rmc523 Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 http://www.leftlanenews.com/nhtsa-investig...ion-defect.html Following the recall of 1.1 million minivans last month for a faulty cruise control switch, Ford may be forced to recall another 205,000 vans due to a potentially faulty transmission. The National Highway Safety Traffic Administration has opened an investigation involving 2004-05 Ford Freestar and Mercury Monterey minivans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 I'm guessing these are the units coupled with the 4.2L V6? I'm guessing since it only reflected those years, and not prior... Which tranny did the 4.2L have? I think the was the only FWD application the 4.2L had didnt it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 I'm guessing these are the units coupled with the 4.2L V6? I'm guessing since it only reflected those years, and not prior... Which tranny did the 4.2L have? I think the was the only FWD application the 4.2L had didnt it ? Both the 3.9L and 4.2L engines on these vehicles were paired to the 4F50N tranny (essentially the same as the AX4N). It seems that the AX series will never shed its reputation for poor durability... Looks like the primary culprit is the torque converter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 (edited) Man those minivans are the bain of Ford's existence, hopefully a big chunk of them were taken off the road with "Cash for Clunkers". I was so happy when they pulled the plug on these things. Edited November 18, 2009 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Both the 3.9L and 4.2L engines on these vehicles were paired to the 4F50N tranny (essentially the same as the AX4N). It seems that the AX series will never shed its reputation for poor durability... Roger ! The AX4S had a high failure rate in the Taurus and even higher in the Windstar, even with the weaker 3.8L engine. Looks like the primary culprit is the torque converter. I addition to the torque converter, there seems to have been a high failure rate on the input shaft. Biggest customer complaint is the cost to remove and replace the transmission, because the recommended procedure is to drop the entire engine/transmission cradle. I'm not certain what NHSTA can legally do. Most failures occur well after the warranty expires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Man those minivans are the bain of Ford's existence, hopefully a big chunk of them were taken off the road with "Cash for Clunkers". I was so happy when they pulled the plug on these things. The Freestar was such a joke. Both Chrysler and Honda had previously introduce fold-into-floor seating a year or 2 before before Freestar hit the market. Ford did not see that as an important feature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 The Freestar was such a joke. Both Chrysler and Honda had previously introduce fold-into-floor seating a year or 2 before before Freestar hit the market. Ford did not see that as an important feature. Just like the single-slider debacle. That's when someone should have taken Product Planning out behind the woodshed . . . What a saga. Ford invents the minivan, and refuses to build it. Then the single-slider. Then seat stowage. Add a marvelous motor and a terrific transmission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 How does a crappy transmission earn a recall from the The National Highway Safety Traffic Administration ? That's pure bull shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OAC_Sparky Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 How does a crappy transmission earn a recall from the The National Highway Safety Traffic Administration ? That's pure bull shit. You wouldn't think so if it crapped out in the middle lane of an interstate with an 18-wheeler on your ass. I would call that a potential safety issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVTCobra Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 I wish they would do the same for the CD4E in the Escape/Tribute. The transmission on my 2001 Tribute with 70k miles crapped out while trying to merge onto a parkway. The transmission blew the band for 2nd and OD so it downshifted from 3rd to 1st. That was an experience! Like OAC_Sparky said, that would not have been good if there was traffic immediately behind me upon merging. A $1900 rebuild later and all is good again. The shop had to make modifications so the line pressure would not spike and break the band again in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggs32 Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 The NHTSA never made Honda recall their trannies in the last gen Accord, Odyssey, Pilot, etc. When those broke the drive wheels locked up and there were several compliants about that happening on the highway. Imagine being behind a vehicle that slams on the brakes but no brake lights light up to warn you. Anyway, in light of there being no recall Honda did extend the warranty on those trannies to something like 10 years and 100,000 miles. My sister had an '05 Freestar that needed a tranny replacement twice. If this recall does happen would she be eligible for money back even if she doesn't own it anymore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 and break the band again in the future. Does Ford make an automatic that uses "bands"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveTaurus Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 (edited) Just like the single-slider debacle. That's when someone should have taken Product Planning out behind the woodshed . . . What a saga. Ford invents the minivan, and refuses to build it. Then the single-slider. Then seat stowage. Add a marvelous motor and a terrific transmission. And, The Freestar's awkward rear 2 rows seating position, so low, tiny and non flexible. The smallish interior compare to other minivans which have the same length. The worst fuel economy minivan. The extreme outdated dash board center controls reflected the 70's. The interior side panels were ugly! The one and only Freestar TV ad was a joke. To show the new 2nd row flip seats, they kidded the Caravan for not able to flip, but at the same time the Caravan/TownandCountrys' Stow-N-Go 2nd row seat just came to the market. End up, Ford had to cut the Freestar ad, no more ad for the Freestar! :reading: p.s. The unusable first row console; what was that.... Edited November 18, 2009 by LoveTaurus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkisler Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 The AX4N/S and it's evil spawn was/is responsible for causing Ford customers to vacate the premises. And particularly when combined with that gem of an engine, the 3.8/4.2l with failing head gaskets. When you're arguing about the priority of replacing a transmission, it's hard to put a number on the financial effect of sub-par quality, so the decision looks like it's pure cost -- new transmission, lots of engineering, new facilities, etc. But there is an opportunity cost in lost customers. I'm betting that the knock-on effect of this lousy box is certainly in the hundreds of millions of dollars from customers who will never return (but I have no data on which to base this statement). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 (edited) Total transmission failure,at highway speeds will make a lot of noise,and rarely some debris on the highway...but a loss of control,I ain't buying it...It would be more of a safety issue for other cars dodging debris and fluid if the case actually busted...which is rare. Usually a transmission failure happens at slower speeds and is a gradual failure. Edited November 18, 2009 by ironhorse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 How does a crappy transmission earn a recall from the The National Highway Safety Traffic Administration ? That's pure bull shit. It's not a recall. It is an "investigation". BTW, I concur. Recalls only happen when there is a safety issue (cruise control brake pressure switch that could cause a fire) or something that would cause excess emissions (which is handled by the EPA). The sad part about this whole issue was Ford basically buried it head in the sand while all of this was happening. Management position was that they had no data. Of course not ! None of their procedures or databases are designed to accumulate failures after the warranty period expired, hence no data on vehicle over 50,000 miles. The owners have to shoulder part of the blame. The whole AX4* family had a recommended ATF change interval of 30,000 miles. Few owners even check the level of their fluid in 30,000 miles let alone change it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 (edited) Total transmission failure,at highway speeds will make a lot of noise,and rarely some debris on the highway...but a loss of control,I ain't buying it...It would be more of a safety issue for other cars dodging debris and fluid if the case actually busted...which is rare. Usually a transmission failure happens at slower speeds and is a gradual failure. As I mentioned before, broken input shaft is a common failure and there is nothing gradual about that. Edited November 19, 2009 by theoldwizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang84isu Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 We had a '96 Windstar...second worst vehicle my family had ever owned behind an '88 Dodge Colt. for a while it seemed like it was at the dealership every other week. Their 2004 Explorer 4.0 has been much more reliable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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