igor I think your right, and if the I4 makes almost as much power as the V6 does now with better transmission and FE, I don't see the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 why? the best selling car in the segment is the CR-V . You cannot account for taste. The pig could have a Geo Metro engine in it and it would sell like hotcakes because of it's badge. I constantly see posts pointing out the availability of the V6 as one of the advantages people saw in the Escape over the CR-V. To assume that the average person is going to look at HP/Torque in this market over number of cylinders is a gross misjudgement IMHO. I do not have the breakdown of th Escape sales, but am positive they are biased towards the I4 .. the only reason I would get the V6 is the towing .. and at those prices, I could truly just step up to the Edge .. Nissan, and Vw are also introducing new small crossover s and neither has a V6. You'd step up to the Edge, but that's a pretty big step from a V6 Escape, and the Edge is not an Escape - the Escape is targetted as an "SUV" whereas the Edge is targetted as a "CUV" yeah, you, me, and the other guy know they're both car based, but from an aesthetic point of view they're very different. If they do drop the V6 then count on Escape sales dropping. I hope the Uni-explorer is halfway decent, or my next SUV may not be a Ford. Truly the only V6 compact SUV's are Rav-4, Vue and Outlander .. the Sportage has a V6, but it is a 173hp. 2.7l - the same for Tuscon. Santa Fe is V6 only. Well, I wouldn't buy a Rav, the Vue is an overweight pig, and the Outlander is a Mitsu. The V6 is a selling point of the Escape, to assume that the people who have been buying the Escape (And I know many repeat buyers) would "accept" a 4-banger with less horsepower would be a poor assumption in my book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waymondospiff Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 One thing to remember regarding V6/4cyl Escape mix is that until 2005 the 4cyl engine was the way-too-small 2.0L Zetec and it was only available with a 5-speed manual - no 4cyl/auto. The production mix was WAY in favor of the V6. Now with the MZR 2.3L 4cyl available with an automatic I've noted many more 4cyl Escapes on dealer lots, but is it actually more popular than the 3.0L? All I know is that the gf has a 4cyl/auto Escape and it makes my 4cyl/auto Mazda5 look pretty peppy. The 2.3L is just not happy in the Escape. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 All I know is that the gf has a 4cyl/auto Escape and it makes my 4cyl/auto Mazda5 look pretty peppy. The 2.3L is just not happy in the Escape. Scott I would expect the 2.5L/6 speed auto combo to alleviate this issue. However, I'm not 100% convinced yet that dropping the V6 is a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 sullynd - I take your point .. I guess Ford is lucky I do not work for them :D I actually really like the Escape - and did consider getting the V6 (for the towing) .. but not for now. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_fairmont_wagon Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Well, now that I have heard that the 5AT from the Fusion 2.3L I4 combo is the Jatco 5AT from such infamous installations as the first year or two of the Mazda6 or the Nissan Altima's last generation, I realize why it didn't get shoved into the engine bay of the Escape. Its just not a tiny transmission. It is also a power sapping pig unless its been upgraded recently, but, its at least got decent torque capacity. I'd like to see the Escape get the new 2.5L with a 6AT. If they can manage to squeeze 180 HP and 175-180 tq out of that 2.5L and couple it with a decent 6AT, it should perform every bit as well as the current 3.0L v6/4AT combo does. If they manage to throw in a PIP 3.0L v6 with even the current 4AT, it will more than make up for the weight gain of the recent upgrades to the escape for the next few model years. Given that the current 3.0L makes 200/200, and the rumors for the PIP D30 are 240+hp and 225tq, that's about 8% more torque and about 12% more hp. Those are number you can feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 sullynd - I take your point .. I guess Ford is lucky I do not work for them :D I actually really like the Escape - and did consider getting the V6 (for the towing) .. but not for now. I've been nothing but happy with my 2003 Escape - the only non-regular maintenance I've had to do is replace the front bearings and sway bar links (The links are a common weak point). The arguments really could be the same for the Escape/Edge as the Fusion/Taurus (I know, Escape/TarusX is a more direct comparisson, but the Escape is closer to the Edge than the X). 4 banger sales are where the market is for the midsize cars, yet no one would argue that the Fusion does not need a V6, in fact, many if not most of us have been complaining that the Fusion needs the 3.5. Saying to a potential Escape buyer that if they want a V6 they should get an Edge is like telling a Fusion buyer to get a Taurus - they're just as likely, if not more so, to walk into a 'yota dealer and get a V6 Camry at that point. I do tow with my Escape, it's only twice a year (boat in - boat out), but it's nice not to have to borrow a vehicle to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 So if the next gen Escape is based on the Kuga, and there is to be a Lincoln variant (MKUga?) rather than a Mercury version, doesn't that presuppose the need for a V6? Could there be a 4 cylinder Lincoln? Offer it as Hybrid only? (4 cylinder with "V6" performance) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 So if the next gen Escape is based on the Kuga, and there is to be a Lincoln variant (MKUga?) rather than a Mercury version, doesn't that presuppose the need for a V6? Could there be a 4 cylinder Lincoln? Offer it as Hybrid only? (4 cylinder with "V6" performance) Turbocharged 4 cylinder would be a possibility for Lincoln. Acura gets away with it in the RDX.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Turbocharged 4 cylinder would be a possibility for Lincoln. Acura gets away with it in the RDX.... that could work, but sullynd is right - the Lincoln version would probably need a V6 .. Acura is hardly a brand to use as a luxury example. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 I do believe Ford had plans of this a few years ago. Granted, I'm sure the plans have changed as numerous things have been and constantly do since they don't stay the course. I have test driven the RDX for a friend, and that 2.3L is pretty strong little sucker overall, feels like it has more power than what it's claiming. Provided, it's kept lighter. Because the CX-7 with the 2.3L T could stand to use a few more horses or maybe an extra gear to get it up and going. My only concern is, at what pricepoint would consumers accept a baby Lincoln CUV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomaro Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Is the I-4 enough for the Escape?... I mean, even with the 201HP V6, some of the horses seem to be asleep because it's acceleration numbers are worse than the previous version from the weight it gained in the process. From what I remember, it's mid 9's, and I think someone hit 10 Seconds on one test. I can't imagine what the 2.3L I-4 would be posting. Now maybe the 2.3L TDI from the CX-7, might be a proper solution... Although it requires premium... And please let's not suggest Ford produce a detuned version of anything...considering the competition and what they have, it needs to be "MORE-Tuned"... My old 05 V6 suffered from the same issue as my 06 F-150. Gearing is not that good and powerband is way too high. The 3.0 liter in the Escape does fine once the revs are over 5,000. The 4banger is a dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 that could work, but sullynd is right - the Lincoln version would probably need a V6 .. Acura is hardly a brand to use as a luxury example. Igor If Lincoln doesn't want to be Acura, they should ignore a vehicle that size altogether. By and large, the X3 has been dismissed by BMW purists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 If Lincoln doesn't want to be Acura, they should ignore a vehicle that size altogether. By and large, the X3 has been dismissed by BMW purists. purists schmurists .. the X3 sells as many units as the X5 (which is all new). a small crossover is perfect lux entry given the market... Cadillac is readying the BRS - a FWD/AWD crossover the size of Vue, so is Saab, Volvo is prepping the CX60 as well .. that segment is booming right now. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 purists schmurists .. the X3 sells as many units as the X5 (which is all new). a small crossover is perfect lux entry given the market... Cadillac is readying the BRS - a FWD/AWD crossover the size of Vue, so is Saab, Volvo is prepping the CX60 as well .. that segment is booming right now. Igor The X3 costs considerably less than the X5. It should be selling BETTER, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 The X3 costs considerably less than the X5. It should be selling BETTER, no? well yes ... and it is considering its age compared to the "new thing" X5 .... and the point is that it is not just purists buys cars .. and Lincoln does not have many purists ... the small lux CUV segment is coming up strong ... and I think it would be a mistake for a near-lux brand like Lincoln is right now to ignore it.. it is a good way to get a foot in the door. Plus CUV's are so high profit ... Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 well yes ... and it is considering its age compared to the "new thing" X5 .... and the point is that it is not just purists buys cars .. and Lincoln does not have many purists ... the small lux CUV segment is coming up strong ... and I think it would be a mistake for a near-lux brand like Lincoln is right now to ignore it.. it is a good way to get a foot in the door. Plus CUV's are so high profit ... Igor I'm not saying they shouldn't do it. I'm just saying if Lincoln doesn't want to be Acura they shouldn't do it. I have no problem with Lincoln (at least partially) trying to mimick Acura. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 I'm not saying they shouldn't do it. I'm just saying if Lincoln doesn't want to be Acura they shouldn't do it. I have no problem with Lincoln (at least partially) trying to mimick Acura. the thing that makes RDX so agragious (sp?) is the fact that it truly is a rebadged reskinned CR-V with a turbo engine .. Lincolns are moving to be more .. the MKS will be more than reskinned Taurus - even when the 2010 Taurus debuts .. the Flex counterpart will be more than reskinned Flex .. etc ... it would be a mistake to go back to MKZ and MKX ... and the RDX is a tiny bit above the MKZ and MKX level of rebadge - as it changed the door skins .. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sranger Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 The X3 costs considerably less than the X5. It should be selling BETTER, no? Actually, there is little difference in price once you add a few of the desirable options to the X3. I drove a 2007 X3 and X5 for a day each. The X3 was hands down more fun to drive and there really is not that much more usable room in the X5.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisH Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 I have test driven the RDX for a friend, and that 2.3L is pretty strong little sucker overall, feels like it has more power than what it's claiming. Provided, it's kept lighter. Because the CX-7 with the 2.3L T could stand to use a few more horses or maybe an extra gear to get it up and going. My only concern is, at what pricepoint would consumers accept a baby Lincoln CUV. I'm surprised that you think the CX-7 needs more power or another gear. We've had a CX-7 for a year now (my wife's car). I think it does fine. If you are easy on the gas from a stop, it will shift into 2nd gear really fast. It takes a little time to get used to that. First couple of times I pulled out into traffic, I eased out and then hit the gas. This approach causes it to shift into 2nd. Then it does not have enough rpm to build any boost. Eventually, it would downshift and take off. Give it plenty of pedal off the line and you do not have that problem. My Mustang GT has a custom tune, so feathering the throttle imposes no penalty. I just have to remember the difference when driving the CX-7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue II Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Is there any more facts about the 2.5L I4? I've heard several different stories about it and they seem to contract dictic any logic, such as its a Ford design since they didn't like the reliability of the Mazda design..specifically in TF applications. I'd like to see 185 HP with good MPG out of it That's still true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.