Blue Oval Staff Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 article link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluecon Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Could also be the problem with the Detroit Lions. They keep hiring football guys. And nothing ever gets better. Maybe they should hire a hockey coach, or a baseball coach. Or is the problem associated with the common denominator? (William and Bill jr.=common denominator.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Could also be the problem with the Detroit Lions.They keep hiring football guys. And nothing ever gets better. Maybe they should hire a hockey coach, or a baseball coach. Or is the problem associated with the common denominator? (William and Bill jr.=common denominator.) I just realized the significance of your avatar: it's your self portrait ... Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanatWork Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Could also be the problem with the Detroit Lions.They keep hiring football guys. And nothing ever gets better. Maybe they should hire a hockey coach, or a baseball coach. Or is the problem associated with the common denominator? (William and Bill jr.=common denominator.) Actually, CNN/SI had a story recently that pointed out Bill Jr.'s desire to fire Millen and move past the personell that have given the team its current odor. Bill Sr. disagreed. Not so common, but hey-that'd ruin (inaccurate) stereotyping of the Fords, and what fun is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluecon Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Millen or anybody else the Lions have never won a playoff game in the 40 plus years the Fords have owned them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero1953 Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 article link Mulally is exactly the kind of manager Ford has always needed. Thank goodness he drives a Lexus, it shows respect for engineering and value. If he has the scope of responsibility he needs he will be the most important change to Ford since the Whiz Kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Sheaves Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 While I may not agree on the significance of the Lexus, I DO agree with the conclusions of this article. Very good read. Best regards... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluecon Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 I just realized the significance of your avatar: it's your self portrait ... Igor Maybe a Slobadian might think so. In the USA it is a warning that there are ostriches about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 (edited) a Slobadian you belong next to Bush who greeted all the "Slovakians" in Ljubljana ... he at least greeted an actual nation - although a wrong one. In the USA it is a warning that there are ostriches about. I see exactly one otrich around here ... you. (SixCav comes close) Igor Edited September 13, 2006 by igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03 LS Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Richard, best rant you had since you started this bloggy thingy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemiman Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Good article! Don't agree on all fronts, but you make some sense on most points. Now, what exactly has been wrong at Ford over the past 1-5 yrs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 (edited) While I may not agree on the significance of the Lexus, I DO agree with the conclusions of this article. Very good read. Best regards... Thanks... Sorry I got snippy over the whole 'show me the patents' thing. I just like my 'opinion' clearly labeled as such, and factual reporting/research labeled as such too. Art History prof. drummed that into my head very early in my freshman year in college. BTW, I was being tongue and cheek about the Lexus. Good article! Don't agree on all fronts, but you make some sense on most points. Now, what exactly has been wrong at Ford over the past 1-5 yrs? Thanks, Two things at Ford, the last 1-5 years: 1) failure to properly estimate the scope of the problem (which led to half-measures back in '02/'03) 2) failure to impose accountability. Bill Ford would make an excellent caretaker CEO. If things were not broken, he would be an ideal leader. As it was, in 2001, there were 1) no volunteers for the job, and 2) no one at the company even remotely as qualified as Bill Ford. However, his actions displayed a certain hesitancy, a certain sense that he felt he was walking on eggshells, that he couldn't disrupt things too much, and a naive (as we see now) belief that things could be solved by what were only partial measures. Had gas and materials prices not spiked, Ford's recovery would be fait accompli, and it would have been very deceptive, as it would not be a recovery that truly addressed the structural weaknesses at Ford. There's a new opportunity at Ford, with Mulally, to impose change that needs to be imposed. Edited September 13, 2006 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluecon Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 you belong next to Bush who greeted all the "Slovakians" in Ljubljana ... he at least greeted an actual nation - although a wrong one. I see exactly one otrich around here ... you. (SixCav comes close) Igor Sorry--I meant Elbonian. I thought you were an Elbonian. The Elbonians hail from Elbonia, a small mud-covered fourth-world country that both Dilbert and Dogbert have visited for various reasons. I use it whenever I need a country that is "foreign" to all Dilbert readers. People from a fictional Fourth World nation, used as a parody of outsourcing. Their culture is radically different from western culture, and their patriarchy often annoys Alice. Their country is covered in waist-deep mud which they keep wet using expensive bottled water as revealed in one strip. At one point, the Elbonians start a war with France in order to make money on the scrap metal acquired from the bombs France drops. Elbonian's head garments, long beards, male-centric culture, and technological underdevelopment suggest it is largely modeled after a third world Islamic society, such as Afghanistan, and are also similar to Russia in their hats and former communism. Scott Adams stated in Seven Years of Highly Defective People that Elbonia was created to allow for a foreign nation inoffensive to people outside the United States, and is based on the average American's perception of any country without cable TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 (edited) Everybody applaud Bluecon .. he learned how to copy and paste from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilbert (scroll down to Elbonia section) One thing he did not learn in school is how to cite his sources ... ----------------------------------------------------- and you are far from your shitty fan: 1) you are either trying to extinghuish your idiocy by scraimbling to explain that the product of your ignorant ass "Slobadia" was in fact a mumbled "Elbonia" (Not likely) - simply trying to hide the extent to which you are braind dead 2) or you are sinply tryiung to pretend that calling any foreigner an "Elbonian" is somehow OK - because we are the powerful west, and we have the G-d's right to make fun of everythig and ecveryone foreign. Go fuck youself you redneck. Igor Edited September 13, 2006 by igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Sheaves Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Thanks... Sorry I got snippy over the whole 'show me the patents' thing. I just like my 'opinion' clearly labeled as such, and factual reporting/research labeled as such too. Art History prof. drummed that into my head very early in my freshman year in college. BTW, I was being tongue and cheek about the Lexus....... Not a problem...30 years in this business has taught me to be thick skinned (and thick headded.... ) Best regards.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sixcav Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 (edited) You know what's funny about the difference between this forum and toyota and honda forums? They actually recognize why Ford and GM are in a big pile of shit and don't have the shoes for it. Here you guys just make excuses. Two things at Ford, the last 1-5 years: 1) failure to properly estimate the scope of the problem (which led to half-measures back in '02/'03) 2) failure to impose accountability. I totally agree with point # 1 Richie. But with respect to point # 2, do they really have time to start pointing fingers and playing the blame game internally at Ford? Is that going to resolve the problems? How about they just recognize where the problems are and set about fixing it regardless of how it was made? Fix the problems, then worry about who was responsible for it. By the way Richie I wasn't implying that your specific post was an attempt to make excuses. That was an "in general" sort of thing. I know I have read on this very forum how this Mulally man isn't a "Car Guy" and because of that he wasn't fit to run Ford. Like any of you here are qualified for the job. Look I don't know what's going to happen with Ford. I think the odds are they will continue to lose market share for years to come. Toyota will take them from the # 2 spot. Truth be told they really already have. Their car sales are increasing dramatically over Fords. So to is Hyundai. A lot of people don't realize that when Ford says they were # 2 in August because they sold 250 + thousand cars and Toyota only sold 240 + thousand that Ford is counting their sales from Ford, Lincoln, Mercury, Volvo, Jaguar and Land Rover combined while Toyota is only counting Toyota and Lexus. So it's taking Ford 6 car compaines to sell 13 thousand more cars than Toyota does with just 2. Not so good. Since you guys are so hung up and comparing apples to apples I wonder how Ford would stack up if you compared the monthly sales of just Ford to just Toyota. I'm guessing Toyota cleans the floor with a Ford mop on that match up. But I haven't looked at it so who knows. Maybe some of you apples to apples guys can look that up. P.S. Just because it got me curious and for shits and giggles I looked it up and the score was Ford 214 thousand vehicles Toyota 209 thousand vehicles So Ford wins that one. Good. But close fellas, very close. Edited September 13, 2006 by Sixcav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DearbornDerek Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Millen or anybody else the Lions have never won a playoff game in the 40 plus years the Fords have owned them. Not that it matters,but...... The Lions "Restored the Roar" in 1991, winning a franchise-record 12 regular season games. Riding a tide of emotion after guard Mike Utley's paralyzing neck injury, Detroit defeated Dallas, 38-6, in the Lions' first Silverdome playoff contest. The victory gave the Lions a berth in the NFC Championship Game, where Detroit fell to the eventual Super Bowl Champion Washington Redskins. http://www.detroitlions.com/document_displ...m?cont_id=23775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 (edited) The article is the best I ever saw RJ write. Seems that some car fans only see black and white. Same analogy with cars, either a car is a "High Po" warrior or its a 'grocery getter'. No in between. Some expected Bob Lutz to jump to Ford, and declare that it is "1964 again", with RWD all over. Others expect Ford to make exact copies of Camry, Corolla, and Yaris with only Hybrid power. Maybe getting someone who isn't emotionally attached to 'the good old days', 'primered Hot Rods with carbed V8's', or 'anything imported' will be a good thing. See the products from a versed modern customer point of view, not try to turn back time, re-invent the wheel, or just lie there and let Japan Inc run the world. But do something! Edited September 13, 2006 by 630land Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 But with respect to point # 2, do they really have time to start pointing fingers and playing the blame game internally at Ford? Is that going to resolve the problems? Imposing accountability and pointing fingers are two different things. Accountability means that if you say you can do "x", you get in trouble if you fail to do "x". It doesn't mean that if you fail to do "x", you can get out of trouble by blaming someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sixcav Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 Imposing accountability and pointing fingers are two different things. Accountability means that if you say you can do "x", you get in trouble if you fail to do "x". It doesn't mean that if you fail to do "x", you can get out of trouble by blaming someone else. LOL, Ok man. I just keep envisioning that scene in K-19 where the Russian admiral is yelling. "Who is responsible for this fuse blowing!!! I wan't a name!!!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinb120 Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 Richard, best rant you had since you started this bloggy thingy. I agree, great article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 I agree, I've been looked down on by 'car guys' since I don't drag race on the streets, own a manual trans car anymore, add 'mods' to my car, or read the monthy rags cover to cover. The old definitions do not apply for anything in the car biz anymore! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSenstad Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 Just tell me that Ford has car guys in the pipeline that actually do the thinking and the implementing rather than the managing and I might be happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rougesteel Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 Everybody applaud Bluecon .. he learned how to copy and paste from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilbert (scroll down to Elbonia section) One thing he did not learn in school is how to cite his sources ... ----------------------------------------------------- and you are far from your shitty fan: 1) you are either trying to extinghuish your idiocy by scraimbling to explain that the product of your ignorant ass "Slobadia" was in fact a mumbled "Elbonia" (Not likely) - simply trying to hide the extent to which you are braind dead 2) or you are sinply tryiung to pretend that calling any foreigner an "Elbonian" is somehow OK - because we are the powerful west, and we have the G-d's right to make fun of everythig and ecveryone foreign. Go fuck youself you redneck. Igor Igor chill ..... it was a great post until you took it into the gutter with the name calling... even if it was quality name callin Right out of a sceene from the Movie " Good Will Hunting" the debate in the Harvard Bar ..... do you like apples well Igor got Bluecon's number how do like those apples .... too funny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dford36 Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 Thank God Mulally drives a Lexus. Maybe he can finally explain to Ford why people stopped buying Fords!! I'd love a compare/contrast with him and the engineers comparing his Lexus vs a Town Car. Or an ES350 to the MKZ. I hope he drives that Lexus to work every day until Ford develops something comparable for him to replace it with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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