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Sporty Cars


NickF1011

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Someone else mentioned in a thread Ford's complete lack of sporty vehicles sans the Mustang. I thought I would make a list of some full-line mainstream brands and see how many "sporty" cars they actually make in comparison.

 

Ford, Lincoln, Mercury: Mustang

 

And the rest....from most to least. (Indicates upcoming models)

 

Chevrolet, Pontiac, Saturn: Cobalt SS, (HHR SS), Impala SS, (Camaro), Corvette, G6 GXP, Grand Prix GXP (G8), Solstice, Sky

 

Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep: Crossfire, 300C, Sebring coupe/conv (hardly count, but they are sorta almost sporty), Viper, Charger SRT8, Magnum SRT8, (Challenger), (Caliber SRT4), Grand Cherokee SRT8

 

Honda: Accord coupe, Civic Si, S2000 (discontinued though I believe)

 

Nissan: 350Z, Altima coupe, (Skyline)

 

Volkswagen: GTI, R32

 

Mitsubishi: Lancer Evo IX, Eclipse

 

Toyota: Scion tC

 

Subaru: Impreza WRX

 

The only full-line automaker out there with only ONE sporty car besides Ford is Toyota. Ugh.

 

Am I missing any? I'm sure I am. I made the list pretty quickly.

Edited by NickF1011
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Toyota has a few more, at least in canada

 

The Corolla and Matrix XRS, I believe they get a 170hp 4 banger, not sure if there still made or not, and the Solara as well, which is sporty too.

What about the Focus ST? isn't that sporty?

 

Ford Focus is a grandads car, not a sports car.

 

Ford doesn’t build a proper sports car in Europe. Zero sales in Europe is a missed a golden opportunity. Ford used to build the best selling sports car in Europe the Ford Capri. Its Hero to Zero for Ford sports car sales in Europe you might well say.

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Ford Focus is a grandads car, not a sports car.

 

Ford doesn’t build a proper sports car in Europe. Zero sales in Europe is a missed a golden opportunity. Ford used to build the best selling sports car in Europe the Ford Capri. Its Hero to Zero for Ford sports car sales in Europe you might well say.

 

 

This doesn't count?

 

http://www.egmcartech.com/2007/06/29/spy-s...hits-the-track/

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Toyota has a few more, at least in canada

 

The Corolla and Matrix XRS, I believe they get a 170hp 4 banger, not sure if there still made or not, and the Solara as well, which is sporty too.

 

 

What about the Focus ST? isn't that sporty?

 

Eh, Corolla and Matrix don't cut it. Most of the other little pocket rocket cars I pointed out were all near or over the 200 HP mark. And the Solara has been discontinued.

 

Focus ST? Pshhh.

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Ford Focus is a grandads car, not a sports car.

 

Ford doesn’t build a proper sports car in Europe. Zero sales in Europe is a missed a golden opportunity. Ford used to build the best selling sports car in Europe the Ford Capri. Its Hero to Zero for Ford sports car sales in Europe you might well say.

 

 

Too be fair, the Current Focus ST would smoke a few of them car on that list above, in straight line and corners.. especially the caliber SRT4 and the ScioTC thingy.

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Too be fair, the Current Focus ST would smoke a few of them car on that list above, in straight line and corners.. especially the caliber SRT4 and the ScioTC thingy.

 

The Caliber SRT4 isn't even out yet as far as I know. It will be using a similar drivetrain to the last Neon SRT4, which basically means it would entirely obliterate the Focus ST.

 

Sporty isn't necessarily about raw performance numbers either. It's about perception. The Scion tC is definitely perceived as a sport coupe. Not many people think "sport" anything when they hear Focus, unless they happen to be a WRC fan.

 

Moot point though isn't it? Didn't Ford axe the 2.3 Duratec in the '08 Focus?

Edited by NickF1011
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Too be fair, the Current Focus ST would smoke a few of them car on that list above, in straight line and corners.. especially the caliber SRT4 and the ScioTC thingy.

 

I want something "Classic" like a RWD Mustang (Proper Sports Car), not a boring bland dull jellymould rentals/hire car or something that Granddad might buy new, that has the same sale success of a few Reliant Robins. Nobody is interested buying a Focus ST, which means nobody is interested in them, and they are not a real sports car and never will be.

 

Can't see the Focus ST outselling a Mustang, with over 8 million Mustangs sold, it must be million to 1 sales ratio with the Focus ST.

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Ford Fusion, bitch!

 

... nah, even I can't say that with a straight face.

 

3.5 and at least a manual shift automatic (preferably 6 speed manual) along with a tighter suspension would work wonders for the Fusion. I really did like the way the V6 SEL drove, but it just lacked the fun factor of rowing through the gears and having torque available on demand.

 

A lot of Ford's vehicles are CAPABLE of being sporty with the right touches. Ford just chooses not to equip them as such.

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The Caliber SRT4 isn't even out yet as far as I know. It will be using a similar drivetrain to the last Neon SRT4, which basically means it would entirely obliterate the Focus ST.

 

Sporty isn't necessarily about raw performance numbers either. It's about perception. The Scion tC is definitely perceived as a sport coupe. Not many people think "sport" anything when they hear Focus, unless they happen to be a WRC fan.

 

Moot point though isn't it? Didn't Ford axe the 2.3 Duratec in the '08 Focus?

 

We have few WRC fans in the UK, millions of spectators used to attend & line the long route of the British RAC rally back in the 60s & 70s when just about every manufacturer had a car entered in the rally, so when Mk1 & Mk2 RWD escorts made Porsche 911s, BMWs, Saab's, Ferrari powered Lancia's to name just a few, they were made to look like second rate rubbish by the invincible Escorts for a whole decade. Today it has been removed fron British television because it has become so boring, only a few manufactures bother to enter cars if you win it now it's not much of an achievement, if all you have to beat is a Skoda or Citroen so nobody really cares or watches it anymore. Its a shame, Ford cocked up big time with the ST, they should have kept the RS logo, it has massive respect & status, and is held in very high esteem within Europe.

Edited by Ford Jellymoulds
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I have still have not seen Focus ST on the UKs roads anywhere yet, so sales must be very close to zero.

Some times i do wonder about you the focus st is the best selling hot hatch out selling the astra 2-1. Last month ford said that thay had sold over 10,000 st focus

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Some times i do wonder about you the focus st is the best selling hot hatch out selling the astra 2-1. Last month ford said that thay had sold over 10,000 st focus

 

If Ford have only sold only 10,000 STs since 2002 then that is 2000 sales per year, Mustang sells over 10,000 a month not 10,000 every 5 years.

 

Ford should pull the plug on rallying nobody watches it anymore, ITV has pulled the plug on it, and get back into F1, billions watch the sport worldwide it would be great to see Ford knock Ferrari off the top spot again.

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At some point in time the folks in Dearborn decided that if you want a sporty car or sedan, Mazda can fill your needs.

 

Thats fine for some. I know where its biult and who makes the Mazda 6 (except the tubo one from Hiroshima). and I still not buying.

 

Cook me up a 6 speed 3.5 AWD Fusion and then were talking.

 

As stated above it would not be hard to make some sporty models of whats in production right now. Will it happen? Doubtful.

 

We are looking forward to the BMW 1 series next year. Looks to be a nice little coupe to finally replace the E30.

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We have few WRC fans in the UK, millions of spectators used to attend & line the long route of the British RAC rally back in the 60s & 70s when just about every manufacturer had a car entered in the rally, so when Mk1 & Mk2 RWD escorts made Porsche 911s, BMWs, Saab's, Ferrari powered Lancia's to name just a few, they were made to look like second rate rubbish by the invincible Escorts for a whole decade. Today it has been removed fron British television because it has become so boring, only a few manufactures bother to enter cars if you win it now it's not much of an achievement, if all you have to beat is a Skoda or Citroen so nobody really cares or watches it anymore. Its a shame, Ford cocked up big time with the ST, they should have kept the RS logo, it has massive respect & status, and is held in very high esteem within Europe.

 

According to the link I provided Ford is bringing the RS back.

 

And I would love to see FMC back in F1, but as you well know they haven't had much success since their last Championship with Schumacher in '94 (and they haven't won the Constructor Championship since '81).

 

All things considered I would love to see a FMC Prototype for Le Mans & ALMS, especially with the closed-cockpit design about to make a full return in 2010 for LMP1. Long live Group C!!!

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According to the link I provided Ford is bringing the RS back.

 

And I would love to see FMC back in F1, but as you well know they haven't had much success since their last Championship with Schumacher in '94 (and they haven't won the Constructor Championship since '81).

 

All things considered I would love to see a FMC Prototype for Le Mans & ALMS, especially with the closed-cockpit design about to make a full return in 2010 for LMP1. Long live Group C!!!

 

I was thinking more Cosworth Fords engines that made Michael Schumacher record wins look second-rate rubbish, in the late 60's to mid 70's. Ford engines had all the top 6 positions in nearly every race of every season. Capri ruled supreme on the racetrack in European Touring Cars, the RWD escorts dominated off road world rallying for a whole decade. Golden years for Ford that will never be bettered by Ford.

 

1976 James Hunt won the Formula One World Championship

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_Formula_One_season

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1974 Emerson Fittipaldi won the Formula One World Championship with the DFV

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974_Formula_One_season

 

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1973 Jackie Stewart won the Formula One World Championship with the DFV

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Formula_One_season

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

1972 Emerson Fittipaldi won the Formula One World Championship with the DFV

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972_Formula_One_season

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

1971 Jackie Stewart won the Formula One World Championship with the DFV

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_Formula_One_season

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

1970 J Rindt won the Formula One World Championship with the DFV

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970_Formula_One_season

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

1969 Jackie Stewart won the Formula One World Championship with the DFV

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1969_Formula_One_season

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

1968 Graham Hill won the Formula One World Championship with the DFV

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Formula_One_season

 

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The last time Ford was truly kicking ass in the USA, say 1988-1997, their lineup looked something like this:

 

BASE ----------- PERFORMANCE

 

Festiva --------- (yougottabekidding)

Escort ---------- Escort GT

Tempo --------- (ha-ha!)

Contour -------- SVT Contour

Taurus --------- Taurus SHO

Thunderbird --- Thunderbird TC / SC

Mustang ------- Mustang GT

Probe ---------- Probe GT

F150 ----------- Lightning

Aerostar ------ (um, no, but the Windstar had 200hp WAY before anyone else)

 

 

Notice the trend? Almost every offering, save the most utilitarian and cheap, had a higher-spec'd performance option that offered varying degrees of legitimate gains. They were not always big sellers, but they no doubt got attention and perhaps convinced someone to get a base model if they couldn't afford the GT/SC/SVT or whatever.

 

Hell, even the base models of Probe and Thunderbird were somewhat sport; those in the know appreciated the Contour's sporty handling; and yes, 200hp was virtually unheard of in a MINIVAN when Windstar debuted (granted it was that overworked POS 3.8 trying to deliver the goods, but hey - at least Dad Racer had a compelling reason to consider at Ford at the time).

 

What is so hard about the "performance/sport trim level concept", for Ford 200X to understand and implement? All we get are dealer-markup Mustang packages. Whoop-dee-freekin-dee. Ford was most successful when nearly every car in the lineup had a reasonably well-executed "halo" version to attract attention.

Edited by goingincirclez
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This topic is precisely why I am so frustrated with Ford at the moment :banghead:

 

I understand that the cars they are producing are middle of the road/conservative, decent gas mileage and meant for a large general population. But what about those of us who will always have the need for speed and will not settle for just any run-of-the-mill vehicle and don't get our undies in a bunch when gas prices go up?

 

There is the Mustang, of course. Which when I was younger provided that need. But now I am at a different income level and tho I want the same sort of power, also want more luxury and less hard plastic.

 

My Thunderbird provided almost everything I wanted in a new car except for that pussy 3.9l engine. :censored: Why oh why they didn't offer it with a supercharger I will never know.

 

So my options now - well foreign is out - no way. So that leaves Chrysler which does a way better job at offering a variety of car choices than Ford.

 

If the TBird died today and I had to go out and buy a new car, it would be a Charger or Magnum SRT8. Not because I am a MOPAR freak - which I am not - but because Ford does not offer anything comparable.

 

My new mantra:

 

MAKE A BOLD MOVE! BRING OUT THE INTERCEPTOR, CALL IT THUNDERBIRD AND OFFER THE SAME POWER CHOICES AS THE LS CARS!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Thank you, you have been a wonderful audience.

 

*steps off soapbox*

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