Jump to content

Custom Search





2019 Lincoln Aviator Introduced Here !


Welcome to Blue Oval Forums


Sign In  Log in with Facebook

Create Account
Welcome to Blue Oval Forums.  You must first register to create topics and post replies. Registration is a quick and easy process and only takes a minute.  Be apart of Blue Oval Forums by signing in or creating an account.
  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates
  • Get your own profile page and make new friends
  • Send personal messages to other members
  • Create a photo album and post images
  • Use the Shout feature and more. . .
Click here to create an account now.
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo
- - - - -

GM sells more trucks then Ford?.


  • Please log in to reply
42 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Fgts

Fgts

    Blue Oval Member

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPip
  • 1,650 posts
  • Joined 02-March 10

Posted 12 July 2018 - 10:08 AM

https://www.freep.co...hare/767901002/

The combined sales of the fullsize, midsize and commercial trucks make an intriguing debate. Also the upcoming, new Silverado MD and HD will make a more interesting Ford/Chevy fight.







Lose this advertisement by becoming a member. Click here to create a free account.


#2 OFFLINE   akirby

akirby

    fordmantpw's alter ego

  • Moderator
  • 28,948 posts
  • Joined 18-April 06
  • Region:Decline
  • Location:Canton, GA
  • Current Vehicle:2018 F150 Supercab XLT Magnetic Grey 3.5LEB

Posted 12 July 2018 - 10:17 AM

Ford - 2 trucks - F150 and Super Duty

GM - 6 trucks - Sierra, Sierra HD, Silverado, Silverado HD, Canyon, Colorado

Once Ford adds Ranger they’ll be outselling GM’s 6 trucks with only 3 trucks. That’s a huge advantage to Ford.
  • grbeck, ice-capades, pffan1990 and 3 others like this

2018 F150 Supercab XLT Sport (Magnetic) - 3.5LEB
2016 Lincoln MKX Reserve (Luxe/Cappucino)


#3 OFFLINE   rmc523

rmc523

    Blue Oval Fanatic

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,181 posts
  • Joined 07-July 07
  • Location:Ft. Lauderdale, FL
  • Current Vehicle:2009 Flex Limited w/ AWD

Posted 12 July 2018 - 10:31 AM

Ford - 2 trucks - F150 and Super Duty

GM - 6 trucks - Sierra, Sierra HD, Silverado, Silverado HD, Canyon, Colorado

Once Ford adds Ranger they’ll be outselling GM’s 6 trucks with only 3 trucks. That’s a huge advantage to Ford.

 

It'll be interesting to see how much (or whether) F-series sales drop when Ranger arrives.


Car of the Day:

 

2019 Lincoln Aviator

 

zmJvd9J.jpg


#4 OFFLINE   fuzzymoomoo

fuzzymoomoo

    Blue Oval Enthusiast

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 8,158 posts
  • Joined 18-February 14
  • Region:Decline
  • Location:Southeast Michigan
  • Current Vehicle:2008 Focus, 2018 Fusion

Posted 12 July 2018 - 10:35 AM

Ford - 2 trucks - F150 and Super Duty

GM - 6 trucks - Sierra, Sierra HD, Silverado, Silverado HD, Canyon, Colorado

Once Ford adds Ranger theyll be outselling GMs 6 trucks with only 3 trucks. Thats a huge advantage to Ford.

Youre forgetting the OHAP Medium duty.
Officially a disgruntled Ford Employee

#5 OFFLINE   akirby

akirby

    fordmantpw's alter ego

  • Moderator
  • 28,948 posts
  • Joined 18-April 06
  • Region:Decline
  • Location:Canton, GA
  • Current Vehicle:2018 F150 Supercab XLT Magnetic Grey 3.5LEB

Posted 12 July 2018 - 10:37 AM

Youre forgetting the OHAP Medium duty.

 

I didn't think the article was counting medium duty trucks.



2018 F150 Supercab XLT Sport (Magnetic) - 3.5LEB
2016 Lincoln MKX Reserve (Luxe/Cappucino)


#6 OFFLINE   Assimilator

Assimilator

    New BON Member

  • Blue Oval Member
  • Pip
  • 395 posts
  • Joined 05-March 18
  • Region:U.S. Great Lakes
  • Location:Michigan
  • Current Vehicle:2018 Lincoln MKX, 2018 F-150 SuperCrew, 2018 Ford Escape Titanium

Posted 12 July 2018 - 10:54 AM

GM just sells more of everything, it's hard to get around that. They sell more Subcompact Utilities, Compact Utility, Midsize Utilities, Full-size Utilities, Trucks, Cars, Luxury, exotics, Electrics, etc.  There are a few exceptions like Mustang, Transit, and Hybrids (although Ford has largely left that business for the time being).  The difference with GM however is that they have significantly greater product diversity as a company so it's easy to overlook just how many cars GM is actually selling in each market segment.

 

When you throw in the other BOF vehicles into the mix (Tahoe/Suburban/Escalade), GM's truck business is just huge and enormously profitable.  I don't think people appreciate how much GM (and others) have overtaken Ford in virtually every product category. GM's Full-size truck business will likely overtake F-Series by the end of next year as F-Series reaches the end of it's product cycle and both RAM and GM start to pile on with some pretty outstanding new trucks in full production.  But I actually expect GM's truck business to shrink a bit by the end of the year as they transition.  I think Ranger will help to even things out but Ford is in a zero-growth position until beyond 2020.  It's more about shuffling customers around than getting more.

 

I think the problem with Ford is just that they aren't really transitioning, they are pulling the plug on the bath water, draining their customers out, and will refill it once they are gone.  There is just no transition phase at all.  All things considered, I think they are doing a good job keeping things relatively flat overall while selling to other customers.  They are facing enormous headwinds (aging fleet, discontinued volume products, slow product rollouts)  ahead of their product updates so just keeping their business from shrinking is going to be amazing in itself.  

 

I wouldn't say Ford has a ton of new product coming since we are actually losing more products at the same time, but they have enough of the right products coming and they are going to be standouts.  I just hope Ford gets all the other pieces into place like launch scheduling which was still a problem as recently as Expedition/Navigator.  


Edited by Assimilator, 12 July 2018 - 11:14 AM.

  • rperez817 likes this

#7 OFFLINE   jcartwright99

jcartwright99

    New BON Member

  • Blue Oval Member
  • Pip
  • 499 posts
  • Joined 29-November 10
  • Region:U.S. Great Lakes
  • Location:Chicago
  • Current Vehicle:2017 Ford Fusion Titanium AWD

Posted 12 July 2018 - 11:01 AM

I read that story this morning. You can arbitrarily skew the stats to mean anything you want and there isn't much of a story here. Of course GM is going to sell more trucks they have a mid size truck and Ford doesn't. Let's talk when it's apples to apples.


2017 Ford Fusion

2017 Lincoln MKZ

2014 Ford Escape

2012 Ford Edge

2001 Lincoln LS

1990 Oldsmobile 88

1993 Honda Civic Si

 


#8 OFFLINE   fuzzymoomoo

fuzzymoomoo

    Blue Oval Enthusiast

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 8,158 posts
  • Joined 18-February 14
  • Region:Decline
  • Location:Southeast Michigan
  • Current Vehicle:2008 Focus, 2018 Fusion

Posted 12 July 2018 - 11:03 AM

 
I didn't think the article was counting medium duty trucks.

GM counts EVERYTHING so why shouldnt it count by that logic?
Officially a disgruntled Ford Employee

#9 OFFLINE   Assimilator

Assimilator

    New BON Member

  • Blue Oval Member
  • Pip
  • 395 posts
  • Joined 05-March 18
  • Region:U.S. Great Lakes
  • Location:Michigan
  • Current Vehicle:2018 Lincoln MKX, 2018 F-150 SuperCrew, 2018 Ford Escape Titanium

Posted 12 July 2018 - 11:32 AM

Why shouldn't GM count the sum of its business against the sum of Ford's business?



#10 OFFLINE   fuzzymoomoo

fuzzymoomoo

    Blue Oval Enthusiast

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 8,158 posts
  • Joined 18-February 14
  • Region:Decline
  • Location:Southeast Michigan
  • Current Vehicle:2008 Focus, 2018 Fusion

Posted 12 July 2018 - 11:39 AM

Why shouldn't GM count the sum of its business against the sum of Ford's business?

Because everyone else separates brands and models. It always bothered me that Ford lumps Super Duty sales into F-150 sales. I think everyone should do that.
Officially a disgruntled Ford Employee

#11 OFFLINE   J-150

J-150

    Newbie

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 6,011 posts
  • Joined 13-May 05
  • Location:NYC, Chicago, T.O, Montreal

Posted 12 July 2018 - 12:03 PM

I must be mistaken. I was pretty sure it was here that virtually everyone hailed Mulally as a savior when he "right sized" and said "profits over sales trophies"

Did we revert to bad habits like Ford management did after Alan retired?
  • twintornados likes this
I want a 5.0 equipped Focus

#12 OFFLINE   Assimilator

Assimilator

    New BON Member

  • Blue Oval Member
  • Pip
  • 395 posts
  • Joined 05-March 18
  • Region:U.S. Great Lakes
  • Location:Michigan
  • Current Vehicle:2018 Lincoln MKX, 2018 F-150 SuperCrew, 2018 Ford Escape Titanium

Posted 12 July 2018 - 12:16 PM

We can do a postmortem on Ford for days but much of it has to do with the disastrous leadership of Mark Fields who was more interested in pet projects (GT, Ford Performance, Lincoln) than in maintaining or evolving the system Mullally put together to keep their core prioritized.  Part of the problem was that Mullally's One Ford approach didn't quite work that well either and Fields didn't know how to manage those teams and was dragging his feet on everything.  It meant that Ford couldn't respond to regional market shifts because everything had to be developed under one system and that makes Ford extremely slow and bureaucratic.  Ford is still clever but it moves too slowly and remains very inefficient with a weak balance sheet.  It also continues to struggle with new product launches, they tend to have far more launch issues than any other company and it's a problem they haven't been able to fix but have had very little new product to launch in recent years to confront again.  Ford just got a little too unmotivated and indecisive and that's why we are in this position now (once again).  Ford may just be in a more advanced stage of product planning than most because they turned their business around earlier, but the failure to maintain their business and customer base is a pretty big warning sign that they didn't have the right leadership in place for a very long time.  But Ford is making some enormous changes now which lets us clearly know they acknowledge the scale of their problems and are building something big to fix it all.  They just need time to roll it out.  It won't fix everything at Ford but it will return them to some relevancy again. 


Edited by Assimilator, 12 July 2018 - 12:29 PM.

  • rperez817 likes this

#13 OFFLINE   fuzzymoomoo

fuzzymoomoo

    Blue Oval Enthusiast

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 8,158 posts
  • Joined 18-February 14
  • Region:Decline
  • Location:Southeast Michigan
  • Current Vehicle:2008 Focus, 2018 Fusion

Posted 12 July 2018 - 12:32 PM

Well prepare for more launch issues with the Ranger.... plant construction is weeks behind schedule
  • Assimilator likes this
Officially a disgruntled Ford Employee

#14 OFFLINE   rperez817

rperez817

    Blue Oval Member

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPip
  • 697 posts
  • Joined 03-October 16
  • Region:U.S. Southern Plains
  • Location:Fort Worth
  • Current Vehicle:'17 Jaguar XF 20d; '04 Ford Ranger

Posted 12 July 2018 - 12:54 PM

Ford may just be in a more advanced stage of product planning than most because they turned their business around earlier, but the failure to maintain their business and customer base is a pretty big warning sign that they didn't have the right leadership in place for a very long time.  But Ford is making some enormous changes now which lets us clearly know they acknowledge the scale of their problems and are building something big to fix all of their woes.  They just need time to roll it out.  

 

Well said Assimilator sir. Good summary of Ford's recent history and current situation. Alan Mulally said when he joined Ford that the company was "going out of business for 40 years". When Mulally left and Fields became CEO, Ford reverted to "going out of business" mode again.

 

Good thing for Ford that trucks especially F-Series continue to sell well, even if they are #2 overall behind General Motors. Also Ford truck owners seem to be a loyal bunch. Ford's truck business is strong enough now to allow the company time to fix their problems and come out strong and "fit".


  • Assimilator likes this

Native Texan sent to spread the message, "God Blessed Texas"  :) 


#15 OFFLINE   rperez817

rperez817

    Blue Oval Member

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPip
  • 697 posts
  • Joined 03-October 16
  • Region:U.S. Southern Plains
  • Location:Fort Worth
  • Current Vehicle:'17 Jaguar XF 20d; '04 Ford Ranger

Posted 12 July 2018 - 12:58 PM

Well prepare for more launch issues with the Ranger.... plant construction is weeks behind schedule

 

Would you recommend waiting for 2020 model year to buy a new Ford Ranger? Now I'm worried about getting a first model year 2019 Ranger if there are launch issues. I'm willing to go with either 2019 or 2020.


Native Texan sent to spread the message, "God Blessed Texas"  :) 


#16 OFFLINE   fuzzymoomoo

fuzzymoomoo

    Blue Oval Enthusiast

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 8,158 posts
  • Joined 18-February 14
  • Region:Decline
  • Location:Southeast Michigan
  • Current Vehicle:2008 Focus, 2018 Fusion

Posted 12 July 2018 - 01:10 PM

 
Would you recommend waiting for 2020 model year to buy a new Ford Ranger? Now I'm worried about getting a first model year 2019 Ranger if there are launch issues. I'm willing to go with either 2019 or 2020.

2020 wont be much better with the Bronco launching.

That said, the single reason Im deciding to wait until 2020 is purely financial, otherwise I would be getting one sometime late spring/early summer next year (MY2019)

Edited by fuzzymoomoo, 12 July 2018 - 01:11 PM.

  • rperez817 likes this
Officially a disgruntled Ford Employee

#17 OFFLINE   akirby

akirby

    fordmantpw's alter ego

  • Moderator
  • 28,948 posts
  • Joined 18-April 06
  • Region:Decline
  • Location:Canton, GA
  • Current Vehicle:2018 F150 Supercab XLT Magnetic Grey 3.5LEB

Posted 12 July 2018 - 01:14 PM

GM counts EVERYTHING so why shouldnt it count by that logic?

 

The ARTICLE being discussed that quotes SALES FIGURES for the first 6 months only counted Silvererra and Canyorado.  You can include medium duty as well if you can find the numbers.  



2018 F150 Supercab XLT Sport (Magnetic) - 3.5LEB
2016 Lincoln MKX Reserve (Luxe/Cappucino)


#18 OFFLINE   fuzzymoomoo

fuzzymoomoo

    Blue Oval Enthusiast

  • Blue Oval Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 8,158 posts
  • Joined 18-February 14
  • Region:Decline
  • Location:Southeast Michigan
  • Current Vehicle:2008 Focus, 2018 Fusion

Posted 12 July 2018 - 01:16 PM

 
The ARTICLE being discussed that quotes SALES FIGURES for the first 6 months only counted Silvererra and Canyorado.  You can include medium duty as well if you can find the numbers.  

I dont think GM has a medium duty at the moment.
Officially a disgruntled Ford Employee

#19 OFFLINE   akirby

akirby

    fordmantpw's alter ego

  • Moderator
  • 28,948 posts
  • Joined 18-April 06
  • Region:Decline
  • Location:Canton, GA
  • Current Vehicle:2018 F150 Supercab XLT Magnetic Grey 3.5LEB

Posted 12 July 2018 - 01:23 PM

Why shouldn't GM count the sum of its business against the sum of Ford's business?

 

You can but then you also have to look at the other side of the equation.    Ford sold almost as many trucks as GM with half the models and fewer plants.  Therefore MUCH lower overhead.  And Ford's ATPs are MUCH higher so Ford actually brought in more revenue from those 900K sales than GM did with their 950K sales.   And with lower overhead and higher ATPs (and half the GM incentives) Ford must have a much higher profit margin.

 

Ford is going for profit margin and revenue while GM goes for volume.   I'll take higher ATPs with lower overhead any day. 


  • tarheels23 likes this

2018 F150 Supercab XLT Sport (Magnetic) - 3.5LEB
2016 Lincoln MKX Reserve (Luxe/Cappucino)


#20 OFFLINE   akirby

akirby

    fordmantpw's alter ego

  • Moderator
  • 28,948 posts
  • Joined 18-April 06
  • Region:Decline
  • Location:Canton, GA
  • Current Vehicle:2018 F150 Supercab XLT Magnetic Grey 3.5LEB

Posted 12 July 2018 - 01:25 PM

I dont think GM has a medium duty at the moment.

 

Oh I missed your point.   Not sure there were enough of those sales to make a difference but I agree in that case they should be included.



2018 F150 Supercab XLT Sport (Magnetic) - 3.5LEB
2016 Lincoln MKX Reserve (Luxe/Cappucino)









Custom Search


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Privacy Policy Terms of Service | DMCA ·