[Hemiman]

cip, on Oct 30 2006, 03:46 AM, said:

You guys bitchin' about the 500 are nuts. Sure it isn't a Panther body but it has a much room inside and feels a lot more solid. I know, I've driven them all. The 3.0 isn't a hi-po engine but it gets the job done with decent mileage and good performance. A 427 Galaxie it's not!! Complain about the CVT, you don't know what you're talking about. It's a good trans and better than the 6 spped. Too big? you've got to be kidding. There is plenty of room but the car NEVER feels big. It handles and stops well, is quiet as a mouse, and the fit and finish on the 2 I had was almost perfect. Ugly? maybe but so is the Avalon and Camry (except for the newest ones)but no one complains about them. I wish Ford updated the styling a lot sooner than next year. John DeLorean said you can sell a young mans car to an old guy but not the other way around. I wish Ford would take his advice.

I've driven them. Tried to get my Dad to buy one. It is not quiet as a mouse. The 3.0 has to wind up to get the mass of the car moving, and it IS loud under load. I think the engineering is top notch but the short commings, UGLY & UNDER POWERED, eclipse the greatness of the platform.

427 Galaxie it's not, is correct. 240 six Galaxie is more like it. But keep in mind, that same Galaxie that could be had with the 240 six or 427 2X4bbl was also avalible with a 289, 3 different 390's, & two 428's. HP ranged from 155 for the six to 425 for the 427. (1967 model yr.)

Ford really fumbled the ball, (about ten yards fron the goal line) on this one, and has been aginizingly slow in addressing the issues.

PS. My Dad bought a Buick

This post has been edited by Hemiman: 30 October 2006 - 08:28 AM

[Walt]

taxman100, on Oct 30 2006, 12:54 AM, said:

Also, a lot of people know it is just a reworked Volvo - what pride is there in owning something like that?

I don't know... to me that would be a "plus". Well, at least if safety was near the top of your "must have" list.

[630land]

My dad bought a Buick too. But it is not any RWD muscle car that people think 'everyone' wants to buy.

Also, this whole crying over the Taurus is old, old, old. They expect complete govermental control of the car biz, with banned imports, fixed prices, and subsidized rental car sales.

It's like an article in Detroit News. Time to grow up and not expect 'entitilement' since you shwo up and amke lame ass 20 year old designed cars for rentals and used car auctions.

I couldn't care less that some laid off overpaid autoworker now has to sell his boat or project car. While teachers are underpaid, and cops die every day. Go learn about the real world & get a real job

[lukemullen]

For years the auto press harped on the American sedan as relying too much on styling and not enough on substance. The '96 Taurus was a perfect example of function following form. Whether you hated it or not, it at least had styling, unlike the mid-90s Accords, Maximas, and Camrys. But the auto press concentrated on the lack of rear seat room and the sloping trunk lid that cut into cargo space. Fast forward to the release of the Five Hundred, a car that by any measure should be exactly the type of car a mainstream sedan should be. Safe, great room, made with quality materials, assembled well, reasonably good performance, a variety of features, and a superb value. But look what happened; the auto press concentrated on conservative styling instead of the goodness beneith the skin, and the car is going the way of the Taurus in the late 90s. There really does seem to be a strong bias in the press against American vehicles, and while it may not be the main reason for the stigma many people place on American vehicles, the press it at least exacerbating the situation.

[laserwizard]

Pardon me if I have missed something by not watching the video. I find the remarks here far more illustrative than what anyone else could bring to the table - afterall, we are people who bleed Ford blue....

I'm a lifelong Ford owner, son of a lifelong Ford owner, and have nothing to complain about with regard to Ford. My dad has put over 250,000 miles on his second Ford pickup (he's had three: a 1975, a 1990, and a 1994 - the 1990 he didn't like the color after four years and traded). Mom has had a 1973 Torino station wagon with 175,000 miles on it and traded for a 1989 T-Bird that had 90,000 miles before she bought a 2005 Focus Wagon - something with better gas mileage and "not so much car").

Perhaps I'm easily satisfied. My 1997 Ford Escort, built in August of 1996, has given me 118,000 miles of constant performance and only has seen the inside of a garage for oil changes, tire rotation and changes, and with brake work. Had this car not worn a blue oval on the front, it would have had all the trappings of a Honda.

I just don't get why Fords don't sell as well as they used to. I'd buy another Escort just like the one I have now in a heartbeat if it were sold today. I love my car and don't need another and that is why I'm not out shopping for my seventh Ford. This car is the best one I've ever owned (though I'd loved to have seen my old 1969 Mustang when it was new - but I digress).

When I sit in Toyotas and Hondas, I am not impressed. These vehicles are not comfortable for me to sit in even as a six foot tall man in his forties. GM cars have a malady of problems with regard to their dashboards intruding where my right knee wants to occupy.

I just don't get it.

With regard to the Taurus, I'm baffled at Ford for taking the system it had to create it in the first place - the benchmarking of the best in class and using all their features in one car - and not doing that with the next generation. I never liked the ovoid Taurus though I had a relative who got several hundred thousand miles of Honda-like service from one. It is perplexing that Ford spends so much time keeping the F-150 as the best in class (hands down, game over), but does so little to make its cars absolutely superb.

The Fusion is a nice step in the right direction and I have friends who own Five Hundreds who have no complaints about underpower or blandness - but then again, they are people who look for transportation, not flim flam. I'm impressed with the Edge and cannot wait to sit in one and to take one for a test drive.

There is no way in hades that I'll ever buy a Honda or Toyota (or a Chevrolet or a Dodge....) - Ford has earned another sale from me. I'm extremely happy that the gentleman from Boeing is now running Ford and that he has a clue as to what needs to be done. I'm also impressed with Mark Fields who also seems to have a clue - but those boneheads in the Nasser era really sold Ford down the road least chosen and now we know why no one goes there - it is a dead end.

I have every faith that Ford is turning around and that perhaps the Taurus was too far gone, neglected like a horse put out to pasture, to be resurrected with some meaning. And while the early Tauri were truly good in their day, they weren't perfect with engine maladies of their own. And perhaps today's Ford leaders, having to face the shock of how far they've slipped in so little time, will come to realize that Ford buyers aren't that much different from Toyota ones (though no one could be as obtuse and egotistical and plain nasty as Honda ones). And for all of the whining of the success of the Camry - just remember how awful that car used to be in its first and second iterations and how far it has come in the two plus decades of its lifespan. Perhaps we should afford Ford the same room to improve its cars as Toyota was given when it went from tin can to overhyped aluminum cans.

[Kev-Mo]

Monday morning quarterbacks!

The very same people who would NEVER buy or recommend a Taurus, are critical of Ford ford abandoning it.

The Taurus would never be cool again, a victim of it's own success, it became the everyday car that nobody wanted anymore. Nobody wants what everyone has already had.

Move forward with a new 500 and the tremendous potential of the Fusion (along with wagon versions of both) and get over the Taurus.

[Kev-Mo]

Sixcav, on Oct 31 2006, 02:23 PM, said:

You might have a good point their Kev-Mo, the only thing I would offer is, consider that Chevy has been making the Impala in one fashion or another since what? The early 60's was it? The Mustang has been around since 65. The Camry and Accord have been around as long the Taurus. So there could be a case made that just because it's been around a long time and become common place doesn't necessarily mean nobody want's it anymore. The Taurus however did suffer from not being updated, it got some bad press (some deserved some undeserved) but that was not the cars fault it was the fault of poor management. Ultimately I think you're right that they had no choice but to cancel the line, it had a stigma attached to it that it likely would never get over. Too bad really because it was a good car. My question now is this. Ford has a nice big assembly plant in Atlanta, that's not doing anything, why can't the build the Fusion there? Why can't they build 500's there?

Good post

"they had no choice but to cancel the line, it had a stigma attached to it that it likely would never get over."
I agree, that is the main point. Along with journalists who would never recommend or drive a Taurus lamenting its death.

The Camry and Accord may suffer the same problem after many years at #1 & 2. American consumers can be very fickle...

The 500 is built in Chicago...as for the Fusion, I wish it was assembled in USA, but then again some out of work Japanese guy probably wishes the Camry was still assembled in Japan. I am from the school of Roger Simmermake that says it is better to purchase foreign assembled American brand (except China) than an American assembled foreign brand. That is informational, and I hope there are no comments. We can agree to disagree, becasue the concept has been beat to death here on this site.

This post has been edited by Kev-Mo: 31 October 2006 - 04:50 PM

[AAPJGK1995]

630land, on Oct 30 2006, 12:19 PM, said:

My dad bought a Buick too. But it is not any RWD muscle car that people think 'everyone' wants to buy.

Also, this whole crying over the Taurus is old, old, old. They expect complete govermental control of the car biz, with banned imports, fixed prices, and subsidized rental car sales.

It's like an article in Detroit News. Time to grow up and not expect 'entitilement' since you shwo up and amke lame ass 20 year old designed cars for rentals and used car auctions.

I couldn't care less that some laid off overpaid autoworker now has to sell his boat or project car. While teachers are underpaid, and cops die every day. Go learn about the real world & get a real job

Hey 630
I am a former AAP employee and I really think that you can kiss my ass and every Auto worker in the USA along with it. I chose to be an autoworker and I do not feel that I am entitled to anything that i have not earned. The Taurus saved Ford's ass in the mid 80's and they left it out to rot but I can tell you this everyone that i knew worked like hell to get another car there at Atlanta. You talk about teachers and cops yes they should get more pay but that is what they choose to do. Overpaid autoworker, I do not think so when you look at the stress that we put our bodies through over time with 10hrs a day 5 days a week.You think we have it easy.Try putting on 280 wheels with 5 lugs each or hanging 138 front doors and that is just in the first 2 hrs then getting a 30 min break then or having break called an hr early and have to work for 3 and a half hrs before you go to your next 30 min break. I take it you have not worked at a body and assembly or you would not have made such a jack ass remark.
No it is not banned imports it is called a fair playing field and when they can manipulate the currency then that is how they can do it plus get around not having to pay certain import taxes.but i guess I have vented enough but i know that I will get the chance to write more later!

[96TownCarCartier]

I get so TIRED of seeing the same comments... "The 500 is boring, blah blah blah..."

What I have noticed is how many of them are on the roads...not a day passes that I dont see one, even to the point that when I'm with my mom, we both comment on them, such as what color it is, or simply just to say "There's another 500."

I think the design is just fine. So what if some think it's boring? Design alone does NOT sell cars. Keep in mind that Camry sold for years and it was certainly just as boring! The current design is absolutely UGLY and Honduh is going thru the same "boredom" problems in its designs. People buy for what a car has underneath the metal, rather than what it looks like.

Five Hundred has MORE interior room and MORE trunk room than any car on the road, more trunk space than Town Car! All in a package that you might think was smaller.

Police departments in Canada have been driving 500's since early 2005 as detective cars, and have had NO PROBLEMS with any of them since day one.

Fusion is winning awards everywhere it goes, just won another from the car experts at the shows in Boston. My fiancee and I are planning our next car purchase, and 500 and Fusion are at the top of the list. Taurus is a third choice...those are the only ones we're considering. A car like 500 or Fusion for under $25K? That's a super sweet deal even the Toyoders of the world can't offer.

[jasonj80]

630land, on Oct 30 2006, 11:19 AM, said:

While teachers are underpaid, and cops die every day. Go learn about the real world & get a real job

$85,000 a year, health insurance that makes a auto workers look like shit, plus cheap auto and Home insurance, no accountability, only work 9 months a year, every Holiday off, No over time. Did I mention No Accountability.... Education is a Joke in this country, and its thank to the Teachers Union. The UAW mentality that destroyed the Traditional Big 3 Auto Companies is the same mentality that is going on with Teachers today. But because of that Teachers are far from being underpaid -- they are more over paid than the Auto worker.

[voncoon]

We have a early 96 Taurus. Loved it when we ordered it, love it now. At ten years old plus, it still looks and drives like new. It has leather interior that is still beautiful,four wheel disc brakes, and I really think it is as good as anything Ford builds today. I get one mpg better consistently over a new Fusion v6. It's damn sure as quiet as the Fusion with all it's hype. Unfortunately Ford panicked when it did not take off in sales as they expected, and started pulling things off of the vehicle to make it cheaper. Just one look under the hood on the 96 Duretec compared to the cheapo pieces of the later Tauruses and other autos will kind of give you true vision of the quality throughout. Then somewhere along the line Ford did something to the suspension of the Taurus, that makes the earlier 96s a lot more fun to drive by comparison. Actually I don't understand why the auto buying public think apple box styling is so beautiful, but I guess that 's what they want. I would never have thought the basic styling of the AMC Gremlin and Pacer,slightly modified, would become the greatest thing in modern vehicles, and just as ugly to me. Ford was just ahead of it's time with the Taurus.

[Noah Harbinger]

jasonj80, on Nov 4 2006, 04:29 PM, said:

No over time...

You seem to have confused "No over time" with "3 hours of unpaid overtime daily, grading papers". Teachers around here max out at 50-60k. Their health plan is just an HMO plan, nothing special. They get to spend all day trying to teach students who are forced by law to be in the class room, and have to deal with these same angry kids bringing in guns and sniffing coke in the hallway. They undergo annual reviews, not to mention half the parents in the class crying to the principle when little johnny has too much homework or doesn't get an A. The mere allegation of wrongdoing by a student ("He touched me!") will get you fired, regardless of merit.