Ford slides deeper into China rut after worst sales ever

[Assimilator]

It's never too late but Ford has never treated the Chinese market with the priority and urgency than GM and VW has and there is an obvious lack of leadership and direction going on with their Chinese operation. As the Chinese market transitions to electric there is an opportunity for Ford to grow and standout technologically in markets where that's critical, Ford has some ambitious plans for EV rollouts in China but right now there is nothing tangible. Ford still has monumental product challenges and just iterates far too slowly for a competitive industry. To put it bluntly, Ford can't keep up and it's not adapting well to emerging markets and it really remains to be seen if they can change course. Ford has a ton of broken areas to fix right now, no small task.

Edited July 8, 2018 by Assimilator

[akirby]

Pretty sure you can still get 2.0 EB in SE, Ford still lists it as an option on the '18 car..

So it is - but it does require AWD on the SE.

[akirby]

Which does not qualify him for "panther mafia" status. It's a cheap shot.

I see a big similarity saying that Ford shouldn’t cancel a car that you have no intention of buying new.

 

Maybe since you can get a SE with the 2.0EB he’ll change his mind.

[351cid]

Well then dont blame Ford if they stop making them. Its like the panther mafia whining about Ford not making panthers but never buying a new one.

 

With all the competitors in the midsized market now there simply isnt much profit in low priced sedans. Its not that youre in the minority - midsized sedan sales are still good from a volume standpoint but break even or a tiny profit margin isnt worth the investment or factory space. If people were still buying Titaniums without having to put $5K on the hood it might be a different story.

When I bought my Fusion, the 2.0L was available in the SE. The SE has plenty of bells & whistles. I don't want an S, but the mid market SE. The 2.0L is a fairly powerful engine. The 1.5L is not. How happy do you think my wife would be if her "new" car lost 60 hp & close to the same in torque? Been there, done that with a V6 T-Bird replacing a 5.0L HO. I had to listen to her complain for 3 years before we were able to get rid of that car. To this day she mentions how she did not like that 97 T-Bird.

[351cid]

Pretty sure you can still get 2.0 EB in SE, Ford still lists it as an option on the '18 car..

That may be but was told that you can not find them. This was by 3 different dealers.

[351cid]

Double post

Edited July 9, 2018 by 351cid

[351cid]

I see a big similarity saying that Ford shouldnt cancel a car that you have no intention of buying new.

 

Maybe since you can get a SE with the 2.0EB hell change his mind.

I am anything but "Panther Mafia". I have given Ford a lot of my hard earned money over the years. My Mustang is the only car I've bought used since 1987 (not including project cars). I bought it since I prefer the styling of the S-197 to the 550.

[351cid]

Kirby... I'm as much of the Panther Mafia as you are a Kool-aid drinker.

[akirby]

Kirby... I'm as much of the Panther Mafia as you are a Kool-aid drinker.

Ok that was a bit of a stretch. I just hate seeing someone say they don’t want to buy something then complain about the mfr cancelling it.

 

You can easily order a Fusion SE with the 2.0L. Takes about 8 weeks if that’s what you want.

 

And just because I’m able to comprehend rational business decisions by Ford doesn’t make me a kook-aid drinker. It just makes me informed.

[351cid]

Rational business decisions aren't just about numbers. Customer service is as important as theoretical P&L. You piss off your customer base & all the smart logistics in the world doesn't help.

 

I want to keep this civil. You don't make accusations about me & I'll do the same. Deal?

Edited July 9, 2018 by 351cid

[akirby]

Rational business decisions aren't just about numbers. Customer service is as important as theoretical P&L. You piss off your customer base & all the smart logistics in the world doesn't help.

I want to keep this civil. You don't make accusations about me & I'll do the same. Deal?

What good does customer service do if the product you’re selling can’t make money?

 

Let’s say you’re managing a mutual fund for a private group. One stock is loved by everyone but only yields 1%-2%. Another stock is growing and promises 8% returns without any more risk. Are you really going to invest in the stock everyone loves and only give them a 2% return in the name of “customer service” or are you going to invest in the one with the 8% return?

 

That’s really the question here. People who buy on price aren’t brand loyal to begin with. For every customer they stand to lose by canceling Fusion there are probably 2 wanting new hybrid, PHEV and conventional utilities and EVs.

 

They can’t afford to do everything at the same time so they’re having to prioritize. You can’t make everybody happy.

[jpd80]

On topic, agree with Assimilatior that Ford hasn't treated the Chinese market with same respect

and vigor as GM and other automakers, I hope this underscores the need for fresh, interesting

products at more regular occurrences.

Edited July 9, 2018 by jpd80

[351cid]

What good does customer service do if the product youre selling cant make money?

 

Lets say youre managing a mutual fund for a private group. One stock is loved by everyone but only yields 1%-2%. Another stock is growing and promises 8% returns without any more risk. Are you really going to invest in the stock everyone loves and only give them a 2% return in the name of customer service or are you going to invest in the one with the 8% return?

 

Thats really the question here. People who buy on price arent brand loyal to begin with. For every customer they stand to lose by canceling Fusion there are probably 2 wanting new hybrid, PHEV and conventional utilities and EVs.

 

They cant afford to do everything at the same time so theyre having to prioritize. You cant make everybody happy.

Maybe I'm a dinosaur, but we're not talking mutual funds. We're talking a product that one touches on a daily basis that is very passionate with some people. I can see reaching for the better dollars, but you don't alienate your base.

 

Again, maybe it's my circle, but almost everyone I've discussed this PR disaster with agrees that Ford is screwing the pooch. There are quite a few of their base that will not buy a Chinese made car. There is no defined definition of the so called "white space" vehicles. This clusterf*ck was a huge miscalculation on Ford's part. All they have really done is accelerate the sales slide already in place. Several folks I've spoke with about checking out a Fusion declare that Ford is no longer on their list of cars to shop since they are dropping them.

 

That's some really good customer service there.

 

But... Like VW said: good thing Americans have a short memory.

 

With this; I am done with this subject. I apologize for venting my frustration in this thread. I wish Ford the best; but I fear this neon rainbow will be their undoing.

[rperez817]

It's never too late but Ford has never treated the Chinese market with the priority and urgency than GM and VW has and there is an obvious lack of leadership and direction going on with their Chinese operation. As the Chinese market transitions to electric there is an opportunity for Ford to grow and standout technologically in markets where that's critical, Ford has some ambitious plans for EV rollouts in China but right now there is nothing tangible. Ford still has monumental product challenges and just iterates far too slowly for a competitive industry. To put it bluntly, Ford can't keep up and it's not adapting well to emerging markets and it really remains to be seen if they can change course. Ford has a ton of broken areas to fix right now, no small task.

 

Well said Assimilator sir. Ford foray into Asia in general has been marked by blunder after blunder. Hackett has his hands full just fixing what's broken with Ford in North America and Europe in keeping Ford alive. So it's quite a challenge for Ford to gain ground in China. Same with India.

 

Good point about EV. This could be Ford's salvation in China. Of course that assumes Ford can execute its EV rollouts on time and on budget.

[akirby]

I completely understand the frustration from car lovers but to say this is a disaster is premature until we see what happens with the new vehicles and other new ventures. Ford wants a 8% profit margin and keeping Fusion isn’t going to get them there at this point. There is more profit potential in more utilities and hybrid utilities and autonomous vehicles.

 

The mutual fund analogy is exactly how Ford has to make business decisions on where to invest their limited capital and resources each year. You’re only looking at it from the customer standpoint, not from Ford’s financial standpoint. It may be an emotional attachment for buyers but not for Ford. They can’t afford to be sentimental.

 

As for the sales slide, if they’re losing money on them now then selling less is actually better.

 

Sorry for taking this off topic.

[fuzzymoomoo]

Again, maybe it's my circle, but almost everyone I've discussed this PR disaster with agrees that Ford is screwing the pooch. There are quite a few of their base that will not buy a Chinese made car.

Youre acting like theyre moving all production to China when that is simply not the case. Aside from the new Focus, everything built in China is for China.

 

Also pretty much everyone agrees with you that the way theyre handling the whole cancelling cars thing was totally stupid. The PR department needs a serious overhaul and fast.

[Trailhiker]

Telling us that they are going to cancel a product two years before they do so is a bit odd. Given that we sometimes hear about new products that far in advance (Ranger - Bronco), it would have been nice if they had some concept drawings to show at that stage.

 

I think the time, money, and effort spent on China influenced what we see here, and not always for the better. When you compromise profitable markets to benefit markets that are losing money, the outcome usually doesn't work out as planned.

[akirby]

Everything they’ve done recently has been a PR disaster. Announcing things too early (Fusion demise, Ranger/Bronco), botched product introductions, importing Focus from China (temporary move at the time but that wasn’t made clear). It’s like they’re just making this stuff up on the fly with no oversight and no planning.

[rmc523]

Telling us that they are going to cancel a product two years before they do so is a bit odd. Given that we sometimes hear about new products that far in advance (Ranger - Bronco), it would have been nice if they had some concept drawings to show at that stage.

 

I think the time, money, and effort spent on China influenced what we see here, and not always for the better. When you compromise profitable markets to benefit markets that are losing money, the outcome usually doesn't work out as planned.

 

They did that in a "hey look wall street, we're making big changes!!" move without thinking of the PR consequences. Just idiotic that nobody looked at the plan and thought "wait a second - this looks bad to the consumer." Making it worse, is, the very people they were trying to impress weren't impressed...

 

Seems like they just need some plain common sense in the PR department.

Edited July 9, 2018 by rmc523

[akirby]

 

They did that without thinking

 

FTFY. That seems to describe Ford's PR department the last couple of years.

[92merc]

Wait. Did I miss something? Production of the US Focus isn't going to stay in China permanently? I'm talking the plan before Trump's tariffs were announced.

 

..., importing Focus from China (temporary move at the time but that wasn’t made clear). ...

[fuzzymoomoo]

Wait. Did I miss something? Production of the US Focus isn't going to stay in China permanently? I'm talking the plan before Trump's tariffs were announced.

 

Ford hasnt confirmed anything publicly but its been assumed this was the plan until another plant in Mexico or Europe opens up some capacity.

[akirby]

Wait. Did I miss something? Production of the US Focus isn't going to stay in China permanently? I'm talking the plan before Trump's tariffs were announced.

 

 

It was clear that the only reason Ford was going to import Focus is that they needed MAP for Ranger/Bronco and the new Mexican plant wouldn't be ready for a couple of years. Ford even said it was far more expensive to import them from China than to build them in North America. Therefore the assumption was once they had factory capacity it would move back to NA.

[mackinaw]

Everything they’ve done recently has been a PR disaster.

The Michigan Central Railroad deal was handled rather well, but that's strictly a local thing. Ford is still basking in the positive glow that generated in the Detroit area.

[Assimilator]

Ford runs on RAZER thin margins, it's very unprofitable to keep multiple factories making the same car so I don't at all believe it's more expensive for Ford to import the Focus Active from China than to make it locally, perhaps on a micro logistics level but not on a broader level. Ford is not importing from China to save on labor costs, they are importing from china because they have the capacity there to feed one big c-sedan growth market (China) and one much smaller shrinking market (US). It was always about making this car sustainable and I think people lost the plot with their China phobia. Globalizing product production makes low volume product diversity possible and unfortunately we can't seem to take advantage of that possibility. I think people fail to appreciate how volatile the car market really is and Ford has to constantly balance risk while providing their customers greater product choice without risking the viability a US-based company that still employs more US workers than any other automaker.

 

Ford has lost a tremendous amount of global marketshare, it's dropped consistently since the year 2000 where it ranked 2nd and just exited the top 5 last year. If Hyundai and FCA do merge, that would make Ford by far the smallest carmaker out of Detroit.

Edited July 9, 2018 by Assimilator