Jump to content

Which Brands are GM Dissing for Good?


FordBuyer

Recommended Posts

The report out today is that GM is about to cut thousands of workers and abandon at least one division and perhaps more. Speculation is that Saturn and Saab will go. I see Saturn surviving cut. Saab is a given and will be for sale I believe. IMO, Pontiac, Buick, and GMC need to go. The G6 is good seller and fuel efficient, but it's high rental fleet seller and only volume seller in Pontiac fleet....GONE or should be gone. Buick vehicles are dismal sellers and Enclave can easily go to Cadillac brand. With truck volume sinking fast, GM does not need TWO truck divisions. Get rid of it NOW. Chevy knows how to sell trucks and can deal with it. For me, Saturn should get vehicles like Astra and other European, global vehicles with good gas mileage. If GM is to survive, Chevy, Cadillac, and European based Saturn stay and rest go way of Oldsmobile. GM's anchor is way too heavy to stay afloat in 13 million new car market, and needs to cut links out now in order to stay afloat. I'm assuming Hummer will be sold to Russian outfit sometime this year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

it will be just Hummer - I am willing to bet on it.

 

Igor

 

If U.S. vehicle market is no more than 14 million/year for rest of this year and next, then GM as we know it will not survive with all these separate divisions overlapping each other. GM will have to get rid of a lot more than Hummer. GM needs to start with clean sheet of paper and only TWO divisions should be on it to start...Chevy and Cadillac and I would argue for Saturn. I believe it's real hard to make a case for Buick Lucerne and LaCrosse, and Pontiac with only one volume seller albeit fleet, and GMC producing redundant trucks in disintergrating segment. With Chevy now getting its version of larger Crossover, there is no need for Acadia. Evan an amateur like me can see this is financial suicide. Could you see Ford producing four versions of the Edge? Two is a stretch enough in a down market. Or how about four versions of the Flex when you have less than 20% market share? Or maybe Chrysler should produce four versions of the Journey. GM acts like they are GM of 1968 when they had over 40% market share. Waggoner needs to be fired and hatchet man needs to be brought in that is not sentimental. I'm sentimental guy, but I don't run multi billion doller corporation either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

you make perfect sense - but GM does not - they will NOT ditch anything beyond Hummer - they will come out with some awkwardly forced PR about how they thought about it long and hard and it simply did not make sense.

 

just watch ..

 

Igor

Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-to-sell-bra...his-summer.html

 

Some of you seem to support keeping Saturn. I think I agree with this article in saying Saturn vehicles (at least the ones that don't have US counterparts) could easily be sold under the Chevy brand, like the Vue. GM needs to drop a Lambda (or 2) with the Caddy version coming online in a few years, so there goes the Outlook, Aura plans have already been put on hold, Sky I don't see many of those, not sure how they sell, and Astra I think could be put in the Chevy lineup.

 

I also support the dropping of GMC, as others have mentioned they're just rebadged trucks in a shrinking market.

 

Honestly the only brands I see doing well right now are Chevy and Cadillac. All others (although you couldn't do it) could be dropped. Buick is stuck with Cadillac in the way, although you need them for China, Saab-who knows whats going on with them, although you may need them for the Scandinavian/European market. I've given my thoughts on GMC and Saturn (and Hummer is an obvious drop). That leaves Pontiac, which only has the fleet G6 and now the G8, so I'd drop them, and I think I may do so over Saturn.

 

So this is what I would do with GM:

Keep:

Chevy, Buick, Saab, and Cadillac

Drop/Sell:

Saturn, Pontiac, GMC, and Hummer

 

I'm sorry if that was confusing. And Saab and Pontiac are interchangable.

Edited by rmc523
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmm are we forgetting option 3? Sell Opel/ Vauxhall and maybe Saab and pull back to the US entirely? Crazy idea really, but the kind of thing Rick might do.....
WHY THE HELL WOULD HE!?!?! Europe is ,making him money!!! US is the giant troubled child .. your ideas are so out of whack I winder at time whether you are joking.

 

Igor

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The report out today is that GM is about to cut thousands of workers and abandon at least one division and perhaps more. Speculation is that Saturn and Saab will go. I see Saturn surviving cut. Saab is a given and will be for sale I believe. IMO, Pontiac, Buick, and GMC need to go. The G6 is good seller and fuel efficient, but it's high rental fleet seller and only volume seller in Pontiac fleet....GONE or should be gone. Buick vehicles are dismal sellers and Enclave can easily go to Cadillac brand. With truck volume sinking fast, GM does not need TWO truck divisions. Get rid of it NOW. Chevy knows how to sell trucks and can deal with it. For me, Saturn should get vehicles like Astra and other European, global vehicles with good gas mileage. If GM is to survive, Chevy, Cadillac, and European based Saturn stay and rest go way of Oldsmobile. GM's anchor is way too heavy to stay afloat in 13 million new car market, and needs to cut links out now in order to stay afloat. I'm assuming Hummer will be sold to Russian outfit sometime this year.

 

In my opinion, the only two viable divisions of General Motors are Chevrolet and Cadillac. Quite frankly, I never understood Saturn. As widely reported, GM is burning through cash rapidly and announcing that they're going to shut down divisions will cost them greatly. They'll be putting hundreds of thousands of Company (GM) and Dealership employees out of woirk and there will be a lot of Dealership real estate suddenly available at bargain basement prices.

 

Should GM reduce itself to only Chevy & Cadillac divisions, it will be interesting to see how it stacks up competitively against Ford & Lincoln. What no mention of Mercury? I think that Ford will have Mercury die a slow death so that so they can avoid the costs associated with an announcement and resulting Dealership litigation that they're shutting down the Mercury Division. They'll stop development of future Mercury product, as already reported widely, and just let Mercury die leaving only the Lincoln Division which they're obviously promoting with new products. The smaller Lincoln/Mercury stores will be forced to close and the resulting Lincoln stores will be stronger as a result because there will be less competition.

 

These are just my thoughts, based on 22 years of experience, and presented here as my thoughts on the current and future Market situation as I see it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I posted this in a thread about the Chevrolet Traverse a few weeks ago:

 

GM is definitely walking a tightrope between geuine brand distinction and badge-engineering, however. The Traverse has just enough difference to make it a distinctive Chevrolet product-- but that becomes increasingly-difficult with each and every new Lamda they release. The same goes for Epsilon II and Delta. The same will remain true for Zeta, especially since it is soon being merged with Cadillac's Sigma architecture...

 

In the end, it is unavoidable-- GM will have to start dropping nameplates, and SOON.

 

Pontiac, though it is my favorite GM brand (Firebird and GTO forever!), will have to go.

 

And GMC? Do we seriously need a stepping stone between a Chevrolet Suburban and a Cadillac Escalade? Or between a Chevrolet Traverse/Saturn Outlook and a Buick Enclave? Because that's just about all it really is at this point...

 

As far as I'm concerned, the jury is still out on Saturn and Buick. Saturn had been making themselves look better than Chevrolet for a while... but then Chevrolet came out with the new Malibu. Saturn has a nice, 7-passenger CUV... but now Chevrolet has one too. Saturn still has nice, refined compact CUV... but I'm hearing rumors that one is in the works for Chevrolet, too. Saturn still has a nifty, zippy, Euro-centric compact hatchback... but now Chevrolet has... um... a not-too-bad coupe, a dorky-looking sedan, and the cartoonish, third-world-appropriate Aveo.

 

Wow... that means the Astra is currently Saturn's saving grace! A Redline version is supposed to be in the works, but it needs to be here yesterday.

 

What about Saab? Aside from a few fashionista-wannabes... does anybody really buy them anymore?

 

As for Hummer-- the 1990's are over. It made a nice, profitable splash for a few years. Unless you really need a competitor for the Jeep Wrangler (and only the Wrangler), I can't really see keeping this one around for much longer either...

 

I still stand by most of that. Part of the problem is that, like Ford, GM needs to start trimming down their dealer network.

 

For that matter, Pontiac and GMC should get the axe. Buick may have to follow suit, since a RWD Buick could eat into Cadillac sales.

 

As for the Euro-centric stuff, keep either Saturn OR Saab. Lose the other.

 

Hummer can go too. They no longer do anything a Tahoe with an off-road package can't do.

 

That would leave Chevrolet at the bottom, and Cadillac at the top, with either Saturn or Saab in the middle. This would appear to be a much more streamlined, more manageable family of brands.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmm are we forgetting option 3? Sell Opel/ Vauxhall and maybe Saab and pull back to the US entirely? Crazy idea really, but the kind of thing Rick might do.....

 

It seems the the crazy thing you might do T Stag, sell off your most fuel efficent cars when fuels $4 and hang on to your Hummers they will go bankrupt even quicker with you in charge. What are you on a GM deathwish mission tonight.

 

Stick to what you know best MG, and their mission of taking over the world with 0 sales.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

WHY THE HELL WOULD HE!?!?! Europe is ,making him money!!! US is the giant troubled child .. your ideas are so out of whack I winder at time whether you are joking.

 

Igor

 

Because he's Rick and he doesn't make good decisions. I know it's a bad idea but would he???? He's probably just trying to raise $15 billion dollar to get through to the next crisis.

 

Answer me this. Ford has a plan to return to profit with clear targets. What's GM's?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Keep Chevy, Pontiac, Buick, and Cadillac and throw the rest to the wolves. Saab sells even less than Mercury, people are not flocking to Saturn like expected, and GMC and Hummer aren't necessary.

 

Pontiac has far more youth recognition than people give credit to, and it is GM's third best-selling brand. Buick stays because of the China connection. Chevy and Cadillac are obvious keeps.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Answer me this. Ford has a plan to return to profit with clear targets. What's GM's?

To be fair, Ford's "plans" to return to profitability have thus far been nothing but broken promises. Tough talk and big plans are great, but sooner or later you need to produce some results. Thats something Ford is yet to do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

See, I hate to say it but I think they should axe Buick within ten years and make Buick's products into big Pontiacs.

 

Lucerne as Bonneville? LaCrosse no more?

 

Saturn should stay or go - one or the other. Saturn would be perfect in today's economy as econoboxes like their 1990s cache. But... uh... nah.

Edited by Roadrunner
Link to comment
Share on other sites

LINK-Detroit news

 

Hummer is definately one brand to go, but there's still a need to kill another.

 

My bets are on Buick. No matter how much money they throw at it, at every car show, the Buick display section looks like a morgue, and the buyers are one step away from one as it is. Yes, they had plans of pushing it upwards to where Cadillac was, but even Cadillac is having a hard time trying to reach the upper-echelon vehicles from BMW/MBenz, so I believe Cadillac needs to come back down to earth a bit. And just kill Buick altogether.

 

I do not believe that GMC will be nixed because it resonates and has a loyal following with tradesmen. It's there's "professional grade" vehicles and amazingly, sells better than some of GM's other brands under consideration. Although the only benefit I see of killing GMC is if they wish to increase their CAFE, and possibly have those buyers enter a Chevy showroom to buy a Silverado and most probably making that the #1 selling truck in the nation if they wish to go for that goal.

 

Pontiac doesn't do anything special, I dont see a reason to keeping them, but they actually sell well to rental companies, so who knows.

 

Saab is a joke, sell them if they can.

 

Saturn I believe they will keep. They have loyal buyers, good customer satisfaction ratings, and from all of GM's brands, if people are asked about "fuel efficiency", they'll mention Saturn because of the earliest vehicles they first released and that resonates with many consumers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To be fair, Ford's "plans" to return to profitability have thus far been nothing but broken promises. Tough talk and big plans are great, but sooner or later you need to produce some results. Thats something Ford is yet to do.

 

Broken promises? I see plenty of cost-saving measures that Ford has implemented that have seen tangible results. Reduced warranty costs. Increased quality. Lower incentive spending. Lower rental fleet deliveries. Reduced dealer count. Increased global PD.

 

Where are GM's cost-saving measures? Other than cutting models and closing plants, have they done anything to improve the bottom line?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The report out today is that GM is about to cut thousands of workers and abandon at least one division and perhaps more. Speculation is that Saturn and Saab will go. I see Saturn surviving cut. Saab is a given and will be for sale I believe. IMO, Pontiac, Buick, and GMC need to go. The G6 is good seller and fuel efficient, but it's high rental fleet seller and only volume seller in Pontiac fleet....GONE or should be gone. Buick vehicles are dismal sellers and Enclave can easily go to Cadillac brand. With truck volume sinking fast, GM does not need TWO truck divisions. Get rid of it NOW. Chevy knows how to sell trucks and can deal with it. For me, Saturn should get vehicles like Astra and other European, global vehicles with good gas mileage. If GM is to survive, Chevy, Cadillac, and European based Saturn stay and rest go way of Oldsmobile. GM's anchor is way too heavy to stay afloat in 13 million new car market, and needs to cut links out now in order to stay afloat. I'm assuming Hummer will be sold to Russian outfit sometime this year.

Small Car Division: entry level Saturn/Chevy, picking the best sellers of each

Mid-Size Division: Aura, Malibu

Luxo Division: entry level Buick, Cadillac, Corvette

Light Truck Divison: all cuv's, Chevy/GMC looks combined (GMC's have looked much better in recent years), pick-ups, vans, etc.

Deep-6 the rest. KISS principle applies here. That's something that GM can understand.

Edited by 156n3rd
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Broken promises? I see plenty of cost-saving measures that Ford has implemented that have seen tangible results. Reduced warranty costs. Increased quality. Lower incentive spending. Lower rental fleet deliveries. Reduced dealer count. Increased global PD.

What about the promise to return to profitability that has been pushed back several times? I agree that Ford has improved in some areas, but the simple fact is that they are still losing money and marketshare.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think most of you are missing the point. To kill off brands you need to pay off dealers. GM can't afford the bill. A fundemental restructuring must happen at GM either via Chapter 11 or by GM breaking itself up. You can speculate all you want about which brand will go, but GM may end up being more than 1 company by the end of the year. It's cheaper than trying to kill off brands..... that said Hummer will surely die.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

GM in NA should be Chevy, Cadillac, Pontiac

 

GMC buyers can move over to Chevy so easily(even though i have had a friend say Chevy is shit, thats why he drives a GMC :rolleyes: )

 

Pontiac is the niche brand that should up on more affordable performance vehicles as well as importing performance cars from other markets

 

Chevy can import some appliance cars from around the world to replace Saturn

 

and Cadillac can make some more affordable FWD cars with just as much luxury as their RWD counterparts at less money to replace Buick

 

Hummer was dumb in the first place and it sucks for those dealerships that built whole new buildings and lots for just 2 vehicles......so stupid

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GM world wide should be Opel/Vauxhaul, Holden, and Buick

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...