[Edstock]

Trimdingman, on Nov 5 2009, 07:21 PM, said:

How old are you? I feel like I am arguing with a kid.

LOL — you seem to have a comprehension problem, so anything's possible on your end.

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Make a case for big government and give me an example of how well it is working out.

This is typical of your mind-set. I have never advocated "big" government per se. I do advocate a government big enough to meet the needs of its citizens. That's what Ollie was referring to, by the way. You may not be able to discern the difference, alas.

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E.I. is just another tool of Big Government to control those pesky "masses".

Please supply details on how E.I. is "another tool of Big Government to control those pesky "masses". Otherwise, all we have here is yet another brain-fart.

[J-150]

I would like to see EI overhauled. Raise the annual cap beyond 40-something.Charge it on every penny you make.

Then allow claimants to claim to 55% of ALL of their earnings, not the ceiling they have on it now.

Then it would be more usable to more people.

[Trimdingman]

J-150, on Nov 6 2009, 07:54 PM, said:

I would like to see EI overhauled. Raise the annual cap beyond 40-something.Charge it on every penny you make.

Then allow claimants to claim to 55% of ALL of their earnings, not the ceiling they have on it now.

Then it would be more usable to more people.

Money that you pay into EI is not taxed. Your income over 40 thousand is taxed to the max. They are still getting their money. The payouts are minimized and the profits to the government are maximized. That is how the system works. EI is all about the government using you. Think of the government as the Mafia. EI is one of their protection rackets.

[Trimdingman]

Edstock, on Nov 6 2009, 12:14 AM, said:

LOL — you seem to have a comprehension problem, so anything's possible on your end.


This is typical of your mind-set. I have never advocated "big" government per se. I do advocate a government big enough to meet the needs of its citizens. That's what Ollie was referring to, by the way. You may not be able to discern the difference, alas.


Please supply details on how E.I. is "another tool of Big Government to control those pesky "masses". Otherwise, all we have here is yet another brain-fart.

EI keeps many people dependent on the government, just like you may keep the little birdies in your back yard over the winter with your bird feeder. It causes them to lose their natural abilities of survival. People got by just fine before the government stuck its nose in. The unemployment rate was lower. If you are on EI. you give up much of your dignity and freedom as you crawl and dance for the government to get your own money. It would be better if you were forced to plan your own affairs instead of being herded like cows and patronized by some useless beaurocrat at an EI office living off your pay deductions. I HATE THE GOVERNMENT. I am still allowed to say that, but I don't know for how much longer, the way we are going.

[J-150]

Trimdingman, on Nov 6 2009, 03:19 PM, said:

Money that you pay into EI is not taxed. Your income over 40 thousand is taxed to the max. They are still getting their money. The payouts are minimized and the profits to the government are maximized. That is how the system works. EI is all about the government using you. Think of the government as the Mafia. EI is one of their protection rackets.

Trim,

there is a cap of $40something in annual earnings in which you have EI withdrawn.

There is in turn a cap of 55% (or 60% or whatever the hell it is) based on that annual number.

I am suggesting that those making more than $40k have EI deducted on ALL of the annual earnings and then the EI claim becomes 55% of that.

So if you make $100k, then you are charged EI deduction on the entire 100. You then get to claim 55% of the 100k should you find yourself out of work.

[Edstock]

Trimdingman, on Nov 6 2009, 04:29 PM, said:

EI keeps many people dependent on the government,

No, unemployent keeps many people dependent on the government.

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People got by just fine before the government stuck its nose in.

If starving and being homeless is getting by "just fine", you're probably right.

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The unemployment rate was lower.

Prove it. Otherwise we have yet another Trimding Brain-Fart

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If you are on EI. you give up much of your dignity and freedom as you crawl and dance for the government to get your own money.

Please itemize how dignity and freedom are given up, and exactly how does the government make you "crawl and dance". Otherwise, all we have is yet another Trimding Brain-Fart.

Also, how do you "crawl and dance"? Can you do both at once? Or do you crawl first, then dance, or dance first, then crawl? :hysterical:

[J-150]

Trimdingman, on Nov 6 2009, 03:29 PM, said:

EI keeps many people dependent on the government, just like you may keep the little birdies in your back yard over the winter with your bird feeder. It causes them to lose their natural abilities of survival. People got by just fine before the government stuck its nose in. The unemployment rate was lower. If you are on EI. you give up much of your dignity and freedom as you crawl and dance for the government to get your own money. It would be better if you were forced to plan your own affairs instead of being herded like cows and patronized by some useless beaurocrat at an EI office living off your pay deductions. I HATE THE GOVERNMENT. I am still allowed to say that, but I don't know for how much longer, the way we are going.

so where does it end Trim?

we get rid of socialized medicine next? how about all private colleges and universities? No welfare. No free highways (all toll roads)

Here's another. How about the government has no labour laws. Including those that support organized labour.

Or are you selective about government interferance as long as it benefits YOU personally?

[Trimdingman]

J-150, on Nov 6 2009, 08:48 PM, said:

so where does it end Trim?

we get rid of socialized medicine next? how about all private colleges and universities? No welfare. No free highways (all toll roads)

Here's another. How about the government has no labour laws. Including those that support organized labour.

Or are you selective about government interferance as long as it benefits YOU personally?

Now you are talking my language. I would even go further, much further.

Getting rid of socialized medicine is a no-brainer. I would eliminate over 90% of laws, simplify the legal gobbletygook. I would eliminate so much government that income tax could be gotten rid of. There would be so much prosperity that the rest of government would probably be strung up when the people realized how the government has kept them enslaved and in poverty. With the advances in technology that we now see, the work week should be maybe two days, at a comfortable wage, and 100% employment. Because of government, we have to slave for 40 or more hours a week, and many people don't even earn enought to live on. The government has them all brainwashed to believe that things would be even worse without government. Government is the cancer that is destroying us, just like it destroyed the USSR.

[J-150]

Trimdingman, on Nov 6 2009, 04:05 PM, said:

Now you are talking my language. I would even go further, much further.

Getting rid of socialized medicine is a no-brainer. I would eliminate over 90% of laws, simplify the legal gobbletygook. I would eliminate so much government that income tax could be gotten rid of. There would be so much prosperity that the rest of government would probably be strung up when the people realized how the government has kept them enslaved and in poverty. With the advances in technology that we now see, the work week should be maybe two days, at a comfortable wage, and 100% employment. Because of government, we have to slave for 40 or more hours a week, and many people don't even earn enought to live on. The government has them all brainwashed to believe that things would be even worse without government. Government is the cancer that is destroying us, just like it destroyed the USSR.

Trim, without government, you'd be working 80 hours per week and only making about $10/hour.

Actually no. That isn't true. Without government interference, Ford would have closed down OAP/OTP a very long time ago.


And you would be working at 7-11

This post has been edited by J-150: 06 November 2009 - 04:31 PM

[Trimdingman]

J-150, on Nov 6 2009, 09:30 PM, said:

Trim, without government, you'd be working 80 hours per week and only making about $10/hour.

Actually no. That isn't true. Without government interference, Ford would have closed down OAP/OTP a very long time ago.


And you would be working at 7-11

Government permeates all aspects of your life. Government accounts for much of your labor, and much of the cost of everything that you buy. Government is mostly waste. Without government, there would be prosperity. It was big government which caused the USSR to collapse. We are not far behind.

[suv_guy_19]

Trimdingman, on Nov 7 2009, 12:00 PM, said:

Without government, there would be prosperity.

Look around you. Even with the downturn that we've just come through, prosperity exists right here, right now. Could there be more? Maybe, but we aren't going to get there through anarchy.

This post has been edited by suv_guy_19: 07 November 2009 - 01:03 PM

[Trimdingman]

suv_guy_19, on Nov 7 2009, 07:02 PM, said:

Look around you. Even with the downturn that we've just come through, prosperity exists right here, right now. Could there be more? Maybe, but we aren't going to get there through anarchy.

I don't see prosperity. Even Cubans think they are prosperous because that is all they know. I think that we have anarchy now, as far as crime is concerned. It is still livable, but without laws, there would be more fear of committing robbery and mayhem if you had to worry about a reckoning instead of a slight possibility of doing some soft jail time. You don't go snooping around peoples' property at night if there is a high probability of getting your head blown off. If all of the money that goes into crime prosecution was returned to taxpayers, the economy would boom. Multiply that by all of the other useless government programs and you are talking serious wealth for everybody. Things were good until that old lady swallowed that fly. Do you understand my analogy?

[J-150]

Trimdingman, on Nov 7 2009, 01:00 PM, said:

Government permeates all aspects of your life. Government accounts for much of your labor, and much of the cost of everything that you buy. Government is mostly waste. Without government, there would be prosperity. It was big government which caused the USSR to collapse. We are not far behind.

sorry Trim. Without government there would be no middle class.

show me any economics theory out there that will prove that a society without government interference would support a middle class.


Again Trim, without government interference there would have never been an Auto Pact. There would be no support for organized labour. Or maximum work days or anything.

It would be 1890 all over again. 12 hour days, 6 days a week for a few bucks an hour.


Without government interference YOU would not have the life you have now. You would be far worse off.

[Trimdingman]

J-150, on Nov 7 2009, 10:44 PM, said:

sorry Trim. Without government there would be no middle class.

show me any economics theory out there that will prove that a society without government interference would support a middle class.


Again Trim, without government interference there would have never been an Auto Pact. There would be no support for organized labour. Or maximum work days or anything.

It would be 1890 all over again. 12 hour days, 6 days a week for a few bucks an hour.


Without government interference YOU would not have the life you have now. You would be far worse off.

Maybe there is need for some government, but there comes a point where it becomes detrimental to society. We are way past that point. Every problem is "solved" by adding more government. Maybe government is the problem, and maybe we should start looking at ways of solving problems by doing away with government. The other way just gets stickier and stickier.

The Auto Pact is gone. Our employment levels in the auto industry have been above those mandated by the Auto pact, before the Auto Pact, during the Auto Pact, and after the Auto Pact. All the Auto Pact did was to employ useless beaurocrats.

Without government payroll deductions, we would have more buying power. Goods would cost a lot less without government taking a cut every step of the way. I would say prices would be over 50% less. The additional spending would cause labor shortages, and force wages up. Let's cut government down to size and find ways to do away with it instead of looking for ways to increase it.