NickF1011 Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 (edited) http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/rele...aspx?ID=2009108 Ford receives three awards for the Edge (in a tie); F-150 (in a tie); and Mustang. Jabs first: Uh oh. No Panthers on the individual awards list this year. Odd, wasn't Jaguar near the tops in this survey only a year or two ago?? Land Rover and MINI continue their suckage from last year. The reality of it: Toyota reigns supreme again. :rolleyes: Lincoln dropped like a rock though. Weird. This does seem to exactly mimic the RDS Group study that so many here criticized though. Ford brand was within 3 points of both Honda and Toyota - basically a wash. Edited June 22, 2009 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 What the heck happened to Lincoln?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 What the heck happened to Lincoln?????? Interesting...too many new gadgets for the old farts to figure out? Oh wait...the Town Car didn't receive any new gadgets! (I'm kidding...not intended to offend anyone) Really though, the only major difference between Ford and Lincoln are the levels of electronic gadgetry (and Ford really isn't that far behind Lincoln). All the underpinnings are essentially the same between the two. Maybe they are just attracting more "picky" luxury buyers from other brands? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 (edited) That's about all I could guess--last year was a big 'conquest' year for Lincoln.... Hopefully those flaws haven't set too many buyers against getting another Lincoln. Chevy did pretty good, and whaddya know! Volvo's not sitting down in Land Rover territory (BTW: how many L-R complaints are 'this thing gets terrible gas mileage'?) --- Also, horrific year for Mini---of course, as FJM reminds us, they too took in a lot of conquest buyers last year. I wonder how many of -their- complaints were 'the :censored: speedometer is in the wrong place!!!!' Edited June 22, 2009 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalepsy Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Wow what happened to the Mini... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 22, 2009 Author Share Posted June 22, 2009 Wow what happened to the Mini... Glad to see Smart sucking it up at the bottom too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveTaurus Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 (edited) Part of the survey might deal with how owners' perception of the quality of materials. While Lincoln basically are upgraded Ford, still the build quality, especially interior materials are not up to other luxury brands yet. And those owners probably paid hefty cash for them. I said these, because I usually looked at the Lincolns while my Ford was oil changing at the dealer! Ford still have some work to do on Lincoln ! Just last week inside the mall, a MKS displayed right there front to back with a Cadillac CTS. The interior of the CTS was clearly way better, I thought! Edited June 22, 2009 by LoveTaurus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 22, 2009 Author Share Posted June 22, 2009 Part of the survey might deal with how owners' perception of the quality of materials. While Lincoln basically are upgraded Ford, still the build quality, especially interior materials are not up to other luxury brands yet. And those owners probably paid hefty cash for them. I said these, because I usually looked at the Lincolns while my Ford was oil changing at the dealer! Ford still have some work to do on Lincoln ! I suspect the Navigator is giving Lincoln's overall score beating. The MKS probably ranks best as it is (I suspect that given the Sable's strong showing in the Large Car category). '10 MKZ and refreshed '11 MKX ought to help some I'd hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveTaurus Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 (edited) Are there any pages at J D Power, how they came up with Lincoln's number? Looking at the J D Power Lincoln page, initial quality Towncar is the lowest 2 balls, Navigator is the best 4 balls, MKX 3 and half, MKS MKZ both 2 and a half. Edited June 22, 2009 by LoveTaurus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherminator98 Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Wow what happened to the Mini... IIRC its ALWAYS at the bottom of the list....so I really wonder about rating and the electrons that where moved around to display it here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Wasn't Lincoln like 2nd or 3rd or something like that last year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calypsocoral Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 An interesting little tidbit here-- 2004- Hyundai ties (or comes within a point of doing so... forget which it is) Toyota for the first time in the IQS. 2006- Hyundai surpasses Toyota in the IQS. 2009- Hyundai surpasses Honda(!), whom had previously reigned supreme amongst the mainstream makers in the IQS. I'm telling you guys... Ford needs to take Hyundai every bit as seriously as they do Honda and Toyota. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 No they don't. They need to watch themselves, not Hyundai. They've made leaps that have been every bit as striking as Hyundai's even if they did start later. Take the eye off the ball by trying to imitate the processes at some other corporation instead of improving your own (since it's been established that they are sound and need 'care and feeding' not major overhauls), and you set yourself up for disaster. Whether it's (in my line of work) hopping from one AJAX framework to another, and using any of a variety of website scripting languages, or--in manufacturing--radically altering -your- production methods in order to mimic someone else's..... It's a recipe for disaster. --- I know that's not what you meant calypso, but pardon me if I take a moment to misinterpret your post in order to get up on a soapbox... If a process, ANY PROCESS, is sound--as in capable of delivering quality results in a predictable and competitive fashion--it should be almost never be abandoned. Processes are, frankly, like manufactured goods. If a process -works- it can be fine-tuned, modified, tweaked, updated, upgraded, etc., and it will remain competitive: look no further than Honda for a prime example--Honda, probably the most disciplined corporate example of Demings' theories. Honda's basic QC methodology is one that has grown organically over the years. Does it have its flaws? Yes. But look where Honda's at every year----top of the list, always. Maybe not THE top, but certainly close enough... --- Thus, Ford, having developed processes that enable it to improve faster than the industry as a whole should not be concerned with the mechanics of Hyundai's process, so much as they should be concerned with the mechanics of their own processes. If Mulally does NOTHING else. If Padilla did nothing else. If Kuzak does nothing else, if Hinrichs does nothing else, I hope they've instilled a respect for FORD'S production system, so that IT is what plant managers, engineers, and executives are concerned with--not Toyota's, not Honda's, not Hyundai's--but FORD'S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 No they don't. They need to watch themselves, not Hyundai. They've made leaps that have been every bit as striking as Hyundai's even if they did start later. Take the eye off the ball by trying to imitate the processes at some other corporation instead of improving your own (since it's been established that they are sound and need 'care and feeding' not major overhauls), and you set yourself up for disaster. Whether it's (in my line of work) hopping from one AJAX framework to another, and using any of a variety of website scripting languages, or--in manufacturing--radically altering -your- production methods in order to mimic someone else's..... It's a recipe for disaster. --- I know that's not what you meant calypso, but pardon me if I take a moment to misinterpret your post in order to get up on a soapbox... If a process, ANY PROCESS, is sound--as in capable of delivering quality results in a predictable and competitive fashion--it should be almost never be abandoned. Processes are, frankly, like manufactured goods. If a process -works- it can be fine-tuned, modified, tweaked, updated, upgraded, etc., and it will remain competitive: look no further than Honda for a prime example--Honda, probably the most disciplined corporate example of Demings' theories. Honda's basic QC methodology is one that has grown organically over the years. Does it have its flaws? Yes. But look where Honda's at every year----top of the list, always. Maybe not THE top, but certainly close enough... --- Thus, Ford, having developed processes that enable it to improve faster than the industry as a whole should not be concerned with the mechanics of Hyundai's process, so much as they should be concerned with the mechanics of their own processes. If Mulally does NOTHING else. If Padilla did nothing else. If Kuzak does nothing else, if Hinrichs does nothing else, I hope they've instilled a respect for FORD'S production system, so that IT is what plant managers, engineers, and executives are concerned with--not Toyota's, not Honda's, not Hyundai's--but FORD'S. Well said, and I agree. And you forgot to throw in one of these..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 I prefer this guy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armadamaster Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/rele...aspx?ID=2009108 Jabs first: Uh oh. No Panthers on the individual awards list this year. Was this J.D. Power or Consumer Reports? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 (edited) No they don't. ..... Whole bunch of other stuff ..... ...not Honda's, not Hyundai's--but FORD'S. Well said! Edited June 23, 2009 by fordmantpw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 23, 2009 Author Share Posted June 23, 2009 Was this J.D. Power or Consumer Reports? Just pointing out that Town Car and Grand Marquis were both top tier finishers in the Large Car segment in J.D. Powers' results in years past. That is no longer the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Processes are, frankly, like manufactured goods. If a process -works- it can be fine-tuned, modified, tweaked, updated, upgraded, etc., and it will remain competitive: look no further than Honda for a prime example--Honda, probably the most disciplined corporate example of Demings' theories. Honda's basic QC methodology is one that has grown organically over the years. Does it have its flaws? Yes. But look where Honda's at every year----top of the list, always. Maybe not THE top, but certainly close enough... Interestingly, Honda's situation appears to mirror Ford's. Namely, the mainstream brands - Honda and Ford - score well, but the "upscale" brands - Acura and Lincoln - don't replicate those results, even with all of the platform sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveTaurus Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Interestingly, Honda's situation appears to mirror Ford's. Namely, the mainstream brands - Honda and Ford - score well, but the "upscale" brands - Acura and Lincoln - don't replicate those results, even with all of the platform sharing. Interesting point ! I am thinking that too ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveTaurus Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Wasn't Lincoln like 2nd or 3rd or something like that last year? I remembered J D Power has a few quality lists; 90 days of ownership and 3 years of ownership studies ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Interestingly, Honda's situation appears to mirror Ford's. Namely, the mainstream brands - Honda and Ford - score well, but the "upscale" brands - Acura and Lincoln - don't replicate those results, even with all of the platform sharing. Well, historically, Lincoln hasn't been this far off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 No they don't. They need to watch themselves, not Hyundai. They've made leaps that have been every bit as striking as Hyundai's even if they did start later. Take the eye off the ball by trying to imitate the processes at some other corporation instead of improving your own (since it's been established that they are sound and need 'care and feeding' not major overhauls), and you set yourself up for disaster. Whether it's (in my line of work) hopping from one AJAX framework to another, and using any of a variety of website scripting languages, or--in manufacturing--radically altering -your- production methods in order to mimic someone else's..... It's a recipe for disaster. --- I know that's not what you meant calypso, but pardon me if I take a moment to misinterpret your post in order to get up on a soapbox... If a process, ANY PROCESS, is sound--as in capable of delivering quality results in a predictable and competitive fashion--it should be almost never be abandoned. Processes are, frankly, like manufactured goods. If a process -works- it can be fine-tuned, modified, tweaked, updated, upgraded, etc., and it will remain competitive: look no further than Honda for a prime example--Honda, probably the most disciplined corporate example of Demings' theories. Honda's basic QC methodology is one that has grown organically over the years. Does it have its flaws? Yes. But look where Honda's at every year----top of the list, always. Maybe not THE top, but certainly close enough... --- Thus, Ford, having developed processes that enable it to improve faster than the industry as a whole should not be concerned with the mechanics of Hyundai's process, so much as they should be concerned with the mechanics of their own processes. If Mulally does NOTHING else. If Padilla did nothing else. If Kuzak does nothing else, if Hinrichs does nothing else, I hope they've instilled a respect for FORD'S production system, so that IT is what plant managers, engineers, and executives are concerned with--not Toyota's, not Honda's, not Hyundai's--but FORD'S. RichardJensen, this is an EXCELLENT post on what constitutes a process-honoring culture- a key element of organizational behavior. :yup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 RichardJensen, this is an EXCELLENT post on what constitutes a process-honoring culture- a key element of organizational behavior. :yup: Thanks. I got religion on it a few years ago. It's why I still use the ColdFusion framework I built from scratch instead of trying to learn and integrate the half dozen or so PHP modules it would take to duplicate its functionality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armadamaster Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Just pointing out that Town Car and Grand Marquis were both top tier finishers in the Large Car segment in J.D. Powers' results in years past. That is no longer the case. Oh I know, just seems bizarre to have a J.D. Power report w/o a Panther at the top. Consumer Reports would never list one tops in anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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