Ford to idle Wayne plant

[MKII]

Ford to idle Wayne plant

http://www.freep.com/article/20090311/BUSI...ocus+production

 

Does this mean that the MY2012 C-Max which was slated to be produced at Wayne has been halted?

 

The article states that the plant will be idled, but then goes on to say

“As we cease production of the current model Focus and start production of next model Focus, the people who are on site will keep building the Focus,” said Joe Hinrichs, Ford’s group vice president of global Manufacturing and labor affairs. "

 

So they announce the plant will be idle and at the same time will keep building the Focus.

 

And then goes on to say this “We will continue to use the Wayne Stamping and the Wayne body shop to do some of the sub assemblies.”

 

What does it mean?

[RichardJensen]

It means YOU need to learn more about Ford :poke: :P

 

Wayne Assembly is on the same site as Michigan Truck (formerly Expedition and Navigator). The complex is being reworked and has been renamed Michigan Assembly.

 

If memory serves, Expy and Navi production are moving to Kentucky Truck.

Edited March 11, 2009 by RichardJensen

[NickF1011]

You can take this to mean (if I got the other speculation in other threads right):

 

1. Wayne Assembly is going to close.

 

2. The next gen Focus and C-Max will be assembled elsewhere - Louisville perhaps?

 

3. Wayne's stamping facilities will be integrated into Michigan Truck.

 

Don't shoot the messenger!

[NickF1011]

It means YOU need to learn more about Ford :poke: :P

 

Wayne Assembly is on the same site as Michigan Truck (formerly Expedition and Navigator). The complex is being reworked and has been renamed Michigan Assembly.

 

If memory serves, Expy and Navi production are moving to Kentucky Truck.

 

...or that. :lol:

[RichardJensen]

I don't know where the C-Max type vehicle is going to be assembled.

 

Although it hasn't been confirmed, I think it's a safe bet that Louisville will be retooled for both C3 & CD4, instead of C3 exclusively.

 

I don't know if the Escape will be moved out of Kansas City--nor what would be moved into KC in its place....

[NickF1011]

I don't know if the Escape will be moved out of Kansas City--nor what would be moved into KC in its place....

 

Assuming Escape moves to the new C platform, I could see it being built alongside Kuga, or possibly Transit Connect.

[Footballfan]

Ford to idle Wayne plant

http://www.freep.com/article/20090311/BUSI...ocus+production

 

Does this mean that the MY2012 C-Max which was slated to be produced at Wayne has been halted?

 

The article states that the plant will be idled, but then goes on to say

“As we cease production of the current model Focus and start production of next model Focus, the people who are on site will keep building the Focus,” said Joe Hinrichs, Ford’s group vice president of global Manufacturing and labor affairs. "

 

So they announce the plant will be idle and at the same time will keep building the Focus.

 

And then goes on to say this “We will continue to use the Wayne Stamping and the Wayne body shop to do some of the sub assemblies.”

 

What does it mean?

 

It means Ford Management got what they want in concessions so they are going to start laying people off.

 

Regarding the C-Max, I guess they could still do it at "Michigan Assembly" by using Wayne's old body shop.

[03 LS]

It means Ford Management got what they want in concessions so they are going to start laying people off.

 

Regarding the C-Max, I guess they could still do it at "Michigan Assembly" by using Wayne's old body shop.

Half correct.

 

My understanding from reading several articles on this new agreement is:

Old plan:

- Keep both Michigan Assembly (old Michigan Truck) and Wayne Assembly;

- Both will make C2 based Vehicles.

- Mich. Ass. will be in production 1st, making C2 Focus (Implied to hire more worker)

- Wayne Ass. be retooled after current Focus production is stopped. (Future products not announced)

 

New plan:

- Wayne Ass. idled after in 2010, after current Focus production stops.

- Wayne Ass. workers move to Mich. Ass. to produce C2 Focus.

- Will not lay off (nor will hire more) workers.

- Future C2 based vehicles will be made in Mich. Ass. (along with Loisville?).

- Did not announce what to do with Wayne Ass. in the future.

[Cougarpower]

It looks like the retooling on the old truck plant for C2 might be almost ready and when that happen all production of the focus will be done on the truck plant while they retool Wayne for more C2 variables and have more capacity since Ford its aiming at almost 300k focus a year

[RichardJensen]

If Biker16 is right, Wayne Assembly is very limited in what can be done with it/in it.

 

While I doubt that Ford will tear it down, and don't think they'll sell it, they may end up gutting it and using it for something besides final assembly.

 

If memory serves, they did something quite similar up at Oakville Assembly... Ontario Truck was closed, the building remains, but only part of it is used in conjunction with the Ontario Assembly Complex.

[Biker16]

It means Ford Management got what they want in concessions so they are going to start laying people off.

 

Regarding the C-Max, I guess they could still do it at "Michigan Assembly" by using Wayne's old body shop.

 

Wayne's body shop is a decade behind the much Newer flex body shop in the truck plant.

 

WAP is closing, Wayne's workers will be moved to the truck plant when C2 production begins early next year.

 

We have not determined what the market will look like in 2 years. the gutting and refurbishment of MTP has begun should be completed by years end. Louisville has not start it's retooling yet AFAIK, so if any delay is to happen it will be there. that said the timing looks to be like this. Fall of 2010, 2011 Focus production begins in LAP, spring of 2010 retooling of MTP will be complete and ready for new products. but that could be delayed until Wayne is idled Depending on market conditions.

 

 

we would have a minimum of 400k-500k on 2 shifts at MAP/MTP and LAP, to up to 750k on 3 shift at these plants.

 

Understand the plans for the retooling of these factories were created when gas prices were high and demand for small cars were higher.

[RichardJensen]

Louisville has not start it's retooling yet AFAIK, so if any delay is to happen it will be there. that said the timing looks to be like this.

Logically, one would assume that LAP will be idled when the new Explorer (slated for Chicago) is released. Likely, IMO, early next year.

 

Also retooling is presently underway at Michigan Truck (Ford has even started referring to it as 'Michigan Assembly'). Michigan Truck was, if memory serves, closed in the last quarter or late Q3 last year.

Understand the plans for the retooling of these factories were created when gas prices were high and demand for small cars were higher.

The plans, however, should admit for C/CD flexing.

 

 

 

Also, Ford is not going to abandon their small car focus--not under current management at least. That's been the cardinal sin of the Detroit industry--the tendency to concentrate more and more resources on single sectors that are momentarily popular (minivans, pickups, SUVs)

Edited March 11, 2009 by RichardJensen

[rkisler]

If Biker16 is right, Wayne Assembly is very limited in what can be done with it/in it.

 

While I doubt that Ford will tear it down, and don't think they'll sell it, they may end up gutting it and using it for something besides final assembly.

 

If memory serves, they did something quite similar up at Oakville Assembly... Ontario Truck was closed, the building remains, but only part of it is used in conjunction with the Ontario Assembly Complex.

 

Somewhat similar -- two assembly plants that are in very close proximity.

 

One of the keys to Wayne/MTP that comes through in the announcement. When Wayne went to the Mazda-designed "CT20" Escort, the plant went to a "quasi-Japanese" process. So they added an integrated stamping facility. Unfortunately, they were cramped for space, so the stamping and body shop is on the south side of some RR tracks. The metal is stamped and bodies assembled then they go on a conveyor over to the north side for paint, chassis, trim, and final.

 

In the new arrangement, it looks like Ford will keep the stamping and body shop, then conveyor the cars over to MTP for the paint, chassis, trim, and final.

 

Like Louisville, there is certainly a lot of capability at MTP to do pretty much what you want. Since there were large trucks produced there, the e-coat dip tanks and paint shop can handle anything from a car to a larger-cube vehicle with no sweat. And the rest of the operation is probably going to be all-new anyway.

 

When the change to the new C2 happens, a lot of the cost will actually be in the body shop. Biker has mentioned that the present body shop is not so flexible. He is right, and the conveyor causes a lot of undesirable in-process inventory, so I'm going to guess that the body shop (and also stamping?) for the C2 will be moved across the tracks to MTP. That would allow a seamless move from today's Focus to the C2. If the body shop stays where it is (for cost reasons), then there could continue to be flexibility issues.

 

As for what happens to Wayne assembly, my best guess is it remains idle. If Ford were to really establish some traction in small cars, or if other conditions caused volume to go through the roof and exceed MTP and Louisville capacity, Ford could then consider firing up Wayne again. But that would be expensive, and would result in a lot of hiring, so Ford would have to be very sure before taking this kind of action. I don't see it for the near future. One step at a time. First MTP, then Louisville.

 

**Edit -- I reread the Freep article. It looks like the stamping and some subassemblies will take place in the present body shop. (Sub assemblies can include things like doors, front quarters, etc). But the implication is that the actual body shop will be at MTP. Good solution. You avoid the huge expense of finding space and moving those heavy presses, and it should allow for the establishment of a flexible body shop at MTP.

 

**Second edit -- I just got news that Ford would build an advanced technology vehicle at MAP (the new name for MTP/Wayne). So I guess the electric Focus will be build in-house?

Edited March 11, 2009 by Austin

[Deanh]

Logically, one would assume that LAP will be idled when the new Explorer (slated for Chicago) is released. Likely, IMO, early next year.

 

Also retooling is presently underway at Michigan Truck (Ford has even started referring to it as 'Michigan Assembly'). Michigan Truck was, if memory serves, closed in the last quarter or late Q3 last year.

 

The plans, however, should admit for C/CD flexing.

 

 

 

Also, Ford is not going to abandon their small car focus--not under current management at least. That's been the cardinal sin of the Detroit industry--the tendency to concentrate more and more resources on single sectors that are momentarily popular (minivans, pickups, SUVs)

so, once again seems Ford is ahead of the curve....god I love their pro-active attitude of late....and we ALL know gas prices WILL go up again...maybe even to a point where 4.50 a gallon seems "reasonable".....

[MKII]

Somewhat similar -- two assembly plants that are in very close proximity.

 

One of the keys to Wayne/MTP that comes through in the announcement. When Wayne went to the Mazda-designed "CT20" Escort, the plant went to a "quasi-Japanese" process. So they added an integrated stamping facility. Unfortunately, they were cramped for space, so the stamping and body shop is on the south side of some RR tracks. The metal is stamped and bodies assembled then they go on a conveyor over to the north side for paint, chassis, trim, and final.

 

In the new arrangement, it looks like Ford will keep the stamping and body shop, then conveyor the cars over to MTP for the paint, chassis, trim, and final.

 

Like Louisville, there is certainly a lot of capability at MTP to do pretty much what you want. Since there were large trucks produced there, the e-coat dip tanks and paint shop can handle anything from a car to a larger-cube vehicle with no sweat. And the rest of the operation is probably going to be all-new anyway.

 

When the change to the new C2 happens, a lot of the cost will actually be in the body shop. Biker has mentioned that the present body shop is not so flexible. He is right, and the conveyor causes a lot of undesirable in-process inventory, so I'm going to guess that the body shop (and also stamping?) for the C2 will be moved across the tracks to MTP. That would allow a seamless move from today's Focus to the C2. If the body shop stays where it is (for cost reasons), then there could continue to be flexibility issues.

 

As for what happens to Wayne assembly, my best guess is it remains idle. If Ford were to really establish some traction in small cars, or if other conditions caused volume to go through the roof and exceed MTP and Louisville capacity, Ford could then consider firing up Wayne again. But that would be expensive, and would result in a lot of hiring, so Ford would have to be very sure before taking this kind of action. I don't see it for the near future. One step at a time. First MTP, then Louisville.

 

**Edit -- I reread the Freep article. It looks like the stamping and some subassemblies will take place in the present body shop. (Sub assemblies can include things like doors, front quarters, etc). But the implication is that the actual body shop will be at MTP. Good solution. You avoid the huge expense of finding space and moving those heavy presses, and it should allow for the establishment of a flexible body shop at MTP.

 

Thanks for that explanation Austin, it helps form a picture of how these plants are laid out.

 

Still curious to the one document I read that had Ford C-Max production at Wayne Assembly with PV around 40,000 units. And the same document Michigan Truck once over hauled producing Focus with PV around 200,000 units and Louisville producing Focus with PV 45,000-50,000 units.

[rkisler]

Thanks for that explanation Austin, it helps form a picture of how these plants are laid out.

 

Still curious to the one document I read that had Ford C-Max production at Wayne Assembly with PV around 40,000 units. And the same document Michigan Truck once over hauled producing Focus with PV around 200,000 units and Louisville producing Focus with PV 45,000-50,000 units.

 

I don't think any of us outside of Ford have a good handle on exactly which derivatives Ford is considering on C2 and CD4, what the projected mixes are, and what the plant assignments are going to be. I suspect it isn't settled fully inside of Ford yet either. And broad application of the California CO2 mandates would cause further cycle plan changes toward small cars.

 

In general, a double shift plant will get somewhere around 225-260k per year (that's why biker mentioned around 500k on two shifts in MAP and Louisville).

 

And there will still be room to go to three crew if the volume opportunity is there (around 750k total in 2 plants).

 

It would make sense to me if MAP were C2 only, and Louisville flex between C2 and CD4.

 

And I agree with Richard, that I don't have a clue what all this means to KC Escape.

[silvrsvt]

**Second edit -- I just got news that Ford would build an advanced technology vehicle at MAP (the new name for MTP/Wayne). So I guess the electric Focus will be build in-house?

 

Maybe they'll use Wanye as the assembly area for the electric Focus and TC? Have the nearly completed Units built at MAP and then shipped their to get their electrical compenets put in?

[rkisler]

Maybe they'll use Wanye as the assembly area for the electric Focus and TC? Have the nearly completed Units built at MAP and then shipped their to get their electrical compenets put in?

 

I would think they would keep this inside MAP. It's really tough to build a rolling chassis and pull it off-line to ship it somewhere. And if you go through a complete build, then you have a used powertrain. So for the Focus, I see a shunt line -- a short area where the vehicles go off-line for the unique electrical bits, but then join the line later with the "normal" units for trim and final. There is some possibility this could be done on the main line, but it would take careful planning. The powertrain and front suspension are decked (installed into the body from the bottom) together. The mount points will be the same, but the hardware different, so it is possible.

 

Pioneer won't like this, but Ford could use the BEV Focus to try to put Magna on the floor at MAP to do the work on the BEV's and pay them on a completed vehicle basis (rather than buying the parts). While this might be an advantage to Ford, it would be a huge fight if Ford were to press it. First, I can't think of any suppliers (even UAW suppliers) who are presently inside the confines of Ford's assembly plants (although I think there is an example in a Jeep plant IIRC). Second, Magna is staunchly anti-union.

 

I don't know about TC. But if Ford wants to build it in MAP or Louisville, the e-coat and paint shop should be able to handle it which represents a huge savings. And I think long term, you would want to bring the BEV build inside on that vehicle also if the volumes are high enough to justify it.

[Pioneer]

Pioneer won't like this, but Ford could use the BEV Focus to try to put Magna on the floor at MAP to do the work on the BEV's and pay them on a completed vehicle basis (rather than buying the parts).

 

Ford plant, Ford vehicle, Ford workers.

 

There is no reason to bring outside contractors in to do work the regular workers can do.

[RichardJensen]

Ford plant, Ford vehicle, Ford workers.

 

There is no reason to bring outside contractors in to do work the regular workers can do.

Unless the owner of the technology will not part with it unless it gets those concessions.

 

Ford can't design a BEV faster than Magna can get one to them, so Magna in all honesty, have the upper hand.

[Pioneer]

Unless the owner of the technology will not part with it unless it gets those concessions.

 

Then they will have to install it off-site, ala Saleen.

[namelocbob]

I was laid off from Michigan Truck January 20th indefinitely. On February 23 I was picked up by Wayne Isa. Does this mean I will have home plant return to work rights? Their is still fellow trades working at MTP.

[RichardJensen]

Then they will have to install it off-site, ala Saleen.

Depending on volume, I could see that--but you're looking at transporting bodies with no powertrain out of MAP to some off-site facility.....

 

I don't see how that works for any kind of serious volume.....

[Pioneer]

Depending on volume, I could see that--but you're looking at transporting bodies with no powertrain out of MAP to some off-site facility.....

 

I don't see how that works for any kind of serious volume.....

 

Then Magna will just have to supply the parts. There is no way, I would hope, our Union would allow Magna to work on the floor.

[rkisler]

Then Magna will just have to supply the parts. There is no way, I would hope, our Union would allow Magna to work on the floor.

 

I was just trying to be a bit provocative. This type of arrangement with outside suppliers has been on Ford's wishlist for years, but..

 

Personally, I don't see it happening in this case. The only chance would have been if Ford had the project and was looking at inside/outside build and had some negotiating leverage. But since the project has already been announced (although I haven't seen any official news release), there is no leverage. So I suspect it will be at MAP using Ford UAW labor.

 

And given the state of Ford/UAW relations (good, despite hardships), and given the recent UAW concessions, I think pushing this concept at this point would be "penny wise and pound foolish".