Toyota Workers

[Jared Jackson]

There's a lot of talk out there about Toyota and it's workers and I'd like to shed a little light on what is really going on out here at TMMK.

 

We probably do twice as much with half as many people as anyone out there. There is no such thing as an 8 hour day anymore, and hasn't been for many years. That is one big reason people get hurt and are kicked to the curb every day out here. I have worked here for 17 years and have seen 75 percent of the people I hired in with get hurt and sent home with nothing. That is a fact of life here at Toyota. What can we do about it? When a person talks about the UAW, then management targets them for termination, and nothing can be done to stop it. Why can't we get cards signed? Because management keeps the UAW sympathizers in check, while hundreds of temporaries are put in their places.

 

We have no retirement plan, a mediocre pension, and we pay more and more each year for medical coverage. Toyota has a plan for every "team" member to take "ownership" of their futures. It's because Toyota will not take "responsibility" for anything, including the safety and welfare of their own workers. Air quality is not even taken seriously, as is anything that may benefit the health of the worker. Toyota plays the PR hype to the fullest, but it's just that...hype. I like to call it downright untruthfulness.

 

Toyota is proud to say that they are "staying competitive" with the Big 3. Truth is that the billions of dollars they make each year in pure profit does go to the motherland, no matter what people may say. Everything they use, including paint markers for QC jobs to drills and reamers in machining areas are owned by companies that are in turn owned by Toyota. This is what is putting Big 3 workers out of jobs. They may be in the United States, but they are far from "American companies".

 

When the Big 3 are gone and Toyota has no other companies to use to compare our wages and benefits to, then the Toyota workers will be terminated and replaced 100% by temporary workers that will do the same job we all do for 9.50 an hour with no benefits. Don't think it could happen? I see it everyday.

[RichardJensen]

Toyota's use of temp workers reveals an incredible amount of hypocrisy in their sustainability report where they talk about the importance of "stable employment".

 

My guess is that the people that write that report are so out of touch with reality it's not even funny.

 

I'm going to post the Employment section of the Toyota sustainability report and the Ford sustainability report. You tell me which one is more down to earth.

 

...

[taxman100]

Honda does the same thing here in Ohio - they use a lot of temps for the less technical jobs, but they do offer good job security to those who actually make it to be a Honda employee.

 

I can tell you Honda is not using union labor rates to sweep floors, or cut the grass. However, the rank and file on the lines at Ford should make more than the moron jobs.

Edited January 25, 2006 by taxman100

[RichardJensen]

Ford on human rights:

http://www.ford.com/en/company/about/susta...topicsHuman.htm

 

Toyota on worker conditions:

http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/environmental_r...d/pdf/so_02.pdf

 

...

[swenson88]

There's a lot of talk out there about Toyota and it's workers and I'd like to shed a little light on what is really going on out here at TMMK.

 

We probably do twice as much with half as many people as anyone out there. There is no such thing as an 8 hour day anymore, and hasn't been for many years. That is one big reason people get hurt and are kicked to the curb every day out here. I have worked here for 17 years and have seen 75 percent of the people I hired in with get hurt and sent home with nothing. That is a fact of life here at Toyota. What can we do about it? When a person talks about the UAW, then management targets them for termination, and nothing can be done to stop it. Why can't we get cards signed? Because management keeps the UAW sympathizers in check, while hundreds of temporaries are put in their places.

 

We have no retirement plan, a mediocre pension, and we pay more and more each year for medical coverage. Toyota has a plan for every "team" member to take "ownership" of their futures. It's because Toyota will not take "responsibility" for anything, including the safety and welfare of their own workers. Air quality is not even taken seriously, as is anything that may benefit the health of the worker. Toyota plays the PR hype to the fullest, but it's just that...hype. I like to call it downright untruthfulness.

 

Toyota is proud to say that they are "staying competitive" with the Big 3. Truth is that the billions of dollars they make each year in pure profit does go to the motherland, no matter what people may say. Everything they use, including paint markers for QC jobs to drills and reamers in machining areas are owned by companies that are in turn owned by Toyota. This is what is putting Big 3 workers out of jobs. They may be in the United States, but they are far from "American companies".

 

When the Big 3 are gone and Toyota has no other companies to use to compare our wages and benefits to, then the Toyota workers will be terminated and replaced 100% by temporary workers that will do the same job we all do for 9.50 an hour with no benefits. Don't think it could happen? I see it everyday.

 

Why aren't more peopl talking out? Chances are if people are getting hurt, they're getting workman's comp. That's the law of the land as far as I know. I'd like to hear more from your fellow employees. I think you should encourage them to post on websites like these and to make their voices heard. What's your hourly wage or annual salary?

[tim kakouris]

ah, but isn't buying an american-made toyota just like buying a ford???????? :rolleyes:

 

i wish, somehow, people would care what the difference is. i know a lot of people SEE the difference, but not a lot of people seem to CARE.

[NickF1011]

ah, but isn't buying an american-made toyota just like buying a ford???????? :rolleyes:

 

i wish, somehow, people would care what the difference is. i know a lot of people SEE the difference, but not a lot of people seem to CARE.

 

And why SHOULD they really care? Let's face it. Americans, in general, are pretty selfish, especially when it comes to money. If their perception is that their money will be better spent on a more reliable Japanese car than an unreliable American one, why should they buy American? They don't care about the long-term consequences of their actions. Nor should they really. Americans generally live for the here-and-now.

 

The ONLY way American companies will survive is to build BETTER product. Period.

 

Americans aren't keen on wasting their money on inferior product, the future be damned.

[tim kakouris]

you're right, why should they care? but here is the rub....their perception is flawed. they are shafting themselves because of a perceived difference in quality.

 

i suppose my biggest beef is this.....why would anyone WANT to see american business fail?

 

why do we have americans trolling this and other ford/gm sites who seem to get off on the demise of american business??

 

ah, i should shut up. when my blood pressure is up, i can't even make a good argument. actually, i don't make a good argument normally, much less so when i'm all fired up.

Edited January 25, 2006 by tim kakouris

[marc-o]

you're right, why should they care? but here is the rub....their perception is flawed. they are shafting themselves because of a perceived difference in quality.

 

i suppose my biggest beef is this.....why would anyone WANT to see american business fail?

 

just like Americans were buying domestic cars under the flawed perception that they were of superior quality to imported vehicles for decades. Besides, differences in quality are statistical and minimal - like i've said before, when someone has owned or known people who have owned toyotas trouble-free for several years, that's going to carry more weight than quality surveys showing Ford with 129 defects per 100 vehicles and Toyota at 131 defects per 100 vehicles. The worse part is when you compare across brands, these "better" results aren't even consistent (especially for GM!).

 

it's not about wanting to see a business fail, it's about people doing what they believe is best for them. People don't like supporting someone who has ripped them off, even if it was 10, 15 years ago. Capitalism doesn't reward nationalities (American, Japanese, Chinese), it rewards performance in an environment. This kind of thing (weaker players getting pushed out) has happened before, the only difference now is that it's foreign-based companies that are doing the pushing.

[wildosvt]

Why aren't more peopl talking out? Chances are if people are getting hurt, they're getting workman's comp. That's the law of the land as far as I know. I'd like to hear more from your fellow employees. I think you should encourage them to post on websites like these and to make their voices heard. What's your hourly wage or annual salary?

 

 

You've got to fight like a mother fucker to get comp. My wife worked for a toyota owned company for a period and they will do everything they can to try and prove you created your own injury.

 

The will find a way to get rid of you prior to you actually getting comp.

 

(My wifes words thru my fingertips)

[Jared Jackson]

Why aren't more peopl talking out? Chances are if people are getting hurt, they're getting workman's comp. That's the law of the land as far as I know. I'd like to hear more from your fellow employees. I think you should encourage them to post on websites like these and to make their voices heard. What's your hourly wage or annual salary?

 

Good question, Swenson. I'm not talking for everybody, obviously, but workman's comp is nothing much around here. If you go to www.uawtmmk.com you can talk and ask those questions to people who know more about it than I do. As for your second question, I have been at Toyota for 17 years and am in a field which, by the way, in Japan, is considered skilled, but here in Ky. it is not. I make 25 dollars an hour and have around 72,000 in my pension plan, which could take a nose dive since it and our 401k is tied to the stock market. There are no contracts and any one of us could lose the majority of everything we saved the day before we retire. The only contract between us and them is the edict that management always tell us: YOU CAN BE TERMINATED FOR ANY REASON OR NO REASON" That's in our wonderful "team" member handbook.

 

Wildosvt couldn't have said it better when he so eloquently described how difficult it is to get workman's comp from Toyota. If you have been put on a line, for example, lifting crankshafts in a position that is not the best ergonomically like reaching and lifting, and you get chronic pain, Toyota's doctors will do everything they can to convince you that it's an old football injury, whether you played football or not. I shit you not. It's happened to nearly everyone out here. Out here, truth really is stranger than fiction.

Edited January 26, 2006 by Labor Warrior

[foxrun]

just like Americans were buying domestic cars under the flawed perception that they were of superior quality to imported vehicles for decades. Besides, differences in quality are statistical and minimal - like i've said before, when someone has owned or known people who have owned toyotas trouble-free for several years, that's going to carry more weight than quality surveys showing Ford with 129 defects per 100 vehicles and Toyota at 131 defects per 100 vehicles. The worse part is when you compare across brands, these "better" results aren't even consistent (especially for GM!).

 

it's not about wanting to see a business fail, it's about people doing what they believe is best for them. People don't like supporting someone who has ripped them off, even if it was 10, 15 years ago. Capitalism doesn't reward nationalities (American, Japanese, Chinese), it rewards performance in an environment. This kind of thing (weaker players getting pushed out) has happened before, the only difference now is that it's foreign-based companies that are doing the pushing.

 

Your right capitalism rewards performance in an enviroment. It waits for nothing and runs over the weak or slow. It rewards the best and shuns the stragglers. The world really is just black and white and the sooner we accept that the sooner capitalism will hand us utopia on a silver plater.

 

 

 

'YOU CAN BE TERMINATED FOR ANY REASON OR NO REASON" That's in our wonderful "team" member handbook.

 

 

WOW laborwarrior can you prove this in anyway. It would go a long way to what you want. Can you show us this hand book or some how prove your boss said such a thing?

[Kev-Mo]

Now that Toyota is #1, this story would make a great 60 Minutes piece...How can we all help get the news out?

[BioDiesel]

Your right capitalism rewards performance in an enviroment. It waits for nothing and runs over the weak or slow. It rewards the best and shuns the stragglers. The world really is just black and white and the sooner we accept that the sooner capitalism will hand us utopia on a silver plater.

'YOU CAN BE TERMINATED FOR ANY REASON OR NO REASON" That's in our wonderful "team" member handbook.

WOW laborwarrior can you prove this in anyway. It would go a long way to what you want. Can you show us this hand book or some how prove your boss said such a thing?

Whats so hard to believe????? My wife is a nurse here in Michigan. All of the jobs she's had are considered "at will". As an" at will" employee you can be terminated for any or no reason at all. It's a fact Jack.

[marc-o]

Fact is, generally speaking, the choice is becoming having a "temp" job or having no job. That's just the way things are now, for a lot of reasons. It's unfortunate, but the UAW is just now having to deal with the reality a lot of people have been experiencing since the 1980's.

 

Your right capitalism rewards performance in an enviroment. It waits for nothing and runs over the weak or slow. It rewards the best and shuns the stragglers. The world really is just black and white and the sooner we accept that the sooner capitalism will hand us utopia on a silver plater.

'YOU CAN BE TERMINATED FOR ANY REASON OR NO REASON" That's in our wonderful "team" member handbook.

 

I'm not sure if you're sarcastic or not... I dont agree with a lot of capitalism's basic ideals, but that's the environment we are working in and like it or not politicians and leaders backing it up (as opposed to socialism, for example) - these politicians were elected by us, so obviously a majority agrees enough to "believe" in capitalism... so what's going on now should come as no surprise. I agree in principle though... capitalism does reward the best and shuns stragglers - the thing is some Americans (UAW members in this case) didn't seem to have a problem with that until they became the stragglers... then everything changed. hmmmm...

Edited January 26, 2006 by marc-o

[Jared Jackson]

Fact is, generally speaking, the choice is becoming having a "temp" job or having no job. That's just the way things are now, for a lot of reasons. It's unfortunate, but the UAW is just now having to deal with the reality a lot of people have been experiencing since the 1980's.

I'm not sure if you're sarcastic or not... I dont agree with a lot of capitalism's basic ideals, but that's the environment we are working in and like it or not politicians and leaders backing it up (as opposed to socialism, for example) - these politicians were elected by us, so obviously a majority agrees enough to "believe" in capitalism... so what's going on now should come as no surprise. I agree in principle though... capitalism does reward the best and shuns stragglers - the thing is some Americans (UAW members in this case) didn't seem to have a problem with that until they became the stragglers... then everything changed. hmmmm...

 

 

This has nothing to do with stragglers. hmmmm.... The vast majority of pro-union workers at TMMK are the hardest working people out here. I don't know how it is where you are, but we all work very hard out here in Georgetown. Implying that UAW members are somehow lazy is another case of backwards, butt-kissing, don't know your --- from a hole in the ground type of attitude. Don't try to make this a case of democrats vs. Republicans or Socialist vs. Capitalists. It ain't gonna fly here. The "reality" is that if the company that you work for makes billions of dollars every quarter in profit, then logic dictates that the worker be rewarded for that kind of effort. Here at TMMK, we lose ground every year. We lost our sick days, we have no personal days, and more often than not, are looked down on if we even take vacation. If we wear a UAW T-shirt, then your computer, (if you have one) can be confiscated and then you are terminated because you had something other than what Toyota wants you to have on your hard drive. We've all seen it. However, management kowtows to the anti-union crowd like Marvin Robbins and Brian Howard, so-called leaders of the "truth finders", an anti-union propaganda machine designed to keep the "team" members from finding out the real benefits of union representation.

[Jared Jackson]

Your right capitalism rewards performance in an enviroment. It waits for nothing and runs over the weak or slow. It rewards the best and shuns the stragglers. The world really is just black and white and the sooner we accept that the sooner capitalism will hand us utopia on a silver plater.

'YOU CAN BE TERMINATED FOR ANY REASON OR NO REASON" That's in our wonderful "team" member handbook.

WOW laborwarrior can you prove this in anyway. It would go a long way to what you want. Can you show us this hand book or some how prove your boss said such a thing?

 

 

Any employment-at-will employee like ourselves has a handbook that states that no one has a contract, expressed or implied, to remain in TMMK's employ. TMMK may terminate a "team" members employment, without cause and with or without notice, at any time and for ANY REASON.

 

Foxrun, I couldn't find my latest policy handbook, (they change like the wind) but I have paraphrased closely what it says. This type of legalese is common in employment-at-will situations. In other words, we'll do what the hell we want to do, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. But, we do care about you, and we respect your opinion. Yeah...RIGHT!

[foxrun]

Any employment-at-will employee like ourselves has a handbook that states that no one has a contract, expressed or implied, to remain in TMMK's employ. TMMK may terminate a "team" members employment, without cause and with or without notice, at any time and for ANY REASON.

 

Foxrun, I couldn't find my latest policy handbook, (they change like the wind) but I have paraphrased closely what it says. This type of legalese is common in employment-at-will situations. In other words, we'll do what the hell we want to do, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. But, we do care about you, and we respect your opinion. Yeah...RIGHT!

 

OK when ever you do find it please take a digital photo and post it here. Would that be too hard?

 

Fact is, generally speaking, the choice is becoming having a "temp" job or having no job. That's just the way things are now, for a lot of reasons. It's unfortunate, but the UAW is just now having to deal with the reality a lot of people have been experiencing since the 1980's.

I'm not sure if you're sarcastic or not... I dont agree with a lot of capitalism's basic ideals, but that's the environment we are working in and like it or not politicians and leaders backing it up (as opposed to socialism, for example) - these politicians were elected by us, so obviously a majority agrees enough to "believe" in capitalism... so what's going on now should come as no surprise. I agree in principle though... capitalism does reward the best and shuns stragglers - the thing is some Americans (UAW members in this case) didn't seem to have a problem with that until they became the stragglers... then everything changed. hmmmm...

 

 

Nobody ever had a free vote on NAFTA, FTA, or WTO. There NEVER was a vote on it. In fact one of Canada's prime ministers was put into office in part as a result that he would not respect free trade and then signed on.

[marc-o]

Nobody ever had a free vote on NAFTA, FTA, or WTO. There NEVER was a vote on it. In fact one of Canada's prime ministers was put into office in part as a result that he would not respect free trade and then signed on.

 

True, I agree completely. Politicians acting at the time were operating under the assumption that we'd know what was good for us eventually, even if we didn't think so at the time. It's really tricky to put blame for this on any one person or event(s) without getting into a huge discussion about who really holds power in politics (people?). Obviously leaders make decisions without always consulting their constituents, as was the case here, however when we elect them (as majority parties), we're giving them the authority (whether we like it or not) to make these kinds of decisions despite our objections. The price they pay is the risk of not getting re-elected...

 

It's not ideal, but such are the limitations of our political systems (US and Canada). In my mind, it's easy to blame politicians, and yes they are guilty to some degree of ignoring public opinion, but at the end of the day we *are* the ones who elected them (Hitler was elected democratically, so was Hamas just yesterday). Sometimes unpopular decisions are made that work out for the better, but we don't go complaining much about those... gotta take the good with the bad i guess :mellow:

 

Any employment-at-will employee like ourselves has a handbook that states that no one has a contract, expressed or implied, to remain in TMMK's employ. TMMK may terminate a "team" members employment, without cause and with or without notice, at any time and for ANY REASON.

 

uhh... that's how it is at pretty much ANY workplace that doesn't have a union, which means somewhere north of 80% of jobs in the US and 70% of jobs in Canada. Employment at will legislation differs by province (in Canada), I'm not sure how it works in the US, but I can say that the specifics usually imply that companies have to give several weeks notice (depending on the circumstances) before hiring someone; unless of course they are somehow doing something illegal. In turn, the fair contract stipulates employees can also "abandon" the company or business with a few weeks' notice - so both sides have the same power.

 

Now if you want to get into an argument about how companies have the upper hand with employement at will contracts due to their size that's different, but this is HARDLY somethign where only Toyota has an advantage, it's the same thing with just about any major enterprise. If you don't like it, open your own business and be your own boss, that will solve your problem - that's life when you work for someone else...you're at their mercy... and make no mistake, the standard isn't unionized workers being able to dictate the conditions of their employment.

Edited January 27, 2006 by marc-o

[RichardJensen]

How big is the gap between Toyota and Ford when it comes to worker rights?

 

Compare the Toyota "Basic Principles of Human Resource Management" with Ford's "Code of Basic Working Conditions"

 

Toyota:

(1) Creating a workplace environment where employees can work with their trust in the company

· Stable employment where layoffs and dismissals are not readily made

· Steadily maintain and improve working conditions from a medium- to long-term perspective

· Ensure fairness and consistency

(2) Creating a mechanism for promoting constant and voluntary initiatives in continuous improvements

· Share the management mindset and sense of critical urgency through thorough communication

· Reflect business results in working conditions

(3) Fully committed and thorough human

resources development

· Promote personal growth through work

· Communication of the Toyota Way/role

(4) Promoting teamwork aimed at pursuit of individual roles and optimization of the entire team

· Thorough consensus building and achievement in single thrust

· Team results and creating a sense of unity

 

Ford:

This Code of Basic Working Conditions represents the commitment of Ford and its worldwide subsidiaries. The diverse group of men and women who work for Ford are our most important resource. In recognition of their contributions, we have developed policies and programs designed to ensure that our employees enjoy the protection afforded by the principles articulated today in this Code. While these principles are not new to Ford, they are vitally important to what we stand for as a company. Consequently, we have chosen to summarize them here in an expression of our global commitment.

 

This Code reflects our thorough review of labor standards espoused by various groups worldwide, including those outlined by the International Labor Organization. This Code, however, is intended to represent a statement of our own high standards.

 

The diverse universe in which Ford operates requires that a code such as this be general in nature. In certain situations, local legal requirements, collective bargaining agreements and agreements freely entered into by employees may supersede portions of this Code.

 

Nevertheless, we believe this Code affirms important, universal values that serve as the cornerstone of our relationship with employees.

 

Child labor

 

We will not use child labor. In no event will we employ any person below the age of 15, unless this is part of a government-authorized job training or apprenticeship program that would be clearly beneficial to the persons participating.

 

Compensation

 

We will promote our employees' material well-being by providing compensation and benefits that are competitive and comply with applicable law.

 

Forced labor

 

We will not use forced labor, regardless of its form. We will not tolerate physically abusive disciplinary practices.

 

Freedom of association and collective bargaining

 

We recognize and respect our employees' right to associate freely and bargain collectively. We will work constructively with recognized representatives to promote the interests of our employees. In locations where employees are not represented by unions, we will seek to provide opportunities for employee concerns to be heard.

 

Harassment and discrimination

 

We will not tolerate harassment or discrimination on the basis of sex, race, color, creed, religion, age, ethnic or national origin, marital/parental status, disability, sexual orientation or veteran status.

 

Health and safety

 

We will provide and maintain for all employees a safe and healthy working environment that meets or exceeds applicable standards for occupational safety and health.

 

Work hours

 

We will comply with applicable law regulating hours of work.

 

Responsibility and implementation

 

We will communicate this Code of Basic Working Conditions to all employees. As appropriate under local practice, we will seek the support and assistance of unions and employee representatives in this effort. We will encourage our business partners throughout our value chain to adopt and enforce similar policies. We will seek to identify and utilize business partners who aspire in the conduct of their business to standards that are consistent with this Code.

 

Employees with a good-faith belief that there may have been a violation of this Code should report it through established channels, if known, or to the Office of the General Counsel at fordlaw@ford.com . No retaliatory actions will be taken against any employee who makes such a report or cooperates in an investigation of such a violation reported by someone else.

 

Verification

 

We will, as appropriate, seek the assistance of independent third parties to verify our compliance with this Code.

One document contains specific metrics by which the company can be judged. The other is piffle. Hogwash. Mumbo-jumbo.

 

Just how out of touch is Toyota's management? This is one of the "highlights" of the Toyota sustainability report:

Since FY2002, greeting cards from the president have been sent to employees

and their families at the end of the year, and since FY2003, various work sites have

held workplace visits for families to facilitate communication between the workplace and home.

 

...

Edited January 27, 2006 by RichardJensen

[zoomerjrt]

Good question, Swenson. I'm not talking for everybody, obviously, but workman's comp is nothing much around here. If you go to www.uawtmmk.com you can talk and ask those questions to people who know more about it than I do. As for your second question, I have been at Toyota for 17 years and am in a field which, by the way, in Japan, is considered skilled, but here in Ky. it is not. I make 25 dollars an hour and have around 72,000 in my pension plan, which could take a nose dive since it and our 401k is tied to the stock market. There are no contracts and any one of us could lose the majority of everything we saved the day before we retire. The only contract between us and them is the edict that management always tell us: YOU CAN BE TERMINATED FOR ANY REASON OR NO REASON" That's in our wonderful "team" member handbook.

 

Wildosvt couldn't have said it better when he so eloquently described how difficult it is to get workman's comp from Toyota. If you have been put on a line, for example, lifting crankshafts in a position that is not the best ergonomically like reaching and lifting, and you get chronic pain, Toyota's doctors will do everything they can to convince you that it's an old football injury, whether you played football or not. I shit you not. It's happened to nearly everyone out here. Out here, truth really is stranger than fiction.

This does suck for you!! But on a side note, the UAW only protects the lazy, drunks and medical comps. Good works that show up everyday are pushed to the back of the line. Also what was your profit sharing check for 04 and 05? Mine was around $80.00

[Bluecon]

OK when ever you do find it please take a digital photo and post it here. Would that be too hard?

Nobody ever had a free vote on NAFTA, FTA, or WTO. There NEVER was a vote on it. In fact one of Canada's prime ministers was put into office in part as a result that he would not respect free trade and then signed on.

Which Prime Minister was that?

 

It all seems black and white. The CAW/UAW should go down to the Toyota plant and Unionize it.

All the workers would happily sign on to the union.

Edited January 28, 2006 by Bluecon

[Peon]

This does suck for you!! But on a side note, the UAW only protects the lazy, drunks and medical comps. Good works that show up everyday are pushed to the back of the line. Also what was your profit sharing check for 04 and 05? Mine was around $80.00

 

 

What profit sharing? Don't think we American Toyota workers get any type of profit sharing, and our wage increases for the last few years haven't come close to keeping up with the cost of living.

[DRODMOTORS]

Quit yer bitchin'. Like any job in this country, no one is forcing you to go to work every day with a gun to your head. If you don't like the job, then just leave.

[Jared Jackson]

This does suck for you!! But on a side note, the UAW only protects the lazy, drunks and medical comps. Good works that show up everyday are pushed to the back of the line. Also what was your profit sharing check for 04 and 05? Mine was around $80.00

 

We don't get profit sharing