Cobra12 Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 United We Stand Divided We Fall Those six words are what a union should stand by. As soon as a Two Tier system was put into place, the workforce was divided thus dividing the union. Tier 1 wants a raise as they should. Tier 2 wants to be equal with Tier 1 as they should also. We need to stop fighting against each other and instead fight with and for each other. We cant get everything we want in the next contract but if we stand together we can make it better then what we have. Every one of us needs to stop blaming our elected reps, or the other tier. The reps are not the union, WE all are what make the union. Everyone of us has the ability to make our union stronger. I fight for and with all my union brothers and sister. It wont be right to work in Michigan that kills the unions, it will be the fact that we were to busy fighting each other. Lets stand up in arms together to make sure this does not happen. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I agree with your sentiment, however I fear you are just preaching upon deaf ears. There's too many old timers still around who are all about what's best for themselves to think about what's best for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlecountry Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Tier 2 employees divided the workforce by thinking they are owed the world! Most of them have no clue about anything. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlecountry Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I agree with your sentiment, however I fear you are just preaching upon deaf ears. There's too many old timers still around who are all about what's best for themselves to think about what's best for everyone. The old timers gave concessions so you little grunts could have a job and now your ungrateful. We give up and you grunts just want want want! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Explain to me exactly how we divided the workforce, when next to none of us were around when it started? You don't know me, and never will, so how can you call me ungrateful? There's plenty of people worse than me. All I'm guilty of is showing my ass up to work every day, putting my 10 hours on the line in and going home. I can name at least a dozen people on my line alone that can't even handle that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Please refrain from name calling and personal attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maislebandit Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 The OP has the right idea here. The company has created the environment for division. With the division, the company can conquer. They love seeing all this infighting. Tier two needs to understand this and realize that if we fight TOGETHER, we can abolish the separation. Tier one needs to understand what's happening to the younger brothers and sisters is NOT RIGHT and we need to DEMAND unity. This can become a superheated issue with a lot of emotion. I'm guessing you don't want things getting to the point of personal attacks and name calling, which I completely agree. It's just not there yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Little grunts is getting close. I'm just asking that you don't take it any further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
focusfrank Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Tier 2 employees divided the workforce by thinking they are owed the world! Most of them have no clue about anything. Tier 1 created the Tier 2 system by voting yes on it so explain to me how tier 2 is to blame for something that was voted yes on by tier 1?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
focusfrank Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 The OP has the right idea here. The company has created the environment for division. With the division, the company can conquer. They love seeing all this infighting. Tier two needs to understand this and realize that if we fight TOGETHER, we can abolish the separation. Tier one needs to understand what's happening to the younger brothers and sisters is NOT RIGHT and we need to DEMAND unity. This can become a superheated issue with a lot of emotion. I'm guessing you don't want things getting to the point of personal attacks and name calling, which I completely agree. It's just not there yet. The company DIDN'T CREATE THIS DIVIDE... They simply came to the bargaining table with this tier 2 system and it was TIER 1 that voted yes on it stop blaming the company for this tier 2 system. Had tier 1 voted it down it would not be in place now. So stop blaming the company for this divide. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uaintworkin Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 The two-tier system was voted in because it enabled us to kick the can down the road and make it someone else's problem. I am not saying it was a good thing, but it is here. If the second tier wants first tier wages, it is ignorant to say that first tier wages are "wrong." How could it be wrong if that's what you agreed to when you were hired? There are other good arguments but not "wrong." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maislebandit Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 The company DIDN'T CREATE THIS DIVIDE... They simply came to the bargaining table with this tier 2 system and it was TIER 1 that voted yes on it stop blaming the company for this tier 2 system. Had tier 1 voted it down it would not be in place now. So stop blaming the company for this divide.I have to disagree. The tier disparity occurred during a concessionary blitz. They purposely put things to a vote to create this mess. That's an old trick of theirs. They once had a vote for 2 plants to "come back" to Ford. By voting yes it equivocally shut down other plants. Pit people against themselves. Believe what you want but the company goes after concessions in any fashion it can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
focusfrank Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I have to disagree. The tier disparity occurred during a concessionary blitz. They purposely put things to a vote to create this mess. That's an old trick of theirs. They once had a vote for 2 plants to "come back" to Ford. By voting yes it equivocally shut down other plants. Pit people against themselves. Believe what you want but the company goes after concessions in any fashion it can.[/quote Admit it, tier 1 agreed to the tier 2 system because it didn't directly effect them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
focusfrank Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I have to disagree. The tier disparity occurred during a concessionary blitz. They purposely put things to a vote to create this mess. That's an old trick of theirs. They once had a vote for 2 plants to "come back" to Ford. By voting yes it equivocally shut down other plants. Pit people against themselves. Believe what you want but the company goes after concessions in any fashion it can.[/quote Admit it, tier 1 agreed to the tier 2 system because it didn't directly effect them. I agree the company always goes after concessions but its up to the members to vote it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decker Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 People, really, the train of thought in a few of these posts is just slightly wrong. "The Company" never puts anything to a vote... "We" under the direction of the IUAW (it`s the best we could get... you should be thankfull you have a job...) is what put the two tiers in place. Untill the sheep realize that they are not going to a picnic in any other way than the main course... "we" will be sold for penny`s a pound to the company by our so call sheep dogs. The sheep are about 8 months away from another picnic and the company is setting the table with the best faux promises possible and our wolves (in sheep dog costumes) are already working on which words to leave out and how to water down the facts to make a great tasting Half Truth BBQ sauce for the lamb chops..... Think about the foundation that has been laid at the last picnic. The sheep proved to the company and the world, our hourly rate is double what it should be by having people do our operations for half of what we are recieving for the last four years. Ever wonder why you won`t pay double for something? Well, the wolves (in those sheep dog costumes) have helped the sheep prove to the company and the world (southern politicans) that these jobs of ours are over paid. With four years of paying half, how long would it take anyone to realize they don`t want to pay double for lamb chops...? Get ready sheeps.... guess who`s comin to dinner. Decker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
focusfrank Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 People, really, the train of thought in a few of these posts is just slightly wrong. "The Company" never puts anything to a vote... "We" under the direction of the IUAW (it`s the best we could get... you should be thankfull you have a job...) is what put the two tiers in place. Untill the sheep realize that they are not going to a picnic in any other way than the main course... "we" will be sold for penny`s a pound to the company by our so call sheep dogs. The sheep are about 8 months away from another picnic and the company is setting the table with the best faux promises possible and our wolves (in sheep dog costumes) are already working on which words to leave out and how to water down the facts to make a great tasting Half Truth BBQ sauce for the lamb chops..... Think about the foundation that has been laid at the last picnic. The sheep proved to the company and the world, our hourly rate is double what it should be by having people do our operations for half of what we are recieving for the last four years. Ever wonder why you won`t pay double for something? Well, the wolves (in those sheep dog costumes) have helped the sheep prove to the company and the world (southern politicans) that these jobs of ours are over paid. With four years of paying half, how long would it take anyone to realize they don`t want to pay double for lamb chops...? Get ready sheeps.... guess who`s comin to dinner. Decker Very Well Said.... I'd like to add, the company puts forth their proposal of what they want on the contract and its up to the IUAW to agree if that's what it finds acceptable to bring to its members for a vote. If they find it unacceptable for its members to vote on they tell the company that it won't bring it to vote and in turn if it find it acceptable than they bring it to its members for vote. The members regardless of if your tier 1 or tier 2 have to stop believing this B.S. that its union representatives keep telling them placing the blame on that company for the tier system and also for no raises in over 10 yrs. If the IUAW was really looking out for our best interest it would have never brought a tier system and no raise on proposal to its members for vote on during the last contract. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTPrt Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I may be wrong, but weren't we to consider, during this concession blitz, that by agreeing to a 2 Tier system, that we wouldn't have to take a reduction in pay? . . . I seem to remember that we could have had our wage rates $18 - $23 per hour. . . The 2 Tier System seemed like a correct move for all concerned, since if we could improved our workforce, there would be a better chance that we all could begin to get these Part Timers and 2nd Tier people to Full Time and parity if the plants remained open and manpower was strengthen for the Union. . . I'm a 1st Tier and would have no problem fighting for 2nd Tier people. . . By the comments, it looks like they want to throw me under the F-150. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I may be wrong, but weren't we to consider, during this concession blitz, that by agreeing to a 2 Tier system, that we wouldn't have to take a reduction in pay? . . . I seem to remember that we could have had our wage rates $18 - $23 per hour. . . The 2 Tier System seemed like a correct move for all concerned, since if we could improved our workforce, there would be a better chance that we all could begin to get these Part Timers and 2nd Tier people to Full Time and parity if the plants remained open and manpower was strengthen for the Union. . . I'm a 1st Tier and would have no problem fighting for 2nd Tier people. . . By the comments, it looks like they want to throw me under the F-150. I have total respect for you (and frank) for having the balls to openly support tier 2 workers, something nobody else seems to want to do. That being said I do have one issue I feel like both the company and IUAW both knew when the contract was ratified it was heavily weighted so that tier 2 workers would never be able to roll over into tier 1. It hasn't happened yet (though the gap is closer than I've seen it since I was hired) and all they have to do to avoid it is hire a few more people at Rawsonville and voila. I have a bigger issue with the fact that even if nothing changes the next contact, the union is still going to force feed the false hope of being able roll over to our faces, and behind our backs allow ford to screw us over. I've even heard rumors that our plant chairman doesn't even want 2nd tier workers around at all. The mere fact that that rumor exists indicates massive problems on the union side of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decker Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 fuzzymoomoo "I've even heard rumors that our plant chairman doesn't even want 2nd tier workers around at all. The mere fact that that rumor exists indicates massive problems on the union side of things." I can`t agree more with you Moo. What we have is a "house divided" far from the solidarity claims that we hear from the IUAW. Unfortunately this division is acually tilted in the IUAW`s favor through the intimidation methods. I`ve yet to speak with a chairman or unit that goes along with the IUAW claims. But, untill the sheep can look beyond the hollow promises of the past and start to put some facts together we all will be voted into a future of less.... Everything. Decker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
focusfrank Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 fuzzymoomoo "I've even heard rumors that our plant chairman doesn't even want 2nd tier workers around at all. The mere fact that that rumor exists indicates massive problems on the union side of things." I can`t agree more with you Moo. What we have is a "house divided" far from the solidarity claims that we hear from the IUAW. Unfortunately this division is acually tilted in the IUAW`s favor through the intimidation methods. I`ve yet to speak with a chairman or unit that goes along with the IUAW claims. But, untill the sheep can look beyond the hollow promises of the past and start to put some facts together we all will be voted into a future of less.... Everything. Decker The fact that the IUAW agreed to allow some plants that have tier 2 workers excluded from the total count When figuring in the percentage of tier 2 workers FMC has tells you that they don't care for the best interest of its members. We should all stick together on this. Just like when they increased our Union dues without a vote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra12 Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 I don't blame tier1, in fact I thank them for voteing how they did at the time. In a way it was very smart. It allowed for more people to be added to the union body. Now we that make up the body have to make it stronger. Tier 1 voting how they did was smart because it kept the pay and benifit "celing" high. If they would have taken cuts it would have lowered the goal for everyone. Tier2 should latch on to tier1 and say help me get to where you are. Tier1 shoul grab onto tier2 and say help me protect what I already have. If we do that we become a stronger Union. A strong union can chip away at the division of the tiered system. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I don't blame tier1, in fact I thank them for voteing how they did at the time. In a way it was very smart. It allowed for more people to be added to the union body. Now we that make up the body have to make it stronger. Tier 1 voting how they did was smart because it kept the pay and benifit "celing" high. If they would have taken cuts it would have lowered the goal for everyone. Tier2 should latch on to tier1 and say help me get to where you are. Tier1 shoul grab onto tier2 and say help me protect what I already have. If we do that we become a stronger Union. A strong union can chip away at the division of the tiered system. Holy shit, I couldn't have said that any better myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTPrt Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 This is a new era . . . There were people who died on a bridge in Dearborn for me . . . Then there was a time that I walked the picket lines in rain and cold in the 70's for profit sharing, wages and job security. At that time the company matched our TESPHE. We enjoyed much. . . It was old timers who yelled to Bob King not to give so much away, so that those who came after us will be secure. . . The younger ones wanted the $1000 signing bonus . . . The Concessions came . . . I spoke to many of the 2nd Tier as they arrive not to be disheartened. They are more smarter then any of those before them. . . Now is their time to leverage and fight . . . Don't expect to be given anything and expect less. . . Fight! Make it YOUR Union. . . Just please don't sacrifice those of us who fought before you. . . We wanted you to be 2nd. Tier to get you in. It may take not this Contract but the next to get your footing and your New Union to find your place . . . The economy is still fragile. . . The Union is divided and weak right now . . . Put YOUR people in and fight for what is needed . . . I've seen it done. I 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra12 Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 Well said DTPrt. We are only weak because most choose to be. Most people would rather sit around and complain insted of act. We all need to stand up and act to fix what we complain about every day. If everyone fought together we could make this a strong proud Union again. If you have a "bad" union rep, read the contract books. When properly informed on the contract you are a more powerful member. You can't protect your rights if you don't know them properly. You don't have to memorize the books, but make sure you know where to find answers to your problems. We need to be each other's keepers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra12 Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 Dhysvrdschd F D21)!? R Hahuai2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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