armadamaster Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 (edited) The Panthers' biggest in-house competition for survival and the latest victims after the poor sales of the Five Hundread and Montego, the Sable and X appear to be going away: Word coming out of Dearborn indicates the two cars will be axed as a result of meager sales results combined with Ford's newly-established commitment to producing smaller, more fuel efficient vehicles. Rumors surrounding the cancelation of the Taurus X (formerly known as the Freestyle) have been making the rounds ever since the new Flex crossover rolled onto dealership lots earlier this year. Last July, the Taurus X sold 2,304 units, down from the 2,705 the same time last year. The already slow-selling Sable managed only 2,276 sales last month compared to 2,589 a year ago. According to leaked company documents, production of the Taurus X and Sable will halt sometime next year at Ford's Chicago Assembly Plant. The facility also builds the Lincoln MKS and Taurus Sedan, both of which will remain in production. More Edited November 19, 2008 by Armada Master Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 The Panthers' biggest in-house competition for survival and the latest victims after the poor sales of the Five Hundread and Montego, the Sable and X appear to be going away: More Welcome to last month. Why are you back anyway? It's been nice not having to see your drivel lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 (edited) Let's see: Flex replaces Taurus X. Mercury is changing focus to smaller cars. (This means the beloved Grandma Quis ain't long for this earth either.) All makes perfect sense to me. Compared to the D3's launch when there were 3 variants, there will actually be 4 variants next year. Deathwatch, eh? Edited November 19, 2008 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bored of Pisteon Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 I already see D3's used as cabs. So there is some sort of future in this platform I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 The D3 chassis would make an excellent taxi....and Ford has a Hybrid system that is damn near a "bolt in" unit. Would love to see them dominate the NYC taxi commission with a juggernaut of D3 and Panther to own that market. D3 in Taurus sedan form for the ubiquitous yellow taxi and Town Car for upscale livery services in Manhattan, Wall Street, and airport areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 D3 will be used for next gen Explorer. Hardly going to die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armadamaster Posted November 20, 2008 Author Share Posted November 20, 2008 (edited) Let's see: Flex replaces Taurus X. And what exactly is the Flex doing that the Taurus X did not. (& pls don't tell me selling) Mercury is changing focus to smaller cars. (This means the beloved Grandma Quis ain't long for this earth either.) Yes, because getting rid of your best selling nameplate ever is good business sense. Die F150! Compared to the D3's launch when there were 3 variants, there will actually be 4 variants next year. Deathwatch, eh? Oh I know Ford's willing to slap the D3 under anything to sell 'em, but let's add them up so far: Five Hundread> DEAD Montego> DEAD Freestyle> DEAD D3 Taurus> Already getting a reskin D3 Sable> DYING Taurus X> DYING MKS> Third best selling middle luxury sedan! (sounds like me trying to justify marrying my third cousin) Flex> you can almost buy two Taurus Xs for the price of one Welcome to last month. Why are you back anyway? It's been nice not having to see your drivel lately. Edited November 20, 2008 by Armada Master Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 And what exactly is the Flex doing that the Taurus X did not. (& pls don't tell me selling) Does the same thing, only better. Yes, because getting rid of your best selling nameplate ever is good business sense. Die F150! Yeah, best-selling to fleets. We've discussed the reasons why the Panthers need to die numerous times. It is inevitable. End of story. Oh I know Ford's willing to slap the D3 under anything to sell 'em, but let's add them up so far: Five Hundread> DEAD Renamed, not dead Montego> DEAD Renamed, not dead, but soon to be. Again, Mercury's focus going to small cars, no use for fullsize Montego or Sable Freestyle> DEAD Renamed, not dead D3 Taurus> Already getting a reskin Already? It is DUE for a reskin. D3 Sable> DYING With logical reasoning Taurus X> DYING Replaced by Flex MKS> Third best selling middle luxury sedan! (sounds like me trying to justify marrying my third cousin) So where does the Town Car stack up on that list? Flex> you can almost buy two Taurus Xs for the price of one Math isn't your strong point, is it? I'm starting to regret asking to have you re-instated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemiman Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 (edited) Yeah, best-selling to fleets. We've discussed the reasons why the Panthers need to die numerous times. It is inevitable. End of story. Along with E Series and now F-Series (250 on up). Fleet sales is not a bad thing if done at a profit. 60,000 units aint bad! Edited November 20, 2008 by Hemiman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Along with E Series and now F-Series (250 on up). Fleet sales is not a bad thing if done at a profit. 60,000 units aint bad! I doubt E-series and F-series are 90% fleet. And those two vehicle lines sell to fleets at a hefty profit. The Panthers' profit margins dwindle every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemiman Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 I doubt E-series and F-series are 90% fleet. And those two vehicle lines sell to fleets at a hefty profit. The Panthers' profit margins dwindle every day. Nick, I like you, but we'll go to our graves dissagreeing on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Nick, I like you, but we'll go to our graves dissagreeing on this one. So you don't think the Panthers' profit margins are decreasing with every passing day? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemiman Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 So you don't think the Panthers' profit margins are decreasing with every passing day? Still one of the most profitable per unit that Ford sells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rscalzo Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 (edited) Still one of the most profitable per unit that Ford sells. How can they be one of the most profitable when the PI are out the door at 20K? Edited November 20, 2008 by rscalzo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Still one of the most profitable per unit that Ford sells. I really seriously doubt that's true anymore. With St. Thomas running only one shift and sales going to fleets at a higher rate than ever, it simply can't be making much anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rscalzo Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 The profit margin on the Lincoln is probably still decent but fleet sales of PI are and always have been slim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 The profit margin on the Lincoln is probably still decent but fleet sales of PI are and always have been slim. The Town Car is probably still paying off the costs of moving its tooling from Wixom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemiman Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 I really seriously doubt that's true anymore. With St. Thomas running only one shift and sales going to fleets at a higher rate than ever, it simply can't be making much anymore. I can't speak to this because I don't know. There's got to be someone here who actually knows what the cost per unit is. Or are we all a bunch of armchair QB's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 I can't speak to this because I don't know. There's got to be someone here who actually knows what the cost per unit is. Or are we all a bunch of armchair QB's. It all started with someone inside Ford posting in some article several years ago that the Panther made somewhere around $10,000 per unit. That number has been tossed around as evidence of their superiority ever since, even though Ford has not made any mention of the Panther's profitability since then. Of course, that was back when St. Thomas was cranking out several hundred thousand of them a year. That's not the case anymore. Logic would only dictate that that number is no longer relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcoleman2006 Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 It all started with someone inside Ford posting in some article several years ago that the Panther made somewhere around $10,000 per unit. That number has been tossed around as evidence of their superiority ever since, even though Ford has not made any mention of the Panther's profitability since then. Of course, that was back when St. Thomas was cranking out several hundred thousand of them a year. That's not the case anymore. Logic would only dictate that that number is no longer relevant. Currently this year, January to July 2008. St. Thomas has generated a profit of roughly 266 million dollars for Ford. You can now do the math to calculate profit-per-vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milstar 04 Sport Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Currently this year, January to July 2008. St. Thomas has generated a profit of roughly 266 million dollars for Ford. You can now do the math to calculate profit-per-vehicle. I am sure that the D3 beat that figure! After all, it is Fords best selling vehicle! But, now we are all in deflationary times, and Ford, GM, and Mopar; so we will be selling cars at a loss! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rscalzo Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 While that would give you an average, the profit from a PI has got to be much less than that of a Lincoln Town Car. I must be doing something wrong. i get a profit of $45 per unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Currently this year, January to July 2008. St. Thomas has generated a profit of roughly 266 million dollars for Ford. You can now do the math to calculate profit-per-vehicle. Where did you come up with that figure? Breaking it down through July though, that's around $4300/vehicle. Could be about right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemiman Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 (edited) Where did you come up with that figure? Breaking it down through July though, that's around $4300/vehicle. Could be about right. That's about what I come up with. Not $10,000, but still not bad. Hope the NYC taxi orders help out. Now lets find someone who knows the margins between CV, GM & TC. Edited November 21, 2008 by Hemiman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armadamaster Posted November 22, 2008 Author Share Posted November 22, 2008 I'm starting to regret asking to have you re-instated. Aww...c'mon...it's Panther related in the Panther forum...I'm keeping it out of the Windstar section. I still don't see what the Flex is doing that the X isn't. And that's not saying the Flex is bad...it's not...I don't see what more it's accomplishing for quite a bit more coin versus the X. I guess it has the "bling" covered where the X was lacking, but that's about it. IIRC, the fleet only Crown Vic nearly outsold Volvo (the whole brand) for either September or October, better believe they're making $$$. I wonder what the tow rating is going to look like for a D3 Explorer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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