[Pioneer]

I agree with what that dealer said. Take almost any domestic car for sale today, slap an import badge on it, and it would sell. Just look at the Vibe/Matrix.

[Hellcat_F6F]

Ford deserves every bit of heat it's taking for letting the Taurus die. It has to rank with the most idiotic, assanine things any car company has ever done..shooting themselves in the foot. Imagine how this must look to car buyers...all they see about Ford are about "way forward" announcements that are just cut, cut and more cut..close this plant, close that plant, cancel this program, cancel that one...allude to supposed future products that nobody knows about (because they don't exist), and the death of the Taurus. Not exactly confidence inspring.

[Footballfan]

Hellcat_F6F, on Oct 29 2006, 02:26 AM, said:

Ford deserves every bit of heat it's taking for letting the Taurus die. It has to rank with the most idiotic, assanine things any car company has ever done..shooting themselves in the foot. Imagine how this must look to car buyers...all they see about Ford are about "way forward" announcements that are just cut, cut and more cut..close this plant, close that plant, cancel this program, cancel that one...allude to supposed future products that nobody knows about (because they don't exist), and the death of the Taurus. Not exactly confidence inspring.

Well said. There is an old saying "talk is cheap." Having a male model as your President, and cute slogans like "the Way Forward" and "Bold Moves" is a joke. You bring out the product first, then have your PR campaigns. Nearly a year after the first of two restructurings, this company is in no better shape.

[WC-MAN]

Has anything changed? Ford crrently has a class beating large sedan withone critical weakness, its underpowered. Yet this has been said since the first model appeared and the issue has not been addressed. The whole thing is rediculous. The American sedan buyer is NOT Hertz rent-a-car. They actually WANT something for their money.

The most telling thing on the interview is the word "cost cutting". Example: The Japanese and Koreans have finally forced Ford to put head curtain airbags in their cars. The MINUTE that customers started to demand that type of thing, Ford should have been first to market with and then touted their cars as having something EXTRA that nobody else offered.

The extent of Ford's ineptitude is easy to illustrate. Lets go back to 1974. Now imagine that Ford poured all of its development dollars into the Mavrick, Pinto, and Elite (Subcompacts and Personal Luxury Coupes were the SUV's of the 1970's) while not updating the LTD or Torino for a decade, cancelling the Mustang, and telling customers who come to their lot looking for big cars to just buy Mavrick instead, after all, its the new "Big Car".

I know 40 year Ford customers who are currently driving toyota's because Ford's cars got so bad.

[taxman100]

What's driving people away from the Five Hundred is the poor engine, the goofy CVT transmission, and the fact that, while it is very boring looking, it doesn't look like an American sedan. Also, a lot of people know it is just a reworked Volvo - what pride is there in owning something like that?

I love my Grand Marquis, but have absolutely no interest in a Five Hundred. If the Panther goes away, a Five Hundred will not be replacing it in my garage, no matter what new engine it may have under the hood.

I'm just speaking for myself - but I'm not exactly mainstream middle class - they now buy Honda, Toyota, and Nissan, which I won't do.

[ebritt]

Sixcav, on Oct 29 2006, 04:41 PM, said:

Personally I don't think the fact that the 3.0 V6 is underpowered as compared to the rest of the segment is that big an issue to people who buy these kinds of cars. Most people don't buy a family sedan with the notion of drag racing their neighbor Bob to the corner market you know. What I think is the big problem with the 500 is the way it looks. It's down right boring. I'm not alone in that point of view either.



http://cars.about.co...r/05_500awd.htm



http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/0410_...d/interior.html



http://www.automobil...avalon_comparo/

This is what is really driving customers away from the 500 folks. It's ugly. It needs a redesign. From a technological point of view the car is s smash hit. They could re-tune the 3.0 V6 if they wanted to and bump the hp up to 230 hp easily and it would be well within range of the segment. The 3.5 will be a fine sub for it. But trust me, the motor is not what is driving buyers away from this car. It's the narcoleptic design that is. It needs a sheet metal redesign in the worst way, some attention to detail in the interior and that's all. Then it would be a stellar car.

hat's pretty much what I have said for the last 6 months The 500 is BORING!!! But if you put a Honda emblem on the front it would be "the most wonderful car ever made"! And retards would buy it just because of the logo.

[ZanatWork]

One more time, for those determined to miss it:


The Taurus was essentially put to death a decade back, when its styling suddenly was horrid and the car had LESS space in some dimensions than the car it replaced.

The funeral and wake were over by the time Clinton got re-elected. The was synonymous with 'mediocrity" by 2000, and practiclaly everyone responsible is gone from Ford.

Hence, hating out on Ford today for mistakes then is to KNOWINGLY have really bad aim.

I'm hoping-dearly-that the D3 cars get what they need to get the reviews I feel they deserve. I've never seen a car get so much abuse for being "boring"...if it's so boring, why all the impassioned hatred for it? Car mags call practically EVERY mainstram sedan boring...excepting sport models and, miraculously, the Fusion.

For those complaining about the Five Hundred's powerplant, explain what else should have been put it. By the way, no V8s in the corporate collection would fit, except for the too-costly YamaVolvo motor. The 3.5 wasn't ready. On the other hand, the Taurus had been a retail flop for many years already, the Fusion was a ways off...something had to get out there, and it had to use existing components.

Foresight would have saved the situation. Neither Trotman or Nasser wanted to look at anything but high-profit luxury cars and trucks/suvs, so no new mainstream cars or car powertrains got any priority. This is pretty well-known.

The new motors and upcoming models should go a long way toward undoing the mistakes from Alex and Jac...but dumb peole everywhere will hack on the guys actually fixing things. So much for the information age.

[156n3rd]

My '92 L wagon is rated at 140 hp. The Vulcan still purrs at over 148g's. It was never underpowered when the car was/is used as it is intended. When driving the Taurus I always felt that the car was well built. It was designed right and Ford made their money with it until they realized that they didn't know how to follow up with a winner.

[johnnyb82]

I still don't understand why people hate the 1996 redesign so much. Yeah it was tough to get used to, But I think it can look very sleek in the right color.

[marc-o]

ebritt, on Oct 30 2006, 12:55 AM, said:

hat's pretty much what I have said for the last 6 months The 500 is BORING!!! But if you put a Honda emblem on the front it would be "the most wonderful car ever made"! And retards would buy it just because of the logo.

While I agree the main problem with the 500 is that its boring, I don't think its sales would double if there was a Honda badge on it - the current Accord is probably the ugliest generation ever, even after a partial redesign, and it's sales are down significantly over the last model.

Most people don't want to be seen in an ugly car and most people don't want to buy what they hear is a "boring" car. Imports aren't immune to ugliness, although since domestics have more of a perception gap, styling is even more important.

[WC-MAN]

Quote

Personally I don't think the fact that the 3.0 V6 is underpowered as compared to the rest of the segment is that big an issue to people who buy these kinds of cars. Most people don't buy a family sedan with the notion of drag racing their neighbor Bob to the corner market you know. What I think is the big problem with the 500 is the way it looks. It's down right boring. I'm not alone in that point of view either.

I'm one of the people who buy this car. Wife, 2 kids, 34, and my next car has to be big enough for a growing family. You'd be SURPRISED how important power is. Dodge sells Chargers based on that fact alone. It certainly isn't the high dollar interior or usable design. Sure, when it appeared you could ecuse it, but by now it should have more power available.

I disagree with the "sporty" character of "popular" sedans. That'd be the Honda Accord, Toyota Camry, and maybe the Chevy Impala, none of which are very sporty. I understand why Ford would err on the side of catuion, look at the Camry. After years of being a boring car that would make me yawn if I owned one, its now the car that I'd be embarassed to be seen in. Why did it need a big Pontiac schnoz?

Fusion is the example to follow. They need their cars to be like it. Usable, but sporty.

[cip]

Sixcav, on Oct 29 2006, 10:41 PM, said:

Personally I don't think the fact that the 3.0 V6 is underpowered as compared to the rest of the segment is that big an issue to people who buy these kinds of cars. Most people don't buy a family sedan with the notion of drag racing their neighbor Bob to the corner market you know. What I think is the big problem with the 500 is the way it looks. It's down right boring. I'm not alone in that point of view either.
http://cars.about.co...r/05_500awd.htm
http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/0410_...d/interior.html
http://www.automobil...avalon_comparo/

This is what is really driving customers away from the 500 folks. It's ugly. It needs a redesign. From a technological point of view the car is s smash hit. They could re-tune the 3.0 V6 if they wanted to and bump the hp up to 230 hp easily and it would be well within range of the segment. The 3.5 will be a fine sub for it. But trust me, the motor is not what is driving buyers away from this car. It's the narcoleptic design that is. It needs a sheet metal redesign in the worst way, some attention to detail in the interior and that's all. Then it would be a stellar car.

[DearbornDerek]

O.K. I'm not going to try and start an argument....but has any one that is saying the 500 is underpowered even drove one? I got mine back in August and have NO complaints about power. I would not call it boring...average maybe. The sad thing is that when my friends and co-workers see the car thier reaction is "that's a 500? wow it's better looking than I heard, how come thier not selling?" This car has everything you need...people just don't know about it. The sad thing is I almost did not get the 500. I did not really consider it because of the negative talk about it in here. All of this coming from someone that prefers a good truck to a car any day. My advice is to ignore ALL of the people talking crap about this car because they must not have ever been in one. Hell, I've got to fight the wife about who is going to drive it.

[cip]

You guys bitchin' about the 500 are nuts. Sure it isn't a Panther body but it has a much room inside and feels a lot more solid. I know, I've driven them all. The 3.0 isn't a hi-po engine but it gets the job done with decent mileage and good performance. A 427 Galaxie it's not!! Complain about the CVT, you don't know what you're talking about. It's a good trans and better than the 6 spped. Too big? you've got to be kidding. There is plenty of room but the car NEVER feels big. It handles and stops well, is quiet as a mouse, and the fit and finish on the 2 I had was almost perfect. Ugly? maybe but so is the Avalon and Camry (except for the newest ones)but no one complains about them. I wish Ford updated the styling a lot sooner than next year. John DeLorean said you can sell a young mans car to an old guy but not the other way around. I wish Ford would take his advice.

[630land]

OK, the main reason the 500 is sacring some buyers off, it is that is is a Full Sized car with a Full sized price. They expect a $17K price tag and scream, "What 25K$, no way". The Fusion should have came out first, and then the 500 as a step up.


It is not a mid sized car, it has more room than a Vic. But people are told by the media it's a "Taurus replacement". {but the same media doesn't call the Avalon a 'mid size'} Alan Mulally is impressed with it and wants to improve it, so it is not going anywhere. Best if it was gaven the name Galaxie 500.

This post has been edited by 630land: 30 October 2006 - 01:11 AM

[jpd80]

While Fusion is perfect for its market slot, the existance of 500 and Crown Victoria along side each other confuses people. Ford needs a platform that transcends all of the FWD/RWD/AWD markets and has wheelbase variants to include the town car. Instead of developing towards a common platform, Ford have been stuck in neutral with the now dated Crown Victoria. While the 500 eclipses the cabin dimensions, it repels CV buyers because its FWD and styled differently. A smarter move would have been to develop a RWD V8 variant of the 500 and call it "Crown Victoria", heck throw it on a BOF if that's what the market wants. That would allow two wheelbases longer than 500.