[matthewq4b]

Quote

CAW: Ford's Oakville plant to be idled for one week due to parts shortage

The temporary work suspension comes as the Canadian Auto Workers and Ford are preparing to resume formal contract negotiations on Monday.

Ford Idles Oakville

Seems a little too conveinent to me.

I wonder if Ford is getting ready to play hardball with the CAW.

Matthew

[ausrutherford]

Might come back to hurt with MkT just starting and Edges are nowhere to be found.

[RichardJensen]

Doubt it.

Ford doesn't deal with unions this way.

[focus05]

matthewq4b, on Oct 23 2009, 11:35 AM, said:

Ford Idles Oakville

Seems a little too conveinent to me.

I wonder if Ford is getting ready to play hardball with the CAW.

Matthew

They've been having parts shortages since August, if I'm not mistaken. This is not typical Ford tactics for negotiations. I think you're seeing demons where there are just issues in the supply chain.

[Austin]

matthewq4b, on Oct 23 2009, 02:35 PM, said:

Ford Idles Oakville

Seems a little too conveinent to me.

I wonder if Ford is getting ready to play hardball with the CAW.

Matthew

No connection I think.

The biggest issue for the CAW by far is the fact that St. Thomas is going down for the count.

[matthewq4b]

RichardJensen, on Oct 23 2009, 12:46 PM, said:

Doubt it.

Ford doesn't deal with unions this way.

Maybe int he states they don't but here is a different matter.


This not the first time Ford of Canada has temporarily idled a plant/s during negotiations.
Ford Canada did this with when they shuttered OTP right at contract negotiations with the CAW and was looking for hand outs from the Ontario Gov't and the Feds to update the rest of Oakville for the D3's. They basically held the CAW and the Gov't at ransom and said if we do not get AB&C Oakville will be shuttered for good.
The end result was the Gov't kicked up 200Mil for Oakville to keep the jobs here and the CAW made some concessions as well.
They also temp idled STAP during contract negotiations a couple contracts ago.
And there have been other occasions in the past were this has happened
Usually when Ford and the CAW were at opposite ends of the table such as now.

It usually motivates the CAW to be more reasonable anyway. Cause the last thing either want is for a Gov't mediator to step in and mediate a contract. And Ford Canada has kinda bound themselves to that kind of arbitration when they took public funds for Oakville. There are always those kind of conditions attached to Gov't funds here.

Things work a little differently up here compared to down south in regards to unions and labour and it is not uncommon for these kind of practices to occur here. Employer initiated work slowdowns canceling of overtime and second or third shifts(that can lead to layoffs). All these tactics are common place and legal, and are used to give the union representatives a little shove in the right direction during negotiations.

The Gov't's here are is way more prolabour than in the states but our labour laws have a shortage of work clause that will allow companies to lay off with no repercussions, yes even with unionized labour the only requirement is they can not rehire for that position for a period of 4 weeks I believe. All companies use this clause to dump dead wood or undesirables. But to enact this they must prove that there is a shortage of work. Buy Ford Canada idling Oakville they have now fulfilled that requirement opening the door to layoffs.

Even the most right wing province in the nation is not a right to work province. And when the gov't has to step in to arbitrate which is some thing that that both parties have a right to ask for or the Gov't will step in on it's own when things are stalled, and the arbitrators decision is final. That leaves the company 2 choices agree to it or shut down operations. And the union with no choice but to accept the decision. And yes companies have pulled the plug here due to arbitration.

Our Electricians went through this a few years back when the province stepped in and arbitrated their contract after 2 years with out one. They got the wages increases they were asking for but no retroactive. In the end they/we (I'm still an IBEW Member) ended up no better off than if they had accpeted what was put on the table 2 years earlier by the contractors. And more recently the Dynalife Lab workers had the same done. They got most of what they were asking for but not the amount of retroactive

Union contract negotiantioins here are not as strait forward in the states. And it is bit of a dance. And with Ford idleing Oakville I wonder if they are getting ready to play hardball.




Matthew

[RichardJensen]

Doubt it. They don't have the inventory -stateside- with which to play hardball in Canada.

They're probably sitting on significantly less than a month's worth of MKTs, and no more than a month-month and a half of Flexes, Edges, and MKXs (and that's nationwide aggregate--which likely means local shortages in many areas).

And OTP was going away anyway----the end of the Canadian law requiring local assembly all but signed its death certificate. IMO the situations aren't comparable: OAC is making high margin products in steady (if not high) demand. OTP was a protectionist anachronism that was already unnecessary and slated for termination.

This post has been edited by RichardJensen: 23 October 2009 - 03:02 PM

[matthewq4b]

focus05, on Oct 23 2009, 12:59 PM, said:

They've been having parts shortages since August, if I'm not mistaken. This is not typical Ford tactics for negotiations. I think you're seeing demons where there are just issues in the supply chain.

focus05, on Oct 23 2009, 12:59 PM, said:

They've been having parts shortages since August, if I'm not mistaken. This is not typical Ford tactics for negotiations. I think you're seeing demons where there are just issues in the supply chain.

Well that is good to hear Hopefully Ford is just experiancing supply diffculities and is not getting ready to paly hard ball with the CAW cuase right now that is that last thing either need.

I know the CAW is pretty entrenched in thier postion at the moment. And it is the polar opposit of Ford.
And STAP is going to be a big issue. I know the CAW is looking for a comitment from Ford to keep it open as I'm sure the Ont' and Fed Gov't will be as well. Shuttering STAP would have not been such a big issue if Ford had not taken public money for the upgrades at Oakville.

It is going to be interesting to see how all this play out.

Matthew

[RichardJensen]

matthewq4b, on Oct 23 2009, 03:04 PM, said:

I know the CAW is looking for a comitment from Ford to keep it open

And I'd like to know why.

Economic realities. The NA market as it currently sits is wayyyyyy over capacity, and the Ford CAW workers need to sacrifice just like GM & Chrysler CAW workers and the UAW.

[matthewq4b]

RichardJensen, on Oct 23 2009, 02:01 PM, said:

Doubt it. They don't have the inventory -stateside- with which to play hardball in Canada.

They're probably sitting on significantly less than a month's worth of MKTs, and no more than a month-month and a half of Flexes, Edges, and MKXs (and that's nationwide aggregate--which likely means local shortages in many areas).

And OTP was going away anyway----the end of the Canadian law requiring local assembly all but signed its death certificate. IMO the situations aren't comparable: OAC is making high margin products in steady (if not high) demand. OTP was a protectionist anachronism that was already unnecessary and slated for termination.

Oh absolulty agree OTP was ancient and was a left over from protectionst policies but Ford was not going to make a comperehensive comitment to the rest of Oakville with out consseions from the CAW and funds from the Feds. The shuttering of OTP was the stick used to motivate both. So you can not really say Ford has not done this in the past.

And it it not like either the Flex the MKX or the Edge are brand new products Ford should have been able to sort out all supply issues by now. If not some one has really dropped the ball.


I think this has more to do with the Future of STAP in this round of contract negotiantions or more precisly the jobs at STAP.

Obviously the CAW is looking for a comitment as will be the Gov't the loss of the STAP jobs will hit hard an area already hammered with high uneployment. I'm sure the Fed's will do a cost calculation of having those people added to the uneployment insurance. And the Ontriao Gov,t will be looking at the cost to them as well. This may be the precursur to anouther Gov't secured loan to Ford to either retain STAP for something or to expand Oakville to replace the STAP jobs.

With Ford stating that CAW labour is the most costly in the company just afew weeks back and the well timed idleing of Oakville. Ford Canada could be setting themselves up for a fishing expidition. Not exactly sure for what though.
Possibly for anouther Gov't secured loan.
I suspect that if there is any more gov't money to come down the pipe for them there will most likly be a production percentage attached to it like there was with GMC and Chryco even if it is a secured loan.

It could work out best for every one Ford would be able to get a secured basically no intrest loan to update or upgrade a facility for product. (The only thing comming down the Pipe line is the Transit Connect) And I'm not sure what other regions would be willing cough up hard cash to get it but given past history here the powers that be would more than likly pony up if they could secure that production. Also the CAW would be more willign to give some conssesions to better complete cost wise if a comitment was made to retain the (or some) of job numbers from STAP.

Personally I hope that Ford is positioning themselvs to make a play for what ever they can get in trade for making Canada the home for Transit Connect production.

Matthew

[RichardJensen]

I don't think you can fill a plant with TC volume. I just don't see it being that key a component in Ford's product portfolio, and I don't know what else to put in STAP. Ranger maybe?

Quote

And it it not like either the Flex the MKX or the Edge are brand new products Ford should have been able to sort out all supply issues by now. If not some one has really dropped the ball.

Consider Acme Grommets has a fire that damages their grommet factory limiting their ability to ship grommets on time and in volume to Ajax Widgets, and Ajax Widgets, therefore can't fulfill its commitments to Consolidated Fizzgigs--without which the new Belchfire 8s can't be built.

If the damage can be repaired short term, it's cheaper to idle the plant. Otherwise, you've got to find alternate suppliers.

I'd guess that (given it's a week shutdown), whatever the cause of the delay, it's cheaper to wait out than to circumvent.

And I don't think it's plausible to keep Ernie's Discount Grommets on retainer so that if anything happens at Acme Grommets you can get the same grommets from somewhere else with minimum delay.

Such are the perils of JIT manufacturing.

[matthewq4b]

RichardJensen, on Oct 23 2009, 02:22 PM, said:

And I'd like to know why.

Economic realities. The NA market as it currently sits is wayyyyyy over capacity, and the Ford CAW workers need to sacrifice just like GM & Chrysler CAW workers and the UAW.

For obvious reasons to keep the jobs here. And over the past few years Ford has axed a higher percentage of their production from Canada than either Chrysler or GMC.
So the CAW is fighting to keep as much of it here as they can. And the powers that be will be as well.
As they are going too look like morons after coughing up $200 mil only to have jobs leave any way.

Both the powers that be and the CAW will be willing deal I bet ( the CAW has stated as such) if Ford is willing to make the commitment of keeping production here.


If this goes to arbitration what will most likely happen is the CAW will end up getting most of what they asked for and Ford will end up shuttering STAP and not will not replace those lost with others elsewhere in Canada.

Ford and the CAW are both behind the eight ball here.

The CAW know they really have nothing to lose given the current situation, lose the jobs and gain the wages. Or lose the wages and secure the jobs. 6 of one half a dozen of the other

Ford is in the same boat they either will chop STAP reducing their overhead by not keeping a huge plant open running at a margin of total capacity off set by the higher labour cost at Oakville. Or they will reduce their labour costs making it more viable for them to keep more production capacity here.

So both have nothing to lose or gain really. Given the current situation.

Ford is positioning themselves to have a much leverage as possible for what ever pans out either way.
Question is what exactly is Fords position and how hard are they going to play to get it.
The CAW has made thier position clear (if it is to be believed) and seem prepared to go to the mat with it.

Regardless it is going to be interesting to see how all this play out.


Matthew

[matthewq4b]

RichardJensen, on Oct 23 2009, 02:46 PM, said:

I don't think you can fill a plant with TC volume. I just don't see it being that key a component in Ford's product portfolio, and I don't know what else to put in STAP. Ranger maybe?



Consider Acme Grommets has a fire that damages their grommet factory limiting their ability to ship grommets on time and in volume to Ajax Widgets, and Ajax Widgets, therefore can't fulfill its commitments to Consolidated Fizzgigs--without which the new Belchfire 8s can't be built.

If the damage can be repaired short term, it's cheaper to idle the plant. Otherwise, you've got to find alternate suppliers.

I'd guess that (given it's a week shutdown), whatever the cause of the delay, it's cheaper to wait out than to circumvent.

And I don't think it's plausible to keep Ernie's Discount Grommets on retainer so that if anything happens at Acme Grommets you can get the same grommets from somewhere else with minimum delay.

Such are the perils of JIT manufacturing.

Yes but supposedly this has been an ongoing problem so it probably is not a no notice interruption in supply.
One explanation could be drive-line or suspension component demand for the Taurus cause if it has been since August then that would fit. But even if that was the case it would be a known issue and then you "have to" question the timing of the shut down.
The same week the CAW negotiations start....

Yes maybe is it a coincidence.

But ya got to wonder.
Especially given the past history between Ford Canada and CAW contract negotiations




Matthew

[RichardJensen]

Quote

over the past few years Ford has axed a higher percentage of their production from Canada than either Chrysler or GMC.

They have?

[fastime]

RichardJensen, on Oct 23 2009, 05:06 PM, said:

They have?

We used to build the F150 and the Lightning in Oakville along with the Windstar / Freestar and 2 shifts of overtime at STAP building the Panther .

This post has been edited by fastime: 23 October 2009 - 04:17 PM

[RichardJensen]

And Chrysler and GM?

[matthewq4b]

RichardJensen, on Oct 23 2009, 03:06 PM, said:

They have?

Yes they have. Both GMC and Chrysler have kept around 20% of their production here Chrysler had more capacity based in Canada than either at one time. Chrysler built about 28% of their vehicles here in 2008. Now they are committed to 20%
GMC is committed to 18% down from the 24% of years past.


The percentage of Fords production in Canada has fallen to just 13% from the 23% it was before the restucture. The loss of STAP will push that down to 8 or 9%.

So ya Ford has drastically cut back their Canadian production and operations.

This is why the CAW is digging in their heels and why there is a bit of a backlash starting here.
We as a nation and the CAW helped Ford out during the restructure. So the CAW and I imagine the powers that be will be hoping and looking looking for some commitment from Ford in keeping near the current level of production capacity and not letting it slide too much further.

Matthew

[matthewq4b]

fastime, on Oct 23 2009, 03:16 PM, said:

We used to build the F150 and the Lightning in Oakville along with the Windstar / Freestar and 2 shifts of overtime at STAP building the Panther .

Do not forget the recent loss of Essex Aluminum & Windsor Casting.

And has the the Essex Engine plant opened back up?
It was shuttered in 2007

Last I heard they were still debating over a $30 mill gift from the Gov't to reopen it.



Matthew

This post has been edited by matthewq4b: 23 October 2009 - 04:53 PM

[RichardJensen]

It has to have been almost a decade since Ford had 23% of its production in Canada.

You'd have to go back to a time when the Windstar was actually competitive and the panthers at least remotely plausible for retail.

AFAIK, Ford transferred the Windsor casting employees elsewhere when they closed that plant.

This post has been edited by RichardJensen: 23 October 2009 - 05:27 PM

[Edstock]

RichardJensen, on Oct 23 2009, 06:23 PM, said:

You'd have to go back to a time when the Windstar was actually competitive and the panthers at least remotely plausible for retail.

. . . remotely plausible through retail :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: