Thinking out loud

[Blue II]

Just thinking out loud. What does everyone think of a new series of Mod engines?

 

4.0 V-8 TT/GDI, CGI block. Application would be all RWD passenger cars. Basically a Twin Force Mod.

 

5.0 V-8 TT/GDI, CGI block, 3 MM wider main bearing's @ 2,3,4. Truck application.

[wescoent]

My main question would be reliability and durability. Fuel efficiency would be great, for sure. However, a certain level of durability is needed out of these engines, especially high mileage ones. While I'm sure it'll run like a champ to 100,000 miles, what about Town Cars with 480,000 miles on the odometer?

[30 OTT 6]

I'd prefer naturally aspirated V8's myself. The direct injection and compacted graphite iron blocks sound great though.

 

I wonder if the CGI block material will allow for wider cylinder bores without compromising durability?

 

P.S. Blue II - Are you hinting at what's in the works?

[silvrsvt]

My main question would be reliability and durability. Fuel efficiency would be great, for sure. However, a certain level of durability is needed out of these engines, especially high mileage ones. While I'm sure it'll run like a champ to 100,000 miles, what about Town Cars with 480,000 miles on the odometer?

 

Ford benchmarks their engines to last 150K miles without a major internal failure

 

The only bad thing about the Mods is they are fucking HUGE! I have no quams with a modular type engine, just don't make 4.6L engine as big as a 351 in physical size!

[wescoent]

To be perfectly honest, if Ford could build these motors to be durable enough for beater usage in trucks and the Panthers, this would be a VERY refreshing change. For once, Ford would be doing something different on a wide scale, and importantly, something different and fuel-efficient, due to the turbos, DI, and light weight.

[matthewq4b]

Ford benchmarks their engines to last 150K miles without a major internal failure

 

The only bad thing about the Mods is they are fucking HUGE! I have no quams with a modular type engine, just don't make 4.6L engine as big as a 351 in physical size!

 

 

351?????? Try 460 size.

 

The 4.6 is a as wide and high as the old 385 series. If it was the size of the 351W it would be an improvement.

 

Matthew

[falconman13]

A small displacement V8 that gets better mileage than the V6. It seems like a great idea , but I wonder if it will have a stigma associated with it with the greenies.

 

Take for instance the stigma of the SUV. Greenies constantly harp on the "Gas Guzzling SUV" when in reality, most of them get better mileage than that old claptrap POS they are driving and definitely pollute less than the old VW. They don't want their opinions clouded by a bunch of useless facts.

 

So if you were to replace a 6 cylinder that gets on average 20MPG with a V8 that gets 25MPG , I think you would still bump up against the V8 hating crowd.

[igor]

Just thinking out loud. What does everyone think of a new series of Mod engines?

 

4.0 V-8 TT/GDI, CGI block. Application would be all RWD passenger cars. Basically a Twin Force Mod.

 

5.0 V-8 TT/GDI, CGI block, 3 MM wider main bearing's @ 2,3,4. Truck application.

so is FORD thinking about these? are you thinking about proposing these? or is this just an academic discussion?

 

Igor

[old_fairmont_wagon]

Well, I see two holes in Ford's engine lineup.

 

A smallish v6 in the 2.7L range.

A "modern small block" v8 in the 3.8L - 5.2L range (and a replacement for the MOD 4.6L)

 

The smallish v6 may become moot if the 2.5L proves to be much improved over the 2.3L and they continue to carry the D30 forward with significant improvements.

 

The modern small block is contingent on a successful replacement program for the 4.6L MOD. Such an engine should be at least as good at emissions as the current mod is, improve gas mileage by at least 10%, and improve torque/liter production by 10% at the same time. Anything less and the program really isn't worth it. Oh, and it should be compact enough for transverse mounting in the D3 architecture as it exists at the time of the introduction of the engine. Otherwise, what's the point?

 

But, I really think that, unless there's a glaring need for a new gas engine for traditional applications, Ford should instead really start to look in earnest at vehicle technologies for cars like the volt. I think that a compact, light weight, and high energy density diesel coupled to an all electric drive system with a limited storage capacitor/battery system would be a better way to approach things. Regenerative braking to the caps for starting and stoping. diesel electric powertrain for cruising. The little battery is to help in the transition between the modes and to improve low speed in-town efficiency. A plug in model could be generated by increasing the battery capacity.

 

I no enviro-wacko, but I do see a market trend to increasing acceptance of more efficient vehicles and willingness to work with the quirks of those vehicles. I think that Ford has set an excellent precedent with their escape hybrid and has the momentary lead among the domestics in market perception of their hybrid products. Another excellent effort in the CD3 trio will definitely improve things for them. If the GEN II system is at least 10% more efficient than the gen I system was, the fusion hybrid should be able to meet or beat the Camry hybrid in efficiency. And, I believe, that's where the market really is in the near term.

 

Longer term, they need to get a usable hybrid system into a crossover and soon. Wether its the Taurus X or the Edge, there needs to be one out there that's got the gas mileage of a sedan with the usability of a crossover.

[ZanatWork]

Just thinking out loud. What does everyone think of a new series of Mod engines?

 

4.0 V-8 TT/GDI, CGI block. Application would be all RWD passenger cars. Basically a Twin Force Mod.

 

5.0 V-8 TT/GDI, CGI block, 3 MM wider main bearing's @ 2,3,4. Truck application.

 

 

I like the basic specs, as long as the engines are decent normally aspirated as well.

 

As a guy who wrenches on his own stuff, excessive plumbing makes me nervous. I'm not saying NOT to offer TT variants, just to have a solid motor to start with.

[White99GT]

Just thinking out loud. What does everyone think of a new series of Mod engines?

 

4.0 V-8 TT/GDI, CGI block. Application would be all RWD passenger cars. Basically a Twin Force Mod.

 

5.0 V-8 TT/GDI, CGI block, 3 MM wider main bearing's @ 2,3,4. Truck application.

 

3V or 4V?

 

Sounds good to me. The 5.0 V-8 TT/GDI is the stuff of dreams for me.

[Ford-150]

i don't know, how much power would that 5.0 create in the F-150 that is already underpowered compared to the rest of the competition

[Blueblood]

Just thinking out loud. What does everyone think of a new series of Mod engines?

 

4.0 V-8 TT/GDI, CGI block. Application would be all RWD passenger cars. Basically a Twin Force Mod.

 

5.0 V-8 TT/GDI, CGI block, 3 MM wider main bearing's @ 2,3,4. Truck application.

 

 

Does this mean the morons in management canceled the Hurricane again?

 

The mods are a lose-lose situation, huge physical size, massive weight (which kills handling, fuel econimy, etc..), tiny bores, huge strokes, it's just way past time for an all new engine architecture..

[Blueblood]

Ford benchmarks their engines to last 150K miles without a major internal failure

 

The only bad thing about the Mods is they are fucking HUGE! I have no quams with a modular type engine, just don't make 4.6L engine as big as a 351 in physical size!

 

 

Uh, the 351 is tiny compared to the mods, the mods are as big as a 427 cammer!!

 

Bring on the Hurricane or just give up..

[silvrsvt]

Does this mean the morons in management canceled the Hurricane again?

 

The mods are a lose-lose situation, huge physical size, massive weight (which kills handling, fuel econimy, etc..), tiny bores, huge strokes, it's just way past time for an all new engine architecture..

 

 

The Hurricane is still a go...but a 6.2L in a car is a bit overkill...as for the Mods "massive" weight...it only weighs 25lbs more

[White99GT]

Uh, the 351 is tiny compared to the mods, the mods are as big as a 427 cammer!!

 

I know you hate the Mods, but at least get your facts straight.

 

Width x Length x Height

4.6 DOHC - 28.9" x 27.1" x 29.8"

7.0 SOHC - 32.0" x 34.0" x 30.0"

 

And for comparison's sake:

7.0 BOSS - 30.0" x 34.0" x 30.0"

5.0 OHV - 24.0" x 29.0" x 27.5"

[White99GT]

The Hurricane is still a go...but a 6.2L in a car is a bit overkill...as for the Mods "massive" weight...it only weighs 25lbs more

 

+1 on the weight

 

As far as the 6.2 being overkill, for a special edition Mustang I disagree.

[wescoent]

This engine family could be Ford's hedge against unreasonable fuel-economy standards. While the Hurricanes can remain optional engines, these can be the standard motors, providing decent power with much better fuel economy than less tech-heavy motors.

 

If these new measures do come to pass, I'd rather Ford be ready, than get caught with their pants down. The Hemis and LS-series from GM would be made instantly obsolete, leaving them with no alternatives.

[silvrsvt]

As far as the 6.2 being overkill, for a special edition Mustang I disagree.

 

Well thats just one car, Ford needs a V8 that can fit into the D3 and its successors in the years to come...

[wescoent]

Well thats just one car, Ford needs a V8 that can fit into the D3 and its successors in the years to come...

 

That's the God-damned truth right there. The question is, would the Mod block be able to fit into the D3 front assembly?

 

I'm envisioning a high-pressure twin turbo 5.0 in a lowered MKS with a DSG and performance AWD. If the 3.5L Twin Turbo can produce 425hp, would a 600hp 5.0 MKS be unreasonable?

 

Or maybe a 500hp twin turbo 4.0 under the hood of a Taurus, with said AWD and DSG?

 

Where the HELL is John Coletti and SVT when you need them?!!!

[Sizzler]

Just thinking out loud. What does everyone think of a new series of Mod engines?

 

4.0 V-8 TT/GDI, CGI block. Application would be all RWD passenger cars. Basically a Twin Force Mod.

 

5.0 V-8 TT/GDI, CGI block, 3 MM wider main bearing's @ 2,3,4. Truck application.

 

Add to the list an elongated set of 3.5l DOHC heads (direct acting cams) and I think you'd see the package shrink quite a bit and performance improve as well. Fewer parts than the current 3V heads, shared components.

 

Simplest would be to just graft on two extra cylinders to the 3.5l V6...math works out to 4.7l for a V8 version and the 3.5l's block would probably allow for more boring than the original mod's block.

(edit: pesty problem of V-angle between a V-6 and V-8 block, oh well, graft on two cylinders and spread the banks further apart.)

 

...just thinking along out loud...

Edited June 14, 2007 by Sizzler

[Ford-150]

The Hurricane is still a go...but a 6.2L in a car is a bit overkill...as for the Mods "massive" weight...it only weighs 25lbs more

i thought the base Corvette had the LS2 which is 6.0, then next year they will have a 6.2L, and the ZO6 has a LS7 which is 7.0L, and they handle okay

 

but it is great to hear that the Hurricane is still go, or is it called the Boss, i even heard they dropped that name

[igor]

i thought the base Corvette had the LS2 which is 6.0, then next year they will have a 6.2L, and the ZO6 has a LS7 which is 7.0L, and they handle okay

 

but it is great to hear that the Hurricane is still go, or is it called the Boss, i even heard they dropped that name

BOSS - Hurricane was canned - it included displacements up to 8.0l .. the sizes above 7.0l were canned ..

 

Igor

[Blue II]

Well, I see two holes in Ford's engine lineup.

 

A smallish v6 in the 2.7L range.

A "modern small block" v8 in the 3.8L - 5.2L range (and a replacement for the MOD 4.6L)

 

The smallish v6 may become moot if the 2.5L proves to be much improved over the 2.3L and they continue to carry the D30 forward with significant improvements.

 

The modern small block is contingent on a successful replacement program for the 4.6L MOD. Such an engine should be at least as good at emissions as the current mod is, improve gas mileage by at least 10%, and improve torque/liter production by 10% at the same time. Anything less and the program really isn't worth it. Oh, and it should be compact enough for transverse mounting in the D3 architecture as it exists at the time of the introduction of the engine. Otherwise, what's the point?

 

But, I really think that, unless there's a glaring need for a new gas engine for traditional applications, Ford should instead really start to look in earnest at vehicle technologies for cars like the volt. I think that a compact, light weight, and high energy density diesel coupled to an all electric drive system with a limited storage capacitor/battery system would be a better way to approach things. Regenerative braking to the caps for starting and stoping. diesel electric powertrain for cruising. The little battery is to help in the transition between the modes and to improve low speed in-town efficiency. A plug in model could be generated by increasing the battery capacity.

 

I no enviro-wacko, but I do see a market trend to increasing acceptance of more efficient vehicles and willingness to work with the quirks of those vehicles. I think that Ford has set an excellent precedent with their escape hybrid and has the momentary lead among the domestics in market perception of their hybrid products. Another excellent effort in the CD3 trio will definitely improve things for them. If the GEN II system is at least 10% more efficient than the gen I system was, the fusion hybrid should be able to meet or beat the Camry hybrid in efficiency. And, I believe, that's where the market really is in the near term.

 

Longer term, they need to get a usable hybrid system into a crossover and soon. Wether its the Taurus X or the Edge, there needs to be one out there that's got the gas mileage of a sedan with the usability of a crossover.

 

A Modular engine will not fit in a D3 architecture. A Cyclone 3.5 with two additional cylinders will not fit in a D3 architecture. Please make note of this.

[Blue II]

Well thats just one car, Ford needs a V8 that can fit into the D3 and its successors in the years to come...

 

V-8's will be RWD only.