ANTAUS Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 ARTICLE LINK Link corrected by staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Linky no worky. :-) http://detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...320/1148/AUTO01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcsario Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 while the (MKZzz) will never be compared with a BMW Three Series or an Acura TL in the handling department, it is certainly a match for the likes of the Honda Accord Says it all, really LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KinneticBrian Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Great article and the writer makes some very good points. One - the focus on "quiet engineering" which has served Lexus very well. Back in the halcyon days of Lincoln's past, one thing that was repeatedly emphasized in the battle between Lincoln and Cadillac was that the Lincolns were, across the board, quieter. This emphasis on quiet engineering marks a return to the DNA that makes a Lincoln a Lincoln. Some bemoan the idea that the Lincoln MKZ will never be compared to a BMW or Acura. America doesn't need another BMW or Acura, we have them already and at least one automaker (Cadillac) trying to emulate the imports. Having driven a new BMW 3-series recently, I fail to see what makes this car so impressive that it's the "be all end all" of autodom. Weighed in the balance of automotive excellence, the MKZ is every bit as capable and for much less money when comparably equipped. Lincoln needs to go forward as a company building great American cars. Two - The new head of Lincoln has a goal of "unpretentious luxury". That again is taking Lincoln back to the DNA that makes a Lincoln uniquely a Lincoln and something that was lost sometime ago. My Marks are far from discreet in their styling, but as compared to a 1970's Eldorado...well... enough said. Even my 1988 Town Car's styling has stood the test of time better than a comparable Cadillac Brougham. The next step is going to be getting product to market that keeps the design disciplines in mind while improving continually. Lincoln needs to bring the MKS out, and then follow with a RWD Continental and perhaps a Mustang GT based Mark IX roadster. Lincoln executives must know that turning this company around isn't going to be that difficult, what Lincoln enthusiasts (myself included) must remember is that it will take time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waymondospiff Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Says it all, really LOL Looking at the preceding & following text, the quote is put into context. He's talking solely about the ride & handling type - the 3-Series & TL are regarded as some of the best handling vehicles in the class. The author then says the MKZ is more like the Accord/Camry/Altima ride & handling trade-off - more comfort than a 3-Series, but still decent handling. Though the newest Lincoln models have their shortcomings, collectively they present clear signs of progress for a famous Detroit brand name that has been stuck in the doldrums for way too long. This is about as good as we're gonna find regarding the new Lincoln lineup. While the MKZ & MKX represent a good first step, my fear is that they're the only step we're going to see. The MKS & MK-Fairlane are going to have to be quite good and a step-up in execution.... What would we be saying today if Cadillac only had made the CTS and never produced a new STS, SRX, or XLR? It'd be pretty lousy. But Cadillac has continued to improve each product (For example, the new SRX interior is quite a step-up for Cadillac.) I hope Lincoln, even without a Sigma-like chassis, will continue to step-up their game. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 (edited) Cadillac has continued to improve each product I wouldn't call the STS an improvement on the CTS. If anything, it is an overreach. What was acceptable refinement wise on the CTS just isn't on a vehicle priced $10k higher. By concentrating on 'quiet', by cosseting passengers Lincoln goes back to what luxury once meant, and also chooses the path of 'least resistance'. Ford's chassis engineers can take the already stout D3 chassis and massage it into 9/10ths S-Class at half the price, and have a real winner. Far better to do that, than to make a 7/10ths 5-Series for about the same price. Also, turning Lincoln into a pure luxury marque is arguably easier than doing anything else, and will re-establish Lincoln's credibility vs. Lexus/MB faster than trying to turn it into a peformance player, vs. BMW, Acura, Infiniti, Audi, and Cadillac. Edited November 13, 2006 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swenson88 Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 I agree with this approach. A luxurious, smooth, quiet vehicle will have much broader appeal than some Lincoln attempt at being a 3-Series or Acura. A Lincoln should ooze luxury, should make potholes something you see but don't feel, should be silent in operation, and should move effortlessly. It doesn't need to pull 1.0g on a skidpad, it should be calm and composed. Sure, once they get the basics down they should build a nice sports sedan, but that should come second to luxury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 It is possible to design a very smooth riding but good handling car. Not great handling, but respectable. It requires more advanced design than softer springs, but it can be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WC-MAN Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 I always enjoy the handling argument. Okay, quick poll, how many people carved the corners on a country back raod today? Anyone? Okay, how many drove a stretch of four-lane highway? Point made. Yes, you need enough handling to successfully pull off emergency manuvers or negotiate an off-ramp, but the average car owner never carves anything more than a mall parking lot. I'm glad to see Lincold actually focus on cars for a change. The real proof is in four years though. Will Lincoln leave the current cars on the market too long, or will they be refreshed in a timely manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted November 14, 2006 Author Share Posted November 14, 2006 I'm not on-board with the "unpretensious luxury" idealism that Lincoln is aiming for. Last time I spoke to some BMW, Audi, and MBenz buyers, they bought it because it is pretencious...in your face...it's about the emblem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue II Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 The MKS will be the more "in your face" car. The 3.5 GTTDI will notch things up a bit with AWD as well. A Mustang based coupe with IRS should arive in 2010. It will have a tuned up 4.6 3V. I think both of these cars should get the Acura and BMW crowd's attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68Cougar Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 I always enjoy the handling argument. Okay, quick poll, how many people carved the corners on a country back raod today? Anyone? I love going through the curves with a car that has good handling. It can be hard to find stretches like that, but when I do I enjoy them. It's just different strokes for different folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEPSF Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 "...Town Car still lurks in the background but it survives only to serve out an audience that is headed into extinction..." Oh really? If that's so, then why are Chrysler bringing out LWB 300's? Some of us may never purchase a Lincoln Town Car, but we hire them to take us to dinners & holiday parties, the airport & the cruise terminal... ...it wouldn't take $100 Million to update Town Car during the move north to Canada with more aggressive styling reminiscent of the late 60's/early 70's Continentals, IRS, and a LWB-Only body-style with the sunroof over the backseat (a-la- 1976-1989 Aston Martin Lagonda). Then if Lincoln are serious about appealing to private buyers, another $100 Million should enable them to re-introduce the 4-door convertible (very do-able on the Panther platform plus the rear-headrest & side-curtain airbag technology from Volvo C70) and bring some passion back to Lincoln. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kach22i Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 From the article: The brand is also trying to make its mark with all-wheel-drive, traditionally the preserve of much more prestigious European luxury namesplates, notably Audi. There we go, a plan! I've been saying they should do this since 2001 when I first started posting in this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETSOLVER Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 An older gent of my aquaintance once told me that Lincoln's are for people that have class, and Cad's are for those who wish to attain it. Having said that, the Cadillac recreation is far advanced from the mess recently at Lincoln... More product, faster would be good. And for crying out loud Ford, it is the Audi interior/driver interface that allowed them the breathing space to fix the engineering/roadholding. Do not cheap out again. Fire an accountant or two and hire a materials specialist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 The MKS will be the more "in your face" car. The 3.5 GTTDI will notch things up a bit with AWD as well. A Mustang based coupe with IRS should arive in 2010. It will have a tuned up 4.6 3V. I think both of these cars should get the Acura and BMW crowd's attention. OMG IRS in a MUSTANG! Say it ain't so! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one2gamble Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 OMG IRS in a MUSTANG! Say it ain't so! he didnt, he said IRS in a Lincoln Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 "...Town Car still lurks in the background but it survives only to serve out an audience that is headed into extinction..." I think you took that comment out of context. He meant the older clientel that typically purchase those vehicles, not the livery business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 he didnt, he said IRS in a Lincoln You missed my sarcasm...I'm sure if they do IRS in a Lincoln, it will find its way into a Mustang model Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sixcav Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Oh whatever boys. The light at the end of the tunnel is a train!!! In the next 12 to 18 months there will be so many new and exciting vehicles coming to market and guess what, not a single one of them has a Ford, Mercury or Lincoln logo on them. Honda is redesigning the Accord and the Accord Coupe, the photos I've seen make it clear it will blow away anything Ford has to offer. The 07 Altima is already a better car than the Fusion ever thought about being. I drove one the other day. It offers features and options not even avialable on a Fusion. Next summer the Altima coupe will hit the lots, much resembeling a G35. It's a really nice car. A Fusion coupe in the wings? Nope. The Dodge Calibur is already a hit, any half ass redesign on the Focus is not going to be enough. Agian, here's a vehicle that offers features no Focus ever thought about for the same price range. Unlike some of you around here I think the new Dodge Avenger will be pretty successful. VW is going to bring a new Scirocco to the market, a car they promise will be both affordable and sexy. I've seen the green concept, it's pretty nice. The Jetta and Golf are already nice cars and there is nothing in the entire Ford empire to compare with them except for the Mazda 3 vs Golf arrangement. Mazda and Volvo are the only bright spots in this entire Ford mess. The Lancer Evo X photos I've seen is pure sex. It's a truly beautiful car. Again, Ford is not even in the fight. The 08 Malibu is going to be a bad ass car and apparently GM is committed to ensuring the interior lives up to the great looking exterior. It's corporate cousins the Aura and G6 are already nice cars, better than anything Ford has to offer. While I'm on the subject the Sky / Solstice cars are a hit and once again Ford is not even in the fight. The Hyundai Azera has a better looking package than the Ford 500 and you can get one loaded up for what you would pay for a mid-level 500. Personally I think the Sonata is a better looking car than the Fusion and it certainly has a better warranty. When the Camaro and Challenger cars hit the lots the Mustang is going to be yesterdays news. The Mustang is about the only bright spot in the Ford passenger car lineup and even then you better opt for the V6 package because the GT is overpriced shit. I think the new HHR panel van option is going to be a good seller, and of course once agian, Ford isn't in the fight. When Toyota introduced the Scion cars, Ford wasn't in the fight, they still arent. Scions XB and XA will be discontinued in December and redesigned. The concept photos of the new versions I've seen are pretty nice. Ford still isn't in the fight and apparently doesn't plan to be. The Mazda 6 is undergoing it's redesign but the spy photos don't reveal enough to really tell anything except that it's bigger. But alas, it doesn't matter because at the end of the month Mazda's sales figures do not count in with the rest of Ford. So like I said, there's a lot of exciting cars coming to the market over the next 12 to 18 months, and some that are already here. None of them belong to the blue oval who are apparently devoid of any good ideas. This is a loser ass company with loser ass products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanatWork Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 (edited) Damn, that got so boring within two sentences that my eyes crossed and I started dozing! Allow me to translate: Mr. "Def Comedy Jam" says Ford has no cool vehicles coming out...essentially, ever, and that Ford is "out of the game". For what it's worth, I didn't see any F-bombs in the first couple of lines... Edited December 7, 2006 by ZanatWork Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 I see he got out of the pentaly box...guess I'll start using this handy dandy ignore feature since he doesn't have anything worth while to say, besides Ford sucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanatWork Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 (edited) Damn, I forgot about that! Edited December 7, 2006 by ZanatWork Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sixcav Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 (edited) Don't be mad because it's true pom pom boys. It's so obvious. Edited December 10, 2006 by Sixcav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanatWork Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 (edited) Yep, I shoulda done that earlier...I already had the lemon and otis idiots on that, so this makes the TRIO OF IGNORANCE! Poor little guy's probably steamed that I got into the penalty box first.... Edited December 7, 2006 by ZanatWork Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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